As many others have posted, LOTRO is just a bleh game. It's not horrible (except their PvP) but other than the AWESOME lore and background, they don't excel at anything. Most other MMOs have the same or better combat systems, graphics, crafting systems, character progression...etc...etc.
SOE totally screwed the pooch with SWG, Mythic dropped the ball with WAR, and more recently Cryptics blunder with STO has proven that a great IP doesn't mean everything else about the game will be great.
I don't agree with this.
Here's a couple of things that the game is great at.... PVE! One of the deepest and rewardng PvE experiences. Very very few games compare.
Also, unlike other MMO's where quests are a means to an end, in LoTRO, quests are tied into your character's customization via traits.
The high resolution graphics of directx10 on max settings is beautiful. With respect to combat, the mechanics are as deep as any other game, but I do agree that the combat animations are not as good.
Character progression, though you may feel is lacking, I believe to be one of the best.
As a personal note, I've played dozens of mmo's and many many different classes. I believe the Warden class in LOTRO is one, if not the best designed class of any mmo.
As many others have posted, LOTRO is just a bleh game. It's not horrible (except their PvP) but other than the AWESOME lore and background, they don't excel at anything. Most other MMOs have the same or better combat systems, graphics, crafting systems, character progression...etc...etc.
SOE totally screwed the pooch with SWG, Mythic dropped the ball with WAR, and more recently Cryptics blunder with STO has proven that a great IP doesn't mean everything else about the game will be great.
I don't agree with this.
Here's a couple of things that the game is great at.... PVE! One of the deepest and rewardng PvE experiences. Very very few games compare.
Also, unlike other MMO's where quests are a means to an end, in LoTRO, quests are tied into your character's customization via traits.
The high resolution graphics of directx10 on max settings is beautiful. With respect to combat, the mechanics are as deep as any other game, but I do agree that the combat animations are not as good.
Character progression, though you may feel is lacking, I believe to be one of the best.
As a personal note, I've played dozens of mmo's and many many different classes. I believe the Warden class in LOTRO is one, if not the best designed class of any mmo.
I'm not a quest grinder so to me LOTRO felt just like every other MMO on the market when it came to PvE and character progression. I like exploring and fighting thru challenging dungeons with a group of friends. Although exploring and fighting thru dungeons was possible, they were never challenging or rewarding. Just like WoW and most other MMOs today questing grinding is the easiest, most efficient and preferred method of progression in LOTRO and I find it absolutely boring.
I really enjoyed the year I spent in Middle Earth. I even joined a casual guild, which is amazing considering what a loner, solo- player I am.
However, when I tried to get my RL friends interested, they all tried it but were less than captivated. When I questioned them as to why they didn't like it, the general consensus was they didn't feel HEROIC enough. They didn't want to farm, or deliver love letters. They felt SMALL in the world. And when I thought about it I realized I kind of liked that, feeling like a part of the world and not it's savior. But to each his own.
I am not playing LoTRO atm, too many other games both single-player and MMO have hold of my time right now, but I have nothing but good things to say about it. Everyone who enjoys PvE needs to give it a shot. Best storytelling so far in an MMO, and it captures Middle Earth beautifully.
First of all...I'm a big EQ2 fan, but...I also liked LotRO except for a few things.
What I liked the most was being able to RP a minstrel in a traveling band of bards...and RP with like-minded adults. Like EQ2, actually even more so than EQ2, it didn't seem to have much in the way of obnoxious players that liked to control in game chat channels. That is a positive for me in any game, but LotRO and EQ2, so far, seem to have the best communities I've found. Oh...and also Fallen Earth.
I also thought it was the most environmentally beautiful game I have ever seen bar none. I could easily just sit and gawk at how beautiful the game world is. But....with all that beautiful world, and the beautiful bodies of water in it....you couldn't swim under water. I found that....a bit odd.
But to be honest....the REAL game breaker for me (and I know people will roll their eyes at this or just laugh, oh well)....was the absolutely PATHETIC excuse for housing. Either have REAL housing that allows customization, not 10 nodes or whatever, that you can place items on....or just don't have housing AT ALL. Because horrible housing is worse than no housing at all. I am REALLY funny about wanting good player/guild housing in games. I don't know why....it's just almost an absolute requirement for me.
I also began to lose interest as some of my guild mates I had been grouping with....began to outlevel me around the time I was in my late 30s, and....with a minnie....it's just more fun to play in a group, and I didn't have a very easy time of doing that in LotRO, whereas in EQ2 it's never a problem because higher levels are rewarded for mentoring lower levels. Finding a group just seems much easier to me in EQ2.
So when I became grossly outleveled by my guildies...I rolled a Runekeeper which I REALLY enjoyed, but...the same thing happened about level 30 something....I got kind of bored.
