Any performance dissatisfaction after Dominion expansion release is not legitimate because it is the players doing something wrong and crash the nodes that were stable under the same load pre Dominion and claiming for same performance they were paying for pre Dominion only makes them 'a bunch of whiney ungrateful tools' because EVE Online, even though admittedly broken, could be broken even more and to meet other games on the market supposedly not reaching the quality of the broken EVE Online game which has no relevance to the performance issue at all.
But of course! It's so much easier to dismiss criticism if you just label it as whining!
No one is criticising the complaint or concern, we're dismissing the over the top whines and demands of an ungrateful whiney loudmouth.
Lordmonkus, i don't care how much you try to distract from the simple fact that people are pissed about the performance degradation since Dominion.
All the advancements CCP made up until Dominion were undone and people are unhappy about it. You labeling them as whiners just makes you look really, really dumb.
I am distracting from nothing, actually you keep distracting.
I agreed server performance took a hit. CCP acknowledges and is doing what they can to fix it. Do you not think for a second that CCP really wants to have 1000 person fleet battles run smoothly ? Of course they do, they play game and want to enjoy it just as much as you but there are limitations to what they can do as human beings.
It's one thing to say something like "I really wish they would fix the server problems of large scale fleet PvP, CCP what are you doing to fix this ?"
Just like it's a whole other things to say something like "WTF CCP you suck and your game is fail, we used to have over 1000 people in fleet battles now we can only have 600, QUICK EVERYONE BOYCOTT this stupid sucky game"
There is a line there and the whiners are in fact crossing it. If you can't see the difference between a legit beef and a whine then I can't help you out. If labeling whiner as a whiner makes me look dumb then what does that make the whiners ?
all ppl know that CCP made changes on the grid way fo loading stuff its takes time until they optimize that, it has little to do whit PC specs or network ping
Uhh yeah this game just sucks in general. Tried playing and all I did was put my thing on auto-pilot for like 5 hours to go deliver some crates while I watched TV. Then I got on and my ship had been destroyed by pirates or some shit, so the game was already over for me. Yaaay!
What other game offers what we got in Eve already ?
There exist no similar mix of features in the MMO market at the moment.
What other game out there offers the complexity of game design combined with AAA title quality graphics and polish and large scale pvp ?
Eve is not any more complex than any other game I've seen nor is it certainly of AAA quality. You have probably seen so many MMOs that have had many bugs and bad launches that you take them for granted. Fact is, even when majority of MMOs do have problems and they certainlly are of questionable quality, it doesn't make it OK. There are only two launches in MMO history that can be called smooth, I hear, with Final Fantasy XI and Guild Wars. I personally was witnessing the latter. Even WoW's launch had mediocre to serious server stability issues, balance issues and whatnot. What WoW did however is that they continued to polish the game after launch. Look where it is now: Deemed the most polished MMO ever. Same thing cannot be said about Eve especially in the light of recent development.
Graphics are already dated but that can't be helped. I use nHancer and other software to boost Eve's graphics.
Scale of the PvP is large, that much is given, but it is another matter altogether if more players = more fun.
It always depends on your previous experiences. For example for me, it is pretty hard to surpass the bug fixing speed and ease of patching of Guild Wars. During one of the beta weekends, I made a bug report that I could get inside the map in a certain area. It was essentially just typing /bug to the chat and writing a short description. Twenty minutes later, while I was still playing, the game informed that a new version of the game has been released and to play it it is only a matter of relogging.
The game had already patched itself while I was playing! I immediately went back to see if I could get inside the map again and to my delight the bug had been fixed. In twenty minutes! No downtime, no separate downloading or patching. It is pretty hard for any game to top that experience. That is how Guild Wars handled bugs and balance issues were addressed weekly, not every six months or so like in Eve.
Every other game that comes after that I know that what "could be" and I can measure those to the bug fixing, patching and balancing in the light of my experiences in GW. Point is that you can always measure the current state of the game (or the game you're currently playing) to your previous experiences. What Eve is now, is worse than it is before and every whine is well deserved.
I really just don't know where to begin with whats wrong with this post, it's so full of BS I shouldn't even try.
Eve is not more complex than any other game out there you say. Really, did you say that with a straight face ?
Eve is not a AAA title ? Again did you really say that with a straight face ? I have a hard time believing you on this if you say yes.
