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General: Why You Like What You Like
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com's Justin Webb uses his column this week to talk about the history of RPGs and why it is what we individually like what it is that we like.
In this article I’m going to explain why you like what you like. You’re going to end up being either “cool” or “hot” (or maybe even “tepid”). You’ll have your own gaming thermometer. I’ll explain why you might love UO yet hate WoW. I’ll talk about the “play me” and “show me” Ages of RPGs. Along the way, I’m also going to mention Marshall McLuhan and Woody Allen. You’ll then get to poke fun of me in the forums. And I’m going to try and explain it all in about a thousand words or less.
The thoughts behind this article began after I realized that I didn’t much like some recent games that had phenomenally high Metacritic scores (Bioshock, Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age). I’ll spare you my reasonings. Instead, I’m going to investigate why.
Why Do I Like What I Like? Why Do You?
I first wondered whether it might be because I’ve “seen behind the curtain”? I certainly played Magic a lot less after I started working at Wizards of the Coast. And I’ve been in the MMO trenches for long enough now to understand the development meat grinder. However, that’s not the reason. It’s something more subtle than that.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Interesting. I think you're onto something. The graphical realism has sucked the RP out of games. Give me Fallout, Gold box series from SSI, FF1-3, Bards Tale, NWN over any of these newer games. I haven't finished an RPG since 2002(NWN and Morrowind). Fallout 3, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Mass Effect. I just can't get into them.
Now this is the kind of article I come here for, well done!
I started RPGs with Lunar, Star Ocean, NWN and FFVII, so I might not be 'hot' but I am certainly warm. Although, I love EVE to death, so what does that make me then? Can we have two thermometers, or is there something that can 'cool' or 'warm' us?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
This has more to do with quality and polish than anything else. Any game with more "heat" is going to be better than otherwise.
Once upon a time....
Damn Justin, you made me think....thanks
I would put my sweet spot somewhere between Ultima and DAOC.
My meter has grown hot as of late with playing WoW.
I long for cooler games...please make some
I think you are missing the point, and inadvertantly defining yourself as a "hot" gamer, which is totally fine. No one is saying that cool games are better than hot games.
As an example, the Civilization series is high-quality (usually ranked in the top few games ever) and polished, but is also extremely "cool".
Starting with a game like Diablo and progressing to EQ which I became cool on after PoP expansion. When WoW came along my temp was above "Hot". D3 has yet to make its debut and honestly I wonder now if it ever will.
Atlantica is one I enjoy from time to time "warm" at least.
Total PvP games tend to be my "cooling" spot at the moment. I want to do PvP when I want to not every time I log in.
Guess my pattern and temps lean toward fantasy with magic and demons and all the things that go with it. Not much interest in a game of modern warfare and the like. Guess I am not into space games either. Technology you know what I mean.
Gikku
I'm an older gamer. By most standards I should be fairly "Cool". But I find that I have separate sweet spots depending on game type. Probably due to finding my "resonating game" from different types of game at vastly different times. When it comes to MMOs I'm sub-arctic (MUDs, EVE, etc..) as my first MMO was EQ the first. On the other hand I loved the bioshocks, the mass effects, and dragon age. I may just have a very wide sweet spot with lots of holes in it.
Where does WoW fit on the scale exactly, as I rate that "game" a -1GOOGOL
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
I must be missing the point more than you think. I'm a "cool" gamer. I've gone back to UO after trying other games. But I liked the heat in those other games, where they missed on the core game play and worldly interaction of UO.
I don't see where this "heat" has anything to do with the core game play. It's added on top. And in more recent games, it's replacing core game play. But it's not game play itself.
Once upon a time....
Im a gamer even before the first era. I have played through all of these games from the early days of text based RPGs. For me - my sweetspot on cool and hot changes regularly depending on so many diffrent things. I think its mostly based on what I was playing last. If I have been playing WOW for the last 3 years - I will not look for the exact same thing again. Why bother since if I wanted the same I would just stick to WOW. I played Mass Effect 2 and loved alot of the game cause the gameplay is pretty nice. And you can directly affect the Coolness of the game. It might feel like hot - but you deside what road you take. Its not a pure movie form of game even tho the ending is 51% the same no matter how you play.
For me it has alot to do with age tho. When you grow older you loose part of the magic imaginary world where you created your own worlds. When you have played for 30 years - you will probably realise that the stories are running thin no matter how cool or hot the game is. It has probably to do with that the developers are pretty much telling the same story over and over again with very little added flavors.
My wish - is that some day gamers themselfs will be given the tools to create their OWN worlds - even when they are inside some particualre settings. NWN is probably the only game that has been able to do this with decent outcome so far. Its probably hard to create this sort of content in a MMO title. But in a 5 man co-op game in basic WOW style- it is very well possible. Then new dungeons and storylines would be created by the gamers and the job of the developers is to finetune things and the story. I personally would love to see such a game.
