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Getting slammed by MMORG.COM community for being new
Chorsery
Member Posts: 22
So I hear about this really cool site that talks about all the MMORPG's out there and I think, "Cool, I should go there and check it out." I register and start reading about all the games and run across a topic on my favorite game. So I think, "Wow, they're talking about my favorite game! Let's see what they say."
Then I start reading the thread and find out that people are slamming newer members of MMORPG.com because they're new members, not because they don't have anything to say or add about the topic, but because they have a low post count. Something like, 'You have a low post count so what you say is crap.'
I don't get it. If I've played a game for four years, you would think that my opinion about that game would matter to people. I mean, who knows more about a game then someone who has played it for years? What does it matter if I only have a few posts on this particular site?
In fact, even if a bunch of my pals, who've played the same game as me and have never posted on this site, start talking about what a cool site it is, and that we can talk about our favorite game to a larger community, then why shouldn't we all come here and start participating? I would think new members to MMORPG.com would be welcome. I would think that the owners of this site would be thrilled to expand their member base.
Instead, our views about our game are slammed, not because we don't know anything about the game, or that we don't know anything about other games, but simply because we are new to this particular website. It seems that some long term members of this site have some sort of 'we know more then you about your game' attitude, just because they troll this site instead of actually playing the game we're talking about.
If there's been a game around for four years, then new people posting about it aren't doing it to hype it - why would they? The game has been around, there's no need to hype it. Seems to me they actually might be motivated by simply wanting to communicate that we're playing a good game and we'd like to invite you to play it to.
Ok, so I'm ready to get flamed, but what the heck.
Comments
This elitist, clubby attitude is utter bull-shit. I judge posts by two criteria:
1. The quality of the post
2. The reputation of the poster
I feel that the attitude that you decry may be a manifestation of newbie posters not possessing any reputation, so to speak. Also, there are plenty of one-post members whose raison d'etre to register is purely to flame or insult right off the bat. Sadly, this makes older members a little gun-shy of newer members. Such behaviour is frequently exhibited in MMOGs with newbies often disparaged and made to feel useless, that's if older players will even bother to stop to trade insults.
It's another example of "being ubah in one's own head".
If you come across examples, point them out. Despite the flames, insults and trolls abound on MMORPG.com, it isn't any worse than any other 'net forum - in fact, it is a great deal better because it is a fairly close community and the members are allowed to self-regulate.
Neither do I. But I have an inkling that some link post size to the size of one's member, hence the insecurity and touchiness that arises from post count
Just my $0.02 cents and chump change on the issue.
Regards,
Riotgirl
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
It's not always just because they're new, quite often it's not even usually because they're new. Read the posts that are gettign flamed. More often than not someone is coming down on that post and not the person itself. For example someone posting, starting a new thread, asking what happened to Mourning is GOING to get flamed, since obviously the person put NO effort into finding out themselves. Someone posting asking "Whats the best free mmorpg?" is bound to get flamed, since that gets posted by almost every new member to ever join and there are a couple of good threads already discussing the merits of the free mmorpgs if they had just taken the time to look.
So anyway, long story short, people generally aren't being flamed just because they're new, they're generally not even being flamed themselves, its their post thats being flamed most of the time.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
I think the only time I've made a comment on someone's low post count was actually within the past 2 weeks... It twas when someone posted something about DragonBall Z and demanded that if you didn't like DragonBall Z, you should not post in his thread.
When someone posts, the first thing I do is look at the content... I even look it sometimes before I even look at the poster's name... Most of the "higher ranking" people I've seen here don't normally slam people for having a low post count.... Most of the slamming has been because someone liked EQ2 or WoW..
But at least that seems to have subsided too...
Another thing i'd like to point out, a low post count doesn't mean there a new member.
Take me for example, my counts pretty low, but i've been here since 2002
What I want to know is what thread you're talking about. It sounds like you mean that Ashen Empires thread. Which started off with 8-9 "hype" posts that were virtually identical and all by new members. People were being flamed there for their low post count because it looked like and probably was the same person replying with different accounts several times in a row. I mean, I only browsed it because I played Dransik Beta and I saw the same phrases get repeated by a couple different posters.
The low post count was a factor in people's thinking because its not likely that someone will get a bunch of posts for bogus accounts to hype up a game.
if you are talking about the ashen empires thread, it wasn't specifically because they were new, but that most of the accounts were made on the same day and unconditionally glorified the game, making it seem an awful lot like a cheep multiple accounts advertising scheme.