Then you start talking about launches and stability issues of other games, what that has to do with anything I have no idea.
You say Eves graphics are dated. Again are you being serious here ? Eves graphics are more than above par for MMOs, if you are comparing to single player games then I see where the problem is here.
You then move on to comparing Guild Wars bug fix to Eve and CCP. In your mind you think because Guild Wars fixed a simple map glitch CCP should be able to fix something as complex as a server handling fleet numbers nearing 1000 people in the same spot. Really I would love to see Guild Wars performance if it could even handle 1000 people fighting it out in one spot, actually I would like to see Guild Wars even do 100 vs 100. I would guess it would probably be about the same as in WoW in Wintergrasp when you get max people on both sides at the keep, which is to say you can move somewhat and then the game loads in the 100 people around you fighting and then you die. Same as Eve only with far less people.
You did answer my first question though atleast and that is the fact there is no other game out there that combines complex game play with AAA graphics / game design and large scale PvP in one package. Many others out there might be able to handle 2 of those things but the 3rd is always left out.
all ppl know that CCP made changes on the grid way fo loading stuff its takes time until they optimize that, it has little to do whit PC specs or network ping
this^
they revamped a system thats been in place for years, its gonna take a bit before its optimized, hell it was still only released 5 months ago. I find it ironic how people say "i cant believe i'm paying for a game with so many blackscreens" when we've gotten, what over 10 expansions? For free...
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Originally posted by Rambo621 Tried playing and all I did was put my thing on auto-pilot for like 5 hours to go deliver some crates while I watched TV. Then I got on and my ship had been destroyed by pirates or some shit, so the game was already over for me. Yaaay!
on this test there are not many player because there is no point of doing that apart from helping CCP, like i said many times CCP should reward the ppl that help on this tests, a points based system wont hurt and if there is some kind of decoration made issued by CCP alliance for this player on TQ will be awesome. Virtual items wont cost CCP any money and ppl can brag about their participation on mass tests
Go help with the testing this weekend and on the 29th. Not sure what people realistically expect beyond this.
on this test there are not many player because there is no point of doing that apart from helping CCP, like i said many times CCP should reward the ppl that help on this tests, a points based system wont hurt and if there is some kind of decoration made issued by CCP alliance for this player on TQ will be awesome. Virtual items wont cost CCP any money and ppl can brag about their participation on mass tests
Agreed.
I wish the people playing Eve could see how much this game is community driven (and not the whiner side of it either). This game really would have been dead and buried a year after launch if it didn't have the community it has. CCP aren't just a bunch of faceless boardroom twits trying to make a game to maximize profits. CCP actually plays this game with the players and they want it working as intended just as much as the rest of us.
Also CCP does indeed reward some volunteer work, it may not be overly common place or put out for everyone to see but they do reward people. A friend of mine had his account for free because of all the work he did with testing and feedback back in beta, volunteer for the STAR new player help program and they will give you your account for free (or atleast they did for me when I did it 3 years ago).
Uhh yeah this game just sucks in general. Tried playing and all I did was put my thing on auto-pilot for like 5 hours to go deliver some crates while I watched TV. Then I got on and my ship had been destroyed by pirates or some shit, so the game was already over for me. Yaaay!
Shhh....grown-ups are having a discussion here.
No doubt, large scale fleet combat has suffered since Dominion was released, and while EVE is miles (ok Light years) ahead of other MMO's, no one can be happy that they've regressed so quickly after they had resolved it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I really just don't know where to begin with whats wrong with this post, it's so full of BS I shouldn't even try.
Eve is not more complex than any other game out there you say. Really, did you say that with a straight face ? Yes. I did. There are many things you can do in Eve but most of them are quite simple.
Eve is not a AAA title ? Again did you really say that with a straight face ? I have a hard time believing you on this if you say yes. Again, yes. You have to deal with bugs every time you play, most of them are minor, but they are plentiful. And the controls and UI are far from what one might call "sharp". My bar is quite high with an AAA title, yours seems to be quite low.
Then you start talking about launches and stability issues of other games, what that has to do with anything I have no idea.
You say Eves graphics are dated. Again are you being serious here ? Eves graphics are more than above par for MMOs, if you are comparing to single player games then I see where the problem is here. No-one will pat your back if you're the smartest guy in Retarded-ville. You're still a retard. And in case you miss my meaning: Eve=the guy and Retarded-ville=MMO scene.
