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  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by heerobya

    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Maverz290

     What made it not a good Lord of the Rings MMORPG?

    As indicated by m first post: because it is an overly simplified, dumbified game

    When compared to... calculus?

    Astrophysics? 

    hehe funny, you removed the part which did hold your answer which makes it quite clear that you are not interested in my answer but rather to make your point.

    But to play along in your game: TO THE BOOKS. You know the ones that Tolkien wrote?

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Yea they really should had designed LotrO for hardcore MMO players instead of for fans of Lotr... And how dare they make a story based game from a book!

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • choujiofkonochoujiofkono Member Posts: 852

         Lotro wasn't much fun from the start.  Beautiful yes, fun no.  Can't really explain it, it was just boring as hell.

    "I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
    "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
    image

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Just because it isnt excactly the same does not invalidate the comparison. Both games were doing fine with healthy subscription numbers and both were significantly altered, in LoTRO arguably against the current playerbase. And the reason seem to be the same, to make more money from a product that was already making good money.

    Except that in SWG's case, the entire core game was altered. In LOTRO, the only differnce is the pricing model, so no, you can't compare the two IMO.

    Also, who knew that multi-million dollar corporations want to maximize their profits, even from a successful product? Shocking!

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

     Exactly.

    And once AGAIN I see a parallel to SWG's NGE......ruining a good game for the sake of supposedly making more money....while tossing the majority of their current playerbase into the trash can.

    Oh please. There is no comparison to the NGE here at all. Stop with the drama already.

    The NGE took SWG from 20+ classes down to 9. It altered the entire game structure, and it did so after a paid expansion. The only thing Turbine is doing here is applying the same pricing model they're using for DDO to LOTRO. That's it.

    Just because it isnt excactly the same does not invalidate the comparison. Both games were doing fine with healthy subscription numbers and both were significantly altered, in LoTRO arguably against the current playerbase. And the reason seem to be the same, to make more money from a product that was already making good money.

    Isn't that pretty close to the definition of greed? I think it is.

     This, right here.

    And to those who try to claim that "it's just a company trying to maximise their profits", that's exactly what SOE was trying to do.

    We see what the result was. You don't change a product drastically, and basically spit in the face of your loyal customers. This is not how you make money.

    LOTRO is now actually owned by WB, by the way.....remember the WONDERFUL job they did with MxO?? They ran it into the ground, and then sold it off to SOE. And now the game doesn't even exist.

    image

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Lidane


    Originally posted by Wharg0ul



     Exactly.

    And once AGAIN I see a parallel to SWG's NGE......ruining a good game for the sake of supposedly making more money....while tossing the majority of their current playerbase into the trash can.

    Oh please. There is no comparison to the NGE here at all. Stop with the drama already.

    The NGE took SWG from 20+ classes down to 9. It altered the entire game structure, and it did so after a paid expansion. The only thing Turbine is doing here is applying the same pricing model they're using for DDO to LOTRO. That's it.

    Just because it isnt excactly the same does not invalidate the comparison. Both games were doing fine with healthy subscription numbers and both were significantly altered, in LoTRO arguably against the current playerbase. And the reason seem to be the same, to make more money from a product that was already making good money.

    Isn't that pretty close to the definition of greed? I think it is.

     This, right here.

    And to those who try to claim that "it's just a company trying to maximise their profits", that's exactly what SOE was trying to do.

    We see what the result was. You don't change a product drastically, and basically spit in the face of your loyal customers. This is not how you make money.

    LOTRO is now actually owned by WB, by the way.....remember the WONDERFUL job they did with MxO?? They ran it into the ground, and then sold it off to SOE. And now the game doesn't even exist.

    Well since you are not a LotrO player I dont understand why you worry so much for us! And most of us are smart enough to understand how this benefits us. Its not all about maximize profit, it also about making a better product that people want.

    But you keep talking for the loyal customers! (I have been playing LotrO since launch btw)

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • ComnitusComnitus Member Posts: 2,462

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    That's because DDO was tanking anyway. It could ONLY go up.

    LOTRO was doing fine as it was, with healthy subscription numbers.

    That's the thing with greed, you always want more.

    You, good sir, sound like a respectable, lore-loving defender of Tolkien's works. I implore you, please, make a Lord of the Rings MMO once LotRO inevitably crashes (it has been predicted in the all-mighty crystal ball of our soothsayers, thus it must be truth). Show this "Turbine" the error of its ways and avenge the wrongs done to the Lord of the Rings intellectual property. Help us, Yamota. You're our only hope.

