Death Knight tanking question

Unknown · May 2010

I've been thinking of giving the game another shot and trying the Lich King content. I'm especially interested in trying a Death Knight tank. It's been a long time since I last played, and I've never really taken a tank character up very far. So I'm worried about just jumping in as a level 55 character and not knowing how to tank. Should I be able to pick up what I need to know at that advanced level, or would it be more recommended to start up a Warrior/Paladin/Druid from level 1 and tank all the stuff up to, say, level 55ish. If so, which of the three other tanking classes would be most useful as a 'training' class?

FolbyOrb · May 2010

If you want to tank you should play either a Warrior or a Paladin.

Death Knights and Druids are not all that effective as tanks in Lich King.

That may change in Cata, but you'd have to find a very patient guild to tank with a DK in Lich King, right now.

eisenryu · May 2010

Tanking on a DK is simple, my friend. 2 golden rules:

1.Dont suck dick.

2. If you can need it, need it.

Now for the tanking guide.

Never, NEVER, dualwield tanking weapons on a DK, no matter how good ppl say it is, its not. And never run anything before helfire ramps.

Outland: Be blood spec. Pop frost presence, make sure you are lvl 60 with Death and Decay (DK concecrate, can be placed whereever you need it to be. Whatever you do, do not let the mobs get out of DnDecay. Tell the other 3 retarded DKs in your party to stop using death and decay, its not good in low lvl dungeons (60-79). Viable for heroics and raids. Use your diseases on target, pestilence the target, blood boil on groups, heart strike on single and double mobs, death strike spam after all that. If your runes look like this (Blood, Blood, Death, Death, Death, Death) charge into the next group like some sort of king kong and spam bloodboil. I promise you wont lose threat if you are following Golden Rule #1.

Bosses: DnDecay, diseases and spam heart strike and death strike.

Northrend: Pretty much the same routine for dungeons up to 80 but this time another factor comes into play, defence rating. Have that around 450 and you should be good.

Do that until lvl 80 and than decide if DK tanking is your cup of tea. Its boring as hell to me. If you still like it msg me for the 80 tanking guide.

eisenryu · May 2010

quote: "If you want to tank you should play either a Warrior or a Paladin.

Death Knights and Druids are not all that effective as tanks in Lich King.

That may change in Cata, but you'd have to find a very patient guild to tank with a DK in Lich King, right now."

Yea... no. If you know how to play both of those are amazing. If you are gonna tank go DK or paladin. I havent seen decent warrior or druid tanks in ages.

Zookz · May 2010

Don't listen to that guy. DK's can tank everything in the game with no trouble. Druids are currently one of the best tanks. It shouldn't take you long to figure out what you're doing in terms of DK tanking. It's essentially DPS'ing in Frost presence (think Warrior defensive stance) that increases the amount of threat, health, and armor you get. Any of the three specs will work for tanking, but there are a few top-tier talents that are essentially must haves.

By the time you are done with the DK starting area you'll be 58 or very close and if you are focused on tanking should start your spec with: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#j0xZhxZ0x

From there the choice is your as to what tree you want to tank with. Go read http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13393670172&sid=1 to get a better idea and understanding of class mechanics.

eisenryu · May 2010

Druids are godly tanks. But you forget 99% of the wow popultaion can be outplayed by trained apes. If you are down for a semichallenge roll druid or War. If you want a easy ride go pally or DK.

Blurr · May 2010

Also you should know that with Cataclysm, they're going to majorly kill (imho) DK tanking. I was a DK tank for a long time and they are every bit as effective as any other tank.

With Cata they're switching it so now Blood is the tank (only) tree and you can't tank in the others at all. So if you want to tank, get used to blood spec.

I was an Unholy tank all throughout WLK, but after hearing they're going to cut the class up, I've hung up my armor and won't be playing WoW again.

FolbyOrb · May 2010

Originally posted by eisenryu
I havent seen decent warrior or druid tanks in ages.

Originally posted by eisenryu

Druids are godly tanks.

You seem like a very reliable source of information.