You then move on to comparing Guild Wars bug fix to Eve and CCP. In your mind you think because Guild Wars fixed a simple map glitch CCP should be able to fix something as complex as a server handling fleet numbers nearing 1000 people in the same spot. Really I would love to see Guild Wars performance if it could even handle 1000 people fighting it out in one spot, actually I would like to see Guild Wars even do 100 vs 100. I would guess it would probably be about the same as in WoW in Wintergrasp when you get max people on both sides at the keep, which is to say you can move somewhat and then the game loads in the 100 people around you fighting and then you die. Same as Eve only with far less people.
Nice try but if you had any sense you'd know that GW was designed for small scale combat because it is more tactical. And tactical in Arenanet's mind is fun. The engine was designed this fact in mind. Pick any game and the more players you put on a server the less sharper the game is. Case and point: Battlefield is sluggish compared to Counter-Strike. Eve was designed for large scale combat and the engine is built for that. Therefore it is more sluggish in small fleet warfare but can shine in larger battles. You can't have everything.
You did answer my first question though atleast and that is the fact there is no other game out there that combines complex game play with AAA graphics / game design and large scale PvP in one package. Many others out there might be able to handle 2 of those things but the 3rd is always left out.
Any other game can do this aswell since even Eve doesn't have everything and in the very least some other game does it better.
The point of all my previous post was that your previous experiences in games raise your bar and expectations and once you get something better you don't want to go back. The GW example was given because it shows how good patching and launch can be. If other games following that come far behind - it feels like they failed. This is same with the now-smaller fleet sizes in Eve. People are rightfully pissed.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I really just don't know where to begin with whats wrong with this post, it's so full of BS I shouldn't even try.
Eve is not more complex than any other game out there you say. Really, did you say that with a straight face ? Yes. I did. There are many things you can do in Eve but most of them are quite simple.
The overall package is far more complex.
Eve is not a AAA title ? Again did you really say that with a straight face ? I have a hard time believing you on this if you say yes. Again, yes. You have to deal with bugs every time you play, most of them are minor, but they are plentiful. And the controls and UI are far from what one might call "sharp". My bar is quite high with an AAA title, yours seems to be quite low.
You have to deal bugs in every mmo. Your personal downgrade opinion of Eve does not change the fact that it is a AAA title by industry standards.
Then you start talking about launches and stability issues of other games, what that has to do with anything I have no idea.
You say Eves graphics are dated. Again are you being serious here ? Eves graphics are more than above par for MMOs, if you are comparing to single player games then I see where the problem is here. No-one will pat your back if you're the smartest guy in Retarded-ville. You're still a retard. And in case you miss my meaning: Eve=the guy and Retarded-ville=MMO scene.
Again your personal downagrade opinion of Eve does not change the fact that its graphics are indeed at or far above industry standards. It's just very difficult to compare the graphics of a space game to a land based game with lots of scenery.
You then move on to comparing Guild Wars bug fix to Eve and CCP. In your mind you think because Guild Wars fixed a simple map glitch CCP should be able to fix something as complex as a server handling fleet numbers nearing 1000 people in the same spot. Really I would love to see Guild Wars performance if it could even handle 1000 people fighting it out in one spot, actually I would like to see Guild Wars even do 100 vs 100. I would guess it would probably be about the same as in WoW in Wintergrasp when you get max people on both sides at the keep, which is to say you can move somewhat and then the game loads in the 100 people around you fighting and then you die. Same as Eve only with far less people.
Nice try but if you had any sense you'd know that GW was designed for small scale combat because it is more tactical. And tactical in Arenanet's mind is fun. The engine was designed this fact in mind. Pick any game and the more players you put on a server the less sharper the game is. Case and point: Battlefield is sluggish compared to Counter-Strike. Eve was designed for large scale combat and the engine is built for that. Therefore it is more sluggish in small fleet warfare but can shine in larger battles. You can't have everything.
I guess you miss the point that Eve and GW are completely uncomparable.
You did answer my first question though atleast and that is the fact there is no other game out there that combines complex game play with AAA graphics / game design and large scale PvP in one package. Many others out there might be able to handle 2 of those things but the 3rd is always left out.
