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Yes there is a lack of innovation in MMORPGs if that was your question OP. Seems a lot of people took your post as asking if there was too much repetition within a given title.
Change is happening and we're slowly moving away from Diku / EQ / WOW style games. It's not going to happen in a huge leap, but small steps. A little crafting focused apocalypse game here, an unsucessful (imo) lobby-based space game over there. Not worlds apart but moving in a different direction at least.
Currently Playing: The Game
Originally posted by Toquio3 Originally posted by brostyn Originally posted by Toquio3 Originally posted by brostyn Originally posted by Toquio3 If you havent played Ryzom, EVE or Darkfall, you have no grounds to complain about the current state of mmorpgs.
One of these elitist EVE guys, eh? I know you're going to pull out the ol' "you must play WOW" card, but I actually don't. Spare me your insults. EVE is just as repetitive as all MMOs. Yes, MMOs are not only getting repetitive they have always been like that. Back to the days of UO and EQ.
Dont know why you're being defensive pre-emptively, but since you are, let me be pre-emptively polite: Im not a elitist EVE guy. I play EVE though, and also play Ryzom. Like them or not, they are original, and they are high quality games. And I dont hate WoW, played it for 4 years, had tons of fun.
You seriously don't know why someone would be put on the defensive when talking to an EVE purist? Well, I see you're kinda new around here.
Im not "very" new, maybe compared to you (2004). Im just not a EVE purist. I really like EVE, dunno if that makes me one. Dont care either =P
Please read the disclaimer. I tried to edit it immediately. I know how serious some people take this forum stuff.
Originally posted by brostyn Originally posted by Toquio3 Originally posted by brostyn Originally posted by Toquio3 Originally posted by brostyn Originally posted by Toquio3 If you havent played Ryzom, EVE or Darkfall, you have no grounds to complain about the current state of mmorpgs.
Read MY disclaimer damnit! =P
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Indeed it will take some time for the change but when it does come I will be a very happy gamer
Rock n' Roll Ninja
That's still only a handful of games that are different. Most MMOs are pretty much the same, so I would say yes, they are getting too repetitive. I'm glad there are some that are different than the norm, but most of them aren't. The genre is getting pretty stale and many players are getting tired.
I'm at the point where I don't even want to play MMOs anymore, but I'm addicted. I'm not playing anything atm, but I'm still on the search for something. I'm definitely worried about buying new releases because I've been burned too many times. I have no problem paying the sub fees, but buying the game, then paying sub fees, then realizing you don't like the game is too much for me.
I'm hoping more games follow the GW model (or something similar), then I won't feel too bad about buying and not liking. Either that, or games should release with trials from day one. If they're not confident enough in their game to have trials that early, they probably shouldn't have made the game in the first place.
The genre will change in the next decade, you watch.
the only MMO i played that didn't feel like a grind leveling was Planetside. I would like to see MMOs get away from its typical progression and move more toward lateral progression.
what I mean by this is that you can do almost everything as soon as you jump in game. where instead of gaining more HP and more power you gain more options.
as far as darkfall goes ... hey what can i say im a p***y I hate the fact that i would lose everything i have on me and have to re-buy it all just to fight again, although I love PVP. if they ever made a server where only a few items dropped or nothing dropped I would be there in a heart beat.
Originally posted by zephyr86 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/358/All-Points-Bulletin.htmlThe genre will change in the next decade, you watch.
I'm actually going to pick that up, since there is no monthly fee. I won't feel too bad about it if I don't like it. My problem is, I usually like games early on. It's not until endgame that I realize I don't like the game.
Anyway, I will probably get owned to death in APB. I'm horrible at shooters, but I like the GTA feel to the game.
Originally posted by bleyzwun
[snip]I'm hoping more games follow the GW model (or something similar), then I won't feel too bad about buying and not liking. Either that, or games should release with trials from day one. If they're not confident enough in their game to have trials that early, they probably shouldn't have made the game in the first place.
The general view of trials in the MMO community is that if a game has trials near to launch then "its not doing that well", this idea has been formed in players mind because of the trend where games try to get subs by releasing some of their game content for free to 'hook' players in.
The only real "try before you buy" trials out there are called Open Beta's.