I don't know why exactly...I like a LOT of things about LotRO...but it's just missing SOMETHING for me that I can't quite put my finger on....but whatever it IS....EQ2 has it for me. It may be as simple as just the housing, but....I think it's more than that, I just can't quite pinpoint it....hmm....
Great game but imo lack of opposing races/storyline combined with the fact that the storyline that is there, is effectively playing out the rope of a story many are already familiar with just ends up making me lose interest after a month or 2.
Great game but imo lack of opposing races/storyline combined with the fact that the storyline that is there, is effectively playing out the rope of a story many are already familiar with just ends up making me lose interest after a month or 2.
This was a huge part of the problem with the game for me. Instead of being any sort of hero yourself (not that you can be in any mmo :blech: ) you are constantly in he shadow of the fellowship. Doing their errands and being their gophers. On top of that the liberties that have been taken with the lore really detracts from the story for myself. As someone that has read the books at least once a year for the past 30 years (including Silmarillon etc) I find that Turbine has done more harm than good to the lore. A number of years ago Sierra Entertainment had had the rights and were developing Middle Earth Online. This was set after the events of the books and furthered the story. This is where Turbine should have gone, an entire world with a huge history as the backdrop that everyone is familiar with. What a great mmo they could have made. As it stands LoTRO while nice for the first couple months quickly wore itself out.
The one thing I would like to say is that Turbine did run one of the single best beta's I have ever had the privelege of being part of. They took their time and while the launch still had some issues the foundations were set, and set very well. Too bad the building is only meh.
Right now 90% of the people that plays mmos are experienced players, they know how to quest, how to level up fast, how to behave in an instance...
Basically what the average mmo player does is choosing a class, start the game, accept quests and run around doing them as fast as possible, reading only the part that says:" kill 10 x".
If you do this in lotro, the game sucks. It's not meant to be played that way, and that's why it does not appeal the average mmo player. You need to take your time in lotro, read the quests, look around you, and know tolkien lore extensively (not only lord of the rings, but at least the silmarillion too). If you do, it will become the best mmo around, at least for you. I've been playing for 4 months, and everytime i start to get bored, something happen that reminds me how beautiful the game is.
It has flaws tho, the first is that I don't see a strong developing presence to it, it's just like they work for a month, release a patch/expansion, and they stop working for 6 months. I hope warner will bring some freshness to the game, but even as it is it's probably one of the 3 best mmorpg out there.
I believe the main reason is it came out to late, if it came out before WoW than I believe it would of been a bigger success, atleast for me everyone is copying WoW and it always feels the same I have tried to many mmos and all of them have bored me after about a week because they copy WoW. I don't even know if im going to enjoy SWTOR but I plan on giving it a shot because I love Bioware games but most WoW clones Im staying away from because I know they will bore me.
lol. This comment woke up some part of me. As it is human to make comparisons; after WoW came out it became the benchmark. Everything post WoW is compared to WoW and being as huge as WoW is, having heavy funding to develop, enhance the game, everything else can be nice or decent, but once compared to this mega powerhouse becomes fail. i myself have quit WoW decided i had enough of it but cant find anything better to replace it. The reason why you refer to other games as WoW clones is because, WoW was never an original concept game itself. The only thing original about WoW is, it took the good portions of various older mmos, combined it together in ONE game and made it succeed in the gaming market.
I'm not saying it was a failure or anything, but it just seems like it could have been - maybe could still be - a much bigger success than it is. I've been trying MMO after MMO, and after three years away, I'm giving LOTRO a second look. This game has so much more to it than most other MMOs. Certainly more than WoW. Plus, it's possibly the biggest IP a dev could even hope for.
I know it has its flaws, but I'm wondering which really accounts for the lack of mass appeal. Is it simply poor advertising? They advertise a lot, but is it too low key? Maybe they need to push more new content that gives the impression of it being more developmentally alive, not just a fading MMO no one wants to waste resources on? Or maybe the weak first impression it makes during character creation? Maybe they should focus on adding more detail and customization to character appearance?
I'm thinking it's something very basic like that. Not the sort of details players only notice after getting serious about the game.
Im gonna let you on a little secret. Something even most of MMO producers do not realise.
That 12 million players WOW has. They are not MMO players. 90% of them are not interested in MMOs. Nor will ever play other MMO after they are done with WOW. About 30% of them are even not gamers. But people playing WOW because WOW was cultural phenomena.
Now lets talk about MMOs.
MMO fans are not many. ( I am not counting asia) Realistically if MMO is awesomelly uber sucesfull it could reach 1 million players...perhaps 1.5 at most.
LOTRO was pulling 500.000 which is quite good for PVE only mmo.
Problem is that WOW pulled some unrealistic expectations. So now everything appears small compared to it.
