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Are Online Communities in MMORPG's a thing of the past?

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  • DarthViktorDarthViktor Member Posts: 37

    We have communities today ? I can solo just about everything in any mmo just about without even talking/grouping with another person. The social aspect and grouping is mmos are pretty much dead at the moment.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,990

    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

    Originally posted by Amathe

    Originally posted by Ariste

    As far as I can recall, EQ1 wasn't this way. If you were a douchebag or you sucked, you'd get kicked out of groups, and you needed groups. As a result, as you leveled up there tended to be less and less annoying/bad players for the simple reason that they weren't able to make it that far.

    Exactly. In the past, acting like a jerk hurt your reputation and held you back. Now, acting like a jerk is such a common practice that you can't keep up with all the jerks sufficient to ostracize them.

    That's not fair, bad behaviour should never be rewarded, that is just so wrong.

     That is the point. We're saying that it should not be, but now it is.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by Ariste


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by uquipu

    1. Leave all global chats

    .

    2. Join a good guild

    .

    3. Set a good example

    .

    4. Help out people who need help

    This^

     

     

    Also do you think everybody in the real world are Nice?  History much? Hitler ?

    Lol... did you just commpare 'everybody in the real world' to Hitler?

    True server-wide community doesn't have to be lost forever. There just have to be consequences for being an asshole, and these consequences will only exist if grouping is strongly encouraged over solo play.

    That wasnt what I was saying. You are putting words in my mouth.

    What I was saying, is that its unrealistic to go into a large community and expect everything to be buddy buddy.

     

    The WORLD is the largest community we know of. yet clearly we can see from history, even then you have people that just dont get along.

    And why not? Pre WoW almost every game was like that. Sure, there were asshats but the community usually had ways to deal with them. The vast majority of those pre-WoW communities were very friendly and helpful. Did you even play a single MMO pre-WoW?

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • AristeAriste Member Posts: 39

    Originally posted by DarthViktor

    We have communities today ? I can solo just about everything in any mmo just about without even talking/grouping with another person. The social aspect and grouping is mmos are pretty much dead at the moment.

    Yeah, that's pretty much the way it is right now. But it doesn't have to be. It's just that the mechanics of the current breed of MMO fail to encourage any kind of community. It's not an inherent quality of the genre, but rather a design choice.

  • OddbotOddbot Member Posts: 31

    The best community in recent games in my experiences is LOTRO hands down. I can't count the number of random helpful and mature players I've encountered in the game. Compared to WoW it's like night and day.  Some people are worried that the switch to a hybrid FTP / Sub pricing model will ruin the community, but I think the community will persevere.

  • CodenakCodenak Member UncommonPosts: 418

    If there is no community in an MMORPG whats to keep us there? Paying subs for solo play? Not my idea of fun.

    Civility is a bonus but caring for the game is a must to my mind, for a good community.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,083


    Players are more nomadic now than they were in the past, they play a MMO like a solo game, couple of months then move on. The average age of the player base has gone down and the games are more designed for soloing not interacting as a community. It is hard to weather a storm like that but a few servers like Laurelin in Lotro and Hyrkania in AOC have managed to maintain a sense of community.


     25 Agrees

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  • laokokolaokoko Member UncommonPosts: 2,004

    When I was playing warhammer online.  I joined a guild which have an active communities.  You can pretty much join the vent channel and there's people chatting 24/7.

    Whatever we do weather it's dungeons or rvr we do it through vent channel.  And everyone knows each other, what they do, how many kids they have, hearing them chating about daily stuff etc etc.

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Member UncommonPosts: 1,920

    It's not fair to blame the solocentric playstyle for lousy communities, or at least not entirely.  Years ago, I was primarily a soloer, but I still took time to chat with other players, help them, team up from time to time, and join a guild (large, small, new or old didn't matter, as long as they were friendly and active).

