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Lord of the Rings Online: Free to Play Interview
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Poster was implying that he was getting messages from Turbine while playing. Not while logging in, not while dead in game, not while loading the area. So yeah, I stand by my original assertion. Bullshit.
So you have a link to the statements in question?
Sure, but pay-to-not-grind seems to be more like it though. LOTRO is all about the questing & storyline. Take away any of that & make people pay for decent quests piecemeal & the game devolves into a f2p grindfest race to top level. Someone pls tell me it's not so. :-/
I've been back & forth as an (ir)regular sub since open beta (probably clocked 2+ years so far) over 3 accounts (one of which my mate took over after trying it through me - shhhhhh!
- he now runs 2 accounts of his own for the Mrs & him & has been paying monthly or 3-mthly for 1-2 years continually). This development could give a more casual player like myself the luxury of playing when I can without feeling like I'm blowing $15 just to play for an hour or two in a particularly busy month. If you do it right Turbine. Just don't forget who got you here thus far...
I also suggest Turbine take a close look at AO to see how you foster a great community spirit while maintaining a long-term f2p model.
They say that right before you die, your life flashes before your eyes. That's true, even for a blind man. ^DareDevil^
And you believed him didn't you? I mean it's not like these developers have a habit of lying through their teeth on subjects such as these right? Only the most naive person would believe that in time this won't turn into some gross pay to win scenario as they get more and more cash coming through.
They are going cash shop because they want to increase revenue this means that sure at launch it'll be tame so that they can pacify the current playerbase and suck in as many F2P tight wads as possible. Then once they have enough it'll start getting vulgar with XP potions and buffs. New content will go into the cash shop and those guys that paid for a life time sub to a now F2P game with a cash shop will realise that they've been stiffed by Turbine.
What else was that guy gonna say to you and your softball journalists anyway? He knew you weren't going to ask any uncomfortable questions and just spouted what he wants us to believe, "don't worry it's ok your game is a F2P micro transaction piece of trash now but the cash shop will never give anyone an unfair advantage!", what a load of bologne!
This only proves the point to anyone still in doubt that life time subscriptions are for retards, most developers are liars and most game studios are run by suits and bean counters not by gamers.
FACT!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Well said! Virtue / Deeds directly affect your character's power! Do we need to say more??
People need to wake up, open their eyes and don't be so naieve!
there are ways to make cash shops work in f2p games without disrupting too much when it's only cosmetics or some mild additional grinding but unfortunately a manager's often has every interest to make life in a mmorpg annoying up to nearly impossible for a free or even a paying player in order to 'convince' them to spend cash.
that was the reason i quit a game like runes of magic where my thoughts about the developers greed hampered the experience even though i eventually payed more than in a subscription based mmorpg (:p) ... a 'f2p' game like that became (after a much more enjoyable beta with an acceptible cash shop principel) is simply build around earning/scamming money in so many ways that a game eventually feels 'soaked' with greed instead of fun.
as for lotro ... it's funny that the site mentions both 'free trial' and 'going free' at the same time currently ... less funny is one of the 'free trial' conditions: you're not allowed to trade with players during your trial period. if they'd keep a rule like that while it's so-called 'free to play' then that one rule is already enough to say i won't even bother to try this game because it's going to push any game into a 'have' and 'have not' class system where the 'have nots' are going to try in as devious ways as gold sellers just to attempt to enjoy the same quality of game as the 'haves' and such things are devastating for game communities.
Great response. Posters have more sense than editors.
Locked quests to be unlocked by money. A Gold bag limited by money. Content to be unlocked by money. Potions that makes you win to be bought by money. Deeds to be unlocked by money.
The "I win" button to be unlocked by money is only XXXX dollars away.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Wow, the amount of misinformation is unbelieveable. Do people actually read anything before they post? Deeds are not being sold. Deed slots are. You still have to work for that deed.
Lifers and subscribers who have already purchased all the expansions do not have to pay to unlock content or gold bags. Only F2P'ers have to purchase this kinda thing. The only "I Win" button I see is in your imagination.
So the way i see it, the games subscriber level had fallen way lower than what was required to cover the games running costs, therefore they had to come up with some other idea. I have been told alot stopped playing because the last expansion was shite and they stopped through pure boredom. Strange though as 6 mths ago i thought the game was doign pretty well. Just goes to show how quickly a game can fall.
Or maybe its this:Turbine has a failing game, DDO. Turbine tries something out new. Its a massive success. Turbine thinks wow, this has worked out well, wonder how this would work applied to our other game? So they try it...
