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New system or Upgrade? Help.

KanesterKanester Member UncommonPosts: 375

Hi Guys and Gals.

My current system doesn't run games the way I would like it to. At the moment Im not playing much but am waiting for a few games coming soon (Not soon enough).

Im waiting for APB, SW, Black Prophecy, GW2 etc and would like to run them on pretty high settings.

So, Do i need a new system or can my current system be put to good use? I've lost touch over the last few years of all the new hardware coming out, ATM I am running:

Intel core2 Quad cpu @2.40ghz, 3 gig ram, Geforce 9800GT with 450gig hdd. (Vista) I thought the system would run games with ease a few years back but it struggles with most MMO's on high settings.

Where do I go now? Upgrades or new? I was looking at the Alienware Aurora. Any tips would be great.

Thanks in advanced.

Comments

  • huntersamhuntersam Member UncommonPosts: 210

    ok first thing i would suggest is change to win 7 64 bit its far better running games , also try to get 4 gig or more .  i really dont know why you are having trouble with mmo's i use  dual core with 4 gig 9800 gts and win 7 64 and it runs fine . maybe if you post what mmo's you are playing people could come with more specific help .

    on a footnote i run lotr in dx10 with everything on high at 1920x 1080 also i run vanguard as well without problems  .

  • etlaretlar Member UncommonPosts: 807

    Im no expert in hardware, and im sure soneone will post a very technical response :)

    But in my experience, if you want mmos to run on high/max settings, they eat your pc if you dont have more ram, id recommend this:  

    your current cpu is fine, same as mine i think lol. i would recommend 8gigs of ram and a ati 5970 and you will run all your games on max. :)

     

    edit, and as above poster says, get w7 64bit, much better operating system :)

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,546

    Like said get win7 and ram to 4gb get another hard disk of 500 gb and use both of them if your case has enough space and if you want it really all high then change the graphic card to one of the newer ones.

    Also since you didn't mention it if you change your graphic card check if your power supply can support it else you will need to change that one too.


  • KanesterKanester Member UncommonPosts: 375

    Thanks for the quick reply guys.

    I will give windows7 a try and maybe a new Vid card + ram.

  • CatamountCatamount Member Posts: 773

    Hi, Kanester. Welcome to the forums.

    From what I can see, your system is just fine for the most part, and your instinct that it should be running games without an issue was correct as well. What I do see, however, are a few weaknesses.

    First, getting 4GB of RAM would help you out a little, but only if you're using a 64-bit operating system. The fact that your system sees three suggests that you already have 4, but are only running a 32-bit OS. I would figure out which is the case (hopefully you're not running 3GB of physical ram, somehow, AND a 32-bit OS), and then I would go ahead and purchase either a 64-bit copy of Windows 7 Home Premium, or I would snatch another gig of RAM, or if need be, both.

    Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit is about $100 on Newegg for OEM, or about $180 for retail. OEM is just fine unless you intend to build another machine soon anyways. For RAM, if it's needed at all (which, again, I doubt), just grab a 1GB stick of DDR2-800 with 4-4-4 timings, and the system will match your ram up automatically (don't worry about using unlike types; they system will find a common speed to run them at).

     

    Moving to Windows 7 will buy a tangibly noticeable bump in performance anyways. 7 runs as fast as XP in games. In fact, in my own tests, Windows 7 actually BEAT Windows XP by 100 points in 3dmark06, though I count it as a draw given that that's well within the margin of error.

     

    Then last and most important thing is that video card. You should already be playing games at decent settings and getting good framerates. That GPU of yours is very similar in performance to that of my new laptop (Mobility Radeon HD 5730), and that computer will play most games pretty throuroughly maxxed out at the machines admittedly low panel resolution, barring Crysis, which I can only play on high with medium shadows and no AA... but I digress.