Any other game can do this aswell since even Eve doesn't have everything and in the very least some other game does it better.
Yup there are lots of games out there that do 1 or 2 of the 3 things better than CCP but still none of them do all 3 at all. They don't even try, maybe you should start interviewing the game devs out there to find out why.
The point of all my previous post was that your previous experiences in games raise your bar and expectations and once you get something better you don't want to go back. The GW example was given because it shows how good patching and launch can be. If other games following that come far behind - it feels like they failed. This is same with the now-smaller fleet sizes in Eve. People are rightfully pissed.
And my point is that you are talking a whole lot without actually saying anything of any significance which is pretty much par for you on these forums, your personal vendetta and trolling against Eve is there for people to check out.
Now for the only thing you had to say that has any value here is "People are rightfully pissed"
I will agree that people have the right to be pissed or upset or whatever they wanna call it all they want but that does not mean they have the right to run around whining and crying calling CCP names and accusing them of false advertisement. What they do have the right to do is cancel their account and go play something else. What they do the right to do is call or email CCP with their complaints. What they do have the right to do is to go on the test server and help them out.
I really just don't know where to begin with whats wrong with this post, it's so full of BS I shouldn't even try.
Eve is not more complex than any other game out there you say. Really, did you say that with a straight face ? Yes. I did. There are many things you can do in Eve but most of them are quite simple.
The overall package is far more complex.
Eve is not a AAA title ? Again did you really say that with a straight face ? I have a hard time believing you on this if you say yes. Again, yes. You have to deal with bugs every time you play, most of them are minor, but they are plentiful. And the controls and UI are far from what one might call "sharp". My bar is quite high with an AAA title, yours seems to be quite low.
You have to deal bugs in every mmo. Your personal downgrade opinion of Eve does not change the fact that it is a AAA title by industry standards.
Then you start talking about launches and stability issues of other games, what that has to do with anything I have no idea.
You say Eves graphics are dated. Again are you being serious here ? Eves graphics are more than above par for MMOs, if you are comparing to single player games then I see where the problem is here. No-one will pat your back if you're the smartest guy in Retarded-ville. You're still a retard. And in case you miss my meaning: Eve=the guy and Retarded-ville=MMO scene.
Again your personal downagrade opinion of Eve does not change the fact that its graphics are indeed at or far above industry standards. It's just very difficult to compare the graphics of a space game to a land based game with lots of scenery.
You then move on to comparing Guild Wars bug fix to Eve and CCP. In your mind you think because Guild Wars fixed a simple map glitch CCP should be able to fix something as complex as a server handling fleet numbers nearing 1000 people in the same spot. Really I would love to see Guild Wars performance if it could even handle 1000 people fighting it out in one spot, actually I would like to see Guild Wars even do 100 vs 100. I would guess it would probably be about the same as in WoW in Wintergrasp when you get max people on both sides at the keep, which is to say you can move somewhat and then the game loads in the 100 people around you fighting and then you die. Same as Eve only with far less people.
Nice try but if you had any sense you'd know that GW was designed for small scale combat because it is more tactical. And tactical in Arenanet's mind is fun. The engine was designed this fact in mind. Pick any game and the more players you put on a server the less sharper the game is. Case and point: Battlefield is sluggish compared to Counter-Strike. Eve was designed for large scale combat and the engine is built for that. Therefore it is more sluggish in small fleet warfare but can shine in larger battles. You can't have everything.
I guess you miss the point that Eve and GW are completely uncomparable.
You did answer my first question though atleast and that is the fact there is no other game out there that combines complex game play with AAA graphics / game design and large scale PvP in one package. Many others out there might be able to handle 2 of those things but the 3rd is always left out.
Any other game can do this aswell since even Eve doesn't have everything and in the very least some other game does it better.
Yup there are lots of games out there that do 1 or 2 of the 3 things better than CCP but still none of them do all 3 at all. They don't even try, maybe you should start interviewing the game devs out there to find out why.
The point of all my previous post was that your previous experiences in games raise your bar and expectations and once you get something better you don't want to go back. The GW example was given because it shows how good patching and launch can be. If other games following that come far behind - it feels like they failed. This is same with the now-smaller fleet sizes in Eve. People are rightfully pissed.