Lastly I doubt that even SWTOR will manage to pull over 2 million players over extended subscription times.
I played Lotro at launch for several months, and again later. It is a fun game with lots of cool aspects, but it's not without it's problems. For example, travel is a pain, and even simple exploration can be frustrating. There are soooo many impassable cliffs and forest walls that you often have to go a long ways around to get to certain areas. Even when you get a mount, it's very easy to get dismounted by one of the zillion mobs that are everywhere. The other big issue I had with the game was the endgame, which is very reminiscent of Wow.
Im gonna let you on a little secret. Something even most of MMO producers do not realise.
That 12 million players WOW has. They are not MMO players. 90% of them are not interested in MMOs. Nor will ever play other MMO after they are done with WOW. About 30% of them are even not gamers. But people playing WOW because WOW was cultural phenomena.
Now lets talk about MMOs.
MMO fans are not many. ( I am not counting asia) Realistically if MMO is awesomelly uber sucesfull it could reach 1 million players...perhaps 1.5 at most.
LOTRO was pulling 500.000 which is quite good for PVE only mmo.
Problem is that WOW pulled some unrealistic expectations. So now everything appears small compared to it.
Lastly I doubt that even SWTOR will manage to pull over 2 million players over extended subscription times.
Oh, you're preaching to the choir on this one - I only meant to use WoW as a standard of quality, not a benchmark of success. I know LOTRO has had relatively decent numbers, but somehow, it just doesn't have the feel of a big successful MMO to me. Maybe it's because there's only been one major expansion in three years. Or maybe because I don't see the bustling newbie areas indicative of a constant flow of new players. And just maybe the two are related.
If anything, I might be making the mistake of comparing it to big MMOs of the past, from EQ to DAOC. Games that even got graphics overhauls in an effort to stay competitive with more current MMOs. Even Turbine's own AC did that. You'd think they'd at least do an overhaul of the character models and animations. I see that caveat to LOTRO's great graphics all the time.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I'm not saying it was a failure or anything, but it just seems like it could have been - maybe could still be - a much bigger success than it is. I've been trying MMO after MMO, and after three years away, I'm giving LOTRO a second look. This game has so much more to it than most other MMOs. Certainly more than WoW. Plus, it's possibly the biggest IP a dev could even hope for.
I know it has its flaws, but I'm wondering which really accounts for the lack of mass appeal. Is it simply poor advertising? They advertise a lot, but is it too low key? Maybe they need to push more new content that gives the impression of it being more developmentally alive, not just a fading MMO no one wants to waste resources on? Or maybe the weak first impression it makes during character creation? Maybe they should focus on adding more detail and customization to character appearance?
I'm thinking it's something very basic like that. Not the sort of details players only notice after getting serious about the game.
Honestly I just never play MMOGs based on a book IP I love or a movie IP (both of which LoTR can qualify for). I don't know what it is, it just doesn't interest me. I guess I figure I'll just dillute all the lore into shouts for dungeon runs. The oddest part is it won't bother me in a single-player game, go figure.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
Im gonna let you on a little secret. Something even most of MMO producers do not realise.
That 12 million players WOW has. They are not MMO players. 90% of them are not interested in MMOs. Nor will ever play other MMO after they are done with WOW. About 30% of them are even not gamers. But people playing WOW because WOW was cultural phenomena.
Now lets talk about MMOs.
MMO fans are not many. ( I am not counting asia) Realistically if MMO is awesomelly uber sucesfull it could reach 1 million players...perhaps 1.5 at most.
LOTRO was pulling 500.000 which is quite good for PVE only mmo.
Problem is that WOW pulled some unrealistic expectations. So now everything appears small compared to it.
Lastly I doubt that even SWTOR will manage to pull over 2 million players over extended subscription times.
I think you are absolutely right.
Just because an IP has a fascination to a large audience doesn't mean people are going to want to play a game based on it and then again want to play an mmo based on it as well.
A good portion of my friends are not only fans of the books but also loved the movies. Some with more criticisms than others.
But not a one would even conider playing an mmo. Think it's a huge waste of time.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Im gonna let you on a little secret. Something even most of MMO producers do not realise.
That 12 million players WOW has. They are not MMO players. 90% of them are not interested in MMOs. Nor will ever play other MMO after they are done with WOW. About 30% of them are even not gamers. But people playing WOW because WOW was cultural phenomena.
Now lets talk about MMOs.
MMO fans are not many. ( I am not counting asia) Realistically if MMO is awesomelly uber sucesfull it could reach 1 million players...perhaps 1.5 at most.
LOTRO was pulling 500.000 which is quite good for PVE only mmo.
Problem is that WOW pulled some unrealistic expectations. So now everything appears small compared to it.