     

    Now I've had so many bad experiences I assume that anyone trying to talk to me in game is trying to sell me in game currency for real money, trying to get me to fully gear them up or to power level them for days (after which they will cheerfully put me on ignore), wants to hit on me and talk about their bizarre fetishes, or wants to scam me out of my account info.

     

    And as someone already pointed out, when horrible people become the majority in a gaming community, you can't isolate and punish them for it, because they outnumber you!

     

     

     

     

     

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • uquipuuquipu Member Posts: 1,516


    Originally posted by Brenelael

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by Ariste


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by uquipu

    1. Leave all global chats
    .
    2. Join a good guild
    .
    3. Set a good example
    .
    4. Help out people who need help
    This^
     
     
    Also do you think everybody in the real world are Nice?  History much? Hitler ?


    Lol... did you just commpare 'everybody in the real world' to Hitler?
    True server-wide community doesn't have to be lost forever. There just have to be consequences for being an asshole, and these consequences will only exist if grouping is strongly encouraged over solo play.


    That wasnt what I was saying. You are putting words in my mouth.
    What I was saying, is that its unrealistic to go into a large community and expect everything to be buddy buddy.
     
    The WORLD is the largest community we know of. yet clearly we can see from history, even then you have people that just dont get along.


    And why not? Pre WoW almost every game was like that. Sure, there were asshats but the community usually had ways to deal with them. The vast majority of those pre-WoW communities were very friendly and helpful. Did you even play a single MMO pre-WoW?
     
    Bren


    .
    It's not MMOs.
    .
    The Internet has changed in the last ten years.
    .
    In the early days of the Internet, the Internet was populated by early adopter types, eg nerds. Today the Internet is populated by everyone and their grandmothers, literally. Eight year olds have broad band connections in their bedrooms.
    .
    Gaming communities are much more diverse than they were back when you played your dead or dying game.

    Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  • KorhindiKorhindi Member CommonPosts: 395

    As one who works in retail, I can assure you the problem is not exclusive to MMO's.

     

    The sad reallity is that there are a lot of jerks out there.  Some of them play online games.

     

    It is not a group vs. solo issue, nor is it specific to any genre or particular game.  The sad fact is, over the past ten years the tendency of rude behaviour has been more and more increasingly common, be it in stores, public buildings, forums or games.

     

    Add in the anonymous nature of the Net, and well, there you have it.  The only solution is to play with good friends, be cool and befriend those who are cool to you and ignore the rest... just like in the real world.  You must create your own community.

  • TreekodarTreekodar Member Posts: 524

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by uquipu

    1. Leave all global chats

    .

    2. Join a good guild

    .

    3. Set a good example

    .

    4. Help out people who need help

    This^

     

     

    Also do you think everybody in the real world are Nice?  History much? Hitler ?

    Hitler was nice and a good leader, stating otherwise is just stupid. His methods were extreme, but since history is written by the winners Hitler was made out to be the bad guy.

     

    I remember the infamous Barrens Chat. While it often only consisted of minors it was still a lot of fun for me. If you looked at what was said with a smile it would make it all a lot more fun, likewise if you observed with anger and rage it obviously wouldn't seem funny at all.

    I've also asked my fair share of questions and they were all answered in a nice tone. Just because you experience that some guys are morons doesn't mean that the whole community is.

    Eleanor Rigby.

  • KorhindiKorhindi Member CommonPosts: 395

    Originally posted by Treekodar

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by uquipu

    1. Leave all global chats

    .

    2. Join a good guild

    .

    3. Set a good example

    .

    4. Help out people who need help

    This^

     

     

    Also do you think everybody in the real world are Nice?  History much? Hitler ?

    Hitler was nice and a good leader, stating otherwise is just stupid. His methods were extreme, but since history is written by the winners Hitler was made out to be the bad guy.

     

    I remember the infamous Barrens Chat. While it often only consisted of minors it was still a lot of fun for me. If you looked at what was said with a smile it would make it all a lot more fun, likewise if you observed with anger and rage it obviously wouldn't seem funny at all.