Make of it what you will.
Honestly People get too hung up on post count and ranking or titles depending on the forum. I find myself amused at the measure's people will go to, in the vain attempt to make their online persona more dominant. It really boils down to the content of the post, either the person posting has something intelligent and thought out to say, or they do not. I dare say you will not find a single person who has not posted at least one topic in their life that if they honestly looked back on they would not say..wow I posted that?
General trend I see around here; Alot of one post wonders register on the forum and go through the whole, fanboi omgz my game is greater then all other games ( insert illegible l33t/AOler speak here ), and then you have the usual flames of said post. The posts could be construed as slamming the post or the member, on some of them honestly the person is definitally the target and they definitally asked for it. However on the post's irreguardless of the post count that make an intelligent point and stay as objective as possible, you will notice that Agree or disagee there is a measure of respect give to the post and the one who posted it. I will use me as a good example here, I put up a good number of post's that are controversial to say the least, as I tend to play the devils advocate, in an attempt to get people to think out of the box and quit looking at the world from a singular viewpoint. While people may and or may not agree with what I have to say, because I take the time to present my points in a reasonably intelligent and coherant fashion, Few if any flame me, instead most are persuaded to post an intelligent counter point. Now outside that type of posting, anyone who just flames someone for being new, just ignore them. Honestly most of them are the kid at school that gets beat up every day and they are simply trying to stroke their own ego, because they are not mature enough yet to deal with it in an intelligent fashion.
I just started posting here last week, and I haven't gotten randomly called out by anyone. I fact, most of the replies I've gotten have been pretty helpfull. And of course my personal subjective impression of the quality of the community here should completely convince you that you were mistaken
However, while we are on the subject, "your post count is low" is not generally a very compelling criticism of what someone has written (in this or any other forum). If that's all somone can come up with they must be a attacking pretty good post, or they must not be very bright. I haven't seen any of that here, personally.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Low post count does not equate to ubber-noob MMORPG'r nor does it invalidate the opinions expressed by the poster.
As was stated above, the content of the post should determine the validity of the post, not whether someone has posted a lot.
In my case, you are correct, the game I love is Ashen Empires. Because the game is rarely mentioned on this site, while I've registered since 9/2004, I've not felt a need or desire to posted here until now.
On the AE game boards, some people have been talking about this site, the fact that AE had been rated fairly nicely in comparison to other games, and that how nice it was to have it recognized on a site like this. So I decided that I'd re-visit the site and check out to see what people were posting.
Immediately, by the comments made on that thread, it was apparent that if I said anything good about the game, people would think that the posts were invalid cause I had low post counts, and that i was trying to 'hype' the game.
I think that if someone had played a game for three years, their comments would be well recieved, and certainly carry some validity as the to pros-cons of the game. Also, if a game has been around for four years and still had a fan base that was excited about it, I really don't think that there is any need to hype anything - like the current fans would care if it was hyped or not.
Rather, it is much more likely that the current long term players are truley excited about the game, and just want to share that excitement with a wider community, and attempt to explain why they still liked the game.
So, in brief, not a very 'welcoming' attitude for me on this board, on my first impression. Perhaps it was a rush to judgement. BTW, I'm not talking about my posts, but the posts of other AE fans - so I didn't take it personal, i was just a bit taken-a-back by the flames.
That being said, I'm glad to see on this thread that there are some more lvl headed even handed posters then what I saw on the AE thread.
I never even really look at how many post people got it don't really matter to me.
I didn't want to post in the AE thread because the topic already got out of hand and in the hands of a few flamers vs. fighting fans.
First off, nobody was flamed for being new, as I noticed in this community things get "balanced". Something that gives too much of a pro view and no part of a down view which is then repeated will get flamed as the contrary is the same. In this case they looked at who posted, I must say, so did I, too much fantalk is not good. I refrained from posting and instead of trying the game it turned me away from it. If the first post had given time for a con poster or more balanced poster like yourself to post, the story could have gone in a completely different direction with a constructive discussion.
The comments of someone playing the game for a couple of years are always well received, don't worry about that. All is in how you voice your opinion, someone with a little bit of maturity knows what the flaws of the game are as well. By not posting your personal cons you are talking like an advertisement (which aren't that effective on this community). That is to say people took a look at the contents of the first posts. And maybe thanks to you I'll go look.