Lastly I doubt that even SWTOR will manage to pull over 2 million players over extended subscription times.
You haven't been practicising those lobotomies on yourself now have you?
Cos when you start throwing ridiculous numbers like this around....
You know things that "most MMO producers do not realise". Really? Do you read tea leaves too?
The most generous estimates of LOTRO's subscriptions put them at around 250k and there was one report from a Turbine insider putting them just under 200k back at release.
Seriously, you've just made up every single of these statistics. They're all wonderfully anti-WoW (aren't your marvellous!) but they're just fluff.
The OP's question of why LOTRO didn't do better is a valid one. For an IP this big I expected more. So did LOTRO's developers, who predicted they'd net over a million subscribers. But there are easily identifiable aspects of the game that limited its appeal.
Best leveling experience I've had in a game. The huge beautiful zones with the constantly full quest log keep you moving along nicely.
What killed it for me was 2 things:
1. The lack of PvP. Eventually, you want to try out your skills/gear on some real players. Having to wait till a certain level and being restricted to one PvP zone where there may or may not be any players around to fight gets lame. And when you do find someone, they might be 15 levels higher than you.
2. Character models and animations. How they could get the landscape graphics done so well, and the character graphics so poorly blows my mind. The hair and faces look horrible. The bodies, stiff and awkward. Jumping looks like garbage. I need to like the look of my character in an mmo.
Im gonna let you on a little secret. Something even most of MMO producers do not realise.
That 12 million players WOW has. They are not MMO players. 90% of them are not interested in MMOs. Nor will ever play other MMO after they are done with WOW. About 30% of them are even not gamers. But people playing WOW because WOW was cultural phenomena.
Now lets talk about MMOs.
MMO fans are not many. ( I am not counting asia) Realistically if MMO is awesomelly uber sucesfull it could reach 1 million players...perhaps 1.5 at most.
LOTRO was pulling 500.000 which is quite good for PVE only mmo.
Problem is that WOW pulled some unrealistic expectations. So now everything appears small compared to it.
Lastly I doubt that even SWTOR will manage to pull over 2 million players over extended subscription times.
You haven't been practicising those lobotomies on yourself now have you?
Cos when you start throwing ridiculous numbers like this around....
You know things that "most MMO producers do not realise". Really? Do you read tea leaves too?
The most generous estimates of LOTRO's subscriptions put them at around 250k and there was one report from a Turbine insider putting them just under 200k back at release.
Seriously, you've just made up every single of these statistics. They're all wonderfully anti-WoW (aren't your marvellous!) but they're just fluff.
The OP's question of why LOTRO didn't do better is a valid one. For an IP this big I expected more. So did LOTRO's developers, who predicted they'd net over a million subscribers. But there are easily identifiable aspects of the game that limited its appeal.
Well his numbers may be made up for example purposes and the producers thing as well, but there is a bit of logic to his post.
WoW did in fact bring in a LOT of new blood to the genre. Most of the players they boast in the '11 million strong' are probably made up of gamers who never even considered MMOs before WoW and came to the game because they had ties to other Blizzard products such as the Warcraft series or Diablo 1 and 2.
Hell I know people who laughed at people who played MMOs calling them 'nerds' and 'losers' who now play WoW.
As for LOTRO, IP doesnt mean 'instant hit'. I know a lot of people who love LOTR (and even tried to force me into watching all 3 directors cuts at a 'Middle Earth' themed party...) but can not stand LOTRO. To them its 'Just another game'. A lot of these people were also turned off because they followed MEO and got slapped in the face when it was changed from the RPG (emphasis on the whole Role Play part) MMO to the game it currently is. A lot of them wanted the virtual world that was in development and not the 'game' world that we have currently.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The graphics are good and the epic quest storyline is fun but LOTRO never kept my interest longer than a couple weeks. To me, it shouldn't be an mmorpg simply because we know how the story ends.. It's basically a structured RPG that follows a specific story with little side quests thrown in that make up the MMOG.. I just can't get into a structured MMORPG that you already know the beginning and the end of the story... Not only that, there isnt much room for expanding and implementing whatever Turbine wishes.. They have to follow the overall mythos and story of LOTR which is also depressing..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I just can't get into a structured MMORPG that you already know the beginning and the end of the story... Not only that, there isnt much room for expanding and implementing whatever Turbine wishes.. They have to follow the overall mythos and story of LOTR which is also depressing..
Or great if you love lord of the rings?
I mean, this is essentially the deal breaker here. There are players who want to play in the world of lord of the rings and their are players who want to play in a fantasy world.
Tolkien has a LOT of work in the LOTRO stories and the appencices. Easily enough to maintain the game.
