TBH, NGE or no NGE, I'd probably still be playing if not for the collections and instance grinding, and the constant nerfing.
It's a royal pain to grind out a collection for 9 months, collect enough tokens for a full set of jewelry, either grind out or buy a set of 35s for your gear, and then have SOE decide your OP and make all that work worthless with a nerf.
Actually, another thing that really annoys me is the concentration of PVP to the Restuss area. Instead of having these PVP players in groups, roaming the planets and cities and getting in the fun, engaging fights we used to ahve, they just sit at the line and talk shit until they can get a zerg together, rush the line, and the process repeats.
Oh, and let's not forget GCW rank decay. I love standing around with my thumb up my back side at base busts for hours at a time every week.
Collections are not forced upon anyone and as such you do not have to do them. There are some that you want to do to get the best gear.
Not sure what profession nerf you are talking about and this is something that happends in all MMOs. Just part of the process and if can't handle it then MMOs are probably not for you. That is not to say that is does not also piss me off, only that I get over it and move on.
Since the GCW updates we have had, not all PVP occurs in Restuss. However, the fact remains that only ceratin areas in the game are suitiably capable of effectively handling large PVP encounters. Restuss and the Static PVP bases are still the best places for this to occur. That does not mean it is the only place large PVP occurs.
If you are still hung up on BB'ing and Rank Decay then you need to bome back. While rank decay has not changed, the way that GCW points are earned has. There are viable means for attaining GCW rank via PVP and PVE and neither takes as much time and effort as it did in the past. BB'ing is all but dead for these reasons. Now most BB'ing only happends for planetary zone control since it is faster to go PVP to get your points.
Aion, AoC, STO, Fallen Earth, LotRO, Global Agenda...tbh, pretty much ANY modern MMO has much better character customization and PvP.
Crafting is the only thing you might get SWG on...but it's a dead/dying part of the game mate. Name the last time you saw new schematics added that were more than "one use". 2 TCG reject houses a year ago? Name another.
SWG PvP is nothing but endless buffing, grouping up and running as a pack into Restuss. Restuss RUINED SWG PvP. The entire "hoard" mentality was created by Restuss. Buffing for 20-min (It takes no less than 20min for any 'normal' player) to buff and get out PvPing is simply NOT fun. Never was, never will be. The fast paced FPS pace of combat with Oregon Trail speed of buffing sucks.
It's great that you enjoy it, and you are certainly free to promote the game here and anywhere else you feel like posting. I simply totally disagree with your take on any of the things you mentioned being any good in SWG - as well as listing my reasons for feeling the way I do.
The only one you mention that is SciFi is STO and that is a pile of theme park crap. All the others are fantasy MMOs that are a dime a dozen. Also, if you think those games have more character customization, then I think you have not been in SWG since they added the appearance tab. Not to mention that Ents have cosmetic abilities that allow you to completely redo the toons physical characteristics.
Crafting is alive and well in SWG and I make millions of credits every week. Anyone that says other wise is just not playing atm.
What MMO game that has PVP/PVE does not have buffs and does not have grouping for PVP? Buffing taking 20 minutes? Maybe if you don't have access to Ents or Medics, however that is not the case on Flurry and easy to get buffed in less than 10 minutes. Horde mentality exists in all large scale PVP MMOs. Besides we also have instanced PVP now if you can't handle being out numbered.
We can agree to disagree. Been playing SWG since Sept. 2004 and still having a blast. Didn't even rage quit due to CU or NGE. Would love to see another good SciFi MMO and KOTOR looks like another fail themepark MMO to me. Might look into Fallen Earth however post apocolyptic Earth is not all that interesting to me.
The only one you mention that is SciFi is STO and that is a pile of theme park crap. All the others are fantasy MMOs that are a dime a dozen. Also, if you think those games have more character customization, then I think you have not been in SWG since they added the appearance tab. Not to mention that Ents have cosmetic abilities that allow you to completely redo the toons physical characteristics.
Crafting is alive and well in SWG and I make millions of credits every week. Anyone that says other wise is just not playing atm.
What MMO game that has PVP/PVE does not have buffs and does not have grouping for PVP? Buffing taking 20 minutes? Maybe if you don't have access to Ents or Medics, however that is not the case on Flurry and easy to get buffed in less than 10 minutes. Horde mentality exists in all large scale PVP MMOs. Besides we also have instanced PVP now if you can't handle being out numbered.
We can agree to disagree. Been playing SWG since Sept. 2004 and still having a blast. Didn't even rage quit due to CU or NGE. Would love to see another good SciFi MMO and KOTOR looks like another fail themepark MMO to me. Might look into Fallen Earth however post apocolyptic Earth is not all that interesting to me.