There is an easy way to get around this. Pay the monthly fee to be vip and play like the game is now. You people dont realize that the people getting screwed will be the F2p players. All of the restrictions are to get f2p people to either subscribe or spend money in the store. VIP subscribers have NO restrictions.
Ok, crybabies. Try to refute that?
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
What part of the whole "you can grind in game to earn currency to unlock these items" are you people just not comprehending?
Nothing to refute there (except that the F2S players aren't just buying content - that was the point after all not that you can't get around it). But you're also only teling part of the story. Just like DDO changed dramatically after Free2Start, LotRO will change and it won't be the pretty world it is now. Turbine will continue to develop their game as a one shot experience using Tolkein's storyline instead of creating an immersive Middle-Earth.
The VIP experience in DDO isn't like having a sub used to be, although you get the same benefits, because the game is different now. It feels a bit different playing and the community is definitely different. LotRO won't be the same either. Some people will like the new direction, especially those just looking to play a game once or twice through and then move on. Others, MMO hobbyists and those looking for an immersive world to spend time in, probably won't like it so much and will look for something else to play.
My hope is that there will still be gaming enthusiasts (developers) and studios that like to make good games.
Honestly Lotro's style fits well with this model. LotRO is an episodic game at its core. The soul of the game is its epic storyline, following along with the rings journey and all the events surrounding it. Its designed to slowly unfold Middle Earth in front of us as we make our trek across it. It allows a smoother development cycle without the pressure to bundle up a ton of content as an expansion.
Just look at the debacle that is WoW. they planned a content progression to last through wotlk and then have an expansion ready. however its obvious that the expansion has taken longer to develop than anticipated, so players are stuck with the same content for an extended period of time. This type of system helps prevent this from happening.I agree, really though I wouldn't so much as say it would be grinding as it would be getting through quests more so. This isn't a Korean Grindfest game, that you just go around killing xx amount of monsters for some lousy quest.
As for the poster; bobbadud, Turbine has some reasons that you can't see or comprehend as to why they have quite a bit of things locked. Your going on and on about this stuff, but if your a Sub already, like me, you would already have everything unlimited and unlocked, when they go F2P. So quit your complaining, the transition doesn't happen till this Fall. So all you complainers just take a chill pill. Also be smart and check out the official site, rather than reading an article on only a few details. Really you complainers should be more informed before talking smack about what you don't know. Now if your not a Sub, well to bad for you your going to have to pay to unlock stuff past the F2P area, if you want to progress further into the game. Turbine isn't just going to give you all the expansions/unlockables to you for free, so deal with it.
I'm sorry, but you subscribers who think you haven't been shafted by this move are in denial. You need to read through the corporate-speak coming out of the suits writing the official press releases. You also need to understand how the thought process of the MBA's who cook up these schemes work.
Basicaly, here is what is happening. Up until now, we've all been members of a nice private club with a swimming pool. We pay a reasonable fixed monthly fee that allows us to enjoy ALL the amentities of the club as little or as much as we want. In other words, we determine the level of value we are getting out of our membership by our use. It's a perfectly functional model and believe me, Turbine has made a very nice profit from it so far.
Now along comes a change in management of the club and rather then continuing to build on the nice stable business they have by gradualy increasing the membership by improving thier advertising, offering fresh new amenties to attract new members and retain the ones they have... they decide to "go big" and "commoditize" thier service. Make no mistake, this is a make or break move. It will either pay off Turbine in boatloads or it will completey ruin the business (if the execution isn't superb) but either way it will DRASTICALY alter the nature of the club you have enjoyed so far.
The first thing they do (this has ALREADY been done) is that they divert many of the resources used to keep up the grounds and to put in fresh new amentites into this commiditization project. They do this silently, without letting the membership know whats going on. As a result the grounds start looking a little stale and dishelveled and some of the membership leaves as a result. This provides even more ammo for management to justify thier big move...even though they created the problem themselves through diversion of the resources needed to keep the place up. They then anounce thier big move that's needed to "revitalize" the business to the membership..... along with lots of assurances (read spin) of how nothing will change for the current membership and only good things will come of this.
They are going to open up the club to the public, free of charge. so that everyone can come in. They'll charge the public cash on an item by item basis for using certain of the amenities (towels, soft-drinks, ice, etc). All these will of course remain free (or so they assure you) to paying members. Here's what actualy will happen....and what the new management is planning behind the scenes.