    I've also asked my fair share of questions and they were all answered in a nice tone. Just because you experience that some guys are morons doesn't mean that the whole community is.

    I cannot tell if you are joking or trolling, so I will bight for the sake of conversation:

     

    Hitler was an effective leader at the start, but once the pressure poured on, he folded like a wet paper napkin.  Hitler, however, was never known as being "nice."  I will not get into the Reichschtag or the Final Solution, but labeling Hitler as being "Nice" is a tad bit inaccurate.

     

    He had the modern PVP griefer mentality of gank others before they gank you.  His favorite tactic, the Blitzkrieg, was essentially zerging under powered opposition and then teabagging them.  Once he hit real opposition, such as Russia, Britain, and later, the US, well, like a classic griefer, he had nothing.

     

    You are very correct, however, that not everyone out there is a jerk.   The old saying about "one bad apple" is very true since just one jerk can ruin the experience for a lot of people.  The problem these days is that jerks seem to be coming in bushels as opposed to one at a time.  That's why it is important to be cool to others and simply try your best to wave off those who annoy you.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821

    Originally posted by uquipu

    .

    It's not MMOs.

    .

    The Internet has changed in the last ten years.

    .

    In the early days of the Internet, the Internet was populated by early adopter types, eg nerds. Today the Internet is populated by everyone and their grandmothers, literally. Eight year olds have broad band connections in their bedrooms.

    .

    Gaming communities are much more diverse than they were back when you played your dead or dying game.

     

    What your saying is true to a point but were not talking 1994-95 here. We are talking about 2000-2004. During that period MMOs were pretty much populated by everyone and their aunts and uncles the same as today. I played EQ with everyone from 8 year olds to 40 year old housewives to businessmen to 80 year old grandmothers... you know just like you do today. The internet hasen't changed all that much since 1999-2000. Besides some of the very first HTML based internet users back in 1994-95 were from AOL... not from college computer labs. The scope of the internet has changed but the diversity has not in the last 10 years. The only thing that hasn't remained constant since those times is the focus of MMOs in general. They have switched from being very social group dependant activities to being totally solo-centric activities with other gamers. If you don't hard code into your game some form of player interdependancies people won't be social because they have no reason to be. It really is that simple.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • TreekodarTreekodar Member Posts: 524

    Originally posted by Korhindi

    Originally posted by Treekodar


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by uquipu

    1. Leave all global chats

    .

    2. Join a good guild

    .

    3. Set a good example

    .

    4. Help out people who need help

    This^

     

     

    Also do you think everybody in the real world are Nice?  History much? Hitler ?

    Hitler was nice and a good leader, stating otherwise is just stupid. His methods were extreme, but since history is written by the winners Hitler was made out to be the bad guy.

     

    I remember the infamous Barrens Chat. While it often only consisted of minors it was still a lot of fun for me. If you looked at what was said with a smile it would make it all a lot more fun, likewise if you observed with anger and rage it obviously wouldn't seem funny at all.

    I've also asked my fair share of questions and they were all answered in a nice tone. Just because you experience that some guys are morons doesn't mean that the whole community is.

    I cannot tell if you are joking or trolling, so I will bight for the sake of conversation:

     

    Hitler was an effective leader at the start, but once the pressure poured on, he folded like a wet paper napkin.  Hitler, however, was never known as being "nice."  I will not get into the Reichschtag or the Final Solution, but labeling Hitler as being "Nice" is a tad bit inaccurate.

     

    He had the modern PVP griefer mentality of gank others before they gank you.  His favorite tactic, the Blitzkrieg, was essentially zerging under powered opposition and then teabagging them.  Once he hit real opposition, such as Russia, Britain, and later, the US, well, like a classic griefer, he had nothing.

