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General: The Westernization of Eastern Art in MMOs

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  • frogifrogi Member Posts: 18

    Sorry if I made it seem that the visual is the only thing.  But I don't download a game if the screenshots or game footage (not trailers) doesn't appeal to me.  I definitely will not subscribe to a game that doesn't engage me visually.

    To me, it's equal measure.  It could be the greatest game in history, but if it looks silly, ridiculous, or has 16 bit graphics then I don't play.  It could also be the must cinematic, stunning work of art possible -without a  game behind the art, don't waste my time.

    But the art is the first thing you see.

  • rollen01rollen01 Member Posts: 38

    Originally posted by frogi

    Sorry if I made it seem that the visual is the only thing.  But I don't download a game if the screenshots or game footage (not trailers) doesn't appeal to me.  I definitely will not subscribe to a game that doesn't engage me visually.

    To me, it's equal measure.  It could be the greatest game in history, but if it looks silly, ridiculous, or has 16 bit graphics then I don't play.  It could also be the must cinematic, stunning work of art possible -without a  game behind the art, don't waste my time.

    But the art is the first thing you see.

    I just don't understand how a person could do that. I would much rather play something that is fun then visually great. Now if something came along that built on that fun and was visually better then I would switch in a heart beat. But I don't understand how people who know that a game is better yet pay for something at the same price just for the graphics. It's like if I had the choice between painting my own crappy drawing and enjoy it with friends or just pay a guy money for showing me his painting. Both cost same one is less engaging and entertaining then the other.

     

    That might have been the worst comparison ever but I'm starting to run low on juice here so I'm just gonna leave it at that. Like usual I don't understand why people do what they do and is probably why I won't be a billionare in my life time.

    image

  • frogifrogi Member Posts: 18

    Well, I'm definitely not part of the (apparent) target market either.  And my typical game life is around 6 months before it gets boring and I move on.  The only game I seem to keep going back to is GW (and lately DDO).  I guess I prefer the MMOs that focus less on "multi".  I like to trade, chat, or fight other players but I absolutely detest "grouping".  Since I don't fall into the majority of the market, all games suck after a while.  So give me something optically appealing till I get bored.

  • rollen01rollen01 Member Posts: 38

    Originally posted by frogi

    Well, I'm definitely not part of the (apparent) target market either.  And my typical game life is around 6 months before it gets boring and I move on.  The only game I seem to keep going back to is GW (and lately DDO).  I guess I prefer the MMOs that focus less on "multi".  I like to trade, chat, or fight other players but I absolutely detest "grouping".  Since I don't fall into the majority of the market, all games suck after a while.  So give me something optically appealing till I get bored.

    I can see how art is a big importance to you if you're the solo-player type then. I hate being forced into regular groups because I tend to level faster then my friends and it throws me into soloing and PuGing but by nature I'm a group player and thrive on the multi aspect of MMOs. Other wise I would just invest into buying more games for my consoles.

    image

  • A.BlacklochA.Blackloch Member UncommonPosts: 842

    I'm for western art all the way. I hate the awkward armors, slutty looking female costumes, huge canoe sized blades, cute&fluffy animal races etc. that eastern style always offers. That's why I usually just skip most games that doesn't look good to me, without even caring if the game itself could actually be good.

  • I've been sick of crapanime for years, please let it die!

  • ShealladhShealladh Member UncommonPosts: 90

    Originally posted by Mortemia

    I'm for western art all the way. I hate the awkward armors, slutty looking female costumes, huge canoe sized blades, cute&fluffy animal races etc. that eastern style always offers. That's why I usually just skip most games that doesn't look good to me, without even caring if the game itself could actually be good.

     I swing closer to western because of all that.

    Maybe the western developer need to start broader saturation of the market rather than all being overbudgeted (EA and lucasart stuppidity) MMO's.

    In the end I think it all comes to broadening the choices not limiting them. I still say if the gameplay is there, I'll give it a go. Hell I even downloaded the 8GB Mortal Online and it was definately a waste of my time and resources. There is no gameplay whatsoever!

    So I'm going to try out Craft of Gods becuase of it's different gameplay type.

    Just to add to the art debate, why is it that millios of people pay through the nose for console games yet they are locked into a system spec for 10 years by Sony, Micro$oft, or Nintendo?