Morgaren · May 2010

I DW tanked with my DK and did really really good with it. Now I understand some who want to claim that it is gimp and sure we can go round and round for ages. If your starting out, I would suggest a frost spec, seeing as how there are alot more survuvability moves at your disposal, and obliterate does a crap ton of threat in frost presence, and being able to use it without loosing dieseases is nice. if you do DW, make sure you get nerves of steel and threat of thessarian (sp) though, without those two talents DW is most definatly gimp.

main things to remember though, you don't frontload aggro as a dk, so mages and other classes that go balls to the walls dps as soon as a fight starts deserve to die....it's not your fault. but a good way to get a good amount of aggro at the start of a fight is to use icy touch, plague strike, then pestilence to spread the diesease if there are multiple targets, or bloodstrike if single, then lay down DnD, cause by that time all the mobs should be around you. If your playing with friends tell them to not start attacking till they see you drop DnD, then you should be okay, after that just stay alive and dps, casuse your dps equals threat. use your taunts if something gets pulles

Dreathor · May 2010

Originally posted by Sawtooth
. .I'm worried about just jumping in as a level 55 character and not knowing how to tank. Should I be able to pick up what I need to know at that advanced level . .

The Hellfire instances are a doddle to tank (especially when you get Death and Decay at level 60) and should give you a good 'introduction' to tanking.

You shouldn't have any problems at all - just make sure you're in frost presence .

Don't worry about spec or gear for now - your DK will do fine in his blue set tanking the first Outland instances regardless of spec (though I'd recommend Blood for leveling these days).

Dreathor · May 2010

Originally posted by Blurr

I was an Unholy tank all throughout WLK, but after hearing they're going to cut the class up, I've hung up my armor and won't be playing WoW again.

Hey - it's been cut up almost every single patch through WotLK - don't give up now .

FolbyOrb · May 2010

Originally posted by Zookz
Don't listen to that guy. DK's can tank everything in the game with no trouble.

I'm not saying that it can't be done. Hell, I've seen a Hunter "tank" a heroic with a turtle. Does that mean I should tell the OP to take a Hunter? Because it can be done? No.

He's talking about being a newbie tank. My advice? DK is not the way to go. Warrior or Paladin is. Paladin preferably.

eisenryu · May 2010

Originally posted by Morgaren
I DW tanked with my DK and did really really good with it. Now I understand some who want to claim that it is gimp and sure we can go round and round for ages. If your starting out, I would suggest a frost spec, seeing as how there are alot more survuvability moves at your disposal, and obliterate does a crap ton of threat in frost presence, and being able to use it without loosing dieseases is nice. if you do DW, make sure you get nerves of steel and threat of thessarian (sp) though, without those two talents DW is most definatly gimp.

main things to remember though, you don't frontload aggro as a dk, so mages and other classes that go balls to the walls dps as soon as a fight starts deserve to die....it's not your fault. but a good way to get a good amount of aggro at the start of a fight is to use icy touch, plague strike, then pestilence to spread the diesease if there are multiple targets, or bloodstrike if single, then lay down DnD, cause by that time all the mobs should be around you. If your playing with friends tell them to not start attacking till they see you drop DnD, then you should be okay, after that just stay alive and dps, casuse your dps equals threat. use your taunts if something gets pulles

Umm correction, you dont frontload agro IF you are dualwielding. 2h are beast for tanking.

Zookz · May 2010

Originally posted by FolbyOrb

Originally posted by Zookz

Don't listen to that guy. DK's can tank everything in the game with no trouble.

I'm not saying that it can't be done. Hell, I've seen a Hunter "tank" a heroic with a turtle. Does that mean I should tell the OP to take a Hunter? Because it can be done? No.

He's talking about being a newbie tank. My advice? DK is not the way to go. Warrior or Paladin is. Paladin preferably.

Care to give the OP any insight as to why he should not tank as a DK?

Unknown · May 2010

Thanks for the answers everyone. I appreciate the input.

Morgaren · May 2010

Originally posted by eisenryu

Originally posted by Morgaren
I DW tanked with my DK and did really really good with it. Now I understand some who want to claim that it is gimp and sure we can go round and round for ages. If your starting out, I would suggest a frost spec, seeing as how there are alot more survuvability moves at your disposal, and obliterate does a crap ton of threat in frost presence, and being able to use it without loosing dieseases is nice. if you do DW, make sure you get nerves of steel and threat of thessarian (sp) though, without those two talents DW is most definatly gimp.

main things to remember though, you don't frontload aggro as a dk, so mages and other classes that go balls to the walls dps as soon as a fight starts deserve to die....it's not your fault. but a good way to get a good amount of aggro at the start of a fight is to use icy touch, plague strike, then pestilence to spread the diesease if there are multiple targets, or bloodstrike if single, then lay down DnD, cause by that time all the mobs should be around you. If your playing with friends tell them to not start attacking till they see you drop DnD, then you should be okay, after that just stay alive and dps, casuse your dps equals threat. use your taunts if something gets pulles

Umm correction, you dont frontload agro IF you are dualwielding. 2h are beast for tanking.