And my point is that you are talking a whole lot without actually saying anything of any significance which is pretty much par for you on these forums, your personal vendetta and trolling against Eve is there for people to check out.
Now for the only thing you had to say that has any value here is "People are rightfully pissed"
I will agree that people have the right to be pissed or upset or whatever they wanna call it all they want but that does not mean they have the right to run around whining and crying calling CCP names and accusing them of false advertisement. What they do have the right to do is cancel their account and go play something else. What they do the right to do is call or email CCP with their complaints. What they do have the right to do is to go on the test server and help them out.
Do you understand yet ?
Nobody is happy about the lag, but there are successful null sec corps that like what dominion has done for combat. (hate to rain on the rage train, but it's the truth)
I actually played GW before coming to EVE, and can't think of a single way that is surpasses EVE. It's static, simplistic, and solo friendly.
EDIT: After thinking about it, I could have gone back to play GW free and choose instead to pay CCP 30+ dollars a month. Can't think of a better example of how GW rates.
Comparing GW to EvE is a bit like comparing an apple to a lime.
Neither have any thing in common except they are round, so to roughly translate your GW is better and a AAA Game compared to EvE in the context of Apples and Limes....
Limes are better than apples because they have just the right bitterness to them compared to Apples which lets face it is not as good. Also the texture of the skin is perfect making Apples smooth bumpless texture simply incorrect. Also those saying its not the same are incorrect because they are both fruit so they are the same therefore comparable.
What i am trying to say is comparing both games is not really possable.
GUILDWARS.
Its a CORPG.
Its set in a Fantasy World on Land.
Its main Terrain features involve Trees Rocks Hills Rivers etc.
Overall its Graphics fit the setting and are very pretty.
It has all Human races to play.
You can groupe up with about 8.
You can visite locations outside a city to take on a instanced quests with upto 8 people.
EVE ONLINE
Its a MMORPG
Its set in space only [true incarna brings about planetry interaction but you dont go landside.
Its main terrain involves the skybox stationg wrecks planets Asteroids etc
Overall its Graphics are pretty and fit the setting.
It has all human races to play.
You can groupe with thousands.
You can vistite locations outside a station to take on non instanced Missions with thousands.
So you see there is very little to compare. BTW so you know i happen to like GW its graphics are very nice as is the archetecture of the locations which is very goos standard even tho its an old engine - just like EvE.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Originally posted by Lordmonkus CCP acknowledges and is doing what they can to fix it.
I somehow cannot understand how focusing on pulling out new expansion that might introduce whole bunch of new issues that will be more or less serious on top of current performance issues can be considered as doing their best...
CCP got very odd priority list and lag issues is not at very high place there.
However, it all does make sense if you take into an account that it is the management failure that brought the lag into a game in first place.
CCP acknowledges and is doing what they can to fix it.
I somehow cannot understand how focusing on pulling out new expansion that might introduce whole bunch of new issues that will be more or less serious on top of current performance issues can be considered as doing their best...
CCP got very odd priority list and lag issues is not at very high place there.
However, it all does make sense if you take into an account that it is the management failure that brought the lag into a game in first place.
If you can't understand how a game company can have different groups of people working on different things at the same time without hurting development or fixes in other areas then how do you think you know that it's managements fault ? Do you have some magical knowledge of the inner workings at CCP to know that it's all managements fault ?
Do you really think it would be wise for a game company to pull it's entire art and story teams to go work on the network code and hardware side of things ? Or do you propose they fire all the art and story teams to hire a bunch of temp network coders to look over all of CCPs code ? Yeah that makes total sense.
Seriously WTF are they gonna do, make a pretty cinematic and all of a sudden the lag gets fixed ? Or are you just some fool who believes throwing more people at a job all of a sudden makes it go faster and smoother ?
Originally posted by Lordmonkus If you can't understand how a game company can have different groups of people working on different things at the same time without hurting development or fixes in other areas then how do you think you know that it's managements fault ? Do you have some magical knowledge of the inner workings at CCP to know that it's all managements fault ? Do you really think it would be wise for a game company to pull it's entire art and story teams to go work on the network code and hardware side of things ? Or do you propose they fire all the art and story teams to hire a bunch of temp network coders to look over all of CCPs code ? Yeah that makes total sense. Seriously WTF are they gonna do, make a pretty cinematic and all of a sudden the lag gets fixed ? Or are you just some fool who believes throwing more people at a job all of a sudden makes it go faster and smoother ?
