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Why Isn't This Game Huge?

VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159

I'm not saying it was a failure or anything, but it just seems like it could have been - maybe could still be - a much bigger success than it is.  I've been trying MMO after MMO, and after three years away, I'm giving LOTRO a second look.  This game has so much more to it than most other MMOs.  Certainly more than WoW.  Plus, it's possibly the biggest IP a dev could even hope for.

I know it has its flaws, but I'm wondering which really accounts for the lack of mass appeal.  Is it simply poor advertising?  They advertise a lot, but is it too low key?  Maybe they need to push more new content that gives the impression of it being more developmentally alive, not just a fading MMO no one wants to waste resources on?  Or maybe the weak first impression it makes during character creation?  Maybe they should focus on adding more detail and customization to character appearance? 

I'm thinking it's something very basic like that.  Not the sort of details players only notice after getting serious about the game.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

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Comments

  • Naturalist99Naturalist99 Member Posts: 182

    I don't understand what you don't see, the game has beautiful graphics last I played, a year ago, so if anything its better now, one of the best mmo as far as graphics goes. Content wise it does get content, I mean, a few months ago it got somewhat of a mini expansion that you had to pay for yes, but it was an expansion.

    MMOs played: Too many
    Watch List: FFXIV, CoH:GR, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, Earthrise

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431

    For me, it just got boring. I can't put my finger on it, but I just would log in less and less after the launch of Moria. The content is fine, there is plenty there to do. Crafting is ok, but just the same as anywhere else. I just got bored doing the same thing over and over using the same combat sequences.

     

    Just like anything else, you start to get burned out and need to try something else. The game is good enough, but the lack of PvP or progression gets to you. I may go back once they get to Mordor. That way, I can go through the entire story, but there is nothing to keep me interested at the moment.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    IThis game has so much more to it than most other MMOs.

    Do tell.

  • lowendahllowendahl Member Posts: 102

    It's not all that different from all the other fantasy MMOs. Competently made and a strong IP, but it's still 'same old, same old'.

     

    Graphics are quite good with a decent machine, but with min specs the game looks worse than many others.

  • AristidesAristides Member Posts: 172

    Interesting question.  I consider myself a tremendous Tolkien fan, yet I put this game down after playing for only a few weeks.  I played through two race intros, took a short tour of places I wanted to see in the Shire for amusement purposes, and set it aside. 

    For myself, I simply wasn't able to invest the time or the subscription fee, despite entirely approving of the game both artistically and professionally (I'm an MMO developer myself).  It's exceptionally faithful to the milieu, and I respect that a great deal.  I suppose that for me, the deal-breaker may have been the PvP... or lack thereof.  "Monster Play" struck me as an outstanding, innovative feature, but my attitude toward PvP was formed based on "Realm pride" in Dark Age of Camelot, so the form of "pickup" PvP that "Monster Play" represents just didn't inspire me.

    That said, my limited available time means that for years now I haven't been able to get deeply involved in any game that demands a big time investment to play its PvP.  Perhaps I should give LotRO another look, myself.

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,149

    I got to a point around mid 30s where I just found the gameplay repetative and tiring.  maybe I overplayed.  It is a great game though with a great community. . Landroval especially (RP)

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • OddbotOddbot Member Posts: 31

    Well LOTRO has made out much better than most other post-wow MMOs. Comparing it to WAR and AoC, LOTRO has fared ten times better. 3 years in, and they have not had to merge servers  like the other aforementioned games and still have a healthy pop, which is great.

    As to why it isn't  bigger success, well, I feel it doesn't really bring that much new to the table compared to other MMOs, but in exchange it is a very polished game, and has been even since launch. The mostly PVE focus is what really keeps it a niche game, whereas WoW caters to both the hardcore PvE and hardcore PvP players. But that's also what I like about it, since I'm really not into PvP much.

  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159

    I see the comment that it gets repetitive a lot - think that's why I quit to begin with - but what's that really mean?  Seems like every MMO is same-old same-old, and yet some are much more popular than others.  I feel that there must be some underlying reason to why a game can fail to hold player interest, despite appearing to have plenty going for it, at least compared to other MMOs. 