okay man, I'm sure you have done all the math too, and the difference between the two is white damage only if your specced properly, so your either going to hot slow and hard, or fast and not as hard, and imho being able to hit fast and not as hard will constantly be keeping your threat moving up, and missing will not be as catasrophic, but like I said, this is with white damage only. all special abilities will round out the same, because a frost DW toon applies both weapons stats to special ability damage, not just the main hand. and with the x2.0735 increase to threat in frost presence, it will be much harder to get the initial jump in aggro versus a paladin who gets x2.717 increase in threat when righteous fury is active, and some hard hitting spells with longer cooldowns, so I'm so sorry if I confused as to why dw will not allow a massive amount of threat to be laid down right away (frontloading), and using a 2h will. you will get maybe an additional 700 threat (at level 80) in the first swing of the fight, if it hits, and thats off of white damage. threat that you will get back maybe .75 secs later if your dw.

and true you will miss more often with dw, but its because you attack more often, and once again thats with white damage, it is very easy to get your special abilities hit capped.

FolbyOrb · May 2010

Originally posted by Zookz

Care to give the OP any insight as to why he should not tank as a DK?

I already did and don't really feel like repeating myself.

Frostbite05 · May 2010

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by eisenryu

Originally posted by Morgaren

I DW tanked with my DK and did really really good with it. Now I understand some who want to claim that it is gimp and sure we can go round and round for ages. If your starting out, I would suggest a frost spec, seeing as how there are alot more survuvability moves at your disposal, and obliterate does a crap ton of threat in frost presence, and being able to use it without loosing dieseases is nice. if you do DW, make sure you get nerves of steel and threat of thessarian (sp) though, without those two talents DW is most definatly gimp.

main things to remember though, you don't frontload aggro as a dk, so mages and other classes that go balls to the walls dps as soon as a fight starts deserve to die....it's not your fault. but a good way to get a good amount of aggro at the start of a fight is to use icy touch, plague strike, then pestilence to spread the diesease if there are multiple targets, or bloodstrike if single, then lay down DnD, cause by that time all the mobs should be around you. If your playing with friends tell them to not start attacking till they see you drop DnD, then you should be okay, after that just stay alive and dps, casuse your dps equals threat. use your taunts if something gets pulles

Umm correction, you dont frontload agro IF you are dualwielding. 2h are beast for tanking.

okay man, I'm sure you have done all the math too, and the difference between the two is white damage only if your specced properly, so your either going to hot slow and hard, or fast and not as hard, and imho being able to hit fast and not as hard will constantly be keeping your threat moving up, and missing will not be as catasrophic, but like I said, this is with white damage only. all special abilities will round out the same, because a frost DW toon applies both weapons stats to special ability damage, not just the main hand. and with the x2.0735 increase to threat in frost presence, it will be much harder to get the initial jump in aggro versus a paladin who gets x2.717 increase in threat when righteous fury is active, and some hard hitting spells with longer cooldowns, so I'm so sorry if I confused as to why dw will not allow a massive amount of threat to be laid down right away (frontloading), and using a 2h will. you will get maybe an additional 700 threat (at level 80) in the first swing of the fight, if it hits, and thats off of white damage. threat that you will get back maybe .75 secs later if your dw.

and true you will miss more often with dw, but its because you attack more often, and once again thats with white damage, it is very easy to get your special abilities hit capped.

Actually the difference is the fact that dw causes the bosses to parry a ton more thus giving them the haste buff thus causing you to take twice the amount of damage that a 2h tank would. DW is inferior to 2h blood. All the top guilds that have dk tanks will say the same thing.

Morgaren · May 2010

thought thats what expertise was for

eisenryu · May 2010

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by eisenryu

Originally posted by Morgaren

I DW tanked with my DK and did really really good with it. Now I understand some who want to claim that it is gimp and sure we can go round and round for ages. If your starting out, I would suggest a frost spec, seeing as how there are alot more survuvability moves at your disposal, and obliterate does a crap ton of threat in frost presence, and being able to use it without loosing dieseases is nice. if you do DW, make sure you get nerves of steel and threat of thessarian (sp) though, without those two talents DW is most definatly gimp.

main things to remember though, you don't frontload aggro as a dk, so mages and other classes that go balls to the walls dps as soon as a fight starts deserve to die....it's not your fault. but a good way to get a good amount of aggro at the start of a fight is to use icy touch, plague strike, then pestilence to spread the diesease if there are multiple targets, or bloodstrike if single, then lay down DnD, cause by that time all the mobs should be around you. If your playing with friends tell them to not start attacking till they see you drop DnD, then you should be okay, after that just stay alive and dps, casuse your dps equals threat. use your taunts if something gets pulles