    In the meantime, I'll enjoy a good game that will quite likely benefit from this change. But let me know when you're done with your deep and complex MMO. I'll certainly give it a shot.

    image

  • InfalibleInfalible Member Posts: 204

    Originally posted by Comnitus

    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    That's because DDO was tanking anyway. It could ONLY go up.

    LOTRO was doing fine as it was, with healthy subscription numbers.

    That's the thing with greed, you always want more.

    You, good sir, sound like a respectable, lore-loving defender of Tolkien's works. I implore you, please, make a Lord of the Rings MMO once LotRO inevitably crashes (it has been predicted in the all-mighty crystal ball of our soothsayers, thus it must be truth). Show this "Turbine" the error of its ways and avenge the wrongs done to the Lord of the Rings intellectual property. Help us, Yamota. You're our only hope.

    In the meantime, I'll enjoy a good game that will quite likely benefit from this change. But let me know when you're done with your deep and complex MMO. I'll certainly give it a shot.

    That's the thing with gamers; you always want more.

    http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!

  • Kungaloosh1Kungaloosh1 Member Posts: 260

    I am thrilled for free to play lotro. I like the game but not enogh to pay them money. No, i will not buy anything whatsoever from their shop. If it cannot be done in the free model, i will not do it.

    Thumbs up.

  • Vulnero87Vulnero87 Member Posts: 182

    I think it's already been stated, but everyone needs to read what Turbine actually means by their f2p model for LOTRO.  People are making it out to be some straight f2p with a cash shop, which it kind of is, but for the main part it isn't.  Go read it before making assumptions.

    Everyone has opinions, but does that make them the universal truth??? NO!

  • RajenRajen Member Posts: 689

    Originally posted by Cpt_Picard

    I just went to lotro.com and almost puked.... Some one please tell me this is a joke. My weekend has just been ruined.

     

    I'm glad it has gone F2P, since I have a thing about paying for more than one subsciption game a month. I can jump in this game at will now without having to pay.

     

    Now, I don't like F2P models when I want to dedicate to a main game, but if im just playing it casually i'd rather not spend the $15. I think this is great =)

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

     This, right here.

    And to those who try to claim that "it's just a company trying to maximise their profits", that's exactly what SOE was trying to do.

    We see what the result was. You don't change a product drastically, and basically spit in the face of your loyal customers. This is not how you make money.

    LOTRO is now actually owned by WB, by the way.....remember the WONDERFUL job they did with MxO?? They ran it into the ground, and then sold it off to SOE. And now the game doesn't even exist.

    Funny how for all the whining about SOE, no one ever mentions that Lucas Arts had just as much, if not more, to do with the changes to SWG as SOE did.

    Also, MxO was doomed to failure anyway. The Matrix was an interesting film, but the Wachowskis ruined their own franchise with the sequels and killed any long-term interest in the brand themselves.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model. It has greater profit potential and therefore it is a no-brainer business decision...

    I'm still personally undecided about the F2P model. I can see how it could potentially cause lots of damage to the genre... but I can also see how, if implemented properly, it could open the door to hundreds of thousands of gamers who would otherwise not be playing. It takes time to get far enough through an MMO to really understand what it is about and many gamers don't get far enough during free trials to know if they want to keep going for the long haul.

    Take me for example. I have tried LOTRO several times during free trials and have enjoyed the game. I never enjoyed it enough to consider paying a subscription, so I let my account expire after the trial. Now I can keep playing until higher levels for free... If I find that the later game is really enthralling (as many have suggested), I may well end up giving Turbine a bunch of my money. This is a possibility that did not exist before now.

    Sure, they may scare away some hard-liner anti-F2P gamers, but the potential for attracting new blood to the game is huge. As long as they don't start offering 'pay to win' uber items, I don't see how this is a bad thing...

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Lidane


    Originally posted by Wharg0ul



     Exactly.

    And once AGAIN I see a parallel to SWG's NGE......ruining a good game for the sake of supposedly making more money....while tossing the majority of their current playerbase into the trash can.

    Oh please. There is no comparison to the NGE here at all. Stop with the drama already.

    The NGE took SWG from 20+ classes down to 9. It altered the entire game structure, and it did so after a paid expansion. The only thing Turbine is doing here is applying the same pricing model they're using for DDO to LOTRO. That's it.

    Just because it isnt excactly the same does not invalidate the comparison. Both games were doing fine with healthy subscription numbers and both were significantly altered, in LoTRO arguably against the current playerbase. And the reason seem to be the same, to make more money from a product that was already making good money.

    Isn't that pretty close to the definition of greed? I think it is.

     This, right here.

    And to those who try to claim that "it's just a company trying to maximise their profits", that's exactly what SOE was trying to do.

    We see what the result was. You don't change a product drastically, and basically spit in the face of your loyal customers. This is not how you make money.