As a last thing, everyone could have tried to get in touch with the community as I did when I started posting a few weeks ago. Reply on a general topic, there's a few interesting out there or if you really wanted to talk about AE you could have posted in one or all of those "I'm looking for a new MMO to play".
-
Coming here just to pump up the numbers on a game is, and always has been, frowned upon. That is why they changed the rules to prevent people from just making an account and being able to give their favorite game tens and all the other games ones. But still, from time to time, someone will post on some game board about this site and urge people to come here and pump up the rating or the hype on their game. And when a post pops up that indicates that may very well be what is happening, it will most likely be flamed. People want the ratings to be a somewhat objective rating of the game by the site readers, not something that is artifically inflated by board members from that game.
In other words, they aren't being flamed because they are new, they are getting flamed because they are jacking up the rating on their game to an artificial high and they happen to be new.
This elitist, clubby attitude is utter bull-shit. I judge posts by two criteria:
1. The quality of the post
2. The reputation of the poster
I feel that the attitude that you decry may be a manifestation of newbie posters not possessing any reputation, so to speak. Also, there are plenty of one-post members whose raison d'etre to register is purely to flame or insult right off the bat. Sadly, this makes older members a little gun-shy of newer members. Such behaviour is frequently exhibited in MMOGs with newbies often disparaged and made to feel useless, that's if older players will even bother to stop to trade insults.
It's another example of "being ubah in one's own head".
If you come across examples, point them out. Despite the flames, insults and trolls abound on MMORPG.com, it isn't any worse than any other 'net forum - in fact, it is a great deal better because it is a fairly close community and the members are allowed to self-regulate.
Neither do I. But I have an inkling that some link post size to the size of one's member, hence the insecurity and touchiness that arises from post count
Just my $0.02 cents and chump change on the issue.
Regards,
Riotgirl
i judge u as a sexually confused individual.
http://wootedgepage.proboards18.com/index.cgi
Well said and absolutely correct.
The majority of "slams" that are directed at people who are new to this site tend to be for being utterly rude or obnoxious. In some cases it is because people post a question that is answered in a FAQ or on a post that is still visible on a 20-count page. In other words: show us some common courtesy, and you shall be shown the same.
Beyond that, there is always going to be the presence of the fringe...and in a public forum that mandates you will have some mean-spirited people who love to pounce on anyone, especially those who show weaknesses. Them's just the facts o' life on the internet, I'm afraid.
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I just wanted to take a moment to say that I felt very similar as far as the reception that Chorsery spoke of. I am however somewhat encouraged to see some clear headed responses form a more mature sub-set of this community on this thread at least. As Chorsery already mentioned though, this site was mentioned on the Ashen Empires forums and given that it has a high hourly readership it is not such a difficult connection to make as far as why several players from the AE forums came over and posted the same day over here. I was one of the original posters on that thread and I gave my honest opinion as I know the other players from there did as well. I know every one of them and could prove every one of us is a separate individual which is why I took some offense at accusations made by some posters here that it was one person. (You could always get a mod to verify IP/MAC addresses and it would prove me correct here).
I DO however understand how it may have looked and I can also see how cases of this could happen. But, as Chorsery also pointed out Ashen Empires is not a new game, it is 4+ years old now so hype for hypes sake wasnt a factor in our case. Therefore we come back to the point that some of us felt unjustly attacked even after it was explained how a group of us came to be here on the same day posting in the same thread. For the record, I havent even given a rating yet for Ashen Empires and I know other players who have not either. (Waiting for the major update which has some major feature enhancements).
Well said and absolutely correct.
The majority of "slams" that are directed at people who are new to this site tend to be for being utterly rude or obnoxious. In some cases it is because people post a question that is answered in a FAQ or on a post that is still visible on a 20-count page. In other words: show us some common courtesy, and you shall be shown the same.
Beyond that, there is always going to be the presence of the fringe...and in a public forum that mandates you will have some mean-spirited people who love to pounce on anyone, especially those who show weaknesses. Them's just the facts o' life on the internet, I'm afraid.
I too also agree. I have somthing to add too:
Chorsery, that is actualy not true. I would really like to see what you was reading to come up with this, but that isn't true one bit. Actually, many new members have/has a lack of qualty in making topics and not only that, but sometimes you can tell if they actually looked over the Discussion Board. Let me give you some common examples:
- New members making bad polls (espically to open questions)
- New members not asking questions (in search of infomation. It depends)
- New members asking about free MMORPG's in the right thread (the Gineral Discussion, but there is a Sticky at the very top with a list of free MMORPG's. You can tell they didn't even scanned the thread.