    If you ask me, PC Devs need to look at the system specs of the home user rather than the latest greatest PC setup. Besides they could have an internal system specs DB for what people have and as their player base upgrades, they could release updates for them.

    I'm just so sick of looking at the system requirements of games lately because they are a marketing spin rather than what is needed. I just got "Theatre of War 2: Kursk 1943" which recons you need a quad core minimum specs, yet I can run the game with full graphics etc turned up and run it fine on an old P4 3.7 PC. So WTF?

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    The westernization still keeps too many eastern features that many western players don't like.

     

     

    There was a good talk about it: Asian style MMO yay/nay?

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Originally posted by rollen01

    Originally posted by frogi

    Sorry if I made it seem that the visual is the only thing.  But I don't download a game if the screenshots or game footage (not trailers) doesn't appeal to me.  I definitely will not subscribe to a game that doesn't engage me visually.

    To me, it's equal measure.  It could be the greatest game in history, but if it looks silly, ridiculous, or has 16 bit graphics then I don't play.  It could also be the must cinematic, stunning work of art possible -without a  game behind the art, don't waste my time.

    But the art is the first thing you see.

    I just don't understand how a person could do that. I would much rather play something that is fun then visually great. Now if something came along that built on that fun and was visually better then I would switch in a heart beat. But I don't understand how people who know that a game is better yet pay for something at the same price just for the graphics. It's like if I had the choice between painting my own crappy drawing and enjoy it with friends or just pay a guy money for showing me his painting. Both cost same one is less engaging and entertaining then the other.

     

    That might have been the worst comparison ever but I'm starting to run low on juice here so I'm just gonna leave it at that. Like usual I don't understand why people do what they do and is probably why I won't be a billionare in my life time.

     

    It's totally understandable for an MMO. I mean not speaking about top notch graphics but about an art style that we like/enjoy.

     

    I play an MMO to feel immersed into another world with its creatures, environments and so.

     

    For example I played Lineage II Beta and as someone said in the general chat: elves run like they had anal sex for too long. Sorry but this eastern running animation is just killing the fun for some of us.

     

    Same for overdone spell effects, panties for all female clothes/armors, oversized weapons and shoulder pads and so.

    I can understand some do like this but some really don't.

  • shoranhimurashoranhimura Member Posts: 1

    I agree at certain points in the text but lets face the truth: when you say "more like warhammer 40k" and "western style appeal more" its basically american style, just like the machos from gears of war or halo...

     

    The point is that its too extremist: or its too anime style or too macho style...Lineage had such great character design and yet is a hell of anime style....

  • kevorkianjkevorkianj Member Posts: 54

    Regarding aesthetic styles, I believe there's a lot of hybridization going on. Take WoW for example, elven architecture really looks East Asian. 

    image

  • LadyAlibiLadyAlibi Member UncommonPosts: 297

    I like both east and west, in terms of style, as long as the art is well done and the style is applied consistently. I hate when the character models don't look like they belong in that world, or when there's that one tree that looks like it was pasted into the world from some other game, or area A looks beautiful and area B looks like a high school art project.

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

    I kind of disagree with your views of art styles ( and seemingly most posters too). For intance having a katana in the game doesn't makes the artwork more eastern.  having an asian theme to the game does not make the art style asian. I mean the new AoC expac is set in asia, but the actual artwork itself is still totally western... western because its realistic, not cartoony, gritty, realisitc lighting shadows. you descrive WAR as those things but I dont think its a great example, WAR is still very cartoony and kiddy at the end of the day, its not as dark as it likes to think it is. better examples in mmos at least is lotro, mo, aoc.

    eastern art style is often cartoony, but thats not what makes it easten. Its always unrealistically lighting and too well lit up. for example there is never shadows on faces they all look like they are in a model shoot all of the time. great example of a non cartoony game which still has a very eastern art style is guildwars. 

    basically its the lighting and textures imo which define eastern and western game art genres. not the type of weapons in game or even nessarily how cartoony they are. there are cartoony games which are still totally western such as borderlands, its down to the lighting mostly.

    My blog: image

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

    Originally posted by immodium

    Don't like eastern art style. Just looks way to clean for me.

    this is the best summary of eastern art work in a few words. too clean. everything is perfect, beautiful and dreamlike and nothing realistic or lifelike.