    LOTRO is now actually owned by WB, by the way.....remember the WONDERFUL job they did with MxO?? They ran it into the ground, and then sold it off to SOE. And now the game doesn't even exist.

     

    Every company in the world SHOULD be trying to maximize their profits...it's an obvious difference in the case of SOE and Turbine here in that the fundamental core of the game is not changing....comparing the two on the basis of how they changed the game itself is like comparing a toyota carola to a ferrari

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • mokoleusmokoleus Member Posts: 142

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Maverz290


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Relax, LoTRO wasn't a good Lord of the Rings MMORPG to begin with. Hopefully a more serious company will buy the rights and make a true Lord of the Rings MMORPG.

    You know one with depth and complexity, like the books.

     What made it not a good Lord of the Rings MMORPG? In your eyes.

    As indicated by m first post: because it is an overly simplified, dumbified game which is contrary to the books which had huge depth.

    you do know, that ever thing turbine does with lotro had to be shown, and approved by tolkiens estate right? that the reasons it doesn't have meaningfull pvp is due to the estate not wanting players to be evil. no company truly gets the rights to lord of the rings. there more of a chain store, they have some free will but in the end, they have to follow the estates rule. so the mmo your hoping for, may never come. i for one think turbine has done a great job over all, other then making it easier every few months... which is a general mmo trend. haven't really played a hard mmo in a long damn time.

    but as a lifetime subscriber, i don't like the fact they've decided to go f2p, but i'm holding judgment until it happens. i don't feel screwed in anyway, i've been playing sinces a early beta phase. it could spell failure, or it might be huge for them like DDo. i prefer my mmos to have smaller numbers, due to less asses, but regardless of p2p or f2p, asses come in numbers. though, without any real pvp, lotro has had the least amount of asses, and i don't really see that changing. all nine of my characters are out of the starting area, so i don't really see this effecting me personally. plus, with my monthly staple of turbine points, i might just be getting free expansions from now on..... though i do wonder, what happens to characters already at level 65 from accounts that aren't subscribing. you think there character will be locked, or is that a cool way of getting around the f2p part.

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by Anubisan

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.

    Pretty much.

    Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Yeeeeeessssss!!!!!

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by Anubisan

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.

    Pretty much.

    Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.

     And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.

    But I don't think it will.

    We have games like Darkfall, MO, and others trying to bring MMORPG gaming back to it's roots. Yes, major titles, designed to be cash cows for their corporate creators may all go that route...but they seldom create anything I'd want to play anyway.

    Instead, I see a splitting of the genres.

    A: WoW-esq themepark games with cash shops and F2P models.

    B: Virtual world style games, not necessarily sandbox but with a few going that route, with a traditional P2P model.

     

    Route A might even end up on consoles....route B never will.

    You can have your "so instant gratification I don't even have to play" games. But REAL MMORPGs will survive, as long as there are people who find enjoyment in a sense of progress, and achievement in a persistant-world environment.

    image

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641

    Originally posted by Xtrusion

    People are so scared of change, it amuses me everytime i see it.

     

    I'm sorry, but this is just FULL of assumptions on your part, if you're saying this referring to this particular change of LotRO going free to play.  Actually....it's pretty much assumption if that comment is directed toward ANY situation or product that is changing and has people complaining about it.

     

    Sometimes people just actually LIKE AND ENJOY something the way IT IS. It has nothing to do with being "scared of change." Why would you WANT something to change if you're already happy with things as they are? 

     

    Change JUST for the sake of CHANGE....is pointless really.  For changes to make SENSE, a person needs to see the need or potential improvement a change might make.  This pretty much applies to all of LIFE, not just gaming.

     

    Some people....like the most hardcore LotRO players....don't see the NEED for change here, and don't believe it has the potential to do more good than harm.  That has nothing to do with FEAR, and everything to do with...."why fix something that I don't perceive to be BROKEN?"

     

    Personally, I LOATHE when I am sold something under the pretense that is is a certain type of product and will perform in a certain way, and then the company I bought it from changes it into something else entirely.  I mean....that ISN'T the product I purchased.  I have a RIGHT to be irritated by that.  When you are the customer....that feels like you were presented with a classic old "bait and switch"....the company shows the potential customer ONE thing, and then ultimately presents them with a product that is NOT what they were sold on and NOT what they thought they were paying for.  FEAR has nothing to do with that.  When I buy oranges....I want fucking oranges. Don't tell me you're selling me oranges, and let me sign up on a plan to buy oranges and then turn around and tell me, "You know....we've decided that pineapples are better....so from now on, that money you decided to invest in oranges, because you love oranges....well....we're going to give you pineapples from now on."  And I FUCKING HATE PINEAPPLES!  I didn't buy pineapples and I don't WANT pineapples....I want the damn ORANGES I paid for!