Actually it has nothing to do with quality and polish. Hot means less self-involvement and cool means more self-involvement. Where do you see good and bad in this? If you like to be more involved you will like "cooler" games, if you like less involvement and more "show me some great scenes" you will like "hotter" games.
Great article btw. Good to see some media criticism theory once in a while. It might do some good to the whole gaming industry to read more about such things and would give us some reference tools at hand to categorize and validate games beyond "AAA", "Themepark", "Indie" and "Sandbox".
I don't see the basis of the contention. Graphics has nothing to do with the game play experience at it's core. Using graphics to make exciting cut scenes and show more is something separate, on top of the game play. Producers have cheated and used this exciting element as a replacement, rather than an addition. That's worked for newer gamers, which are the vast majority, or have been in the WoW age of expansion to gaming and may be changing now after some time. But it's not game play.
Once upon a time....
Graphics have nothing to do with game play only in the most absolute abstract of sense, but have plenty of cross over. I think what you're saying is actually the same as what the article, that a "cool" game relies more on it's gameplay mechanics where as "hot" games rely more on non-gameplay mechanics (whizzy cutscenes etc.). A game such as Pong is stone cold, but a game like wii tenis is much hotter despite remarkably similar mechanics.
However this isn't the only element in the equation, Eve looks plenty good and is a "cool" game. Cut scenes and the like are all but absent from MMO's (bar maybe an intro, and the rare "event" movie) - but they still very much vary from cold to hot. And the mappings have somewhat of a synergy between sandbox and themepark. But again it's only a convient mapping.
Something like player agency also has a striking link, where as a cold game such as Masters of Orion (where the player literally bends the known galaxy to their whim) contrasts a white hot "RPG" such as Final Fantasy 13, where play action has no effect on the story whatsoever (bar progressing it).
As for your introduction to gaming setting your preferred "temperature", I certainly don't fit with that observation. Excluding table top, my RPG epiphany was probably fallout - yet i've enjoyed everything from the gold box to WoW. But i'm just 1 point on the graph...
I'm going to expound on my thoughts here.
You could take this "heat" and add it to UO, on top of it's normal worldly game play with interactivity and base social tools, and make it a better game. You could take UO's game play and add it to WoW and make it a better game.
If you want to compare game types, between WoW and UO, all you have to do is look at the text based beginnings. The difference in game play is an old thing. UO is MUD (worldly interactivity with social tools and interaction), WoW is DIKU (purely level based, D+D style featuring advancement of character).
This "hot" feature is a separate thing that can be applied to either.
Once upon a time....
Storydriven games will have to have a story... It doesn't mean they are less cool. THe RPG part of it is you are creating YOUR character story withing those settings.
WOW can still be as COOL game as any. Tauren Mill is an example of that. Nothing is preventing ppl to go and create their own story within certain settings. Go take some camp and make it your own. Its pointless but you still can do it.
Sandbox games create the exact same basic structure. Eve players are not controlling the prices of items any more than what WOW players are doing. And corporations are just a tool created by the developers to control the game. Its not like players invented corps.
I personally loved how Mass effect 2 did it. Storyline - but you deside. That doesn't mean I woulnd't have liked to see more randomised content to increase Immersion. Even some diffrent hacking puzzles - not to mention the entire resource mecanic that was horrible.
I dont think that ppl that have played MMOs for long time undestand that it all depends on the PLAYER Goals. Player that has the goal of enjoying the game and actually get full immersion can do so in any type of game.. Create their story too. The only thing that turns games away from the immersion trail - is how other gamers are playing. If they are not roleplaying but trying to level as fast as possible talking about their cat and favorite song - it will affect the gameplay. ALOT.
go play dragon oat !simplest game i know !yet last time i tried it it was packed why!the graphic are 1990s
but player dig it
check maplestory !it send us back to the supermario era but as a mmo they made million with that game!
the sad truth is .its just the computer req if computer req is too high you ll miss a majority of gamer
lot have their dads old computer like a p3 or p4 but not many have a brand new computer.
For me it honestly doesn't matter if a game is more open or more directed, I can enjoy both is they are done well.
I enjoyed UO when it came out, I love AC, I loved DAoC, when WoW was in it's first 6 months I had a blast. I am a gamer and as such I enjoy a great number of genres and styles of game. I had fun with MW2, loved battlefield 2, CS and CSS. I had fun with TF and TF2. I love RTS, FPS, RPG, MMO, Racing, Sports etc etc. I can enjoy a game that is highly directed and one that is amazingly wide open, but in the end it all comes down to quality.
WAR was directed, but that's not why it was so bad. It was bad because it didn't even try with it's pve (talk about kill x number quests to the extreme) and it had no clue how to do PvP. It came from a company that made one of the best MMO PvP games ever and yet did it all wrong.