There WILL (if things go the way management hopes) be a huge new influx of people coming into the club. A certain percentage of these people will spend some cash on amenties (hence why management wants to let them in). Now some of these new people will indeed be very nice folk who just, for one reason or another, weren't going to pay a membership fee. Others, however, will be absolute riff-raff.... I'm sorry that sounds harsh, but it's the plain and simple truth... They'll pee in the pool, be rude to the staff and other guests, etc. Some of the people coming in will be coming in for the express purpose of starting trouble. Now here is one of the kickers.... Management will spend the absolute minimum in resources they can get away with to police the trouble-makers coming in. They'll probably not even increase the staff/resources already devoted to policing such things...even though the volume of problems this staff will need to deal with has just increased dramaticaly. They'll do this because in thier view, such policing efforts are considered a "cost center" not a "profit center"... and they don't want to spend very much on cost-centers. Furthermore their new business model depends on large volumes (heck even some of the trouble-makers may spend some money).... so they won't want to spend much on anything that might retard that volume. They WILL show some of the worst trouble-makers the door...so that people aren't too outraged... however since no one is checking ID at the door, there will be nothing to stop those trouble-makers from turning around and walking right back in....and the trouble-makers won't face any incentive not to do so.
Furthermore, you are going to start to see something else happening. Although members will start out with all the ammenties they currently enjoy included in thier membership fees...there would be a mass revolt otherwise. When new ammenties are added, or when existing ammenties are "improved" (read problems caused by the mass influx of guests are addressed) you are going to start to see some "premium surcharges" put on these ON TOP of the normal membership fee's..... in other words, membership no longer buys you access to all the ammenties in the club anymore...like it did before. Note that this will happen VERY gradualy and subtley.... so gradualy and subtley that many folks won't even notice....and those that do and complain will be painted (at first) as making mountains out of mole hills. This is called the "boiling frog" syndrome..... if you drop a frog into a pot of boiling water, it'll jump out right away.... however if you put the frog in the pot while the water is still cold and gradualy increase the heat, it'll stay in the pot until it boils to death. Trust me, the MBA's that cook up these type of schemes are WELL aquainted with that syndrome...in fact, they count on it in thier business plans.
What the end result for the existing membership of the club is that you'll end up with degraded services and ultimately paying more (through nickle and dime fees) for your membership. The thing that you need to be aware of is that this is exactly what the MBA running the show WANTS to achieve. It's not because they are evil...it's a simple business calculation.... providing services costs overhead (money)....collecting higher fees provides revenue (money). Maximizing profit (the holy grail of the MBA) means reducing overhead as much as you can while increasing revenue. Again, this is not evil...it's how business works. However as a CONSUMER it does work against your self interests.... your interests are the opposite of the business owner....you want to get as many services as you can for as little as you can get away with paying.
A healthy arrangement strikes a balance/compromise between the two competing sets of interests where both sides feel reasonably satisified. As a consumer, you don't need to feel the business owner is your enemy.... but you absolutely DO need to be aware when the business owner is trying to change the balance of the existing bargain on you....and you need to let them know you are aware. Make no mistake.... this move by Turbines new management is an attempt to majorly alter the nature of our current bargain with them as consumers....Don't let anyone try to snow you that it isn't.
Turbine is doing a good thing to this game by making it F2P, but providing a benefit to subscribing/buying... as any company that wants to make money should do.
When I read the complaints, i'm seeing alot of "this game isn't as free as it should be. I don't like the limits they put in for free players."
Screw off.... it's free.
Hell... I don't even like to call it free, it's a new subcscription model that allows you to play for free with limitations.
They essentially gave people who didn't want to pay MORE access... and some of those individuals get all butt hurt because they still have a problem with it.
As for Pay to Win... Win what? It's not like this game was PvP-oriented.
You could walk into most dungeons with zero traits equipped and probably do just fine on your own. if you want to top damage or healing charts... if that is your "Win"... then pay for it.
And... as always... go play something else that suits your wallet.
I have already mentioned that I was excited about the F2P in a earlier post. I can honestly say that I am surprised about a lot of the negative comments throughout this thread. For all of the LotRO vets, not all of us new players will be childish and stupid. I have been playing MMO`s since 2001 and I have never used a "cash for" item in any game. I`m a older gamer and I like to get things accomplished in a MMO. I think a lot of the LotRO vets will be happy to see new players once the F2P goes live. I know there will be some "bad apples" amung the new players, but some of us will be experienced and good players.