    If you're on a budget, get a Radeon HD 5770 for about $150, which should give you a huge boost in performance (a good 60% or more based on 3dmark Vantage GPU scores from Guru3d, and even more if you're playing a DX10.1 or later title). For about $290, you could get a Radeon HD 5850, which would more than double the gaming performance of your machine.

     

    So, you could basically get an OEM copy of Windows 7 Home Premium and a Radeon HD 5850 for $400, which would more than fix any deficiencies in your setup.

  • KanesterKanester Member UncommonPosts: 375

    Thanks for the welcome matey.

    Yep im on the crappy 32bit Vista, I just opened my computer to find I have 4gig of ram but it's only showing up as 3. I will get everything you have listed and see how it goes.

    Thanks again for all your help. :)

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,345

    Any hardware issues you have are most likely not related to the graphics card.  The graphics card is considered mid-range today, but midrange should be able to play all mmos on highest settings no problem.

    The issue is most likely memory since mmos tend to be processor and memory heavy.  Allowing your system to recognize 4GB of ram through a 64-bit OS is probably best.  I recommend Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit.  There could also be a problem with the lack of hypertransport on Core 2 systems, but it shouldn't make a difference.  Your processor should not be a problem since game engines have not adopted an L3 cache model, so the high L2 cache Core 2 processors should be faster in games.

  • CatamountCatamount Member Posts: 773

    MMOs are more graphically intensive than one would think, mostly because many don't cap detail options at realistic levels. Take Age of Conan, for instance, which is not just intensive by MMO standards, but is insanely hard on systems, especially considering the hardware available at the time. When the game came out, I had just gotten my Geforce 8800GTS, and the GTX was the fastest video card on the market (as I recall). Neither could run the game fluently with maxed settings at high resolution. In fact, it wasn't all that hard for me to overwhelm my Radeon HD 4870 with the DX10 client maxed out, and that's about twice as fast!

    When World of Warcraft first game out, I had a friend run the game at a respectable medium for settings at 1280x1024 on a Radeon 9550, pretty much never dropping below the 30-40fps range. Despite that, turning up everything all the way and ramping up the anti-aliasing to 16x MSAA beat the hell out of my Radeon X850PRO, and the Burning Crusade client brought the framerate down to completely unplayable levels (partly why I bought the Geforce 8800). Wrath of the Lich King was so intensive with shadows, that Sholazar Basin brought my 8800gts to its knees when shadows and view distance were set to maximum. Even the Radeon HD 4870 that immediately replaced it could easily be brought down to 20-30fps, and that was the second fastest card on the market at the time (hot on the heels of the $600 Geforce GTX280). In fact, my computer got better framerates out of Crysis on high (but not ultra) with 2xAA than out of the WOTLK client with everything turned up.

    MMOs, by their very nature, can often be insanely hard on a system, so while they're designed so that almost any modern machine can run them decently, if you really are the sort who has to run them with all the eye candy they can possibly display, then a very beefy computer is needed.

  • mudstuckmudstuck Member Posts: 203

    I dont know if this helps or not, but it is related some what, if nothing else just for comparison.

    When LOTRO came out, I was using a P4 3.4 dual core with 2 gigs ddr2, and an 8600gts 256 mg w/ SCSI 15k HD, and it had a hard time above medium settings.

    Later when AOC came out I had a new machine built w/ AMD 6000+, 4 gigs ddr2, 8600gts 512 card, 16mb cache Seagate HD, and it actually ran AOC well at semi high/ medium high , settings, and ran LOTRO beter than the previous machine, on high settings.

    Now I have In E5300 2.6 dual core (the latest one, core duo, architecture) 4 gigs ddr2, ATI 5750 1 gig card, 16 mb cache western digital HD, and it runs Both the above mentioned games very smoothly, on high settings, with no tricks.

    However it runs Battlefield Bad Company2, terrible, on the absollute lowest settings.

    I am guessing, that the new games comming, will be on the order of Bad Company 2, as far as performance requirements, and higher.