But sticking to what was written is a good thing since it's good work. What does it matter that a huge amount of work was already done as opposed to what most games do and write on the fly?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The graphics are good and the epic quest storyline is fun but LOTRO never kept my interest longer than a couple weeks. To me, it shouldn't be an mmorpg simply because we know how the story ends.. It's basically a structured RPG that follows a specific story with little side quests thrown in that make up the MMOG.. I just can't get into a structured MMORPG that you already know the beginning and the end of the story... Not only that, there isnt much room for expanding and implementing whatever Turbine wishes.. They have to follow the overall mythos and story of LOTR which is also depressing..
I agree with your post.
I think that is one of the reasons I couldnt get into SWG when it came out (aside from the fact I dont really like Star Wars). To me an MMO means the story starts and its up to you, as well as other players, to decide the fate of the world through your actions in it (not really changing the world, but just knowing that the end hasnt already been written).
When it came to playing within the whole 'structured' story (knowing how it all turns out) apathy kicked in and I thought to myself "meh, I know how it ends, so why should I actually bother?"
Now if it were a new chapter in the story, set X years after Return of The King with a new evil and a new adventure, I bet more people would have been drawn to the game (so long as they kept the overall theme fitting Tolkins vision of Middle Earth and the races...)
I guess you can call it Marco Polo syndrom. Some of us want to think we have a chance at discovering something new rather than being where everyone has already been...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I just can't get into a structured MMORPG that you already know the beginning and the end of the story... Not only that, there isnt much room for expanding and implementing whatever Turbine wishes.. They have to follow the overall mythos and story of LOTR which is also depressing..
Or great if you love lord of the rings?
I mean, this is essentially the deal breaker here. There are players who want to play in the world of lord of the rings and their are players who want to play in a fantasy world.
Tolkien has a LOT of work in the LOTRO stories and the appencices. Easily enough to maintain the game.
But sticking to what was written is a good thing since it's good work. What does it matter that a huge amount of work was already done as opposed to what most games do and write on the fly?
Oh don't get me wrong, I love LOTR.. I own all the novels and absolutely love Tolkien's work... I just don't believe the game should be an MMORPG.. As you mentioned in your post, I am a gamer that would rather play in a made up fantasy world where the dev's and writers have much more freedom to shape and mold the world to their liking without ridiculous limitations and licensing restricting their desire to implement anything they want.
An MMORPG is or was supposed to be a virtual multi massive online roleplaying experience where you the player are in control to do and be whatever you want.. There isn't supposed to be a beginning and and end like traditional platform RPG's... MMO's used to be where you can be what you want to be and do what you wanna do just like in real life... Man how the times have changed unfortunately, lol..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Lotro is a great game and has the best community of any mmo I've tired . What it desperatly needs is more pvp options . Be it more pvp areas in upcoming expansion packs or some sort of pvp system similar to the skirmishes .
I just can't get into a structured MMORPG that you already know the beginning and the end of the story... Not only that, there isnt much room for expanding and implementing whatever Turbine wishes.. They have to follow the overall mythos and story of LOTR which is also depressing..
Or great if you love lord of the rings?
I mean, this is essentially the deal breaker here. There are players who want to play in the world of lord of the rings and their are players who want to play in a fantasy world.
Tolkien has a LOT of work in the LOTRO stories and the appencices. Easily enough to maintain the game.
But sticking to what was written is a good thing since it's good work. What does it matter that a huge amount of work was already done as opposed to what most games do and write on the fly?
Oh don't get me wrong, I love LOTR.. I own all the novels and absolutely love Tolkien's work... I just don't believe the game should be an MMORPG.. As you mentioned in your post, I am a gamer that would rather play in a made up fantasy world where the dev's and writers have much more freedom to shape and mold the world to their liking without ridiculous limitations and licensing restricting their desire to implement anything they want.
An MMORPG is or was supposed to be a virtual multi massive online roleplaying experience where you the player are in control to do and be whatever you want.. There isn't supposed to be a beginning and and end like traditional platform RPG's... MMO's used to be where you can be what you want to be and do what you wanna do just like in real life... Man how the times have changed unfortunately, lol..
Well in that case, I would add that it's not that I don't think it should be an mmorpg, I just don't think it works as an mmorpg which is why they have to deviate from the original works.
Not so much the story but how the world is set up. Bree as grand central station? LOTS of hobbits and Elves wandering around everywhere. etc.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I've not played LotR, so I can't attest to whether that's true, but I hear that a lot. The screenshots do look very much like WoW, and it's 3D Dungeons & Dragons type gameplay. WoW pretty much has that market covered at the moment.
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Comments
I don't agree with this.
Here's a couple of things that the game is great at.... PVE! One of the deepest and rewardng PvE experiences. Very very few games compare.
Also, unlike other MMO's where quests are a means to an end, in LoTRO, quests are tied into your character's customization via traits.