    My blog: image

  • soap46soap46 Member Posts: 169

    I don't really care for the eastern style.  Everything is...  the same.  All the characters have that pretty boy anime look.  I know it's not "true" anime, but you're really just splitting hairs there.  I honestly wouldn't even call that anime look or even most anime in general art anymore.  It's just all the same.  No originality. 

    Western art at least seems to have some diversity.  I mean look at games like Halo, WoW, Little Big Planet, Warhammer, Everquest, and Team Fortress 2.  You can immediately tell them apart.  Now look at games like Aion, Lineage, Final Fantasy, Christ even Demon's Souls.  Now we're moving into homogenized territory. 

    Now you can like anime all you want, but I personally will never consider it art.  If anything it's the result of a complete lack of creativity and originality.

  • KhorraxKhorrax Member UncommonPosts: 53

    Originally posted by soap46



    I don't really care for the eastern style.  Everything is...  the same.  All the characters have that pretty boy anime look.  I know it's not "true" anime, but you're really just splitting hairs there.  I honestly wouldn't even call that anime look or even most anime in general art anymore.  It's just all the same.  No originality. 

    Western art at least seems to have some diversity.  I mean look at games like Halo, WoW, Little Big Planet, Warhammer, Everquest, and Team Fortress 2.  You can immediately tell them apart.  Now look at games like Aion, Lineage, Final Fantasy, Christ even Demon's Souls.  Now we're moving into homogenized territory. 

    Now you can like anime all you want, but I personally will never consider it art.  If anything it's the result of a complete lack of creativity and originality.


     

    You saved me some typing :P I agree with what you said there. To add a little, Eastern games simply don't have the personality, that distinct look. And most of the time building, armor and weapon art are well over the top. They're huge, with intricate patterns and shapes, but when put together the end result is mediocre at best. It's almost as if they try too much. Most of the times, simpler is better.

  • sbg711sbg711 Member Posts: 4

    Western art style should just go to hell. A great example of such would be the Nier Gestalt? and Nier Replicant fiasco. Honestly, there's a limit to how one may look stupid and ugly.

    If manly men can't accept womanly soft visuals, then they're still stuck in their early childhood ages, when kissing seemed disgusting and the opposite sex was the greater evil.

    Bulky masculine stuff is what should turn the girls on. I honestly see no sense in staring at your or someone else's chararcter's ugly ass, unless of course, that makes you feel cool.

    People with common sense in art and beauty would always chose eastern over western art  style.

  • Database82Database82 Member Posts: 179

    I enjoy both the Eastern and Western art styles, both can be amazing if done right and both can be terrible if done wrong. TERA is a game that I feel that the art is done well, the Eastern influence isn't so incredibly noticable with the giant spikey hair and triangles for eyes; it more or less is much more subtle than other games of Eastern origin. Sliders are a big thing that can make all the difference, sliders allow a player to modify there appearance to however they wish and it can appease both sides of the argument. It allows players to have that  anime look if they desire or look like normal person.

    Current MMO: Aion
    MMO Watch: Warhammer 40k Online, SWToR, GW2.
    Played: Planetside, SWG, EQ, EQ2, L2, WoW, RFO, KAL, MxO, Voyage, RO,Vanguard,Tabula Rasa, Horizons, CoH/CoV,, Lotro, FFXI
    First MMO: Everquest (Tunare Server, Ronin/Tide Guild)

  • ClovenatorClovenator Member Posts: 10

    I played Aion as well, but found the art style repetitive and sickening. It was too pretty, too bright, and too colorful at all times. Very exaggerated, and not at all "dark", even on the Asmodian, or "dark", side.

    I agree that if it had more of a western art style to it, especially a darker, grittier world, it definitely would have appealed to me more. While I don't believe a game should be solely one way or the other, I do aggree that it should find a healthy balance when trying to target a large audience.

  • HokieHokie Member UncommonPosts: 1,063

    Cloven you may want to see an optometrist, theres something wrong with your eyes.

     

    I dont think Ive ever seen an easten MMO (at least not one that Ive ever considered playing) being even remotely dark. It seems like a lot of MMO themes recently is all sugar and sunshine. (I have other problems with eastern MMO's besides the lack of...shadow.)