     

    I was thinking it had something to do with a lack of connection to my characters.  They felt too cookie-cutter, and so I didn't have that much interest in perservering through the level grind, to see how they'd develop- but maybe that's just me.  I don't know if that has much to do with mass appeal or not.

     

    As for what this game has over other MMOs, I just mean polish, mostly.  Graphics that still look better than most MMOs, even years later.  A combat system that's at least on par with other AAA MMOs.  Nothing spectacular, but decent.  Lots of environmental variation - you can run around the gameworld and see all sorts of things, while in other MMOs, it's often just vast expanses of mob spawning grounds, that look way too similar.  A feel to the gameworld that it's more alive and interesting than other MMOs, except maybe not quite as full of players these days.

     

    And as for whether they're still adding stuff - my point isn't that they aren't - it's more that I don't know if they are or not.  If they are, they haven't done a great job of advertising it outside the game.  Even as a new player, giving the free trial a shot, I didn't see much about what they've added at all.  Seemed just about identical to my low level experience way back when, without so much as hints or teasers of what I had to look forward to that might be new or different.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • NicooNicoo Member UncommonPosts: 236

    Tried it out like last year, stiff and boring. Nothing more to it.

    image

  • Hrayr2148Hrayr2148 Member Posts: 649

    It's the same reason why a movie like No Country for Old Men won Best Picture but only made $74 million at the box office.

    Lotro is all substance and very little style.  Though the game, especially with directx10, is absolutely beautiful, the character animation and combat animation are poor.   Very few instances where you'll stop and say "wow that's a cool looking ability."  It is also very casual friendly but still hasn't had the same type of success as wow. 

    Unlike other games where you have a lot of superficial eye candy (armor, weapons, special effects), you have none of that in Lotro.  I beleive that you should have a little of that, more so than Lotro has.   Lotro, caters to people who don't mind reading the quests or are huge tolken fans.  I would bet that the average age of LOTRO players is higher than most other mmo players. 

    Lotro is just as complex, if not more than other mmo's.  It has a very very satisfying PvE but a nonexistant / meaninful PvP. 

    I don't want this to sound elitist, but I believe the game takes a little bit more maturity and less emphasis on "eye candy and flashy abilities" than other mmo's.  It doesn't look cool, but plays far deeper than first impressions would lead to you believe.

     

    Edit:

    I believe the PvE is superb.  The story telling and mini instances (Book Quests/Chains) are incredibly immersive.  My first MMO love was FFXI which was completely immersive.  LoTRO is the first mmo since FFXI where I feel part of the world.  The Music is superb as well, though AoC had great music as well.

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341

    I can answer this one easily.

    1) The memory leaks are a problem. Every single time I've gone back to play it I suffer the same occasional enormous lag spikes where an area is completely free of mobs, but about a minute later they all spawn, chase me down and insta-kill me. It's funny to watch, but a bit irritating - especially if you're trying to get to level 20 without dieing.

    2) It's a bit fluffy. Like you don't lose "health", you lose "morale". And look at all of the names of the attack abilities, eg. "flurry of words". That really is a superficial thing - but it does make the game seem a bit.... soft-core.

    3) Having played it I don't think this is as bad as it seemed just from the PR, but we all already know the end to the story, i.e. Sauron loses. It shifts the game a bit more towards a story-driven single-player design. When Turbine announced that was their plan for LOTRO, that killed my interest in the game.

    4) They didn't have a proper magic-using class at launch. That's anomalous in the fantasy genre. And before anyone cries "there were no magic-users in Lord of the Rings", there were. Turbine didn't even have the loremaster class in their original plans but relented when these facts were thrown at them on their forums. The fact that they also later introduced the runemaster, I think, is an indication that they realised the absence of a proper magic-using class was limiting their appeal.

    _____________

    It is disappointing because it's one of the few MMOs released since WoW that wasn't rushed into a premature launch. So while I didn't feel ripped off for having bought it, it ust wasn't all that appealing. The more recent times I've gone back I've actually enjoyed playing the runekeeper class, but the terrible lag spikes make it too difficult to play so I don't subscribe.

  • Hrayr2148Hrayr2148 Member Posts: 649

    Originally posted by green13

    I can answer this one easily.

    1) The memory leaks are a problem. Every single time I've gone back to play it I suffer the same occasional enormous lag spikes where an area is completely free of mobs, but about a minute later they all spawn, chase me down and insta-kill me. It's funny to watch, but a bit irritating - especially if you're trying to get to level 20 without dieing.