    If it were me, I and I have considered this alot, I would make the step to a new system, AM3 phenom or I-5/I-7, the latest or near latest motherboard, with 4 gigs ddr3, or 6 on a triple channel I7, with 2-5750 crossfire, 2-260 gtx SLI, or higher. And I would go to 32 mb cache, or higher, on hard drive, I think loading time will be getting rough, on lower HD's like mine.

    This is just to add for comparisons, of systems from these generations. And is just a guess, from a novice.

    Others have stated from experience about Windows 7 64 bit, and I beleive them, These are the same people who have helped me, get my system to the point where I enjoy LOTRO, finally, and I trust what they say. I am still on Vista 32 bit, and I beleive, that, going to windows 7, will be the only upgrade, viable for my system.

    When, the day comes that I build a new system, the 5750 will go to it, along with another for crossfire, and the windows 7, if I have it by then.

    Welcome

  • pythipythi Member UncommonPosts: 63

    Originally posted by mudstuck

    I dont know if this helps or not, but it is related some what, if nothing else just for comparison.

    When LOTRO came out, I was using a P4 3.4 dual core with 2 gigs ddr2, and an 8600gts 256 mg w/ SCSI 15k HD, and it had a hard time above medium settings.

    Later when AOC came out I had a new machine built w/ AMD 6000+, 4 gigs ddr2, 8600gts 512 card, 16mb cache Seagate HD, and it actually ran AOC well at semi high/ medium high , settings, and ran LOTRO beter than the previous machine, on high settings.

    Now I have In E5300 2.6 dual core (the latest one, core duo, architecture) 4 gigs ddr2, ATI 5750 1 gig card, 16 mb cache western digital HD, and it runs Both the above mentioned games very smoothly, on high settings, with no tricks.

    However it runs Battlefield Bad Company2, terrible, on the absollute lowest settings.

    I am guessing, that the new games comming, will be on the order of Bad Company 2, as far as performance requirements, and higher.

    If it were me, I and I have considered this alot, I would make the step to a new system, AM3 phenom or I-5/I-7, the latest or near latest motherboard, with 4 gigs ddr3, or 6 on a triple channel I7, with 2-5750 crossfire, 2-260 gtx SLI, or higher. And I would go to 32 mb cache, or higher, on hard drive, I think loading time will be getting rough, on lower HD's like mine.

    This is just to add for comparisons, of systems from these generations. And is just a guess, from a novice.

    Others have stated from experience about Windows 7 64 bit, and I beleive them, These are the same people who have helped me, get my system to the point where I enjoy LOTRO, finally, and I trust what they say. I am still on Vista 32 bit, and I beleive, that, going to windows 7, will be the only upgrade, viable for my system.

    When, the day comes that I build a new system, the 5750 will go to it, along with another for crossfire, and the windows 7, if I have it by then.

    Welcome

    This isn't really wholey devoted to the original post but here goes, to the original post I basicly have the same setup as you with an ATI equlivent card at the moment and more ram, however the ram is not going to experiance a type of diminishing returns after 3-4 GB. I run every game I have ever seen on high to max settings, exception is crysis, that is because my PSU is starting to degrade to the point is doesn't provide enough power. The first thing I would do is some maintenance to your system first, update drivers, clean out programs you no longer use, free up space and so on. If you're still experiencing, bad preformance I would recommend, upgraded video card of either brand, and a OS upgrade just for the fun of it. (W7 is great, used vista for about 3 weeks total before I reverted back to xp then W7)

    For the person I quoted, you should be able to run BC2 fine, I found they have poorly optimized things like AA for the game however, turn down AA to 1x and preformance will increase dramatically.

    Exocide

  • KanesterKanester Member UncommonPosts: 375

    Windows 7 FTW. Installed 64bit today so got an extra gig of ram, that alone feels so much better games are running alot batter, I orderd a Radeon HD 5770 off ebay but the guy sent me a 4670 by mistake, the box was already open, He better take it back.....