I may not know as much as you about Galaxies, but trust me, I'm not some "disgruntled NGE quitter" and I feel I'm quite knowledgeable on SWG still...especially on PvP.
You didn't say "SciFi" - and character customization in SWG is lame compared to MANY newer MMOs - I know ALL about A-Tab mate and I stand by my statement.
Please tell, exactly what do you craft that makes you so much money? What do you sell them for?
But buffs...Buffs SWG style are VERY unique to SWG...THANK GOD!!!! That is NOT a good thing.
It's increasingly difficult for any new player to start or enjoy Galaxies because of the buffs - 5-piece Jewelry, 35's, familiar, Ent, Medic, Officer, Village, Food/Drink, PuPs, GCW Officer , GCW base stims, TCG loot cards...want me to list more that are in-game? Meatlump, Heroic (TK/ISD), Commando, Jedi, spice. Hoth Radio...the list is almost freaking ENDLESS!
That list above is one reason SWG will NEVER appeal to new players...and ironically, one of the things the NGE was designed to reduce.
Obviously you must log out in a buff house, great, but not many people do. I too could get buffed in less than 20min if needed, but it is most certainly not the "norm". Travel time, Medic, Ent, Officer stims - those all take time.
The "hoard" mentality IS worse is SWG because there is ONE used "battlefield"...Restuss. The "instanced" battlefields are a complete joke dude, they're empty 95+% of the time OR they're exploited for easy tokens because SoE decided to add in "shinnies" and "trinkets" rather than appeal and fun.
And please don't pretend to know me or what I like...I LOVE being outnumbered!! My BEST time PvPing was ALWAYS when it was just a few of us...that way "WE" controlled the PvP - the enemy came to us on OUR terms! The Restuss "hoard" is a cancer to SWG that should have been dealt with years ago because World PvP > Restuss PvP.
And just so you know, we simply have differing opinions and views on the game...I'm not arguing anything but claims here - this really isn't personal, so please don't take it as such
And TOR...
TOR may surprise a lotta people with how OPEN it is. It's not "instanced" and it will offer a seamless world, not just "cities". (link)
Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine
Quote: "Going to have crafting and harvesting, going to have guilds and social activities" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine
Quote:" “Hey, if I’m really into more the crafting, harvesting, auction house type of gameplay, are you going to support that?” "Absolutely" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine
TBH, NGE or no NGE, I'd probably still be playing if not for the collections and instance grinding, and the constant nerfing.
It's a royal pain to grind out a collection for 9 months, collect enough tokens for a full set of jewelry, either grind out or buy a set of 35s for your gear, and then have SOE decide your OP and make all that work worthless with a nerf.
Actually, another thing that really annoys me is the concentration of PVP to the Restuss area. Instead of having these PVP players in groups, roaming the planets and cities and getting in the fun, engaging fights we used to ahve, they just sit at the line and talk shit until they can get a zerg together, rush the line, and the process repeats.
Oh, and let's not forget GCW rank decay. I love standing around with my thumb up my back side at base busts for hours at a time every week.
Collections are not forced upon anyone and as such you do not have to do them. There are some that you want to do to get the best gear.
Not sure what profession nerf you are talking about and this is something that happends in all MMOs. Just part of the process and if can't handle it then MMOs are probably not for you. That is not to say that is does not also piss me off, only that I get over it and move on.
Since the GCW updates we have had, not all PVP occurs in Restuss. However, the fact remains that only ceratin areas in the game are suitiably capable of effectively handling large PVP encounters. Restuss and the Static PVP bases are still the best places for this to occur. That does not mean it is the only place large PVP occurs.
If you are still hung up on BB'ing and Rank Decay then you need to bome back. While rank decay has not changed, the way that GCW points are earned has. There are viable means for attaining GCW rank via PVP and PVE and neither takes as much time and effort as it did in the past. BB'ing is all but dead for these reasons. Now most BB'ing only happends for planetary zone control since it is faster to go PVP to get your points.
Any other reasons?
Your fanatic defense of the game does nothing to combat the facts of the matter.
Also, profession (or class) nerfing is not the point I was trying to make....I think I can make a great example if I simply utter the words "Block Suit".
The problem is, and always has been, that SOE has never looked at the "big picture". Remember KD / Dizzy?? Remember resistance / def stacking?? Remember stun comp?? How about ADKs? Holo grinding?? And of course....Base Busting.
All examples of how SOE simply tosses shit into the game, without thinking about the possible consequences of doing so. And then once the community has adapted to it, and incorporated it into their game play, the game is changed to rectify the problem that should not have been created in the first place.
There's only so many times you can trash a player's hard work before enough is enough, and they move on.
As to your claim that "only certain areas in the game are suitably capable of effectively handling large PVP enounters".....ahem....BULLSHIT.