     

    You are very correct, however, that not everyone out there is a jerk.   The old saying about "one bad apple" is very true since just one jerk can ruin the experience for a lot of people.  The problem these days is that jerks seem to be coming in bushels as opposed to one at a time.  That's why it is important to be cool to others and simply try your best to wave off those who annoy you.

    Can't say much else other than I fully agree with you.

    Eleanor Rigby.

  • RudyRaccoonRudyRaccoon Member UncommonPosts: 475

    Bloody hell, looking at the poll it's all pretty close between Yes and No with No just bearly winning. So does that mean MMORPG's are good to go and like some have said that you have to find or make communities yourself? I don't know, I tried making a guild myself once in WoW and nobody wanted to join. =/

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

    This appears to be a recurring thing I've noticed when playing any game online, I've played World of Warcraft and I've come to realise that people in this game are really rude, the things they say is like something from 4Chan (examples, Chuck Norris and Your Mom jokes, as well as the dreaded Barriens Chat), the game is more treated like an e-sport and there's the stupid Gearscore thing, I think WoW is a joke, it's even more bad when there's no-one to make friends with.

    Now when I've played every other MMO game, the sad news is there is nobody to play with, it's like WoW is the only MMORPG that really gets played nowhere days and all the others are considered not worth the time playing. I really find it sad that everyone in the world keeps praising WoW as they fail to realise that even though it plays like gold but really it's a turd is disguise.

    Recently I've not been playing any MMO of such, been on Left 4 Dead 2 and today I've realised how terrible the game is since there really is no community as I was kicked out of my own set up game and I did nothing wrong, all it is, is just a lobby game and that's what WoW has become as well.

    Is it true that every MMORPG does suck and the old days of Online Communities that we saw in EQ1 are now long gone?

    Play games that aren't lobby games, then. People are always going on about how EVE is only for griefers and so on, yet it keeps winning community awards because your reputation does matter and the effects of your actions are persistent, because so much of the game is structured around group play. Not everyone likes the physical gameplay style of EVE, but I'm sure there must be other MMOs with player interaction like this.

    (They will be the ones that people complain that there is too much freedom)

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Communities still exist. LOTRO and EQ2 still have pretty nice people even though LOTRO might destroy that soon.

    But it is true that communities are worse now than before. I blame instancing.

    When you don't really have to care about meeting people and more or less can solo the whole game there is really no need to interact with anyone. And while it is fine that some games focus on soloplayers others shouldn't.

    Wows multiserver PUGs doesn't really help either, because that means the worst ninjas and AFKers always can get a group, on a single server that kind of behavior will make it impossible for those people to find a group that isn't like minded.

    My hope is that Guildwars 2s dynamic world will turn things again, with less instances and actual rewards for helping out.

    If on the other hand TOR win that duel I think things will continue like now for the next 5 years.

     

    We can all discuss if forced social grouping is good and fun, but we need at least to see and sometimes interact with other players. You should meet others as you go at least, and people should buy their stuff from other players stores, not from an auction house or broker where you don't even remember who made it.

  • DerWotanDerWotan Member Posts: 1,012

    Well maybe not in MMORPGs but definately in MMO's. Thanks to Blizzard and its non MMORPG behavior crowd flooding the market.

    If you have to turn off the general chat, trade chat and some others its a sign that the community is utter crap.

    We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!

    "Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
    "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."

  • MoretrinketsMoretrinkets Member Posts: 730

    join a guild of good guys/girls, disable general or another channel it bothers you, and have fun!

  • NiksenNiksen Member Posts: 66

    Originally posted by Brenelael

    As long as games continue to migrate towards totally soloable content yes the communities that we used to know and love are a thing of the past. Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with solo content within a MMO but when you design your game so you can solo to max level without having any reason to speak to another player once, you've destroyed any chance of any community growth. Other players become more of a nuisance than a boon as grouping usually just slows down your leveling progress. If you can go to an Auction House and buy anything you want why ask a crafter to make you something? If you can fast travel anywhere why take the time to talk to people and get to know them along the way?