I think your idea is excellent. I am quite positive the lag issue would be fixed already if you made all the employees stop working and perform fleet tests 4 times a day, pretty sure it would be more helpful than Sisi joke-test performed once in a blue moon...
It is all a matter of priorities...management decisions if you like...
If you can't understand how a game company can have different groups of people working on different things at the same time without hurting development or fixes in other areas then how do you think you know that it's managements fault ? Do you have some magical knowledge of the inner workings at CCP to know that it's all managements fault ?
Do you really think it would be wise for a game company to pull it's entire art and story teams to go work on the network code and hardware side of things ? Or do you propose they fire all the art and story teams to hire a bunch of temp network coders to look over all of CCPs code ? Yeah that makes total sense.
Seriously WTF are they gonna do, make a pretty cinematic and all of a sudden the lag gets fixed ? Or are you just some fool who believes throwing more people at a job all of a sudden makes it go faster and smoother ?
I think your idea is excellent. I am quite positive the lag issue would be fixed already if you made all the employees stop working and perform fleet tests 4 times a day, pretty sure it would be more helpful than Sisi joke-test performed once in a blue moon...
It is all a matter of priorities...management decisions if you like...
Here's another thought. There are planetary/system changes in the upcoming expansion which add on to those put in the previous one.
Perhaps they decided to get everything in place first then deal with the lag issue from a single perspective figuring steps taken now might be wasted once the next big batch of code goes in.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Rockgod99 CCP needs to release two expansions every year.
The only thing CCP needs to do is to pay their bills. Anything else is just a method and/or effort.
You can pay your bills by improving your game and keeping the players playing it because it is enjoyable or you can release new unfinished, broken content and never look back, that works for attracting new players.
The only thing CCP needs to do is to pay their bills. Anything else is just a method and/or effort.
You can pay your bills by improving your game and keeping the players playing it because it is enjoyable or you can release new unfinished, broken content and never look back, that works for attracting new players.
Both ways are financially viable.
CCP doesn't release patches like other mmos.
They don't put some little tweak patch and small content patch out ever 1-2 months.
People want to feel their money is being spent on something other than server and dev fees.
The average gamer starts to get bored with a mmo around the six month mark.
Every six months CCP releases a new expansion that revitalizes the playerbase and keeps them going for another six months on top of gaining 10% retention from new trial accounts that get initially hooked by trialers.
So yeah your right they need to pay the bills and two xpacs a year is how they do it.
Originally posted by Rockgod99 CCP doesn't release patches like other mmos. They don't put some little tweak patch and small content patch out ever 1-2 months. People want to feel their money is being spent on something other than server and dev fees. The average gamer starts to get bored with a mmo around the six month mark. Every six months CCP releases a new expansion that revitalizes the playerbase and keeps them going for another six months on top of gaining 10% retention from new trial accounts that get initially hooked by trialers. So yeah your right they need to pay the bills and two xpacs a year is how they do it.
If I stick to what you have just written:
If a player needs the feeling of his money being worth and if CCP release an expansion every 6 months because of that and if average gamer stays for 6 months, it implies that the expansion release has no bearing on his staying and making your theory of 'money worth' not very solid.
I believe that 6 months were set as for CCP reasonable development cycle when they can release some worthy content. No more no less.
The situation has changed when CCP found out what Marketing is for though
Comments
I am distracting from nothing, actually you keep distracting.
I agreed server performance took a hit. CCP acknowledges and is doing what they can to fix it. Do you not think for a second that CCP really wants to have 1000 person fleet battles run smoothly ? Of course they do, they play game and want to enjoy it just as much as you but there are limitations to what they can do as human beings.
It's one thing to say something like "I really wish they would fix the server problems of large scale fleet PvP, CCP what are you doing to fix this ?"