We used to have incredible battles in Bestine, AH, Theed, Coronet, and many other places. Restuss ruined this, as other posters have illustrated quite nicely in this thread.
You need other reasons?? I think SOE's long history of mis-handling the game speaks for itself.
Your fanatic defense of the game does nothing to combat the facts of the matter.
Also, profession (or class) nerfing is not the point I was trying to make....I think I can make a great example if I simply utter the words "Block Suit".
The problem is, and always has been, that SOE has never looked at the "big picture". Remember KD / Dizzy?? Remember resistance / def stacking?? Remember stun comp?? How about ADKs? Holo grinding?? And of course....Base Busting.
All examples of how SOE simply tosses shit into the game, without thinking about the possible consequences of doing so. And then once the community has adapted to it, and incorporated it into their game play, the game is changed to rectify the problem that should not have been created in the first place.
There's only so many times you can trash a player's hard work before enough is enough, and they move on.
As to your claim that "only certain areas in the game are suitably capable of effectively handling large PVP enounters".....ahem....BULLSHIT.
We used to have incredible battles in Bestine, AH, Theed, Coronet, and many other places. Restuss ruined this, as other posters have illustrated quite nicely in this thread.
You need other reasons?? I think SOE's long history of mis-handling the game speaks for itself.
Just so. QFT on both..
I remember 150 vs 150 battles rolling for hours between bestine and anchorhead, and I played on a smaller server. And they happened every weekend, at a minumum, sometimes more. We had huge battles holding coronet or moenia almost as much. PvP was everywhere, and (what a surprise) there was almost no lag by comparison to the current game.
As to the other point, SOE has always been terribly shortsighted as to what changes they make. Instead of actually thinking about the "system" they were always nerfing this prof or that FOTM, when they should have spent their time balancing things on a group and not individual level. Imbalances SHOULD be part of it. A melee guy should lose to a rifleman at long range and vice versa, but SOE stupidly tried for years to make everyone and everything "equal".
SOE has an unrivalled ability to turn gold into lead.
If SWG was a good enough game then people would be playing it, as it is, SWG is just a lesson to be learned by all MMO developers. i won't bother going over all the things they did wrong, its been covered more than enough times already. best to just leave it by saying, SWG was to its players, a good game, and now it isnt.
SWG is better then when NGE hit, but it has MASSIVE hardware issues, and way too many dead servers.
SWG would be solid if SOE STOPS putting all the player sub cash into it's terrible TCG scam (trading card game is just a scam of a cash shop), UPGRADE SERVER HARDWARE, and CONSOLIDATE SERVERS.
Funny when you compare SWG to EVE. Both similar in age.
SWG started with about 300k subs and has done NOTHING to upgrade server hardware and graphics engine/code. SWG now is LUCKY to have 20k subs. SWG code is a horrid frankenstein patched mess, on poorly outdated tech.
EVE started with about 20k subs from some small no-name company and over the years has upgraded to the point it barely resembles it's original self. EVE runs on the most advanced server tech/hardware out of ANY MMO. EVE now has roughly 300k subs.
Instead of it's MUCH NEEDED upgrades, SWG gives players Ewok love dolls, glowing halos, rainbow wings, and TCG.
I went back to SWG and enjoyed it for awhile, but got tired of being stuck on a dead server with my main, only to grow tired of the populated server, because of terrible server performance.
SWG is better then when NGE hit, but it has MASSIVE hardware issues, and way too many dead servers.
SWG would be solid if SOE STOPS putting all the player sub cash into it's terrible TCG scam (trading card game is just a scam of a cash shop), UPGRADE SERVER HARDWARE, and CONSOLIDATE SERVERS.
Funny when you compare SWG to EVE. Both similar in age.
SWG started with about 300k subs and has done NOTHING to upgrade server hardware and graphics engine/code. SWG now is LUCKY to have 20k subs. SWG code is a horrid frankenstein patched mess, on poorly outdated tech.
EVE started with about 20k subs from some small no-name company and over the years has upgraded to the point it barely resembles it's original self. EVE runs on the most advanced server tech/hardware out of ANY MMO. EVE now has roughly 300k subs.
Instead of it's MUCH NEEDED upgrades, SWG gives players Ewok love dolls, glowing halos, rainbow wings, and TCG.
I went back to SWG and enjoyed it for awhile, but got tired of being stuck on a dead server with my main, only to grow tired of the populated server, because of terrible server performance.
I disagree. Throwing hardware at clearly a software problem will not fix anything. The underlying code is the problem which you note.
Everyone assumes they have never upgraded server hardware. This is not how publicy traded corporations with large datacenters operate. The server hardware is more than likely leased that way it is an expense item rather than a capital item on their financials. Costs usually drop when re-evaluating a new hardware lease vs. extending the old. In some instances there are simple buyouts built into the lease but that is usually with PCs and networking equipment not server/SAN hardware.