Umm correction, you dont frontload agro IF you are dualwielding. 2h are beast for tanking.

okay man, I'm sure you have done all the math too, and the difference between the two is white damage only if your specced properly, so your either going to hot slow and hard, or fast and not as hard, and imho being able to hit fast and not as hard will constantly be keeping your threat moving up, and missing will not be as catasrophic, but like I said, this is with white damage only. all special abilities will round out the same, because a frost DW toon applies both weapons stats to special ability damage, not just the main hand. and with the x2.0735 increase to threat in frost presence, it will be much harder to get the initial jump in aggro versus a paladin who gets x2.717 increase in threat when righteous fury is active, and some hard hitting spells with longer cooldowns, so I'm so sorry if I confused as to why dw will not allow a massive amount of threat to be laid down right away (frontloading), and using a 2h will. you will get maybe an additional 700 threat (at level 80) in the first swing of the fight, if it hits, and thats off of white damage. threat that you will get back maybe .75 secs later if your dw.

and true you will miss more often with dw, but its because you attack more often, and once again thats with white damage, it is very easy to get your special abilities hit capped.

Ok let me correct myself, Dualwield is only good for frost but make sure you spec into Threat of Thassarian. And you want DPS weapons, not tanking. Your runes will provide that for you.

Dreathor · May 2010

Originally posted by Morgaren
thought thats what expertise was for

Yeah - but you can't realistically get so much of it that you won't be parried any more.

DW isn't too bad some of the time - but it really isn't the best choice at the moment.

Zookz · May 2010

Originally posted by FolbyOrb

Originally posted by Zookz

Care to give the OP any insight as to why he should not tank as a DK?

I already did and don't really feel like repeating myself.

You essentially told us DK's suck in their current state and gave us no information as to why or what mechanics would cause the discrepancy.

FolbyOrb · May 2010

Originally posted by Zookz

You essentially told us DK's suck in their current state and gave us no information as to why or what mechanics would cause the discrepancy.

Putting words into my mouth in an attempt to win = you fail.

I never said "DK's suck in their current state." I just said they are not effective tanks in Lich King. That's my experience. I've rarely seen a DK tank in PUGs I've run. I've never seen any of my guilds suggest, "Ooo, the DK should be our tank."

I said the OP would have to find a patient guild to work with if he wants to tank as a DK.

Look at this thread already. Should he be Frost spec? Should he be Blood spec? Should he DW? Should he 2H?

Warrior or Paladin it's simple: Get sword and board, go Prot spec. Tank face.

Can you tank as a DK? Yes. Should a newbie tank as a DK? My advice is still no. Go Warrior or Paladin.

catlana · May 2010

DKs can make excellant tanks indeed some of the very best tanks in game(see Premonition, Method, etc). Still it is much harder to get started as a DK tank (DKs are seriously overpopulated). Second, DK mechanics lend themselves towards raid abilities not heroic 5 mans. As block gets higher, block makes 5 man heroics a joke. You will need to run tons of 5 mans to gear up btw.

Blurr · May 2010

DKs can tank fine. I would say though, if you haven't been tanking with a character from very early on, it can be a steep learning curve. The problem with most bad DK tanks is that they played something like a hunter or mage, and then decided "Oh, I can make a lvl 55 DK and just start tanking!". This is not a good idea, because you don't have the skills to go with it, and jumping in at 55 doesn't give you enough time to learn.

Of course, I realize this is more or less what the OP wants to do. That's fine, just be forewarned that you need to learn how to tank before you can be a tank. I highly recommend running up a warrior or paladin up to 55 before you switch over, but failing that, make sure you spec and play as a tank from minute 1 while you level. Don't quest as a DPS and switch only when you want to do instances, you need to spend the time with the spec to get used to it.

As far as DKs being messed about since day one, yeah, they really have always felt like an "experiment" class rather than a hero class. Now they're being turned into just another plain old watered-down class. (They're even giving away the DK mount as loot now! 0_o ) Sorry Blizz but you screwed up giving control to the B-team, it's nice that you had fun experimenting with the class but you've ruined it for those of us who really enjoyed them.

Edit: Oh I should also say, DKs have no problem being tanks in any capacity. I was the main tank for my guild through all progression content and I never had problems with 5-mans that weren't caused by one of the other 4. The trick is just to really learn and know the class, don't just follow a cookie-cutter build and assume you'll do well.

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