    The only communities within MMOs these days are within guilds. These are very closed communities and the open comunities that games like EQ, SWG, DAOC, UO and many other games of yesterday fostered are gone forever never to return. I think SWG pre NGE was the last game that a total stranger just stop to chat with me and we ended up becoming pretty good in-game friends. That kinda thing used to happen on a daily basis in older games but now it's very rare. In EQ I would meet new people almost every time I logged in. Now people are so busy, wrapped up in doing their own thing that when you try to talk to them they act like, "Why the hell are you bothing me?". It's pretty sad actually because most players that started with WoW have no idea how much fun communities like those used to be.

     

    Bren

     I Agree, back when people were playing SWG, everyone was depending on everyone so you gained from being polite and help out.

    Dam i miss that old community, I played many games since and even went back to swg later but its all gone.

  • candycoatedcandycoated Member Posts: 86

    Regarding this issue, I think it depends on what game you are playing and it depends on the ethnicity and culture of the players. For example, there's a certain outdated MMO that I'm still playing right now and I think the reason why the game is still alive is because of its active online community.

  • twstdstrangetwstdstrange Member Posts: 474

    There's always going to be that sort of community sect, but from my experience there's about 2-3% of the population that is rather respectable, or at least easy to become friends with. Game mechanics have a lot to do with this sort of thing, in the context of WoW, the random dungeon finder means people can just quickly group up and knock shit down and leave the group without ever saying two words to each other. I think this, in turn, causes most people to become, at the very least, a little naive at the prospect of making actual buddies online. It's shooting itself in the foot. Repeatedly.

  • The_GrumpThe_Grump Member Posts: 331

    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

    This appears to be a recurring thing I've noticed when playing any game online, I've played World of Warcraft and I've come to realise that people in this game are really rude, the things they say is like something from 4Chan (examples, Chuck Norris and Your Mom jokes, as well as the dreaded Barriens Chat), the game is more treated like an e-sport and there's the stupid Gearscore thing, I think WoW is a joke, it's even more bad when there's no-one to make friends with.

    Now when I've played every other MMO game, the sad news is there is nobody to play with, it's like WoW is the only MMORPG that really gets played nowhere days and all the others are considered not worth the time playing. I really find it sad that everyone in the world keeps praising WoW as they fail to realise that even though it plays like gold but really it's a turd is disguise.

    Recently I've not been playing any MMO of such, been on Left 4 Dead 2 and today I've realised how terrible the game is since there really is no community as I was kicked out of my own set up game and I did nothing wrong, all it is, is just a lobby game and that's what WoW has become as well.

    Is it true that every MMORPG does suck and the old days of Online Communities that we saw in EQ1 are now long gone?

    When you consider that a community is made up of people with appreciably common beliefs it is very clear that MMORPGs are sorely lacking the the community department. The closest thing I've seen to a community is in Final Fantasy XI, where people are polite but coldly polite.

    There is not one thing that has destroyed communities, certainly not the presence of a wealth of titles and certainly not World of Warcraft. No, not even being able to appreciably solo within MMORPGs has caused this problem. Simply put, the problem comes down to people and these people are largely of the Gen-X generation and the one just after it. I don't think its a gross overgeneralisation to say that, as a whole, these generations are morally impoverished and were put in that position by the generation that pseudo-parented them and was supposed to install some sort of moral compass. Granted, its a bit more complicated than that but the general thrust is sensible.

    Another problem is a rise in Post-Modern sensibilities where meta-narratives are condemned (e.g. that's only your opinion vs. that is a likely fact) and everyone is so wrapped up in their own personal bubble that they couldn't form a meaningful relationship if they wanted to. This bubble has nothing to do with the presence and expansion of the internet and everything to do with the way people choose to interact with each other; the internet is, after all, a catalyst for real interaction of a certain type with other real people.

