I think you have a point. They were bound to know 2 weeks ago that they were going F2P but still sold tou a lifetime sub.
Start quoting some consumer legislation at them, im sure theyll back down (codemasters). Im sure long disatnce selling in the EU has a cooling off period in which the law says you can get a refund.
so there is no way they have got their value for money if they return after the F2P occurs.
How would you know? The game has already payed off for a lot of people, that got lifetime sub's back in the day. Plus lifetime under the F2P model... will still continue to pay off. Please enlighten me, on how it won't?
From what i read, seems like they were selling a lifetime subs at a discount, although they knew they'd switch to F2P pretty soon. But they didn't let anyone know about their plans of going F2P. Instead they lowered the price on lifetime subs to sell more. Just before changing the game. Say whatever you want, that's just plain fraud.
I don't know if it's technically 'fraud' but I doubt a court would look kindly to such practices.
Talk to a lawyer. Seriously. Do NOT use any of those points they are 'giving' you, as that might be interpreted as accepted the changed contract.
It's time for gamers to realize that they have legal rights in dealing with MMO companies. The EULA is not a 'get out of jail free' card.
The EULA is effectively a contract you agree too and sign up too.
As long as they provide a service that fits the terms of this agreement, you might have a problem.
The real problem is mmo gamers just don't read them, they just scroll down to the bottom and click "i agree".
In the UK everyone has statutory rights, which is basically the mechanism by which the law maintains that any purchase will provide the utility it promises, if the buyer is justifiably unsatisfied, they can return the product for a full refund.
In the UK, no company policy on returns effects this right, companies CANNOT effect your statutory rights and CANNOT override them on the basis of "complany policy", i.e, you buy a phone, it's not what you thought you were getting, you take it back, they refuse to give you a refund <bzzz> thats technically illegal as long as there is no ambiguity as to what was promised and what was delivered. Phone companies in the UK STILL try to pull this bullcrap, particularly high-street mobile phone shops.
Problem with an online EULA is i don't think any of them reside in the UK or in UK law. If the company is in Zimbabwe for example, you might have to abide by Zimbabwe law on this. It's tricky.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Btw, for those that understand how Lifetime VIP is going to be better, they are still offering Lifetime subs at £75 until the 30th June.
If you want one, now is the time to grab it. Turbine have stopped selling them completely, cause they know in the long run they won't make any money out of Lifetime VIPs.
I'm unhappy, hence the post and I thank all the peeps who have positively contributed here.
The issue is clear, I entered into a contract which the seller had no intention of honouring their side.
This is WRONG.
I did not want to pay for F2P content.
I do not want to play a F2P game.
If they had asked me for £75 for free to play content I would have quit and subbed to another game.
I asked a question earlier, would anyone pay £75 for F2P content?
People get ripped on the internet all the time, this is obviously now my turn, I'm just lucky its not a life changing amount of money.
Problem for them is I'm not going to let this lie.
Its not really the £75 to be honest, its the principle.
This type of practice in this industry needs cleaned up now.
They gave you EXACTLY what you bought, a lifetime subscription, and your not paying for free to play content, do you even know whats included in teh f2p option? pretty clear you dont.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I find amusing the conspiracy theory, like executives fleeing in the middle of the night with suspicious briefcases.
If they decided going for DDO model, most likely is that the current state will lead ultimately to shutdown( far in the future), before letting the game deteriorate too much this can give fresh air to the game. I am not sure if I am going to play, but I bet many people will try it and eventually get vip option.
I wish good luck to Turbine with this move, hopefully it will work out well.
Derrrrr that's why you don't get a lifetime sub for a game that young. Stop blaming people for your own stupidity. And for the record, Turbine is doing and has been doing the right thing since it made ddo f2p. Just a pity lotro has no real pvp/rvr mechanics which would make it a REAL lotr game....:-
I asked a question earlier, would anyone pay £75 for F2P content?
I'd pay 75e for a DDO lifetime membership. If you have to argue why, then you don't have an F'n clue as to how 'free to play' that game actually is. Lifers and subs get all the content, freebies get less than half. That's basically how LotRO is going to do it, but I guess there is absolutely no way to convince you of such. So kiss my coolo, chica! (_))
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Hey OP, got a mad idea for ya, wa doncha call those scrubs who sold you your computer ? They ripped you obviously off as they sell it way cheaper now. And dont forget microsoft, gotta keep real right?