Lets not forget how speeding up the clent speed affected network packets and server I/O. The base code of SWG was built to handle 1 action per second. How many actions per second have they increased it by?
I disagree. Throwing hardware at clearly a software problem will not fix anything. The underlying code is the problem which you note.
THIS!!!
I don't think it's the "servers". It IS the code. Adept once addressed it in the Private forum when the PvP Update was being designed. He and Hanse were talking out-loud and Adept mentioned that he could lower server costs by switching AoE effects client side, Hanse said it would be too easy to exploit, Adept replied that rather than calculating and verifying EVERY attack, what if they did every 4th? Lowering server stress BIG time...in the same post he dismissed the idea because they simply wouldn't/didn't/never have the time.
Disclaimer: My recollection of the post is far from "exact" quotes, but it is very accurate and I assure you that the above was the gist of the posts.
I disagree. Throwing hardware at clearly a software problem will not fix anything. The underlying code is the problem which you note.
THIS!!!
I don't think it's the "servers". It IS the code. Adept once addressed it in the Private forum when the PvP Update was being designed. He and Hanse were talking out-loud and Adept mentioned that he could lower server costs by switching AoE effects client side, Hanse said it would be too easy to exploit, Adept replied that rather than calculating and verifying EVERY attack, what if they did every 4th? Lowering server stress BIG time...in the same post he dismissed the idea because they simply wouldn't/didn't/never have the time.
Disclaimer: My recollection of the post is far from "exact" quotes, but it is very accurate and I assure you that the above was the gist of the posts.
Indeed...this conversation recollection just shows you how the speeding up the client (increased combat speed) affected the server.
I find it odd with the failure of the NGE that the new Star Wars mmo is pretty much making a reskinned NGE clone. I mean if you didn't like the NGE you will not like TOR either. How many wow clone total failures do these people need to make before they can take a hint? I mean one disaterous wow clone after another topping out at 200k subs at the most.
You mark my words, CCPs White Wolf mmo will slaugther Bioware.
I find it odd with the failure of the NGE that the new Star Wars mmo is pretty much making a reskinned NGE clone. I mean if you didn't like the NGE you will not like TOR either. How many wow clone total failures do these people need to make before they can take a hint? I mean one disaterous wow clone after another topping out at 200k subs at the most.
You mark my words, CCPs White Wolf mmo will slaugther Bioware.
Actually, I doubt that SWTOR will be anything like the NGE......for the simple reason that Bioware aren't metal midgets like SOE.
I also hesitate to call it a wow clone.....yet. Time will tell. Personally, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised.
Actually, I doubt that SWTOR will be anything like the NGE......for the simple reason that Bioware aren't metal midgets like SOE.
I also hesitate to call it a wow clone.....yet. Time will tell. Personally, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised.
I'm with ya. Bioware's only "falut" IMO is their stories are all "EPIC". The stories matter as much as gameplay does to them...a very VERY rare combination in ANY single player game...take that to the MMO level and I'm anxious to see what the come up with. Story, while interesting, doesn't excite me as much as the "gameplay"...but again, I have little doubt Bioware will deliver BOTH in SWTOR with amazing success.
Honestly...there's little or no chance that Bioware will have any missions/quests that are even almost as bad as SWG's best ones. Bioware simply doesn't make crappy games. RPG's are their specialty.
I disagree. Throwing hardware at clearly a software problem will not fix anything. The underlying code is the problem which you note.
THIS!!!
I don't think it's the "servers". It IS the code. Adept once addressed it in the Private forum when the PvP Update was being designed. He and Hanse were talking out-loud and Adept mentioned that he could lower server costs by switching AoE effects client side, Hanse said it would be too easy to exploit, Adept replied that rather than calculating and verifying EVERY attack, what if they did every 4th? Lowering server stress BIG time...in the same post he dismissed the idea because they simply wouldn't/didn't/never have the time.
Disclaimer: My recollection of the post is far from "exact" quotes, but it is very accurate and I assure you that the above was the gist of the posts.
I can also add from conversations with Blix at Fan Faire that there is a great deal of backend data moving about that causes this lag. We were discussing Open World PVP vs. Limited (or Zonal) PVP as to all the data shifting around in the old faction system. Points moving about from here to there and such exact quanities was a major contributor to Frame Rate loss. That system is still there as the threat indicator on NPCs. Closing PVP to confined areas allowed for better optimumsation in those zones. So, yeah, its a software issue coupled with a Franknstein structure.
Instead of it's MUCH NEEDED upgrades, SWG gives players Ewok love dolls, glowing halos, rainbow wings, and TCG.
