BoP is a mechanic put in to facilitate the gear grind. Force players to run the same dungeon dozens of times to get the gear they want, then move on to the next grind.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
BoP is a mechanic put in to facilitate the gear grind. Force players to run the same dungeon dozens of times to get the gear they want, then move on to the next grind.
Yup. It's a band aid game mechanic fix for a much larger problem. Like most of WoW's "features" (well, EverQuest's features pretty much). Just like instancing.
Better designed games like Dark Age of Camelot needed neither instanced raids, nor BoP, and it was NEVER a problem.
Sigh it blows my mind the threads that pop up especially when it comes to this game. BoP is for countering RMT but its not just that. There were no trade items in EQ long long ago before this game was even a thought. And it wasnt just for RMT but for the people who have the best to have actually acquired it the real way. So the whole concept of BoP was around long before this game even exisisted. If everything was tradeable 90% of the community for these games wouldnt even experience the content get bored and cancel their accounts so quickly it would be retarded. All your most valuable items in games are this way so that there is no real work around to get them. Some people like the feeling of accomplishment which based off this post I can tell has long since been gone on the community of this game
Well, saying that the concept existed before WoW is kind of stupid. The entire concept of WoW and everything in it existed long before WoW. WoW never did anything new.
As for "everyone would leave without BoP" did it ever occur to you that maybe a game's sole pull shouldn't be gear grinding? Maybe if there was actually something fun to do in the game, people wouldn't quick if they could trade gear?
I get the point about RMT and gold sellers, I guess what I was really saying with this thread is that the thrill of logging in to check the Auction House is sort of gone. No doubt due to BOP implemented because of gold sellers.
Early WOW, I used to log in all the time to see what new cool items were in AH. Not anymore, at least not at level 80.
Up to 80, I definitely check the AH for gear; after 80, not so much. Once my character hits 80, the majority of my gear comes from instances. That said I do check for other items, like gems, enchants, consumables, and other random items.
On a side note, I do enjoy 'playing the AH' as well.
To the topic, I don't see anything particularily wrong with BOP items in themeparks (key word there). BOP items do add another element to instances, and seemingly reduce unofficial RMT.
I get the point about RMT and gold sellers, I guess what I was really saying with this thread is that the thrill of logging in to check the Auction House is sort of gone. No doubt due to BOP implemented because of gold sellers.
Early WOW, I used to log in all the time to see what new cool items were in AH. Not anymore, at least not at level 80.
Ok I see your point. Sorry for my earlier misunderstand and comments.
Yeah true, AH has lost some of its importance, it means there are more forms of gameplay than just playing the AH.
BOP has one nice positive when you consider how many alts people seem to have in WoW. If there was no BOP everyone would be trying to win every item that droped in an effort to use it on one of their alts, or has been mentioned just sold on the AH. Without BOP everything in WoW would just be bought with gold and then all sense of achievement for getting gear would be ruined and with that the carrot would be gone from the game.
BOP has one nice positive when you consider how many alts people seem to have in WoW. If there was no BOP everyone would be trying to win every item that droped in an effort to use it on one of their alts, or has been mentioned just sold on the AH. Without BOP everything in WoW would just be bought with gold and then all sense of achievement for getting gear would be ruined and with that the carrot would be gone from the game.
In EQ most gear, except those from the Planes, were BoE. It does not end up so bad. Maybe, because of the super low drop rates. Back in the days.
BOP has one nice positive when you consider how many alts people seem to have in WoW. If there was no BOP everyone would be trying to win every item that droped in an effort to use it on one of their alts, or has been mentioned just sold on the AH. Without BOP everything in WoW would just be bought with gold and then all sense of achievement for getting gear would be ruined and with that the carrot would be gone from the game.
"achievement for getting gear'? When you can be run through dungeons without doing anything?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't particularly care for it, personally. I'm all for hurting illegal RMT, but it takes a small sense of realism out fo the game for me. Not that the game is anywhere near realistic, just saying.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It makes me really sad for the MMO industry that people sit here, scratch their heads, and think about ways to solve problems that were already solved 8 years ago by well designed games. I thought we had moved past such primitive band aids like BoP and BoE, but WoW really has dragged us into a Dark Age where we've lost all our old knowledge and are starting up from the mechanics of EQ1 all over again (minus the innovation and social interaction)
If someone designed their game where raids were done for fun, instead of the primary and ONLY means of character advancement, and put in a proper level/con system for weapons, you have no need for BoP or BoE.
In DAoC, a lower level character could be given a level 50 raid weapon, but it would be such a high level that it would a) not be nearly as effective, in fact it would probably be worse than a well crafted weapon equal to the players level, and b) it's condition would degrade insanely quickly, and you'd have to repair it constantly (and then it'd break). The only real point of doing this was to pull it out to look cool, then switch to your normal weapon.
Originally posted by pencilrick I get the point about RMT and gold sellers, I guess what I was really saying with this thread is that the thrill of logging in to check the Auction House is sort of gone. No doubt due to BOP implemented because of gold sellers. Early WOW, I used to log in all the time to see what new cool items were in AH. Not anymore, at least not at level 80.
If there is a 40 lvl BOE item and you are able to use it, you most likely will, if not, you place it on market for sale.
Now, if you remove the BOE and make the item free to trade, you will put the item on the market as soon as you find a replacement. Not only you will do but anyone else leveling up. That means, there will be more items floating around and because you want to sell your item, you will try to underprice other sellers since there will be so many.