I'm going to side with the OP on this one. Doesn't matter how much they intend to compensate the LF sub folks, they really should have terminated the offer the moment they made the decision to switch over to a F2P model (which probably happened months ago) instead of reducing its price during recent days.
Probably has already been stated, but if you paid them via credit card try getting the charges reversed.
edit: I have to say, Turbine runs an unusual busniess model fo changing the terms of their sub models after launching which will make me leary of ever purchasinng a future product from them. (besides, I don't care for their game designs)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I see lots of you are defending the F2P change, guess when you have no money its a good thing, but, one of the things LotRO is known for is its great community, and that my friends is whats going out the window with this change, I have briefly checked out a few F2P games just to see if the quality matches P2P MMoRPGs and the terrible communities far over shadowed any thing positive in any F2P game, oh well its just a game and for me its one going into the trash bin.
Finally for a lot of the posters here who dont know, the F in F2P means Free. So i didnt get what I paid for.
Don't tell us about what *we* don't know. You obviously still have problems grasping how 'free' DDO is, and you expect LotRO to turn into Maply Story. ~and again you say "you don't want to pay for content", well guess what, you bought all future content in LotRO for 75e while everyone else is going to have to pay 10e a month or buy it in bits and pieces. The F2P changeover is going to get people in the door, but once they realise how much is *actually going to be free* you are likely to only see freebies use the music system - that is, if that much is even free of charge. I expect a 5$ music pass or something, which is fair.
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it isnt a fraud cause they will itemised everything in the game in the f2p version so 75 life time its abargain compared to what f2p will cost to get full content .but f2p will garanty the game will be populated for years to come because lot of market like asia dont hop in a game if it doesnt have a f2p model.sad ?yes but remember their reason behind it!they were ignored a long time by the gaming industry and the only companys they was sending asia game were f2p company so f2p gaming is the asia way of saying
bwah, if i knew it was going f2p i'd buy the lifetime... i didn't play this game only 'cause i knew it was dying... i suppose you can't buy it anymore now T.T
As much as I think this is being blown out of proportion and too many tears have been shed, I have to agree that the lifetime sub offer should have been removed long ago when they knew they were going to go F2P.
I wouldn't be bothered at all myself as it's still a very good deal for lifetime VIP access - but I can understand why others are angry or upset about it. Maybe they'll do refunds for recent purchases, we'll see I guess.
"If all you can say is... "It's awful, it's not innovative, it's ugly, it's blah.." Then you're an unimaginative and unpolished excuse for human life" -eburn
This lifetime sub is a good deal for some - OK, use it and enjoy. But for the OP it was a fraud, because he didn't pay for a F2P game. He wanted to play a P2P game and probably didn't care for a fucking VIP points or whatever. He clearly said - if he knew the game's going F2P, he wouldn't buy a lifetime membership.
If a company knew they are going to change the game drastically by going free to play, they should have noticed their customers. But they kept it in secret and tried to push more lifetime subs by offering the discount.
Yes, it could be in EULA, it could be legal and so on, but it's an unethical behaviour and a disrespect for the customers.
I see lots of you are defending the F2P change, guess when you have no money its a good thing, but, one of the things LotRO is known for is its great community, and that my friends is whats going out the window with this change, I have briefly checked out a few F2P games just to see if the quality matches P2P MMoRPGs and the terrible communities far over shadowed any thing positive in any F2P game, oh well its just a game and for me its one going into the trash bin.
Please, how good is wow community despite beeing p2p? What makes Lotro community is imo the game setting and style and not p2p, no matter the price you simple will have less 1337 in a rp crowd
I think they are giving away 500 token up too the start of Free to play and after that i don't think you get anymore free tokens a month.
Says on their FAQ that if you subscribe through the summer you get 500 points for each month until the changeover. If it's a lifetime sub you get an extra 1000 on top of it. Both get the 500 point 'allowance' a month afterwards, regardless.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Comments
I think you have a point. They were bound to know 2 weeks ago that they were going F2P but still sold tou a lifetime sub.