Just like it's a whole other things to say something like "WTF CCP you suck and your game is fail, we used to have over 1000 people in fleet battles now we can only have 600, QUICK EVERYONE BOYCOTT this stupid sucky game"
There is a line there and the whiners are in fact crossing it. If you can't see the difference between a legit beef and a whine then I can't help you out. If labeling whiner as a whiner makes me look dumb then what does that make the whiners ?
all ppl know that CCP made changes on the grid way fo loading stuff its takes time until they optimize that, it has little to do whit PC specs or network ping
BestSigEver :P
Uhh yeah this game just sucks in general. Tried playing and all I did was put my thing on auto-pilot for like 5 hours to go deliver some crates while I watched TV. Then I got on and my ship had been destroyed by pirates or some shit, so the game was already over for me. Yaaay!
I really just don't know where to begin with whats wrong with this post, it's so full of BS I shouldn't even try.
Eve is not more complex than any other game out there you say. Really, did you say that with a straight face ?
Eve is not a AAA title ? Again did you really say that with a straight face ? I have a hard time believing you on this if you say yes.
Then you start talking about launches and stability issues of other games, what that has to do with anything I have no idea.
You say Eves graphics are dated. Again are you being serious here ? Eves graphics are more than above par for MMOs, if you are comparing to single player games then I see where the problem is here.
You then move on to comparing Guild Wars bug fix to Eve and CCP. In your mind you think because Guild Wars fixed a simple map glitch CCP should be able to fix something as complex as a server handling fleet numbers nearing 1000 people in the same spot. Really I would love to see Guild Wars performance if it could even handle 1000 people fighting it out in one spot, actually I would like to see Guild Wars even do 100 vs 100. I would guess it would probably be about the same as in WoW in Wintergrasp when you get max people on both sides at the keep, which is to say you can move somewhat and then the game loads in the 100 people around you fighting and then you die. Same as Eve only with far less people.
You did answer my first question though atleast and that is the fact there is no other game out there that combines complex game play with AAA graphics / game design and large scale PvP in one package. Many others out there might be able to handle 2 of those things but the 3rd is always left out.
this^
they revamped a system thats been in place for years, its gonna take a bit before its optimized, hell it was still only released 5 months ago. I find it ironic how people say "i cant believe i'm paying for a game with so many blackscreens" when we've gotten, what over 10 expansions? For free...
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
BestSigEver :P
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1267555&page=1
Go help with the testing this weekend and on the 29th. Not sure what people realistically expect beyond this.
BestSigEver :P
Agreed.
I wish the people playing Eve could see how much this game is community driven (and not the whiner side of it either). This game really would have been dead and buried a year after launch if it didn't have the community it has. CCP aren't just a bunch of faceless boardroom twits trying to make a game to maximize profits. CCP actually plays this game with the players and they want it working as intended just as much as the rest of us.
Also CCP does indeed reward some volunteer work, it may not be overly common place or put out for everyone to see but they do reward people. A friend of mine had his account for free because of all the work he did with testing and feedback back in beta, volunteer for the STAR new player help program and they will give you your account for free (or atleast they did for me when I did it 3 years ago).
Shhh....grown-ups are having a discussion here.
No doubt, large scale fleet combat has suffered since Dominion was released, and while EVE is miles (ok Light years) ahead of other MMO's, no one can be happy that they've regressed so quickly after they had resolved it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
More fun in playing Donkey Kong on Atari.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
The point of all my previous post was that your previous experiences in games raise your bar and expectations and once you get something better you don't want to go back. The GW example was given because it shows how good patching and launch can be. If other games following that come far behind - it feels like they failed. This is same with the now-smaller fleet sizes in Eve. People are rightfully pissed.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
And my point is that you are talking a whole lot without actually saying anything of any significance which is pretty much par for you on these forums, your personal vendetta and trolling against Eve is there for people to check out.
Now for the only thing you had to say that has any value here is "People are rightfully pissed"
I will agree that people have the right to be pissed or upset or whatever they wanna call it all they want but that does not mean they have the right to run around whining and crying calling CCP names and accusing them of false advertisement. What they do have the right to do is cancel their account and go play something else. What they do the right to do is call or email CCP with their complaints. What they do have the right to do is to go on the test server and help them out.
Do you understand yet ?
Nobody is happy about the lag, but there are successful null sec corps that like what dominion has done for combat. (hate to rain on the rage train, but it's the truth)
I actually played GW before coming to EVE, and can't think of a single way that is surpasses EVE. It's static, simplistic, and solo friendly.
EDIT: After thinking about it, I could have gone back to play GW free and choose instead to pay CCP 30+ dollars a month. Can't think of a better example of how GW rates.