Originally posted by bleyzwun That's still only a handful of games that are different. Most MMOs are pretty much the same, so I would say yes, they are getting too repetitive. I'm glad there are some that are different than the norm, but most of them aren't. The genre is getting pretty stale and many players are getting tired.I'm at the point where I don't even want to play MMOs anymore, but I'm addicted. I'm not playing anything atm, but I'm still on the search for something. I'm definitely worried about buying new releases because I've been burned too many times. I have no problem paying the sub fees, but buying the game, then paying sub fees, then realizing you don't like the game is too much for me. I'm hoping more games follow the GW model (or something similar), then I won't feel too bad about buying and not liking. Either that, or games should release with trials from day one. If they're not confident enough in their game to have trials that early, they probably shouldn't have made the game in the first place.
Im really hopeful about GW2 because, if its a success, and its finally proven that a company can release a top quality mmorpg with no monthly fee and still be successful, then I think the entire industry will be forced to listen.
I think zephyr86 is right. Look what's coming down the pike, there is some variation in the genre being produced. I think more than anything the failure of these WoW-clones is going to be a good thing, it's sending a message to the industry that says, "Look just because Blizz did it this way and succeeded doesn't mean you can, I can tell a rip-off and if I'm just going to play for a WoW-clone I might as well play WoW." They're getting the message, hold out for about 7+years and see. I think OP will be surprised at the way the genre looks by then.
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
Originally posted by bleyzwun Originally posted by zephyr86 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/358/All-Points-Bulletin.htmlThe genre will change in the next decade, you watch.
I'm actually going to pick that up, since there is no monthly fee. I won't feel too bad about it if I don't like it. My problem is, I usually like games early on. It's not until endgame that I realize I don't like the game.
I'm not sure that APB is going to be completely free apart from the retail box price, since they have stated that they "wont be doing the traditional business models of MMO's currently on the market", which could mean a number of things, but I think that an 'Item Mall' business model is going to very likely in a game where customization of your character is a big selling point.
And to be honest I dont mind Item Malls as a way for companies to make money, Playstation Network & [email protected] do this for clothing and other peripherals to spruce up your online avatar, and it seems to work for them.
Originally posted by RebelNinja How many of you have ever downloaded an mmorpg, only to find out that once again, you are making a character with the same basics of every other rpg you have ever played? If you have played World of warcraft, you've played every MMORPG out there. Of course I say that loosely, considering there are some distinct games that can actually be fun, but I don't know how much more of these games I can take. Making a warrior, or a mage, or a ranger, or some sort of assassin, grinding through enemies until you level up and go grind through some different enemies, only to get a new set of armor and a weapon that you have to keep for 10 more levels. Come on developers, use that creativity!
I am not sure what creativity you are looking for?The purpose of playing is to kill stuff,weather it is players of mobs,and to do this you need gear.The alternative to this is play MYST?or a Entropia universe type game?really there is nothing more than that to gaming.
The way you keep it fun is with varied content,various different ways to kill stuff and of course by adding in content like crafting.FFXi also had a huge gardening database,and tons of other content like Arena,you capture images and create a pet that battles in arena for you.You could get a Chocobo egg and hatch it and raise it to carry a certain dna.
There is other ideas like mobs attacking structures.outposts,cities always add fun.Ideas like players starting totally naked and half to fight there way through to gain back pieces of gear and eventually battle to the top or end of the structure.There is actually a lot of ideas that can be introduced as innovative combat.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by zephyr86 Originally posted by bleyzwun
Really? That doesn't make any sense to me. If anything it would show the confidence they have in their product. I'm not talking about trials a month after release. I'm talking about from day one (maybe have a separate server or 2 for trial accounts).
The reason I say this is, many people buy a game only to realize they don't like it. If they had trials from day one, nobody would have to buy anything. If the game is good, then most of them would make the purchase. Then again, I've liked games early on, but hated them at end game.
Originally posted by zephyr86 Originally posted by bleyzwun Originally posted by zephyr86 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/358/All-Points-Bulletin.htmlThe genre will change in the next decade, you watch.
Yeah, I don't mind micro transactions either. As long as it's fluff and not something to make buyers overpowered. I find the whole f2p thing interesting. Too bad I haven't found one worthy of playing yet.