- New members comming here to gain somthing for example: gaining points to a web browser game by posting a link and asking people to join up, advertizing they're website (usually message boards),
- Comparing two completely different games
-The annoying ones
Many new members arn't flamed becuase of this, but a little comment is said, but no flaming. To tell you the truth, it's actually the new members who flame to make the old members flame back.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
as already said, low posts had nothing to do with the flames those people received.
It was because, here, seeing a bunch of people that nobody saw before starts to praise, unconditionaly, with sentences that should be on the game box or in magazine advertisement sounds suspicious.
You see? the normal way of things, at least in general discussion but also in part in game specific forums, is that somebody post a positive or negative comments on a game and others follows up on that. Some agree with short sentences or add comments of their own and some disagree, maybe vehemently. Never seen 8-9 guys all posting the same thing on the same game. i understand why it looked fishy (and we know there is all that sort of things going on here at times).
Of course the opinions of those people are welcome and i am sure there won't be future problems.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Let's just simplify this matter. I can do it with a simple link. To all you new members who hope to avoid being flamed, I want you all to visit this site and watch the video. It can be found HERE
Watch, enjoy, but most of all... LEARN!
I generally don't post here very much unless I get interested in a specific thread. The attitude of most of the posters is immature at best "I know more than you because" type stuff REALLY turns me off. Especially when they start spouting that they've played more MMO's than "anyone".
Anyhow, it's a great site for info, but don't bother posting unless something in particular catches your eye.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Perhaps that should be my approach too...
I guess I was hoping that the site would provide some meaningful information about games and provide an opportunity to even-handedly discuss a game I like. My initial impression however is marred by the reaction of some rather vocal regular members.
This apparent minority (I hope its a minority) from the MMORPG community were quick to jump to judgement, assume the worst, and essentially dismiss comments from an active community of players from AE.
bah, no matter. I'd rather play an excellent game that isn't run by a multimillion dollar company that doesnt catch you with marketing hype and eye candy. I'll continue to play AE, be satisfied with its elegance and pleasantly integrated complex skill tree.
Peace
Out
Stop acting like stupid, you all know why you are getting flamed.
You and other fanbois from AE boards came here and started spam about your game with accounts created for only that purpose. There's nothing wrong with mmorpg.com community, in fact the reaction about your trolling was apropriate. And don't try talking about your wonderful AE community, because it's really bad if they are willing to spam other boards and hijack game rating.
It's funny how the people who is wrong and don't admit it always leave. Look man, let me ask you a few questions. Did you make a topic disscusing a game you like? If you did, I must have missed it. Another thing, don't blame a whole community form your assumptions, people's (seems like your judging all this from maybe 5 members) comments, or what you seen from scanning the boards. MMORPG has, maybe one of the best online communities. I don't see how could you obtain somthing bad about a community from 11 post, that's redicilious.
It took me almost 7 months (took place about 4 years ago before I found MMORPG.com) to come up with a conclusion that the GameShark Community (on their boards) are some of the most dumbest, jelious, bad judgement, rude, fussy and iggnorant community I've ever seen. Mod's would ban you for no reason, VIP would bash you and still be vip, they beleive everything is impossible, and one post with a bad remark would lead to countless zombies just following the leader. 1/3 of their whole community has some good people (including me at the time) who had the same opinions as well.
I'm telling you man, I just don't understand were you come up with this. I would love to see some links of were your getting this, becuase we don't bash on new members. It's just that new members would be the ones who are doing wrong from right.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
Who wants to bet that this guy is from mourning? He has already judge the community because we took the mourning board off. He rather play a shitty game that isnt run by a mulitmiliion dollar company that has nether hype nor eye candy then a good game run by a mutimillion dollars company- sounds like mourning to me.
No Mr. Bitey, I know Chor, in game at least. He plays AE, like alot of us do that have posted on these various threads. I dunno if he played the other game too or not. I thank those of you that gave constructive criticism about how some of us AE posters, have posted on this board. Point taken I say, and I have already found instructive info on this board about other games I am very interested in. Of course I'll continue to play AE too, just cause it is really fun to me.
It truly is a game where people that play, tend to love. Perhaps these last couple of days, people on this board have learned a little about AE, and people active in AE have learned how to be active on these boards in a more constructive way to both our game, and this community. I plan to stick around both if that is ok.
Thanks again,