Start quoting some consumer legislation at them, im sure theyll back down (codemasters). Im sure long disatnce selling in the EU has a cooling off period in which the law says you can get a refund.
How would you know? The game has already payed off for a lot of people, that got lifetime sub's back in the day. Plus lifetime under the F2P model... will still continue to pay off. Please enlighten me, on how it won't?
The EULA is effectively a contract you agree too and sign up too.
As long as they provide a service that fits the terms of this agreement, you might have a problem.
The real problem is mmo gamers just don't read them, they just scroll down to the bottom and click "i agree".
In the UK everyone has statutory rights, which is basically the mechanism by which the law maintains that any purchase will provide the utility it promises, if the buyer is justifiably unsatisfied, they can return the product for a full refund.
In the UK, no company policy on returns effects this right, companies CANNOT effect your statutory rights and CANNOT override them on the basis of "complany policy", i.e, you buy a phone, it's not what you thought you were getting, you take it back, they refuse to give you a refund <bzzz> thats technically illegal as long as there is no ambiguity as to what was promised and what was delivered. Phone companies in the UK STILL try to pull this bullcrap, particularly high-street mobile phone shops.
Problem with an online EULA is i don't think any of them reside in the UK or in UK law. If the company is in Zimbabwe for example, you might have to abide by Zimbabwe law on this. It's tricky.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
You are just begging for a strawman's argument here...
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Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Btw, for those that understand how Lifetime VIP is going to be better, they are still offering Lifetime subs at £75 until the 30th June.
If you want one, now is the time to grab it. Turbine have stopped selling them completely, cause they know in the long run they won't make any money out of Lifetime VIPs.
Ok.
I'm unhappy, hence the post and I thank all the peeps who have positively contributed here.
The issue is clear, I entered into a contract which the seller had no intention of honouring their side.
This is WRONG.
I did not want to pay for F2P content.
I do not want to play a F2P game.
If they had asked me for £75 for free to play content I would have quit and subbed to another game.
I asked a question earlier, would anyone pay £75 for F2P content?
People get ripped on the internet all the time, this is obviously now my turn, I'm just lucky its not a life changing amount of money.
Problem for them is I'm not going to let this lie.
Its not really the £75 to be honest, its the principle.
This type of practice in this industry needs cleaned up now.
A lot of practices in this industry need to be cleaned up.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
They gave you EXACTLY what you bought, a lifetime subscription, and your not paying for free to play content, do you even know whats included in teh f2p option? pretty clear you dont.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I find amusing the conspiracy theory, like executives fleeing in the middle of the night with suspicious briefcases.
If they decided going for DDO model, most likely is that the current state will lead ultimately to shutdown( far in the future), before letting the game deteriorate too much this can give fresh air to the game. I am not sure if I am going to play, but I bet many people will try it and eventually get vip option.
I wish good luck to Turbine with this move, hopefully it will work out well.
Derrrrr that's why you don't get a lifetime sub for a game that young. Stop blaming people for your own stupidity. And for the record, Turbine is doing and has been doing the right thing since it made ddo f2p. Just a pity lotro has no real pvp/rvr mechanics which would make it a REAL lotr game....:-
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Hey OP, got a mad idea for ya, wa doncha call those scrubs who sold you your computer ? They ripped you obviously off as they sell it way cheaper now. And dont forget microsoft, gotta keep real right?
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Just to reiterate to anyone who has not read my post.
I dont want to play a F2P game, my choice.
I have tried to avoid giving an opinion on this however I feel I need to cos people are choosing to flame when they are clearly on fire themselves.
F2P= Rip Off. My opinion.
I also feel that in paying I can avoid a lot certain types of players. My decision.My choice.
Thats why I dont want to be involved with F2P.
If you play F2P and are happy with that then fine.
If you buy content then also fine.
I dont want to.
If I was on my standard sub and the notice came on F2P I would have quit, and I reckon many others will do that. Up to them.
Im angry cos I had just bought a lifetime sub only 2 weeks ago on an offer which is still open and mentions no F2P.
Finally for a lot of the posters here who dont know, the F in F2P means Free. So i didnt get what I paid for.