I went back to SWG and enjoyed it for awhile, but got tired of being stuck on a dead server with my main, only to grow tired of the populated server, because of terrible server performance.
i completely agree with you and the last part pretty much sums up my recent re-entry to swg. i really love the space content though, too bad it's stuck inside this stinker.
Long story short they took a game with a lot of depth 32 classes an alpha class (jedi) that took MONTHS pre CU to unlock and even longer to grind (I know this is where all the jedi ruined SWG blah blah comes in NO patch 9 did that when they took away perma death -3deaths and you lost your jedi and anything you had- when they took that away thats what started the jedi wars) and made 9 "iconic classes" made jedi a starter to for everyone who worked for it a kick in the teeth, they made all the stuff people had farmed worked for 100% USELESS, they also put in a silly combat system that the engine wasnt made for. Anway I see I said a lot more then I wanted Old School SWG is my fav. MMO to date cause it had something most MMOs dont have depth, community, and a total sandbox feel.
I kinda sorta beta tested SWG. It ran so bad on my system, I couldn't log in without crashing within a minute, lol.. Then came release.. It was so buggy, had horrible FPS, mob warping issues, broken quests, etc I lasted maybe 3 weeks before quitting.. It's a shame to because I never went back when the game was actually better some months later.. A few times I felt the itch to play, then I'd come on these boards to check on the progress of the game and my excitement quickly faded after reading many many negative comments regarding the game... The biggest complaint of course was the implementation of the NGE... I agree that it has to be the biggest idiotic blundering mistake of a decision to change the game that much.. People who worked so hard for months to unlock the Jedi meant absolutely nothing anymore. All your hard work thrown down the drain.. I can understand how the true vets and fans of SWG felt betrayed..
Well, it just goes to show these companies don't care about the true fans of their game.. All they care about is making more money. SOE was ok with the changes simply because they thought it would bring more and more people to the game... They saw it as new people to the game will see they can start out as a jedi and immediately buy the game.. What they didn't realize is how many thousands of people it would upset so much to the point of cancelling their account.
One thing I don't understand is why SOE won't create a new pre NGE server.. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.. I'd actually consider checking out the game if they did that. But it looks as if even the small amount of employees still working on SWG are just there until SOE finally decides to pull the plug.... What a shame too....
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I see SOE is still blaming the players for the failures of this POS. Some things never change. TOR will be the final nail in SWG's coffin. When Star Wars fans have the option of.....
1.) A new Star Wars game set in the Old Republic days with full voice chat, rich story, choices that effect the outcome of your character, smugglers who actually smuggle,bounty hunters with flame throwers , created by a company who has a good reputation in the gaming industry etc.etc
2.) A POS that can't figure out what it wants to be that has been buggy and laggy since day one made by developers who don't give a crap about their fanbase, two populated servers left.....
Well, it just goes to show these companies don't care about the true fans of their game.. All they care about is making more money. SOE was ok with the changes simply because they thought it would bring more and more people to the game... They saw it as new people to the game will see they can start out as a jedi and immediately buy the game.. What they didn't realize is how many thousands of people it would upset so much to the point of cancelling their account.
From what some insiders have said, SOE can't even claim ignorance on that point because the suits were warned flat out that was how their current customers would react. But the suits managed to convince themselves that:
1) the people who quit over this wouldn't REALLY be as many as they were told, and
2) they would get so many new customers that the losses just wouldn't matter.
SWG is stil the best complete MMO on the market atm, IMHO.
Oh wow! No offense, but I gotta disagree with that...
I'm FAR from an SWG basher like some...But there are plenty of Games that are more complete than SWG...Just the 2 Characters Per Server thing makes SWG light years behind the pack...
It's still a decent Game in some aspects...But the Market has passed it by...They should offer up the Classic Servers and drop the Sub fee to $5 a month...That's about the only chance it's got to survive much longer...LOTRO is $10 per Month...I get 9 Characters per Server on an awesome Game, with TONS of depth, a great Community, constant meaningful free updates, and a story to follow...In the current MMO Market SWG is a complete rip-off at $15 per Month...I feel like somebody is robbing Me when I re-sub for a Month...
SWG is stil the best complete MMO on the market atm, IMHO.
Oh wow! No offense, but I gotta disagree with that...
I'm FAR from an SWG basher like some...But there are plenty of Games that are more complete than SWG...Just the 2 Characters Per Server thing makes SWG light years behind the pack...
It's still a decent Game in some aspects...But the Market has passed it by...They should offer up the Classic Servers and drop the Sub fee to $5 a month...That's about the only chance it's got to survive much longer...LOTRO is $10 per Month...I get 9 Characters per Server on an awesome Game, with TONS of depth, a great Community, constant meaningful free updates, and a story to follow...In the current MMO Market SWG is a complete rip-off at $15 per Month...I feel like somebody is robbing Me when I re-sub for a Month...