While you still level up, it is fine but it is an issue once you stop leveling. You do not replace your gear as often thus item faucet becomes really important now otherwise the situation described above would repeat - too many items for sale.
It has nothing to do with RMT nor gold sellers...it is simply needed for the game to hold together.
It makes me really sad for the MMO industry that people sit here, scratch their heads, and think about ways to solve problems that were already solved 8 years ago by well designed games. I thought we had moved past such primitive band aids like BoP and BoE, but WoW really has dragged us into a Dark Age where we've lost all our old knowledge and are starting up from the mechanics of EQ1 all over again (minus the innovation and social interaction)
If someone designed their game where raids were done for fun, instead of the primary and ONLY means of character advancement, and put in a proper level/con system for weapons, you have no need for BoP or BoE.
In DAoC, a lower level character could be given a level 50 raid weapon, but it would be such a high level that it would a) not be nearly as effective, in fact it would probably be worse than a well crafted weapon equal to the players level, and b) it's condition would degrade insanely quickly, and you'd have to repair it constantly (and then it'd break). The only real point of doing this was to pull it out to look cool, then switch to your normal weapon.
Very true, DAoC is a game that, in its days are very unique in big ways and small ways. The best game ever in my gaming years.
DAoC, however, is not a game of gears. It is a game of RvR, and eventually a game of zergs. It does not matter what gear you have, not that much. So long as your side hits at the right time and right place, together, coordinated, a totally naked player can still gain a lot of kill, leech, you can say. Just by being there.
So while you can say that DAoC fixed that issue, you can also say DAoC dodges the whole issue of gearing altogether.
Comments
BoP is a mechanic put in to facilitate the gear grind. Force players to run the same dungeon dozens of times to get the gear they want, then move on to the next grind.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yup. It's a band aid game mechanic fix for a much larger problem. Like most of WoW's "features" (well, EverQuest's features pretty much). Just like instancing.
Better designed games like Dark Age of Camelot needed neither instanced raids, nor BoP, and it was NEVER a problem.
Well, saying that the concept existed before WoW is kind of stupid. The entire concept of WoW and everything in it existed long before WoW. WoW never did anything new.
As for "everyone would leave without BoP" did it ever occur to you that maybe a game's sole pull shouldn't be gear grinding? Maybe if there was actually something fun to do in the game, people wouldn't quick if they could trade gear?
Up to 80, I definitely check the AH for gear; after 80, not so much. Once my character hits 80, the majority of my gear comes from instances. That said I do check for other items, like gems, enchants, consumables, and other random items.
On a side note, I do enjoy 'playing the AH' as well.
To the topic, I don't see anything particularily wrong with BOP items in themeparks (key word there). BOP items do add another element to instances, and seemingly reduce unofficial RMT.
Ok I see your point. Sorry for my earlier misunderstand and comments.
Yeah true, AH has lost some of its importance, it means there are more forms of gameplay than just playing the AH.
BOP has one nice positive when you consider how many alts people seem to have in WoW. If there was no BOP everyone would be trying to win every item that droped in an effort to use it on one of their alts, or has been mentioned just sold on the AH. Without BOP everything in WoW would just be bought with gold and then all sense of achievement for getting gear would be ruined and with that the carrot would be gone from the game.
In EQ most gear, except those from the Planes, were BoE. It does not end up so bad. Maybe, because of the super low drop rates. Back in the days.
"achievement for getting gear'? When you can be run through dungeons without doing anything?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't particularly care for it, personally. I'm all for hurting illegal RMT, but it takes a small sense of realism out fo the game for me. Not that the game is anywhere near realistic, just saying.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It makes me really sad for the MMO industry that people sit here, scratch their heads, and think about ways to solve problems that were already solved 8 years ago by well designed games. I thought we had moved past such primitive band aids like BoP and BoE, but WoW really has dragged us into a Dark Age where we've lost all our old knowledge and are starting up from the mechanics of EQ1 all over again (minus the innovation and social interaction)
If someone designed their game where raids were done for fun, instead of the primary and ONLY means of character advancement, and put in a proper level/con system for weapons, you have no need for BoP or BoE.
In DAoC, a lower level character could be given a level 50 raid weapon, but it would be such a high level that it would a) not be nearly as effective, in fact it would probably be worse than a well crafted weapon equal to the players level, and b) it's condition would degrade insanely quickly, and you'd have to repair it constantly (and then it'd break). The only real point of doing this was to pull it out to look cool, then switch to your normal weapon.
If there is a 40 lvl BOE item and you are able to use it, you most likely will, if not, you place it on market for sale.
Now, if you remove the BOE and make the item free to trade, you will put the item on the market as soon as you find a replacement. Not only you will do but anyone else leveling up. That means, there will be more items floating around and because you want to sell your item, you will try to underprice other sellers since there will be so many.
While you still level up, it is fine but it is an issue once you stop leveling. You do not replace your gear as often thus item faucet becomes really important now otherwise the situation described above would repeat - too many items for sale.
It has nothing to do with RMT nor gold sellers...it is simply needed for the game to hold together.
Very true, DAoC is a game that, in its days are very unique in big ways and small ways. The best game ever in my gaming years.
DAoC, however, is not a game of gears. It is a game of RvR, and eventually a game of zergs. It does not matter what gear you have, not that much. So long as your side hits at the right time and right place, together, coordinated, a totally naked player can still gain a lot of kill, leech, you can say. Just by being there.
So while you can say that DAoC fixed that issue, you can also say DAoC dodges the whole issue of gearing altogether.