I'm bored
I'm going to side with the OP on this one. Doesn't matter how much they intend to compensate the LF sub folks, they really should have terminated the offer the moment they made the decision to switch over to a F2P model (which probably happened months ago) instead of reducing its price during recent days.
Probably has already been stated, but if you paid them via credit card try getting the charges reversed.
edit: I have to say, Turbine runs an unusual busniess model fo changing the terms of their sub models after launching which will make me leary of ever purchasinng a future product from them. (besides, I don't care for their game designs)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I see lots of you are defending the F2P change, guess when you have no money its a good thing, but, one of the things LotRO is known for is its great community, and that my friends is whats going out the window with this change, I have briefly checked out a few F2P games just to see if the quality matches P2P MMoRPGs and the terrible communities far over shadowed any thing positive in any F2P game, oh well its just a game and for me its one going into the trash bin.
Godz of War I call Thee
Don't tell us about what *we* don't know. You obviously still have problems grasping how 'free' DDO is, and you expect LotRO to turn into Maply Story. ~and again you say "you don't want to pay for content", well guess what, you bought all future content in LotRO for 75e while everyone else is going to have to pay 10e a month or buy it in bits and pieces. The F2P changeover is going to get people in the door, but once they realise how much is *actually going to be free* you are likely to only see freebies use the music system - that is, if that much is even free of charge. I expect a 5$ music pass or something, which is fair.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
it isnt a fraud cause they will itemised everything in the game in the f2p version so 75 life time its abargain compared to what f2p will cost to get full content .but f2p will garanty the game will be populated for years to come because lot of market like asia dont hop in a game if it doesnt have a f2p model.sad ?yes but remember their reason behind it!they were ignored a long time by the gaming industry and the only companys they was sending asia game were f2p company so f2p gaming is the asia way of saying
you want us to play your game go f2p or go home!
bwah, if i knew it was going f2p i'd buy the lifetime... i didn't play this game only 'cause i knew it was dying... i suppose you can't buy it anymore now T.T
As much as I think this is being blown out of proportion and too many tears have been shed, I have to agree that the lifetime sub offer should have been removed long ago when they knew they were going to go F2P.
I wouldn't be bothered at all myself as it's still a very good deal for lifetime VIP access - but I can understand why others are angry or upset about it. Maybe they'll do refunds for recent purchases, we'll see I guess.
"If all you can say is... "It's awful, it's not innovative, it's ugly, it's blah.." Then you're an unimaginative and unpolished excuse for human life" -eburn
So why are people attacking the OP?
This lifetime sub is a good deal for some - OK, use it and enjoy. But for the OP it was a fraud, because he didn't pay for a F2P game. He wanted to play a P2P game and probably didn't care for a fucking VIP points or whatever. He clearly said - if he knew the game's going F2P, he wouldn't buy a lifetime membership.
If a company knew they are going to change the game drastically by going free to play, they should have noticed their customers. But they kept it in secret and tried to push more lifetime subs by offering the discount.
Yes, it could be in EULA, it could be legal and so on, but it's an unethical behaviour and a disrespect for the customers.
I think they are giving away 500 token up too the start of Free to play and after that i don't think you get anymore free tokens a month.
==================================================
Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!
Please, how good is wow community despite beeing p2p? What makes Lotro community is imo the game setting and style and not p2p, no matter the price you simple will have less 1337 in a rp crowd
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Says on their FAQ that if you subscribe through the summer you get 500 points for each month until the changeover. If it's a lifetime sub you get an extra 1000 on top of it. Both get the 500 point 'allowance' a month afterwards, regardless.
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People should learn to READ the interviews and the FAQ before screaming doom.. srsly...
For lifetime subbers and for normal subbers NOTHING CHANGES
The F2P this is JUST a MARKETING STUNT. Free players get only:
-Ered luin
-The shire
-Bree
-quests up to around lvl 25
-1 dungeon, the great barrows
and I think a few skimrishes, but that's about it, no mounts, no mom ect.. ect...
this is just an extended free trial version of lotro the word F2P is ONLY to GET MORE PEOPLE IN THE GAME.
So your lifetime sub is well spend, cause you well be one of the VIP, nothing changes for you.
And now relax and stop screaming doom over lotro
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waiting for ... nothing..