    2) It's a bit fluffy. Like you don't lose "health", you lose "morale". And look at all of the names of the attack abilities, eg. "flurry of words". That really is a superficial thing - but it does make the game seem a bit.... soft-core.

    3) Having played it I don't think this is as bad as it seemed just from the PR, but we all already know the end to the story, i.e. Sauron loses. It shifts the game a bit more towards a story-driven single-player design. When Turbine announced that was their plan for LOTRO, that killed my interest in the game.

    4) They didn't have a proper magic-using class at launch. That's anomalous in the fantasy genre. And before anyone cries "there were no magic-users in Lord of the Rings", there were. Turbine didn't even have the loremaster class in their original plans but relented when these facts were thrown at them on their forums. The fact that they also later introduced the runemaster, I think, is an indication that they realised the absence of a proper magic-using class was limiting their appeal.

    _____________

    It is disappointing because it's one of the few MMOs released since WoW that wasn't rushed into a premature launch. So while I didn't feel ripped off for having bought it, it ust wasn't all that appealing. The more recent times I've gone back I've actually enjoyed playing the runekeeper class, but the terrible lag spikes make it too difficult to play so I don't subscribe.

    I've had flawless performance thus far.  Not a single lag spike in the last two months.  That's just my personal experience... doesn't mean others, like you, havn't experienced technical difficulties.

  • AbloecAbloec Member CommonPosts: 315

    I believe the main reason is it came out to late, if it came out before WoW than I believe it would of been a bigger success, atleast for me everyone is copying WoW and it always feels the same I have tried to many mmos and all of them have bored me after about a week because they copy WoW. I don't even know if im going to enjoy SWTOR but I plan on giving it a shot because I love Bioware games but most WoW clones Im staying away from because I know they will bore me.

    image

    Damnant quod non intellegunt
  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    For me it was the first impression of the character models. When I played the trial, I wasn't able to create a character where I'd say "now that's one I like, looks great". And when I have a character whos look I don't really like, that's a huge turnoff. Also that even tiny houses were zone annoyed me a bit.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    same reason as aoc,war etc!they are beautyfull but add massive pvp to it and they arent there at all!

    when they get :dx11(without tessalation

                              :donnybrook and a heavy use of remote differential compression

    then it might be able to have lush and massive but so far the most beautyfull yet massive i saw is aika online

    why a game like runescape eclipse a lot of game ,why a game like dragon oath or guild wars are so popular 

    because they take very little ressource.the fact guild wars was design from the get go on a laptop helped a lot 

    try to design a ressource heavy game on a laptop!its very hard to do 

    i hope guild wars 2 will be tested on netbook only for performance that way we can be sure everybody will be hable to play 

    what made guild wars popular is the fact it runs on anything

    same for wow

    the magic is this if it works on laptop of 3 years old it will be played by million!check maplestory simplest game 

    yet they have a huge gattering.

    there is one rule you cannot bypass if you want million of player :

    it as to run on the minimum guild wars run

    most game advertise that they do but most dont! or look so pixelated and ugly the game look like a troll lol!

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341

    Originally posted by Hrayr2148

    I've had flawless performance thus far.  Not a single lag spike in the last two months.  That's just my personal experience... doesn't mean others, like you, havn't experienced technical difficulties.

    They may finally have fixed them. Last time I played it was about six months ago.

    But they were there at launch, and again every time I went back over two plus years.

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640

    Lack of real pvp and initially had sub-par combat compared to Wow.

    Combat is better but now the game is top heavy.  It's a lonely experience leveling for a newbie.

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • bbbmmmlllbbbmmmlll Member Posts: 79

    I agree with the lacking style comment. I find it difficult to get excited about the races, classes or gear in the game. That's the price of  staying close to the lore. I also think the game slowed down in the upper 30's and it became difficult to find quests. This has been somewhat addressed recently with area revamps, changes to allow epic quests to be done solo and the addition of skirmishes. Otherwise, as a casual gamer, I really like the game. The environments are generally well designed and I enjoy the quests.  My only real complaint is that there's less new content being released.

  • ZoomzooZoomzoo Member Posts: 82

    I was initially really impressed with LOTRO.

