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"Automated" resource gathering in a fantasy setting - why not?
docminus
Member Posts: 717
One of the more complex, yet enjoyable crafting systems for me was (ok, still is) in StarWarsGalaxies. Among the features there were the automated harvesters for resource gathering. This works lore wise of course easily in a SciFi setting due to the nature of machines and such.
Then again, many fantasy settings include often some sort of steam-based machinery, and if it it just is for atmosphere and not usage. With that in mind, why couldn't there be steam based harvesters, for example for mining ores? Wood as fuel exists plenty (could also be automated in a way). Would give crafting a different perspective at least. Ok, most likely one would need a sandbox game due to placement of harvesters, fine. Say Darkfall or Mortal Online perhaps? People whine about the time spent for resource gathering, the developers don't want macroers - well, this could be one way to attack this feature, no?
Of course there are other problems that can arise (harvester parks, etc as seen in SWG), then again, it doesn't have to be copy of SWG either. Time limited placement of harvesters, harvesters that get packed into inventory of inactive accounts, may be, or may not be destroyed in a pvp setting, etc. Maybe not all type of resource have to be automated, if not reasonable within the "technical" fantasy setting, or even as compromise for those who actually do enjoy manual gathering, say fishing?
So, why not?
Comments
Why not take it a step further.... You click on a node, select x10 X50 X 100 x500 and the amount instanty goes into your inventory thus further reducing the time needed in game to harvest resources and craft awesome items.
Better solution:
Make harvesting fun, interesting and limit the amount of time one can dedicate to it each day.
1. Allow farming
2. Hire 3rd world people to gather your mats.
Or buy mats off the AH that were farmed by 3rd world types.
You get mats effortlessly. The 3rd world people get some much needed money. Win win.
I think this happens in many popular games. I made a stupid mistake and got hacked. When I got my characters back, my troll rogue had about a thousand gold worth of ore in his inventory.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
How about this, in the Fantasy setting, your guild/clan city is placed, and automatically starts the harvesting proccess for a given area around the city, the more ppl in the guild/clan, the larger the area, and, then, the city divides up those resources to everyone in the guild/clan, evenly, then, its up to the players to sell, trade, or, use these resources as they see fit. more time is placed in actual game play.
You could work in automated resource gathering without having to use machinery.
Rather than building a machine, you build a farm or a mining camp etc. Similar to SWG, you fund it with the game currency, but rather than it being for maintenance, the gold or whatnot that it costs to run is per the wage you're paying to the NPC gatherers.
Consequently, it would also give players the feeling of running a mini kingdom as well, which can be rewarding.
well, of course...
I can see an open world PvP game where players or guilds hire NPC harvesters (like what you got in almost every single RTS) that continue working even when their owners are not nearby or even online. Of course the opposing players may attack those harvesters to interrupt the supply and or rob the resources themselves. Then you can have NPC guards that protect those harvesters... and if that is not enough, the owners themselves may come to the rescue.
What I just described is your basic feudal system. The knights take resources from the peasants in payment for protection. It is quite crazy that no one implemented such a system yet, considering that most mmos are based on fantasy/medieval settings. Sandbox games like Darkfall suffer greatly because they force the wannabe knights (players) to do the peasants work in order for the economy to function.
This would be quite an interesting mechanic for a "living world" mmo - a good mix of PvP and PvE.
I am not shooting down the idea but just thinking, if not having to gather the materials is a positive thing then maybe the answer isn't automate it but rather address the problem of why it is so boring.
You can try and make gathering "fun" but I do not think any gimmick you can use would make it that much fun, especially for very long. You could couch it is something else that is more fun, like combat, you could get materials while fighting, you killed a bandit and harvested iron ore, yay!
Of course this would not let people be pure harvesters, ie harvesting without having to do combat, but if you think about how many people want to be harvesters it is pretty small, most people consider it rather mind numbing.
Anyway, automation could work, automation isn't fun it and of itself it just circumvents a really boring activity. Avoiding something that is boring is a big plus in my book, but finding a way to make it fun is better.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
I already have automated harvesting. He lives in my basement, chained to a desktop PC.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
Well imo it is all a matter of looking at it. For example, if I played a crafter it would be much much more fun for me if I had like a troop of workers mining the rocks and me managing them rather than me being the poor sod with the pickaxe, watching that bar slowly fill while I'm fixing my coffee..
