Originally posted by Xondar123 Do you have sales figures on that 20,000,000 number? Cause I can provide decent evidence that STO has less that 200,000 paid accounts in total. Your argumant also completely ignores scale and thus is a silly pastiche. If WoW had only ever gotten less than 200K subscribers, it would also be a failure. Second, WoW has been out for 5 years now. STO lost 50% of its subscriber base in three months. Third, Star Trek is a gigantic IP and the average Star Trek convention puts BlizzCon to shame. There is no excuse for a Star Trek MMO doing so poorly. Any more silly excuses you'd wish to make?
I do not need sales figures since I am not arguing the numbers, I am arguing the fail logic you used.
If you want brag about numbers, you need to stop pulling them out of your nose. Your figures are just random numbers with no back up. All you can work with is 'well over 100k subs' quote from the interview.
IP has no bearing on retention rates nor first 3 months speaks for anything. For that, you would actually need some reasoning.
Talking about silliness, you rather be more careful with your own posts....
We should get further information when Atari's next financial report is released and we see the profits earned (or lost) by Cryptic.
Yes that stock holder report will be very interesting it's due in May 2010 isn't it? The next report after that will also be interesting as it will reveal if Cryptic earned their revenue targetted bonus installment.
I have a feeling they will of at least meet or exceeded their targetted numbers due to the fact how overly vocal they've been. They yanked that crazy sale everyone screamed about which was probably meant as more of a cushion. They would have went forward with it or changed it up a little if they really needed the revenue imo.
Do you have sales figures on that 20,000,000 number? Cause I can provide decent evidence that STO has less that 200,000 paid accounts in total.
Your argumant also completely ignores scale and thus is a silly pastiche. If WoW had only ever gotten less than 200K subscribers, it would also be a failure. Second, WoW has been out for 5 years now. STO lost 50% of its subscriber base in three months. Third, Star Trek is a gigantic IP and the average Star Trek convention puts BlizzCon to shame. There is no excuse for a Star Trek MMO doing so poorly.
Any more silly excuses you'd wish to make?
I do not need sales figures since I am not arguing the numbers, I am arguing the fail logic you used.
If you want brag about numbers, you need to stop pulling them out of your nose. Your figures are just random numbers with no back up. All you can work with is 'well over 100k subs' quote from the interview.
IP has no bearing on retention rates nor first 3 months speaks for anything. For that, you would actually need some reasoning.
Talking about silliness, you rather be more careful with your own posts....
I provided sources for my numbers, why don't you attack those instead of claiming that they simply don't exist?
How can it ever be argued in any stretch of the imagination that an MMO that has lost around 50% of its subscriber base in three months is doing well?
Do you have sales figures on that 20,000,000 number? Cause I can provide decent evidence that STO has less that 200,000 paid accounts in total.
Your argumant also completely ignores scale and thus is a silly pastiche. If WoW had only ever gotten less than 200K subscribers, it would also be a failure. Second, WoW has been out for 5 years now. STO lost 50% of its subscriber base in three months. Third, Star Trek is a gigantic IP and the average Star Trek convention puts BlizzCon to shame. There is no excuse for a Star Trek MMO doing so poorly.
Any more silly excuses you'd wish to make?
I do not need sales figures since I am not arguing the numbers, I am arguing the fail logic you used.
If you want brag about numbers, you need to stop pulling them out of your nose. Your figures are just random numbers with no back up. All you can work with is 'well over 100k subs' quote from the interview.
IP has no bearing on retention rates nor first 3 months speaks for anything. For that, you would actually need some reasoning.
Talking about silliness, you rather be more careful with your own posts....
I might have missed something but you seem tohave lost your way along this post, first you say that he brags about numbers pulled out of his nose and that his figures are random with no back up yet you mention the only real figure that Cryptic can be quoted as to subs and that was 100k subs. I don't see how anyone could have a problem making an assessment based off the only info they've given, since it is them who are not forthcoming with the information.
I can almost agree with your statement that IP may have less bearing on retention rates for a few simple reasons, the great job devs have done inmaking disasterous games that either anger an entire community or fail to even hold the interest of a community. If you don't think retention rates in the first three months speak for anything why is it the games known to have the highest subscriber base also are the games that did not see the kinds of declines made by games like AOC and to a lesser extent STO (lesser only because they couldn't even outsell AOC). Vanguard,Darkfall,AOC,Anarchy Online are just a few games I can name that had launches bad enough to turn away large portions of their player base and none holds a particularly high place in the mmo space, I hope that is enough reasoning for you.