As far as the free game being limited goes, that is fine by me. If I like the free part, I will simply get the expansions and subscribe. I think that only the people who really want to play the game will subscribe, thus keeping out a lot of the idiots. Honestly though, the only game that has made me dislike it because of the community was World of Warcraft.
I`m still looking forward to playing this game. Hope to see some of you very soon.
How many pages is this thread now ? And all I see is a lot of assumptions and speculation. If many of you had actually read the original announcement made by Turbine, you would know that there will be a beta test for the current proposed system. All of these people saying " well I know how business people speak ", and " the devs are just candy-coating it so it doesn't sound so bad ". Do you work for Turbine ? Do you know what they are thinking or doing in their offices ? Didn't think so. You're just assuming that you know what the hell is going on. I, for one, am looking forward to new players in game. And if you don't like the changes, I look forward to you not being in game.
There is a reason Turbine has been in business as long as they have.
Interesting that the interview seemed to convey the opposite message. Hmm. Worth looking into I think, and I thank you for telling me this.
If Lotr sells things in the RMT shop that give competitive advantages to characters (e.g. stat potions), I simply have no interest in that. This kind of business model is far too manipulative for my liking. Sure you can play for free, but you'll suck. No thanks. I wouldn't want to be the weak link, and I wouldn't want to reach for my visa card to be on par with my peers.
Like I said in an earlier post, if the RMT items affect performance, this business model can be extremely manipulative. For instance, they can make a grind take a really long time, be extremely difficult, or be very boring and repetative. Why would they do this? Well, the last training session I reviewed for MMO service providers, they discussed how to use impatience to drive up demand for virtual items.
If you understand the significance of what I've just shared, you'll see why people have a problem with this. The devs have the power to shape the virtual environment so that players need/want/crave more virtual items. Would they do this? Well if their CEO wants to up the quarterly profits and tells them they have to, some will, just to keep their jobs. Most MMO houses are laying people off these days.
This sounds like an example of what I'm talking about. The grind can be extremely long, repetitive etc., so that people will become frustrated and hit the cash shop.
Another game that does this gives you two options:
1) harvest sweat off creatures (no kidding) for a very, very long and boring time, or
2) hit the cash shop and make with the visa payments.
That doesn't sound like entertainment to me; it sounds like a virtual money pit. To companies with this business model, I say, "piss off." To fellow gamers I'd say, "buyer beware, they're setting you up."
I simply dont get it. Really i dont. Let me get this straight, a couple of posters above me complain that a game, they currently cant play at all without spending money, will not be as much fun after going F2P unless you spend money. Is that about the gist of your problems? That you cant get everything as a free player who isnt supporting the company making the game one bit? That there are maybe even pieces of the game that require you to spend money if you want them?
The way some people here complain they want everything subscribers get, not pay any money and have all of that be financed by some kids in a basement with a unlimited CC buying cosmetic items which do no affect gameplay at all. That about sums it up?
Ya'll whine a lot. I like the F2P/Store model of DDO, and I like that they're doin' it for LOTRO. I will be coming back!
you know, the heroin dealer on my block has a f2p program, too. The guy that sells coke at the bus stop has a f2p policy, also. The idea is to hook you and then you pay. f2p is not Free. You don't get to play. You get to visit a couple of areas. You get to dance around the halls. If you want to be part of the game, you have to open up your wallet. Calling it f2p is misleading, and I feel should be illegal. If you can't start a game and finish a game without opening up your wallet, it is not f2p.
Thats the whole point, you didnt buy it before, you rented it, the only ones who bought it are the lifetimers. Now you get to buy it, dont like that? Well keep renting it.
I for example got me a NA account with their recent special, i paid 10$ for SoA, MoM and Mirkwood + 30 days. I would have been a braindead monkey if i had thought that would cover all the content from 1-65 in the game and meant i owned it. I mean seriously, 10$ for all that stuff + 30 days if the monthly fee alone is 15$?
You did damn well know when you bought the game that you would only be able to play it aslong as you paid your subscription. Now they change it, you dont have less while your subscribed, but you get more once you unsubscribe. And you feel cheated?! You dont have to buy anything again aslong as you stay subscribed, and if you unsubscribe you will still have more than before, so excuse me if im thinking your unreasonable. Not about your fear that they are going to gimp the game though, im a bit worried about that too.
Then again, the game wasnt going into such a good direction before either, giving the players more voice on the developement direction, if only by their wallets, has to count for something.