To be completely fair, SWG has a very impressive list of major features that, on paper, make it really stand out amongst mmos in a comparison of bullet points in a discussion.
From housing, crafting, space combat, "dungeons", customization, pvp battlegrounds, pvp theme instance, pvp invasions, storytelling, holiday events, etc etc. The list is really very long and few games can compete with the quantity of features.
That however is not taking into account the actual condition or functionality of those features, which is a completely different discussion.
Comments
Collections are not forced upon anyone and as such you do not have to do them. There are some that you want to do to get the best gear.
Not sure what profession nerf you are talking about and this is something that happends in all MMOs. Just part of the process and if can't handle it then MMOs are probably not for you. That is not to say that is does not also piss me off, only that I get over it and move on.
Since the GCW updates we have had, not all PVP occurs in Restuss. However, the fact remains that only ceratin areas in the game are suitiably capable of effectively handling large PVP encounters. Restuss and the Static PVP bases are still the best places for this to occur. That does not mean it is the only place large PVP occurs.
If you are still hung up on BB'ing and Rank Decay then you need to bome back. While rank decay has not changed, the way that GCW points are earned has. There are viable means for attaining GCW rank via PVP and PVE and neither takes as much time and effort as it did in the past. BB'ing is all but dead for these reasons. Now most BB'ing only happends for planetary zone control since it is faster to go PVP to get your points.
Any other reasons?
The only one you mention that is SciFi is STO and that is a pile of theme park crap. All the others are fantasy MMOs that are a dime a dozen. Also, if you think those games have more character customization, then I think you have not been in SWG since they added the appearance tab. Not to mention that Ents have cosmetic abilities that allow you to completely redo the toons physical characteristics.
Crafting is alive and well in SWG and I make millions of credits every week. Anyone that says other wise is just not playing atm.
What MMO game that has PVP/PVE does not have buffs and does not have grouping for PVP? Buffing taking 20 minutes? Maybe if you don't have access to Ents or Medics, however that is not the case on Flurry and easy to get buffed in less than 10 minutes. Horde mentality exists in all large scale PVP MMOs. Besides we also have instanced PVP now if you can't handle being out numbered.
We can agree to disagree. Been playing SWG since Sept. 2004 and still having a blast. Didn't even rage quit due to CU or NGE. Would love to see another good SciFi MMO and KOTOR looks like another fail themepark MMO to me. Might look into Fallen Earth however post apocolyptic Earth is not all that interesting to me.
I may not know as much as you about Galaxies, but trust me, I'm not some "disgruntled NGE quitter" and I feel I'm quite knowledgeable on SWG still...especially on PvP.
You didn't say "SciFi" - and character customization in SWG is lame compared to MANY newer MMOs - I know ALL about A-Tab mate and I stand by my statement.
Please tell, exactly what do you craft that makes you so much money? What do you sell them for?
But buffs...Buffs SWG style are VERY unique to SWG...THANK GOD!!!! That is NOT a good thing.
It's increasingly difficult for any new player to start or enjoy Galaxies because of the buffs - 5-piece Jewelry, 35's, familiar, Ent, Medic, Officer, Village, Food/Drink, PuPs, GCW Officer , GCW base stims, TCG loot cards...want me to list more that are in-game? Meatlump, Heroic (TK/ISD), Commando, Jedi, spice. Hoth Radio...the list is almost freaking ENDLESS!
That list above is one reason SWG will NEVER appeal to new players...and ironically, one of the things the NGE was designed to reduce.
Obviously you must log out in a buff house, great, but not many people do. I too could get buffed in less than 20min if needed, but it is most certainly not the "norm". Travel time, Medic, Ent, Officer stims - those all take time.
The "hoard" mentality IS worse is SWG because there is ONE used "battlefield"...Restuss. The "instanced" battlefields are a complete joke dude, they're empty 95+% of the time OR they're exploited for easy tokens because SoE decided to add in "shinnies" and "trinkets" rather than appeal and fun.
And please don't pretend to know me or what I like...I LOVE being outnumbered!! My BEST time PvPing was ALWAYS when it was just a few of us...that way "WE" controlled the PvP - the enemy came to us on OUR terms! The Restuss "hoard" is a cancer to SWG that should have been dealt with years ago because World PvP > Restuss PvP.
And just so you know, we simply have differing opinions and views on the game...I'm not arguing anything but claims here - this really isn't personal, so please don't take it as such
And TOR...
TOR may surprise a lotta people with how OPEN it is. It's not "instanced" and it will offer a seamless world, not just "cities". (link)
Quote :"There is exploration, there is combat, it is a wide-open world" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine
Quote: "Going to have crafting and harvesting, going to have guilds and social activities" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine
Quote:" “Hey, if I’m really into more the crafting, harvesting, auction house type of gameplay, are you going to support that?” "Absolutely" - MMOGamer - Blaine Christine
Your fanatic defense of the game does nothing to combat the facts of the matter.