    But then they dumbed my class down (healer) so anyone could play it with ease.

    Then they made then PVE encounters either way to easy or absolutely impossible so you're either bored out of you mind or runnig for your life.

    I tried the PvP many moons ago and wasn't too impressed - seemed like it needed quite a bit more polish.

    I still log in once in a great while and run around, but after 1 to 2 hours I remember why I don't play this game very much.

    I wish it was great since I have a lifetime subscription, but oh well...

  • Southpaw.GamerSouthpaw.Gamer Member CommonPosts: 572

    The Biggest reason I stopped playing LOTRO is because it is purely a PVE game.  I am a HUGE LOTR fan and love the world and characters... but the classes and overall lack of exciting gameplay meant I didn't stick around long.

     

    If the game were to change having no classes and you simply chose a race from which you then built up whatever skills you wanted to a certain skill cap I'd likely have stayed much longer.  Part of the story is about how people can defy expectations and become things that normally they wouldn't be thought to reach.  Add in that and an enemy playable faction turning it into a real war for the ring by having a dynamic front line and so forth and I'd likely wet myself. 

     

    LOTR is such an amazing world to create an MMO around... and although Turbine got the visuals right overall the gameplay is shallow and simply not the game I want to waste hours on daily.

    Full Sail University - Game Design

  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    As for what this game has over other MMOs, I just mean polish, mostly.  Graphics that still look better than most MMOs, even years later.  A combat system that's at least on par with other AAA MMOs.  Nothing spectacular, but decent.  Lots of environmental variation - you can run around the gameworld and see all sorts of things, while in other MMOs, it's often just vast expanses of mob spawning grounds, that look way too similar.  A feel to the gameworld that it's more alive and interesting than other MMOs, except maybe not quite as full of players these days.

    I think you answered your own question. It doesn't distinguish itself from anything else on the market.  Its basically a continuation of the "do quest until your eyes bleed" gameplay. I'd say that is all this game is. After 32 levels I find it very difficult to get motivated to log in. Why? Nothing new awaits me. Its the same old "go kill 20 boars" quest for 32 levels. Not to mention I feel there is a lack of community, because most people ignore everyone around them. In 32 levels I haven't grouped.

    I want to be part of a game that has a community, and a need for other people. Yea, I know good luck with that, right? Non-existant nowadays.

  • Bama1267Bama1267 Member UncommonPosts: 1,822

     I played beta thanks to the good people here at MMORPG.com. Durign that time I played it on and off, I had been really excited about it since I had followed it for a couple years. The beta went really really smooth, but I never really got into it. It just seemed more of the same. Beta came and went  and I didn't buy it.

     A year or so later I found a friend was playing and decided to give it a go. I got into the 20's and bleh ... quit again. Combat  no matter how realistic to the lore is quite boring for most people I have come across. Not being able to play a true caster is also a negative for those wishing to play caster classes. Hell, that might cut out half your potential customers right there. Staying strictly to the lore is what kept the numbers down on LOTRO, which I'm sure most playing are actually happy with.

     Still a decent game though, definately worth trying If someone was looking for an mmo.

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    I'm sure most of you haven't play this at all lately.

     

    They changed combat to be basically WoWs combat. You don't have to wait after your cast is done to move or anything.  You can interrupt and such while doing other attacks. Attacks mesh together, better then wows does in animation now.  Instead of stopping mid attack to do your special, it meshes the special into the attack.

    That was a big thing for me, since combat felt so slow.  And not just so slow, but clunky.  Finishing a cast, and standing in place for another full second is very very silly.

  • MurashuMurashu Member UncommonPosts: 1,386

    As many others have posted, LOTRO is just a bleh game. It's not horrible (except their PvP) but other than the AWESOME lore and background, they don't excel at anything. Most other MMOs have the same or better combat systems, graphics, crafting systems, character progression...etc...etc.

     

    SOE totally screwed the pooch with SWG, Mythic dropped the ball with WAR, and more recently Cryptics blunder with STO has proven that a great IP doesn't mean everything else about the game will be great.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    Because they took an awesome intellectual property and created a snooze fest. Really, it is just too bleh as many stated before. I want to see the black gates of Mordor with epic music and an army to slaughter not some skorgrim whatchamacallit storybook theme.

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