    Another good example of sugar and sunshine is the DCU online trailer. Its very dark and apocalyptic, yet the gameplay looks like the typical bleh. I mean comeon the J-man is a evil as they come. He'd murder a 100 or 1000 people just for a laugh. Yet I have a feeling that in the game all you'll be helping him do is rob banks and break people out of jail and steal shit. Not saying I want murder, but I'd love to be apart of his nefarious plans. And no Im not talking laughing gas and holding Gothem (or what ever city) for ransom.

    I want good and evil. Not good and mischievous.

     

    Oops, sorry about getting somewhat off topic.

    (Thanks a lot Cloven!)

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    I hate anime.. Yes, I really can;t stand to look at the stupid " i'm going to cry " eyes. I can;t stand them to the point I have actually blocked users with large anime sigs just because they irritate me so much. So no, I do not play any games with Anime big head style graphix. I would rather play a facless armless blob on a screen than play an anime game. LOL image

  • DocZDocZ Member Posts: 105

    Originally posted by soap46

    I don't really care for the eastern style.  Everything is...  the same.  All the characters have that pretty boy anime look.  I know it's not "true" anime, but you're really just splitting hairs there.  I honestly wouldn't even call that anime look or even most anime in general art anymore.  It's just all the same.  No originality. 

    Western art at least seems to have some diversity.  I mean look at games like Halo, WoW, Little Big Planet, Warhammer, Everquest, and Team Fortress 2.  You can immediately tell them apart.  Now look at games like Aion, Lineage, Final Fantasy, Christ even Demon's Souls.  Now we're moving into homogenized territory. 

    Now you can like anime all you want, but I personally will never consider it art.  If anything it's the result of a complete lack of creativity and originality.

    .... oooooook the eastern games you comparied are all fantasy based games while the eastern are all different styles. funny you should throw WoW in there as " something different catagory anywere else on this site you get complants of everyhting copying wow

    I could very well give the same comparision of eastern games  and  say  everquest ,wow, diablo , warhammer. wow clone a, b , c , d and say all eastern games look the say while  eastern  art styled  games devil may cry , mega man , street fighter , resident evil ,  are all completely different

    as far as lack of creativity eastern animation as much as i loved it growning up has pretty much all been copied in some form form disney or warner brothers since the 60s  there is no varity

     

    oh yea little big planet is eastern art style

    I challenged my reflection to a staring contest....4 days later i won

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,406

    Originally posted by rollen01

    Originally posted by frogi

    Sorry if I made it seem that the visual is the only thing.  But I don't download a game if the screenshots or game footage (not trailers) doesn't appeal to me.  I definitely will not subscribe to a game that doesn't engage me visually.

    To me, it's equal measure.  It could be the greatest game in history, but if it looks silly, ridiculous, or has 16 bit graphics then I don't play.  It could also be the must cinematic, stunning work of art possible -without a  game behind the art, don't waste my time.

    But the art is the first thing you see.

    I just don't understand how a person could do that. I would much rather play something that is fun then visually great. Now if something came along that built on that fun and was visually better then I would switch in a heart beat. But I don't understand how people who know that a game is better yet pay for something at the same price just for the graphics. It's like if I had the choice between painting my own crappy drawing and enjoy it with friends or just pay a guy money for showing me his painting. Both cost same one is less engaging and entertaining then the other.

     

    That might have been the worst comparison ever but I'm starting to run low on juice here so I'm just gonna leave it at that. Like usual I don't understand why people do what they do and is probably why I won't be a billionare in my life time.

    I could easily do that.

    I think you don't understand it because you might not be a very visual person?

    I don't care if a game is the most fun thing that ever graced the planet. If the visuals don't inspire me or agree with me I won't play it.

    That is because I, and others I imagine, are wired in such a way that our experience is partially informed by what we see.

    It's how we are wired, there is no getting around it. Nor would we want to.

  • HokieHokie Member UncommonPosts: 1,063

    A few of my problems with eastern-style games.

    The big-eyed preteen looking females. WTF, really.

    Or the effeminate male toons. You know the ones you have to actually look at their chest to see if they have tits or not, so you can tell the male from female.

    Or the ridiculous combat animations. Sorry I just cant stand the constant zipping, jumping, back-flipping, darting around hi-ya style of combat.

    And then theres the stupidly big f**king weapons...I really hate the stupid big f**king weapons. And yes I hate that WoW decided to emmulate that piece of eastern art style. (It went from big, to stupid big for WoW's armor and weapons per each expansion, bleh)

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

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