Also, profession (or class) nerfing is not the point I was trying to make....I think I can make a great example if I simply utter the words "Block Suit".
The problem is, and always has been, that SOE has never looked at the "big picture". Remember KD / Dizzy?? Remember resistance / def stacking?? Remember stun comp?? How about ADKs? Holo grinding?? And of course....Base Busting.
All examples of how SOE simply tosses shit into the game, without thinking about the possible consequences of doing so. And then once the community has adapted to it, and incorporated it into their game play, the game is changed to rectify the problem that should not have been created in the first place.
There's only so many times you can trash a player's hard work before enough is enough, and they move on.
As to your claim that "only certain areas in the game are suitably capable of effectively handling large PVP enounters".....ahem....BULLSHIT.
We used to have incredible battles in Bestine, AH, Theed, Coronet, and many other places. Restuss ruined this, as other posters have illustrated quite nicely in this thread.
You need other reasons?? I think SOE's long history of mis-handling the game speaks for itself.
Just so. QFT on both..
I remember 150 vs 150 battles rolling for hours between bestine and anchorhead, and I played on a smaller server. And they happened every weekend, at a minumum, sometimes more. We had huge battles holding coronet or moenia almost as much. PvP was everywhere, and (what a surprise) there was almost no lag by comparison to the current game.
As to the other point, SOE has always been terribly shortsighted as to what changes they make. Instead of actually thinking about the "system" they were always nerfing this prof or that FOTM, when they should have spent their time balancing things on a group and not individual level. Imbalances SHOULD be part of it. A melee guy should lose to a rifleman at long range and vice versa, but SOE stupidly tried for years to make everyone and everything "equal".
SOE has an unrivalled ability to turn gold into lead.
agreed
Why oh why did they ruin it
SWG is better then when NGE hit, but it has MASSIVE hardware issues, and way too many dead servers.
SWG would be solid if SOE STOPS putting all the player sub cash into it's terrible TCG scam (trading card game is just a scam of a cash shop), UPGRADE SERVER HARDWARE, and CONSOLIDATE SERVERS.
Funny when you compare SWG to EVE. Both similar in age.
SWG started with about 300k subs and has done NOTHING to upgrade server hardware and graphics engine/code. SWG now is LUCKY to have 20k subs. SWG code is a horrid frankenstein patched mess, on poorly outdated tech.
EVE started with about 20k subs from some small no-name company and over the years has upgraded to the point it barely resembles it's original self. EVE runs on the most advanced server tech/hardware out of ANY MMO. EVE now has roughly 300k subs.
Instead of it's MUCH NEEDED upgrades, SWG gives players Ewok love dolls, glowing halos, rainbow wings, and TCG.
I went back to SWG and enjoyed it for awhile, but got tired of being stuck on a dead server with my main, only to grow tired of the populated server, because of terrible server performance.
I disagree. Throwing hardware at clearly a software problem will not fix anything. The underlying code is the problem which you note.
Everyone assumes they have never upgraded server hardware. This is not how publicy traded corporations with large datacenters operate. The server hardware is more than likely leased that way it is an expense item rather than a capital item on their financials. Costs usually drop when re-evaluating a new hardware lease vs. extending the old. In some instances there are simple buyouts built into the lease but that is usually with PCs and networking equipment not server/SAN hardware.
Lets not forget how speeding up the clent speed affected network packets and server I/O. The base code of SWG was built to handle 1 action per second. How many actions per second have they increased it by?
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
THIS!!!
I don't think it's the "servers". It IS the code. Adept once addressed it in the Private forum when the PvP Update was being designed. He and Hanse were talking out-loud and Adept mentioned that he could lower server costs by switching AoE effects client side, Hanse said it would be too easy to exploit, Adept replied that rather than calculating and verifying EVERY attack, what if they did every 4th? Lowering server stress BIG time...in the same post he dismissed the idea because they simply wouldn't/didn't/never have the time.
Disclaimer: My recollection of the post is far from "exact" quotes, but it is very accurate and I assure you that the above was the gist of the posts.
Indeed...this conversation recollection just shows you how the speeding up the client (increased combat speed) affected the server.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I find it odd with the failure of the NGE that the new Star Wars mmo is pretty much making a reskinned NGE clone. I mean if you didn't like the NGE you will not like TOR either. How many wow clone total failures do these people need to make before they can take a hint? I mean one disaterous wow clone after another topping out at 200k subs at the most.
You mark my words, CCPs White Wolf mmo will slaugther Bioware.
Actually, I doubt that SWTOR will be anything like the NGE......for the simple reason that Bioware aren't metal midgets like SOE.