The high resolution graphics of directx10 on max settings is beautiful. With respect to combat, the mechanics are as deep as any other game, but I do agree that the combat animations are not as good.
Character progression, though you may feel is lacking, I believe to be one of the best.
As a personal note, I've played dozens of mmo's and many many different classes. I believe the Warden class in LOTRO is one, if not the best designed class of any mmo.
I'm not a quest grinder so to me LOTRO felt just like every other MMO on the market when it came to PvE and character progression. I like exploring and fighting thru challenging dungeons with a group of friends. Although exploring and fighting thru dungeons was possible, they were never challenging or rewarding. Just like WoW and most other MMOs today questing grinding is the easiest, most efficient and preferred method of progression in LOTRO and I find it absolutely boring.
I really want to like LOTRO, I've given it countless chances but it just never holds my interest for long. What usually gets me down is:
the boring class choices, while they tried to do something different with them ultimately they're just not that interesting.
Over emphasis on solo quest grind. (skirmish system was an interesting attempt at giving a new option for advancement but ultimately gets boring)
Crafting system is a snorefest
PVP option has been left to wither and die. I always thought ettenmoors was the first map of many to come.. nope.
I love the zone designs and general feel of the game however. Real pity I can get into the higher levels before getting bored.
Currently Playing: The Game
Lack of REAL PVP I say.
And no, PVmP is not REAL PVP
I really enjoyed the year I spent in Middle Earth. I even joined a casual guild, which is amazing considering what a loner, solo- player I am.
However, when I tried to get my RL friends interested, they all tried it but were less than captivated. When I questioned them as to why they didn't like it, the general consensus was they didn't feel HEROIC enough. They didn't want to farm, or deliver love letters. They felt SMALL in the world. And when I thought about it I realized I kind of liked that, feeling like a part of the world and not it's savior. But to each his own.
I am not playing LoTRO atm, too many other games both single-player and MMO have hold of my time right now, but I have nothing but good things to say about it. Everyone who enjoys PvE needs to give it a shot. Best storytelling so far in an MMO, and it captures Middle Earth beautifully.
First of all...I'm a big EQ2 fan, but...I also liked LotRO except for a few things.
What I liked the most was being able to RP a minstrel in a traveling band of bards...and RP with like-minded adults. Like EQ2, actually even more so than EQ2, it didn't seem to have much in the way of obnoxious players that liked to control in game chat channels. That is a positive for me in any game, but LotRO and EQ2, so far, seem to have the best communities I've found. Oh...and also Fallen Earth.
I also thought it was the most environmentally beautiful game I have ever seen bar none. I could easily just sit and gawk at how beautiful the game world is. But....with all that beautiful world, and the beautiful bodies of water in it....you couldn't swim under water. I found that....a bit odd.
But to be honest....the REAL game breaker for me (and I know people will roll their eyes at this or just laugh, oh well)....was the absolutely PATHETIC excuse for housing. Either have REAL housing that allows customization, not 10 nodes or whatever, that you can place items on....or just don't have housing AT ALL. Because horrible housing is worse than no housing at all. I am REALLY funny about wanting good player/guild housing in games. I don't know why....it's just almost an absolute requirement for me.
I also began to lose interest as some of my guild mates I had been grouping with....began to outlevel me around the time I was in my late 30s, and....with a minnie....it's just more fun to play in a group, and I didn't have a very easy time of doing that in LotRO, whereas in EQ2 it's never a problem because higher levels are rewarded for mentoring lower levels. Finding a group just seems much easier to me in EQ2.
So when I became grossly outleveled by my guildies...I rolled a Runekeeper which I REALLY enjoyed, but...the same thing happened about level 30 something....I got kind of bored.
I don't know why exactly...I like a LOT of things about LotRO...but it's just missing SOMETHING for me that I can't quite put my finger on....but whatever it IS....EQ2 has it for me. It may be as simple as just the housing, but....I think it's more than that, I just can't quite pinpoint it....hmm....
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Great game but imo lack of opposing races/storyline combined with the fact that the storyline that is there, is effectively playing out the rope of a story many are already familiar with just ends up making me lose interest after a month or 2.
This was a huge part of the problem with the game for me. Instead of being any sort of hero yourself (not that you can be in any mmo :blech: ) you are constantly in he shadow of the fellowship. Doing their errands and being their gophers. On top of that the liberties that have been taken with the lore really detracts from the story for myself. As someone that has read the books at least once a year for the past 30 years (including Silmarillon etc) I find that Turbine has done more harm than good to the lore. A number of years ago Sierra Entertainment had had the rights and were developing Middle Earth Online. This was set after the events of the books and furthered the story. This is where Turbine should have gone, an entire world with a huge history as the backdrop that everyone is familiar with. What a great mmo they could have made. As it stands LoTRO while nice for the first couple months quickly wore itself out.