If you mean the game mechanics themselves are too repetitive, I think that it is a defining aspect of MMO's and not one likely to soon change. EVE has its repetitive elements in PVE, but I don't mind doing them because they fund my PVP activities which I've never found repetitive. (in EVE anyways, can't say the same for battleground or arena combat)
if you mean each new game that comes out is sticking too much to the standard formula established with EQ, WOW, and many others than yes, I agree and while there are a few notable titles to play, it would be nice if we some originality from the big houses out there.
SWTOR might be one such title, GW2 another, FFXIV will bring its own flavor to a familiar genre but should still be quite a bit different from the standard mold.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
well i think your right, pretty much al mmorpg's offer you the same exact things, hack and slash exploration pvp and raids and or instacnces.. the thing is, some are better at offering these things than others. and some do it with style.
for example. swg, its not sandbox but is very close to being sandbox. it still holds true to the standard mmorpg genre. it gives you everything any other mmorpg can give you but it gives you it as loosely as it can, this enables the player to put a little bit of himself into his game play experience meaning the game isnt completely defined by its mechanics and relies heavily on player intervention. for starters, the world market place is more or less 100% player controlled and run, and i think thats great for any mmorpg. its adds to the feel of emersion. also the planets, while not endless they are large enough to make it feel like you have traveled vast distances to reach your goals. also the crafting is so inspireing to people. just being able to make your own fashion and put your own stats on the item and actually have a degree of control over how good that stat is is just pure genius for an mmorpg. and it also offers you space combat missions pve and pvp with story content too. not too bad i would say for an almost 7 year old game. infact its still better than most other games in its league today. it utterly eats wow for breakfast as far as im concerned. ive played wow and ive played swg and swg beats wow for me every time. there is just so much more to do in swg and it feels more free its more persistant hell its just a better game.
another title that nocks spots of its competition is eve-online. although this is a sandbox mmorpg, but then why do people get anoyed when others use eve-online as a comparrison to other games. is it because eve is a sandbox and gives the player complete control over how the game works for him and possibly if their cunning enough for others too. i have to admit while not being the best at eve, just knowing that their are players in the game that pretty much hold the whole community in their hands is awe inspireing for me. it basically tells me that the the game is boundless that anything is possible if you can persued enough people to follow you and work with you . eve is about the community more so than playing the game, the community in essence provides its own game play and story. its about epic alliances and guilds either working side by side or snapping at each others throats, its about being sneaky and cunning its about who controls the most and who can hold onto what they own. its full of diplomacy and polotics, the game has its own culture for crying out loud!! infact it has 4 primary cultures and player created cultures too. eve online as far as im concerned based of my experience with many many many mmorpg titles is with out a doub the best most exilareting mmorpg ive ever layed eyes on.
alot of you will bitch and whine about how you cant get ahead or how long it takes to be good, that to me is just moaning because the game isnt just about strapping guns to your ship and going round blasting people, thats a 5 year olds veiw from playing first eprson shooters on his xbox at home. online game are and should always be more than just a multi player xbox title. and eve demonstrates how its possible.
but then you get games that are brand new, such as startrek online. i dont even want to comment on it but im going to anyway. ive played many great games. when i say great i mean in terms of playability and its community and support from its design team.. i dont mean subscriptions or most players in the world as wow would claim its fame to. so yea startrek , its 2010 our technology has never been so advanced we can do things in games now that was only in our imaginations 7 years ago. and what do cryptic studios do? they get their hands on possibly the greatest science fictiion franchise name on the planet startrek!!! and what do they do with it?????? they cram the entire startrek theme and world into a shoe box and call it a good game!!!!! i was waiting for sto ever since perpetual studios was developing it, and i have to say they had some pretty cool and r adical ideas which would have been brilliant if it all worked out. but it never. when i finally got to beta test sto i thought to myself cool im actually getting to beta test the most anticipated game for the year. i was over excited.
my first impressions where ok, the game fealt ok it was fairly stable sort of! it did crash like twice a day for me and the servers where down more than the game was up. after about 2 days of getting past the starting stages and working out how everything works and where everything was it started to dawn on me, cryptic have rushed this game out the door for some reason. it was unfinished. very unfinished. infact it was barely started. now take eve online, its what 7 years old and it has the biggest game server in the world. it has freedom of travel and no loading screens. not bad for a old old old game. so you automatically expect any other space game at the very least to feel and look as free as eve does, how wrong could i have been. sto is a shoe box connected to anotyher shoe box which is connected to another shoe box. these shoe boxes are called sectors and in these shoe boxes are systems. like 8 or so epr shoe box and it wasnt very spacey at all. infact it was lacking space that much that it fealt like you was in some kind of lobby it was like a 3d browser game. it was a pile of crap. it looked terrible too and the graphics where cloned from champions and most of the background music sounds like its been lifted from city of heroes too. and literraly every single aspect of the game is instance. you cannot go to a diffrent area with outh a bloody loading screen. infact you spend more time loading the game than you do playing it.