     

    Thanks again guys, great help, Going to give Aion another crack now. ;)

  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092

    Like said before, upgrade to Win 7 Ultimate (dunno if the Intel supports 64-bit version) and get more RAM (4Gb minimum) and you should be fine for the coming 2 years.

    The GPU is very good and should be able to handle the games at high settings. I have an 8800GT and that runs LotRo on nearly maxed settings in DX10 on HD. On my old system (Athlon 62 X2 3800 2Gb) is ran fune with the same settings in DX9.

    Personally I think it's funny how people need to have high-end systems to play MMORPGs. Most MMORPGs are not that system heavy compared to single-player games. With a 2007 mid-grade system and some extra RAM and probably a newer GPU (mid to top DX10 card is enough) you can mostly play MMOs on it for a couple of years...

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

    First for mudstuck, BFBC2 really needs a good CPU, preferably quad core, you should OC your E5300 as high as you can for that game :)


    Now for OP.. yes Win7 is better than Vista but it's not $100 better performance wise. Investing $100 in hardware will get much more performance than $100 on the OS switch, so I would stick with Vista and spend $$ on hardware. Vista 32bit keys work for 64 bit as well you just need to get a hold of the Vista x64 DVD. Microsoft will ship it to you for $10 or you can find someplace to download an ISO or borrow a copy. This'll open up your last 1GB of ram for free.


    Your Q6600 is still a good processor, if you find it necessary you can put a good OC on it and stretch its life longer so I wouldn't bother with upgrading that yet, just OC it especially if you upgrade the video card.


    I think the big limitation you have is your video card. The 9800GT has been a workhorse but games coming out are way too much for it. I'm not sure what games you are playing now that your system isn't handling well but these days a 9800GT is barely sufficient. I don't normally recommend the Radeon 5830 but if you can find a great deal on it it might be the perfect match for your current set up while providing a big enough upgrade over your 9800GT to justify.

  • CatamountCatamount Member Posts: 773

    The 5830 is a fast card, it's just that it's in such an ackward price point, that it seems like if you're in for that much, you might as well spring for the 5850, at least imo (that is if a 5770 isn't enough, though it still gives the best bang for your buck of anything, hands down).

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    add 3 gig of proper ram,i dont recall that graphic card but it probably isnt a  problem 

    i thing just adding the ram to a total of 6 gig will be enough .if you still have issue it might be a setting unless 

    1 site you might want to look at before all that just in case you didnt is speedguide.net!dont install patch do all tweak by hand.

    and remember to play mmo smoothly you need at least a minimum of 1mb/second advertised speed.lower then that dont bother with a new computer its a waste of money!make sure you have the latest bios and make sure its set properlly (no out of the box arent set properlly)

    check also if your mobo,cpu and network card support direct cache access if it does(might be hard to find info since some supported it and wasnt advertised by intel.)try to find fan of intel they normally know these things

    with that all out you should have gained a lot of smoothness,remember tho that the more crowded the game is(1000 vs 1000 in wow for exemple the higher upload speed whatever you do to your computer.(yep sad but true!

    have fun in your game

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by Catamount
    The 5830 is a fast card, it's just that it's in such an ackward price point, that it seems like if you're in for that much, you might as well spring for the 5850, at least imo (that is if a 5770 isn't enough, though it still gives the best bang for your buck of anything, hands down).

    Yea but I've seen a couple on sale for $200 lately which isn't a bad price for them relative to the 5770. Thing is, a 5850 probably outclasses his CPU and he won't actually see a difference between the 5830 and 5850 just because his CPU can't push it.


    On the other end, while the 5770 is quite a bit faster than the 9800GT, the 9800GT is still a $90 card so compared to the $160 5770 you are getting about $70 more performance for a $160 investment. So I think it's best to go with something faster than the 5770, but 5850 might be wasted on a Q6600, so 5830 seems like a good card for this situation..

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