The one thing I would like to say is that Turbine did run one of the single best beta's I have ever had the privelege of being part of. They took their time and while the launch still had some issues the foundations were set, and set very well. Too bad the building is only meh.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Right now 90% of the people that plays mmos are experienced players, they know how to quest, how to level up fast, how to behave in an instance...
Basically what the average mmo player does is choosing a class, start the game, accept quests and run around doing them as fast as possible, reading only the part that says:" kill 10 x".
If you do this in lotro, the game sucks. It's not meant to be played that way, and that's why it does not appeal the average mmo player. You need to take your time in lotro, read the quests, look around you, and know tolkien lore extensively (not only lord of the rings, but at least the silmarillion too). If you do, it will become the best mmo around, at least for you. I've been playing for 4 months, and everytime i start to get bored, something happen that reminds me how beautiful the game is.
It has flaws tho, the first is that I don't see a strong developing presence to it, it's just like they work for a month, release a patch/expansion, and they stop working for 6 months. I hope warner will bring some freshness to the game, but even as it is it's probably one of the 3 best mmorpg out there.
lol. This comment woke up some part of me. As it is human to make comparisons; after WoW came out it became the benchmark. Everything post WoW is compared to WoW and being as huge as WoW is, having heavy funding to develop, enhance the game, everything else can be nice or decent, but once compared to this mega powerhouse becomes fail. i myself have quit WoW decided i had enough of it but cant find anything better to replace it. The reason why you refer to other games as WoW clones is because, WoW was never an original concept game itself. The only thing original about WoW is, it took the good portions of various older mmos, combined it together in ONE game and made it succeed in the gaming market.
<QQ moar plz. kkthxbai.>
Im gonna let you on a little secret. Something even most of MMO producers do not realise.
That 12 million players WOW has. They are not MMO players. 90% of them are not interested in MMOs. Nor will ever play other MMO after they are done with WOW. About 30% of them are even not gamers. But people playing WOW because WOW was cultural phenomena.
Now lets talk about MMOs.
MMO fans are not many. ( I am not counting asia) Realistically if MMO is awesomelly uber sucesfull it could reach 1 million players...perhaps 1.5 at most.
LOTRO was pulling 500.000 which is quite good for PVE only mmo.
Problem is that WOW pulled some unrealistic expectations. So now everything appears small compared to it.
Lastly I doubt that even SWTOR will manage to pull over 2 million players over extended subscription times.
I played Lotro at launch for several months, and again later. It is a fun game with lots of cool aspects, but it's not without it's problems. For example, travel is a pain, and even simple exploration can be frustrating. There are soooo many impassable cliffs and forest walls that you often have to go a long ways around to get to certain areas. Even when you get a mount, it's very easy to get dismounted by one of the zillion mobs that are everywhere. The other big issue I had with the game was the endgame, which is very reminiscent of Wow.
Oh, you're preaching to the choir on this one - I only meant to use WoW as a standard of quality, not a benchmark of success. I know LOTRO has had relatively decent numbers, but somehow, it just doesn't have the feel of a big successful MMO to me. Maybe it's because there's only been one major expansion in three years. Or maybe because I don't see the bustling newbie areas indicative of a constant flow of new players. And just maybe the two are related.
If anything, I might be making the mistake of comparing it to big MMOs of the past, from EQ to DAOC. Games that even got graphics overhauls in an effort to stay competitive with more current MMOs. Even Turbine's own AC did that. You'd think they'd at least do an overhaul of the character models and animations. I see that caveat to LOTRO's great graphics all the time.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Honestly I just never play MMOGs based on a book IP I love or a movie IP (both of which LoTR can qualify for). I don't know what it is, it just doesn't interest me. I guess I figure I'll just dillute all the lore into shouts for dungeon runs. The oddest part is it won't bother me in a single-player game, go figure.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
I think you are absolutely right.
Just because an IP has a fascination to a large audience doesn't mean people are going to want to play a game based on it and then again want to play an mmo based on it as well.
A good portion of my friends are not only fans of the books but also loved the movies. Some with more criticisms than others.
But not a one would even conider playing an mmo. Think it's a huge waste of time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You haven't been practicising those lobotomies on yourself now have you?
Cos when you start throwing ridiculous numbers like this around....
You know things that "most MMO producers do not realise". Really? Do you read tea leaves too?
The most generous estimates of LOTRO's subscriptions put them at around 250k and there was one report from a Turbine insider putting them just under 200k back at release.
Seriously, you've just made up every single of these statistics. They're all wonderfully anti-WoW (aren't your marvellous!) but they're just fluff.