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by Comnitus

    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    That's because DDO was tanking anyway. It could ONLY go up.

    LOTRO was doing fine as it was, with healthy subscription numbers.

    That's the thing with greed, you always want more.

    You, good sir, sound like a respectable, lore-loving defender of Tolkien's works. I implore you, please, make a Lord of the Rings MMO once LotRO inevitably crashes (it has been predicted in the all-mighty crystal ball of our soothsayers, thus it must be truth). Show this "Turbine" the error of its ways and avenge the wrongs done to the Lord of the Rings intellectual property. Help us, Yamota. You're our only hope.

    In the meantime, I'll enjoy a good game that will quite likely benefit from this change. But let me know when you're done with your deep and complex MMO. I'll certainly give it a shot.

    Hey, give me a 50 million, or whatever Turbine had, budget and I would be glad to.

    Besides, since when does critics have to do something better themselves. I saw Prince of Persia a while ago and I thought it blew. Must I be able to make a better Prince of Persia movie to think it sucks?

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

     And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.

    But I don't think it will.

    It's not a matter of "if". It's a matter of "when".

    This is going to happen, whether you like it or not. As MMO's become more expensive to develop and maintain, game developers are looking for anything that goes beyond the traditional $15/month sub. If this pricing model is as successful for LOTRO as it was for DDO, expect to see it in more games, especially any newer games that launch in the future.

  • DonnieBrascoDonnieBrasco Member Posts: 1,757

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by Lidane


    Originally posted by Anubisan

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.

    Pretty much.

    Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.

     And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.

    But I don't think it will.

     

    Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.

    DB

    Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by Anubisan

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.

    Pretty much.

    Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.

     And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.

    But I don't think it will.

     

    Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.

    DB

     LOL....I doubt it, bud.

    Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.

    And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.

    I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??

     

     

    Edit: F2P models are for games that are tanking...not games that are doing well, and growing. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised to see your beloved Fallen Earth offering crafting recipes in an item mall before too long here.

    image

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco


    Originally posted by Wharg0ul


    Originally posted by Lidane


    Originally posted by Anubisan

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.

    Pretty much.

    Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.

     And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.

    But I don't think it will.

     

    Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.

    DB

     LOL....I doubt it, bud.

    Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.

    And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.

    I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??

    LOL you actually think the unlimited trial for AoC is comparable to this new buisness model? You really are living in denial if you dont think Funcom is planning something simillar right now.

    WB/Turbine just made 300k of their players very happy for breathing new life into LotrO and making sure we have a bright future for a long time to come. Maybe AoC should just do another server merge?

    If DDO increased revenue with over 500% and trippled their subscribers, imagine what it could do with LotrO!

    We all know that Funcom have done alot of stupid things in the past but they are not so stupid that they would miss an opportunity like this.

    But you keep on living in your bubble!

    Edit to your edit: Failing MMOs merge servers while sucesfull ones open new servers!

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    Originally posted by Papadam

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Originally posted by Anubisan

    Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.

    Pretty much.

    Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.

     And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.

    But I don't think it will.

     

    Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.

    DB

     LOL....I doubt it, bud.

    Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.

    And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.

    I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??

    LOL you actually think the unlimited trial for AoC is comparable to this new buisness model? You really are living in denial if you dont think Funcom is planning something simillar right now.

    WB/Turbine just made 300k of their players very happy for breathing new life into LotrO and making sure we have a bright future for a long time to come. Maybe AoC should just do another server merge?

    If DDO increased revenue with over 500% and trippled their subscribers, imagine what it could do with LotrO!

    We all know that Funcom have done alot of stupid things in the past but they are not so stupid that they would miss an opportunity like this.

    But you keep on living in your bubble!

     I wouldn't call it "denial"...I'd call it having done business with Funcom for close to a decade now, and getting to know their business style.

    No, I don't expect AoC to go F2p for years, and when it finally does, I expect it to follow the same lines as Anarchy Online, with advertisements on the loading screens and no expansion content without a subscription.

    And WB / Turbine made their customers happy, eh?? Oh So THAT'S why all the kinships are disbanding and moving to other games....they're HAPPY. image

     

    And this right here: "If DDO increased revenue with over 500% and trippled their subscribers, imagine what it could do with LotrO!"  makes me laugh. You really DON'T understand, do you??

    DDO was DYING. There was ONLY one way to go....up. Yeah, getting people to play a game that no one is playing is a good thing.

    Drastically changing a game that over a quarter of a million people are playing is NOT.

    Just ask SOE.

    People like you are simply too short-sighted to see the big picture.

    image

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