    I could go on but it would only get me riled up, those who can see some sense in this will understand and those who can't simply won't and they will be impossible to convince otherwise. Simply put, the communities in MMORPGs have all but disappeared because of the people that are playing, the culture they largely were formed from and inform and a hyper-solipsistic psychology that leaves little room for genuine community. We have to change as people, those of us that aren't really doing our best to make community, if we ever want to see it come back again. If people would only do their small part we'd see a world of change.

    (1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
    (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821

    Originally posted by The_Grump

    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

    This appears to be a recurring thing I've noticed when playing any game online, I've played World of Warcraft and I've come to realise that people in this game are really rude, the things they say is like something from 4Chan (examples, Chuck Norris and Your Mom jokes, as well as the dreaded Barriens Chat), the game is more treated like an e-sport and there's the stupid Gearscore thing, I think WoW is a joke, it's even more bad when there's no-one to make friends with.

    Now when I've played every other MMO game, the sad news is there is nobody to play with, it's like WoW is the only MMORPG that really gets played nowhere days and all the others are considered not worth the time playing. I really find it sad that everyone in the world keeps praising WoW as they fail to realise that even though it plays like gold but really it's a turd is disguise.

    Recently I've not been playing any MMO of such, been on Left 4 Dead 2 and today I've realised how terrible the game is since there really is no community as I was kicked out of my own set up game and I did nothing wrong, all it is, is just a lobby game and that's what WoW has become as well.

    Is it true that every MMORPG does suck and the old days of Online Communities that we saw in EQ1 are now long gone?

    When you consider that a community is made up of people with appreciably common beliefs it is very clear that MMORPGs are sorely lacking the the community department. The closest thing I've seen to a community is in Final Fantasy XI, where people are polite but coldly polite.

    There is not one thing that has destroyed communities, certainly not the presence of a wealth of titles and certainly not World of Warcraft. No, not even being able to appreciably solo within MMORPGs has caused this problem. Simply put, the problem comes down to people and these people are largely of the Gen-X generation and the one just after it. I don't think its a gross overgeneralisation to say that, as a whole, these generations are morally impoverished and were put in that position by the generation that pseudo-parented them and was supposed to install some sort of moral compass. Granted, its a bit more complicated than that but the general thrust is sensible.

    Another problem is a rise in Post-Modern sensibilities where meta-narratives are condemned (e.g. that's only your opinion vs. that is a likely fact) and everyone is so wrapped up in their own personal bubble that they couldn't form a meaningful relationship if they wanted to. This bubble has nothing to do with the presence and expansion of the internet and everything to do with the way people choose to interact with each other; the internet is, after all, a catalyst for real interaction of a certain type with other real people.

    I could go on but it would only get me riled up, those who can see some sense in this will understand and those who can't simply won't and they will be impossible to convince otherwise. Simply put, the communities in MMORPGs have all but disappeared because of the people that are playing, the culture they largely were formed from and inform and a hyper-solipsistic psychology that leaves little room for genuine community. We have to change as people, those of us that aren't really doing our best to make community, if we ever want to see it come back again. If people would only do their small part we'd see a world of change.

    This assumes a lot. For this to be true everyone who uses the internet would have to have been brought up in the same culture which is clearly false. Also the communities we are talking about were only 5-10 years ago not 25 which is a generation gap. No, the only thing that has clearly changed in the last 5-6 years is the MMOs themselves. They have very obviously progressed from a very social group focused activity to very solo oriented.

    In MMOs of the past you needed other players for groups, crafting items, travel directions, quest guides, aquiring rare items and almost every other aspect of MMO gameplay. Now all of that can be acomplished easily without ever having to interact with another player once. We are not just talking about forced grouping here either. Almost every aspect of MMO gameplay in games like UO, EQ pre Luclin/PoP, SWG pre CU/NGE, DAOC, AO and a host of other games required a certain amount of player interaction to acomplish.

    Gamers haven't changed all that much over the last 10 years... the MMOs themselves have changed drastically however.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

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