The OP's question of why LOTRO didn't do better is a valid one. For an IP this big I expected more. So did LOTRO's developers, who predicted they'd net over a million subscribers. But there are easily identifiable aspects of the game that limited its appeal.
Best leveling experience I've had in a game. The huge beautiful zones with the constantly full quest log keep you moving along nicely.
What killed it for me was 2 things:
1. The lack of PvP. Eventually, you want to try out your skills/gear on some real players. Having to wait till a certain level and being restricted to one PvP zone where there may or may not be any players around to fight gets lame. And when you do find someone, they might be 15 levels higher than you.
2. Character models and animations. How they could get the landscape graphics done so well, and the character graphics so poorly blows my mind. The hair and faces look horrible. The bodies, stiff and awkward. Jumping looks like garbage. I need to like the look of my character in an mmo.
Well his numbers may be made up for example purposes and the producers thing as well, but there is a bit of logic to his post.
WoW did in fact bring in a LOT of new blood to the genre. Most of the players they boast in the '11 million strong' are probably made up of gamers who never even considered MMOs before WoW and came to the game because they had ties to other Blizzard products such as the Warcraft series or Diablo 1 and 2.
Hell I know people who laughed at people who played MMOs calling them 'nerds' and 'losers' who now play WoW.
As for LOTRO, IP doesnt mean 'instant hit'. I know a lot of people who love LOTR (and even tried to force me into watching all 3 directors cuts at a 'Middle Earth' themed party...) but can not stand LOTRO. To them its 'Just another game'. A lot of these people were also turned off because they followed MEO and got slapped in the face when it was changed from the RPG (emphasis on the whole Role Play part) MMO to the game it currently is. A lot of them wanted the virtual world that was in development and not the 'game' world that we have currently.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The graphics are good and the epic quest storyline is fun but LOTRO never kept my interest longer than a couple weeks. To me, it shouldn't be an mmorpg simply because we know how the story ends.. It's basically a structured RPG that follows a specific story with little side quests thrown in that make up the MMOG.. I just can't get into a structured MMORPG that you already know the beginning and the end of the story... Not only that, there isnt much room for expanding and implementing whatever Turbine wishes.. They have to follow the overall mythos and story of LOTR which is also depressing..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Or great if you love lord of the rings?
I mean, this is essentially the deal breaker here. There are players who want to play in the world of lord of the rings and their are players who want to play in a fantasy world.
Tolkien has a LOT of work in the LOTRO stories and the appencices. Easily enough to maintain the game.
But sticking to what was written is a good thing since it's good work. What does it matter that a huge amount of work was already done as opposed to what most games do and write on the fly?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree with your post.
I think that is one of the reasons I couldnt get into SWG when it came out (aside from the fact I dont really like Star Wars). To me an MMO means the story starts and its up to you, as well as other players, to decide the fate of the world through your actions in it (not really changing the world, but just knowing that the end hasnt already been written).
When it came to playing within the whole 'structured' story (knowing how it all turns out) apathy kicked in and I thought to myself "meh, I know how it ends, so why should I actually bother?"
Now if it were a new chapter in the story, set X years after Return of The King with a new evil and a new adventure, I bet more people would have been drawn to the game (so long as they kept the overall theme fitting Tolkins vision of Middle Earth and the races...)
I guess you can call it Marco Polo syndrom. Some of us want to think we have a chance at discovering something new rather than being where everyone has already been...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Oh don't get me wrong, I love LOTR.. I own all the novels and absolutely love Tolkien's work... I just don't believe the game should be an MMORPG.. As you mentioned in your post, I am a gamer that would rather play in a made up fantasy world where the dev's and writers have much more freedom to shape and mold the world to their liking without ridiculous limitations and licensing restricting their desire to implement anything they want.
An MMORPG is or was supposed to be a virtual multi massive online roleplaying experience where you the player are in control to do and be whatever you want.. There isn't supposed to be a beginning and and end like traditional platform RPG's... MMO's used to be where you can be what you want to be and do what you wanna do just like in real life... Man how the times have changed unfortunately, lol..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Lotro is a great game and has the best community of any mmo I've tired . What it desperatly needs is more pvp options . Be it more pvp areas in upcoming expansion packs or some sort of pvp system similar to the skirmishes .
Well in that case, I would add that it's not that I don't think it should be an mmorpg, I just don't think it works as an mmorpg which is why they have to deviate from the original works.
Not so much the story but how the world is set up. Bree as grand central station? LOTS of hobbits and Elves wandering around everywhere. etc.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You can't out-WoW WoW.
I've not played LotR, so I can't attest to whether that's true, but I hear that a lot. The screenshots do look very much like WoW, and it's 3D Dungeons & Dragons type gameplay. WoW pretty much has that market covered at the moment.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.