Comparing GW to EvE is a bit like comparing an apple to a lime.
Neither have any thing in common except they are round, so to roughly translate your GW is better and a AAA Game compared to EvE in the context of Apples and Limes....
Limes are better than apples because they have just the right bitterness to them compared to Apples which lets face it is not as good. Also the texture of the skin is perfect making Apples smooth bumpless texture simply incorrect. Also those saying its not the same are incorrect because they are both fruit so they are the same therefore comparable.
What i am trying to say is comparing both games is not really possable.
GUILDWARS.
Its a CORPG.
Its set in a Fantasy World on Land.
Its main Terrain features involve Trees Rocks Hills Rivers etc.
Overall its Graphics fit the setting and are very pretty.
It has all Human races to play.
You can groupe up with about 8.
You can visite locations outside a city to take on a instanced quests with upto 8 people.
EVE ONLINE
Its a MMORPG
Its set in space only [true incarna brings about planetry interaction but you dont go landside.
Its main terrain involves the skybox stationg wrecks planets Asteroids etc
Overall its Graphics are pretty and fit the setting.
It has all human races to play.
You can groupe with thousands.
You can vistite locations outside a station to take on non instanced Missions with thousands.
So you see there is very little to compare. BTW so you know i happen to like GW its graphics are very nice as is the archetecture of the locations which is very goos standard even tho its an old engine - just like EvE.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I somehow cannot understand how focusing on pulling out new expansion that might introduce whole bunch of new issues that will be more or less serious on top of current performance issues can be considered as doing their best...
CCP got very odd priority list and lag issues is not at very high place there.
However, it all does make sense if you take into an account that it is the management failure that brought the lag into a game in first place.
If you can't understand how a game company can have different groups of people working on different things at the same time without hurting development or fixes in other areas then how do you think you know that it's managements fault ? Do you have some magical knowledge of the inner workings at CCP to know that it's all managements fault ?
Do you really think it would be wise for a game company to pull it's entire art and story teams to go work on the network code and hardware side of things ? Or do you propose they fire all the art and story teams to hire a bunch of temp network coders to look over all of CCPs code ? Yeah that makes total sense.
Seriously WTF are they gonna do, make a pretty cinematic and all of a sudden the lag gets fixed ? Or are you just some fool who believes throwing more people at a job all of a sudden makes it go faster and smoother ?
I think your idea is excellent. I am quite positive the lag issue would be fixed already if you made all the employees stop working and perform fleet tests 4 times a day, pretty sure it would be more helpful than Sisi joke-test performed once in a blue moon...
It is all a matter of priorities...management decisions if you like...
Thank you for confirming your ignorance.
CCP needs to release two expansions every year.
It kind of the games hook "Always changing and evolving"
Lag will be dealt with sooner later.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Here's another thought. There are planetary/system changes in the upcoming expansion which add on to those put in the previous one.
Perhaps they decided to get everything in place first then deal with the lag issue from a single perspective figuring steps taken now might be wasted once the next big batch of code goes in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well when incarna releases the stations will be there own instances/zones so I guess the server stress will be down. maybe we wont lag as bad then.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
The only thing CCP needs to do is to pay their bills. Anything else is just a method and/or effort.
You can pay your bills by improving your game and keeping the players playing it because it is enjoyable or you can release new unfinished, broken content and never look back, that works for attracting new players.
Both ways are financially viable.
CCP doesn't release patches like other mmos.
They don't put some little tweak patch and small content patch out ever 1-2 months.
People want to feel their money is being spent on something other than server and dev fees.
The average gamer starts to get bored with a mmo around the six month mark.
Every six months CCP releases a new expansion that revitalizes the playerbase and keeps them going for another six months on top of gaining 10% retention from new trial accounts that get initially hooked by trialers.
So yeah your right they need to pay the bills and two xpacs a year is how they do it.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
If I stick to what you have just written:
If a player needs the feeling of his money being worth and if CCP release an expansion every 6 months because of that and if average gamer stays for 6 months, it implies that the expansion release has no bearing on his staying and making your theory of 'money worth' not very solid.
I believe that 6 months were set as for CCP reasonable development cycle when they can release some worthy content. No more no less.
The situation has changed when CCP found out what Marketing is for though