I don't sugarcoat my dislike of STO but I don't begrudge anyone else their right to still enjoy the game and sub to it but if you try to deny those facts you only lie to yourself. The IP is too huge to have attracted so little attention to begin with and it is losing subscribers at a far greater rate than adding them. Due to the way Cryptic makes their games cheap they can survive on far less subs than the average mmo and that's something they said so I doubt this game will be going anywhere soon but for those who do continue to play STO you will be a lonely bunch.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Originally posted by jaxsundane I might have missed something but you seem tohave lost your way along this post, first you say that he brags about numbers pulled out of his nose and that his figures are random with no back up yet you mention the only real figure that Cryptic can be quoted as to subs and that was 100k subs. I don't see how anyone could have a problem making an assessment based off the only info they've given, since it is them who are not forthcoming with the information.
The 'numbers' are nothing more than blind counts of account handles from Captain Database. Database no one really knows what contains, how it is created and maintained. This 'source' is not reliable and the accuracy of the guess based on it is completely unknown.
Than again, there is no actual number for active subscribers. The only hint is the quote 'well over 100k' as I pointed out earlier. That is actually the only 'data' you can work with until more information about Captain database is released.
How they figured out 50% subscriber loss is still a mystery to me, yet they claim it a fact...
It is sheer doom & gloom trolling only.
Originally posted by jaxsundane I can almost agree with your statement that IP may have less bearing on retention rates for a few simple reasons, the great job devs have done inmaking disasterous games that either anger an entire community or fail to even hold the interest of a community. If you don't think retention rates in the first three months speak for anything why is it the games known to have the highest subscriber base also are the games that did not see the kinds of declines made by games like AOC and to a lesser extent STO (lesser only because they couldn't even outsell AOC). Vanguard,Darkfall,AOC,Anarchy Online are just a few games I can name that had launches bad enough to turn away large portions of their player base and none holds a particularly high place in the mmo space, I hope that is enough reasoning for you. I don't sugarcoat my dislike of STO but I don't begrudge anyone else their right to still enjoy the game and sub to it but if you try to deny those facts you only lie to yourself. The IP is too huge to have attracted so little attention to begin with and it is losing subscribers at a far greater rate than adding them. Due to the way Cryptic makes their games cheap they can survive on far less subs than the average mmo and that's something they said so I doubt this game will be going anywhere soon but for those who do continue to play STO you will be a lonely bunch.
IP is only lore and visuals and does not stand for any guarantees like attention or w/e.
One thing you need to realize that MMO gaming market is nothing it used to be when AO, EQ or WoW was released. It is like 5x bigger today.
The MMO market grows rapidly so does the demand and buy force. Seeing 1M sales for launch and than rapid drop is nothing else but mixture of marketing and targeting at larger audience. Something, that was not possible to see before and something we will see more in the future like we see with other consumer products.
100k subs IS impressive subscriber base and significant market share. It is far from a failure(market perspective) if a game can reach it.
The MMO market grows rapidly so does the demand and buy force. Seeing 1M sales for launch and than rapid drop is nothing else but mixture of marketing and targeting at larger audience. Something, that was not possible to see before and something we will see more in the future like we see with other consumer products.
100k subs IS impressive subscriber base and significant market share. It is far from a failure(market perspective) if a game can reach it.
Well if that's really true, then SWG was the second most sucessful MMO ever. lol
100k subs IS impressive subscriber base and significant market share. It is far from a failure(market perspective) if a game can reach it.
If they can say they have over 100k a year from now, then that is somewhat successful. Saying over 100k subs less than two months after launch? Not so much. I bet they couldn't claim 100k subs TODAY, much less a year from now.
I might have missed something but you seem tohave lost your way along this post, first you say that he brags about numbers pulled out of his nose and that his figures are random with no back up yet you mention the only real figure that Cryptic can be quoted as to subs and that was 100k subs. I don't see how anyone could have a problem making an assessment based off the only info they've given, since it is them who are not forthcoming with the information.
I can almost agree with your statement that IP may have less bearing on retention rates for a few simple reasons, the great job devs have done inmaking disasterous games that either anger an entire community or fail to even hold the interest of a community. If you don't think retention rates in the first three months speak for anything why is it the games known to have the highest subscriber base also are the games that did not see the kinds of declines made by games like AOC and to a lesser extent STO (lesser only because they couldn't even outsell AOC). Vanguard,Darkfall,AOC,Anarchy Online are just a few games I can name that had launches bad enough to turn away large portions of their player base and none holds a particularly high place in the mmo space, I hope that is enough reasoning for you.
I don't sugarcoat my dislike of STO but I don't begrudge anyone else their right to still enjoy the game and sub to it but if you try to deny those facts you only lie to yourself. The IP is too huge to have attracted so little attention to begin with and it is losing subscribers at a far greater rate than adding them. Due to the way Cryptic makes their games cheap they can survive on far less subs than the average mmo and that's something they said so I doubt this game will be going anywhere soon but for those who do continue to play STO you will be a lonely bunch.