I also hesitate to call it a wow clone.....yet. Time will tell. Personally, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised.
I'm with ya. Bioware's only "falut" IMO is their stories are all "EPIC". The stories matter as much as gameplay does to them...a very VERY rare combination in ANY single player game...take that to the MMO level and I'm anxious to see what the come up with. Story, while interesting, doesn't excite me as much as the "gameplay"...but again, I have little doubt Bioware will deliver BOTH in SWTOR with amazing success.
Honestly...there's little or no chance that Bioware will have any missions/quests that are even almost as bad as SWG's best ones. Bioware simply doesn't make crappy games. RPG's are their specialty.
as long as TOR sticks to their vison and doesnt revamp the game 1,2,3 times after launch they will probably be ok.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I can also add from conversations with Blix at Fan Faire that there is a great deal of backend data moving about that causes this lag. We were discussing Open World PVP vs. Limited (or Zonal) PVP as to all the data shifting around in the old faction system. Points moving about from here to there and such exact quanities was a major contributor to Frame Rate loss. That system is still there as the threat indicator on NPCs. Closing PVP to confined areas allowed for better optimumsation in those zones. So, yeah, its a software issue coupled with a Franknstein structure.
i completely agree with you and the last part pretty much sums up my recent re-entry to swg. i really love the space content though, too bad it's stuck inside this stinker.
I can agree wholeheartedly with this.
I kinda sorta beta tested SWG. It ran so bad on my system, I couldn't log in without crashing within a minute, lol.. Then came release.. It was so buggy, had horrible FPS, mob warping issues, broken quests, etc I lasted maybe 3 weeks before quitting.. It's a shame to because I never went back when the game was actually better some months later.. A few times I felt the itch to play, then I'd come on these boards to check on the progress of the game and my excitement quickly faded after reading many many negative comments regarding the game... The biggest complaint of course was the implementation of the NGE... I agree that it has to be the biggest idiotic blundering mistake of a decision to change the game that much.. People who worked so hard for months to unlock the Jedi meant absolutely nothing anymore. All your hard work thrown down the drain.. I can understand how the true vets and fans of SWG felt betrayed..
Well, it just goes to show these companies don't care about the true fans of their game.. All they care about is making more money. SOE was ok with the changes simply because they thought it would bring more and more people to the game... They saw it as new people to the game will see they can start out as a jedi and immediately buy the game.. What they didn't realize is how many thousands of people it would upset so much to the point of cancelling their account.
One thing I don't understand is why SOE won't create a new pre NGE server.. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.. I'd actually consider checking out the game if they did that. But it looks as if even the small amount of employees still working on SWG are just there until SOE finally decides to pull the plug.... What a shame too....
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I see SOE is still blaming the players for the failures of this POS. Some things never change. TOR will be the final nail in SWG's coffin. When Star Wars fans have the option of.....
1.) A new Star Wars game set in the Old Republic days with full voice chat, rich story, choices that effect the outcome of your character, smugglers who actually smuggle,bounty hunters with flame throwers , created by a company who has a good reputation in the gaming industry etc.etc
2.) A POS that can't figure out what it wants to be that has been buggy and laggy since day one made by developers who don't give a crap about their fanbase, two populated servers left.....
All I can say is goodbye to SWG.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
There are many many mmorpg's that people should just let rest in peace; SWG is one of them.
From what some insiders have said, SOE can't even claim ignorance on that point because the suits were warned flat out that was how their current customers would react. But the suits managed to convince themselves that:
1) the people who quit over this wouldn't REALLY be as many as they were told, and
2) they would get so many new customers that the losses just wouldn't matter.
Dead wrong on both counts, surprise, surprise.
Oh wow! No offense, but I gotta disagree with that...
I'm FAR from an SWG basher like some...But there are plenty of Games that are more complete than SWG...Just the 2 Characters Per Server thing makes SWG light years behind the pack...
It's still a decent Game in some aspects...But the Market has passed it by...They should offer up the Classic Servers and drop the Sub fee to $5 a month...That's about the only chance it's got to survive much longer...LOTRO is $10 per Month...I get 9 Characters per Server on an awesome Game, with TONS of depth, a great Community, constant meaningful free updates, and a story to follow...In the current MMO Market SWG is a complete rip-off at $15 per Month...I feel like somebody is robbing Me when I re-sub for a Month...
To be completely fair, SWG has a very impressive list of major features that, on paper, make it really stand out amongst mmos in a comparison of bullet points in a discussion.
From housing, crafting, space combat, "dungeons", customization, pvp battlegrounds, pvp theme instance, pvp invasions, storytelling, holiday events, etc etc. The list is really very long and few games can compete with the quantity of features.
That however is not taking into account the actual condition or functionality of those features, which is a completely different discussion.
I guess it is just a matter of perspective.