In fact, this could turn gathering into fun as well as provide the player-driven PvE content. Those goblins you've been farming were not placed there by some dev for your convenience to grind.. they are there because some player or guild from the opposing realm put them there... And they might come back at any time to check out why the ore isn't flowing in smoothly..
You can look at this automation as a gimmick to avoid boring bits of the game or you can use it to actually provide and drive content. Imo it's all a matter of how it is implemented. Personally I'm all for it and would like to see it in MMOs, especially those that pretend to sandboxiness which chronically suffer from "grinditis".
(What I just described is actually well known in pen-and-paper RPGs where you can normally hire NPCs.. In fact, Ars Magica, one of the most beloved RPGs, has character creation where you design your main character, a mighty wizard, as well as his whole household of "non-combat" NPCs that perform the mundane tasks while he is off doing the Serious and Important stuff).
Why not just buy your mats from a cash shop? Why not just buy a max skill in the craft of your choice? Why not just buy a max level character with every skill and trade maxed out with all the top gear?
It's only a game - why play it at all?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I personally rather liked the system used in PotBS - you set up a farm/mine/craftshop for some material or good (you have a limited number of slots to hold shops), and time accumulates in realtime, to a maximum of three days. Then, when you want some of whatever the shop does, you simply click on it and it'll spend the accumulated hours to make it.
It wasn't perfect, and sucks a little of the magic out of crafting, but it puts everyone on largely equal footing (unless you log on less frequently than once every three days), and eliminates any grinding from the crafting system, letting you focus on deciding what to make, and what to do with it once you make it.
Edit:
Almost forgot - in Grand Fantasia, your pets (Sprites) do the gathering and crafting for you. So you can basically go do whatever you want, and just tell them to gather some resources, and they'll handle things for you. Pretty close to automated that way, except for having to tell it to go out and harvest some more, every couple minutes. Not a bad system at all, and for better or for worse, it gives the production advantage to those who are logged on longer.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
I understand where the OP is coming from regarding SWG crafting. There are lots of ways it could be done in a fantasy game:
1. Steampunk/gnome engineering machines;
2. Hired NPC miners/harvesters;
3. Magically conjured devices or beings;
4. Spells cast on a node that put the items in your bag over time;
5. Pets or companions that dig up things or fetch them.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Resource harvesting in SWG, as I recall was still pretty time-intensive as you first had to survey to find a spot to place your harvesters, then you had to periodically check on the harvesters to make sure they were still harvesting and were in good repair, then when a vein was tapped out, the process started all over again. It really was a mini-game that made the world feel more immersive.
I wouldn't be in favor of a small army of locust-like hirelings that could be sent out to harvest while you did something else. Most games already have something similar. They're called "bots".
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Well, I am not saying resources should come for free, just that a bit different mechanics could be interesting for a change. So yes, SWG wasn't just to set up a machine whereever and leave. On the other hand, if you were into crafting, you didn't have to worry about that part.
For thos who love manual gathering, there is plenty of choice already, and any new game could still implement such a system, but on top of that other varieties. Or you buy from someone. But that you can do with any system.
As long as it is not the a blob of stone in the middle of a field representing metal, or a branch of wood next to a tree, where the tree can not be touched, but only the twig next to it......
Automated gathering is nice. I loved it in SWG.
But, it presents a different perspective. Automated gathering means you will need more gatherers to gather more. Or more resources to support it.
It trades time for gold basically. Most current games require you to find a node and harvest off of it requiring your time. Automated is passive farming so mats will be plentiful unless they are somehow restricted fairly.
Its a great concept but its a pain to execute well.
Its all about time vs money. How long will it take a developer to create something and how much money will that something bring in?
Player housing is a large cost. It requires vast landscapes to support it and all of the features included and those take development time. Then there is the benefit in $$$ that it provides as a competative edge.
I would say that player housing or player-owned structures are not in high demand overall in the genre so thats why you see so little of it.
I was thinking more on the lines of a more personal type of gathering.
Say you are an archer. You can set your crafting to make arrows, now when you run through the world your char will auto gather sticks and feathers that he comes across while on the move. When he has enough mats to make arrows it will stop gathering, Now when the char stops moving or the player goes AFK the toon will sit down and start making arrows.
This type of system could be use for any type of gathering and crafting. It would be fluid and the only downtime would be controlled by the player himself.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...