They already are a lonely bunch. There are already threads complaining about the new zoning rules. People have to be of similiar rank in order to share the same zones. Due to the low subs, players are entering zones with no one to play with. It's especially bad at the lower levels.
Wow did that CDF member get banned in STO? Is that why hes here trolling?
CDF members never get banned. They are allowed to tear apart someone who says anything negative against STO and are allowed to flame but the Mods are quick to squelch, edit, delete or ban anyone who tries the same thing against one of them. The STO forums are just like the Stargate Worlds forums and it would not surprise if the CDF is made up off those same people that finaly realized that their beloved game was never going to be made.
Comments
I do not need sales figures since I am not arguing the numbers, I am arguing the fail logic you used.
If you want brag about numbers, you need to stop pulling them out of your nose. Your figures are just random numbers with no back up. All you can work with is 'well over 100k subs' quote from the interview.
IP has no bearing on retention rates nor first 3 months speaks for anything. For that, you would actually need some reasoning.
Talking about silliness, you rather be more careful with your own posts....
I have a feeling they will of at least meet or exceeded their targetted numbers due to the fact how overly vocal they've been. They yanked that crazy sale everyone screamed about which was probably meant as more of a cushion. They would have went forward with it or changed it up a little if they really needed the revenue imo.
I provided sources for my numbers, why don't you attack those instead of claiming that they simply don't exist?
How can it ever be argued in any stretch of the imagination that an MMO that has lost around 50% of its subscriber base in three months is doing well?
I might have missed something but you seem tohave lost your way along this post, first you say that he brags about numbers pulled out of his nose and that his figures are random with no back up yet you mention the only real figure that Cryptic can be quoted as to subs and that was 100k subs. I don't see how anyone could have a problem making an assessment based off the only info they've given, since it is them who are not forthcoming with the information.
I can almost agree with your statement that IP may have less bearing on retention rates for a few simple reasons, the great job devs have done inmaking disasterous games that either anger an entire community or fail to even hold the interest of a community. If you don't think retention rates in the first three months speak for anything why is it the games known to have the highest subscriber base also are the games that did not see the kinds of declines made by games like AOC and to a lesser extent STO (lesser only because they couldn't even outsell AOC). Vanguard,Darkfall,AOC,Anarchy Online are just a few games I can name that had launches bad enough to turn away large portions of their player base and none holds a particularly high place in the mmo space, I hope that is enough reasoning for you.
I don't sugarcoat my dislike of STO but I don't begrudge anyone else their right to still enjoy the game and sub to it but if you try to deny those facts you only lie to yourself. The IP is too huge to have attracted so little attention to begin with and it is losing subscribers at a far greater rate than adding them. Due to the way Cryptic makes their games cheap they can survive on far less subs than the average mmo and that's something they said so I doubt this game will be going anywhere soon but for those who do continue to play STO you will be a lonely bunch.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The 'numbers' are nothing more than blind counts of account handles from Captain Database. Database no one really knows what contains, how it is created and maintained. This 'source' is not reliable and the accuracy of the guess based on it is completely unknown.
Than again, there is no actual number for active subscribers. The only hint is the quote 'well over 100k' as I pointed out earlier. That is actually the only 'data' you can work with until more information about Captain database is released.
The topic already discussed here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/275330/page/1
How they figured out 50% subscriber loss is still a mystery to me, yet they claim it a fact...
It is sheer doom & gloom trolling only.
IP is only lore and visuals and does not stand for any guarantees like attention or w/e.
One thing you need to realize that MMO gaming market is nothing it used to be when AO, EQ or WoW was released. It is like 5x bigger today.
The MMO market grows rapidly so does the demand and buy force. Seeing 1M sales for launch and than rapid drop is nothing else but mixture of marketing and targeting at larger audience. Something, that was not possible to see before and something we will see more in the future like we see with other consumer products.
100k subs IS impressive subscriber base and significant market share. It is far from a failure(market perspective) if a game can reach it.
Well if that's really true, then SWG was the second most sucessful MMO ever. lol
If they can say they have over 100k a year from now, then that is somewhat successful. Saying over 100k subs less than two months after launch? Not so much. I bet they couldn't claim 100k subs TODAY, much less a year from now.
They already are a lonely bunch. There are already threads complaining about the new zoning rules. People have to be of similiar rank in order to share the same zones. Due to the low subs, players are entering zones with no one to play with. It's especially bad at the lower levels.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Wow did that CDF member get banned in STO? Is that why hes here trolling?
CDF members never get banned. They are allowed to tear apart someone who says anything negative against STO and are allowed to flame but the Mods are quick to squelch, edit, delete or ban anyone who tries the same thing against one of them. The STO forums are just like the Stargate Worlds forums and it would not surprise if the CDF is made up off those same people that finaly realized that their beloved game was never going to be made.