so along with its down time and its loading screens for everything i think its safe to say the game feels nothing like star trek or a space game. it just looks like one on the packaging. they have completely done them selves a disjustice. also the game is incredibly easy to finish. i myself reached end game content had all the best geer and ships with all skills unlocked at my skill point cap in just over 3 weeks it takes about an hour to get into a pvp game too. so even pvp was abused too. sto is alot worse than wow and wow is terrible!!
sto is easily the worst mmo in existance today from my point of view. too small no emersion no team work very little in regaurds to community support. the game is soloable in its entirity too easy. and so low tech in such a high tech world. the game is tiny and it feels tiny it looks tiny it plays tiny it is tiny. and its realy realy crap too.
and im a startrek fan too.
mmo's should be in all cases be about the community that supports it. an mmo should be massive it should be multi player in all cases and it should feel like its online. the mmorpg games need feel like rpg's sure story helps but the rpg part stands for role playing game.. with the key word being role playing, this doesnt mean you have to role play it just clearly states your playing a role of a charecter in this make believe world. so there for for rpg to be good the game needs to emerce the charecters into the game world in as many ways as possible giving the player the freedom to interact with the game enviroment as freely as possible. not many game can provide this. or they just get the understanding of rpg completely wrong. which is why i say look at eve online and swg, eve online have the rpg thing down to a "T" that game is all about your interaction in its vast fictional world, its about your action and its repercussions. swg is also pretty good with giving players an rpg type feeling from there game too. its not because of story of content its about the mechanics and the lack of boundries. as soon as you add boundries and rules to an mmorpg it stops being an rpg. it becomes an mmog. players want freedom and eve and swg give that freedom. no other game ive played gives you the freedom that you get from those two titles. i mean take wow. what is that. sure the game world is a decent size, but its just quest driven and the content is the same for every one and all there is too look forward to is pvp at the end with the best items. its just dull and crap. and the graphics are for babies. sto dull and crap poor visuals poor world poor story poor everything poor effort.
all other mmo's available do ex actly the same thing look exactly the same have the exact same content, and have been this way now for well over 5 years or so. its not wow's fault and the finger cant be pointed at any one particular game developer. but why do they have to copy one another? why does everything feel like a clone of something else ? the only games that ont have these feelings are eve-online and swg lol. i know alot of people will flame this for useing eve and swg but its true. they are just very diffrent from every other mmo game today and they are brilliant.
maybe im so awe struck with eve and s wg because they are so diffrent and i really like change. maybe its because eve-online and swg has a mature community, but saying mature would be wrogn as the average age of online gamers is between 30-35 its a proven fact. so maturity isnt the reason. it must be because they are diffrent. or is it just that the games got it right in every way? eve more so than swg. swg was made worse by sony but still a pretty good game. the only fault i have with eve is its harsh learning curve and pvp system in its so called noob area, empire space. i do actually think it to be a little unfair when an experience corporation of vetteran players for small corps with the intent of declareing war on new players in an effort to get cheap thrills. and they do this because they simply cannot handle the games true nature which is created in 0.0 space. ive been playing eve for about 4 years now or so maybe a bit longer and i see it every single day. a bunch of pro's beating up on a bunch of noobs, there excuse is, we dont want the game filling up with new players!!! i remember my early days iun eve too. every bloody week we was at war, trying to protect our efforts and progression, but the pro players who cannot get along in the pro areas of the game are relentless.
eve is definately a mind job when you first start playing it, its soul destroying in the sence that if you can survive for the first 2 months then you have a good chance of getting along in eve. if all the pk's are getting to you chance are you will leave the game. those that stick around experience the greatest play experience in an online game they will have ever experienced from an mmo rpg. the game does everything. its like a simulation of what it is. its as complex as a flight sim. as indepth as a tycoon title interms of micro management. i loved it.
so yea too many mmorpg's are the same as each other, there are those few exceptions out there!