LotRO had no real PvP (which usually hurts my enjoyment of an MMO, I don't want to PvP all the time but there are a lot of times I just want to sit down and PvP for an hour or so). But I did enjoy the game for a while. It had story quests, along side tasks, along side dungeons. The story quests were highly directed and scripted and were fun to play. The dungeons were a bit more approach how you want but still had quests involved and were also fun.
DDO could be fun if I ended up in a solid guild. I highly enjoyed wandering through the detailed and finely crafted dungeons figuring out what to do next, the only thing that killed the game was that when it came time to group everyone blitzkrieged through the dungeon and it was done before you knew what happened. That killed all immersion and fun.
We've all known for a long time that most gamers either prefer theme park or prefer sandbox, and I think most will admit that the current crop of gamers lean much more towards theme park. However I think there is a large enough portion who enjoy all styles and their fun comes down to the quality of the product and nothing more. The big issue the last few years has been the severe lack of quality in MMOs.
This is true, but you also have to recognize that the game dictates what most players are going to do. The game sets the goals of the game. Anything else and you are playing your own little meta-game within that game.
But you can have both at the same time. If that player can play their goals and at the same time level all the way up to the top, you are accomplishing this. That is the problem with level grind games, in my mind. You can't level all the way by playing your own way. You have to play the way they dictate to you. The only reason for this is the level zones created because of the extremes of level capabilities. Mostly in combat abilities. Reduce that so that the same zone still offers some challenge even to top level characters, even if it's far less challenge than it was at early levels, then you have this. You can still earn cool abilities like shapshifting, and many others, without all the big jumps in numbers.
Once upon a time....
I used to be really cold but I have been thawing lately. I attribute it mainly to increasing workload. More and harder work means less time and more tired when I do have time which means I can't get the focus needed for a really cold game.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Look at release day EQ. There were no exclamation points over anyones' heads to tell you who had a quest for you. You had to talk to everyone to find quests. You had to read the quest and learn where things were in order to determine which part of which zone held the quest giver, item, or mob you needed. You then had to travel to the location on foot while avoiding any nasties that were in your way (or killing along the way if you felt like it). There was no in game map that linked zones for you - you had to figure out how to get from zone to zone on your own. Zones were often quite large and you could search there for awhile trying to find your quest item. You actually had to look in your bags to see if you had looted the correct number of body parts. You then had to remember which NPC gave you the quest, where in the world they were, and travel back while avoiding nasties or killing along the way. (I don't want to make EQ sound like a panacea. Don't get me wrong - EQ had serious problems: mob trains, shared dungeons that could quickly become completely depopulated by mobs, random rare mobs with random rare drops, hell levels, a terrible grind, and a number of other issues.)
Contrast that with present day WoW. Quest givers show up on the mini-map with exclamations over their heads. You don't have to read the quest because the quest locations show up on the map and a mini-hud shows you the objectives and your current standing with respect to those objectives. With a flying mount, you don't even have to care about how you're going to get to the map location - there are very few flying mobs to get in your way. Once you complete killing and looting, the quest hud updates and shows you where on the map to return to the quest giver. The quest giver now shows up on the mini-map with a question mark. Easy-peezy. You might as well work for UPS - it's that easy usually.
The basic difference here is the experience. While EQ sounds like drudgery, it actually made for fantastic adventures you would want to share with your friends. When you went questing, you really had a journey on your hands. You had to read the quests, so you knew all of the back story and what was going on in the world. In WoW, you can solo your way to 80 with nary a thought for any other player. Since you don't even have to read the quests, you lose the back story of the area you're in and why you're killing toothless wolves for teeth.
From the original poster's definitions, EQ would be cool and WoW would be hot. I guess I'd prefer something lukewarm?
Great article. By your definition, I suppose I fall somewhere in the "lukewarm" area, but closer to the cooler end of the spectrum, hehe.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Fascinating stuff, really makes me think.
I'm an old gamer but my first MMO was WoW and it (fortunately or unfortunately) has set my MMO sweet spot. However, I play WoW at a more "lukewarm" setting, with emphasis on personal exploration and challenge as well as social interaction. Before that, my favorite games were StarCraft, Diablo II, Transport Tycoon (go ahead and laugh), Zelda and a MUD (whose name I can no longer remember) I played on my Compaq Portable.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Justin.
Christ Almighty! I really hope your native language isn't English. If it is, I suggest you spend less time on video games, and more time learning how to communicate properly.
Very intriguing article. It has caused me to take a step back and analyze my gaming preferences. I'm not sure how accurate the theory really is (atleast for myself), but it's a great discussion point when it comes to the direction modern MMOs are taking.
I am older gamer, I remember growing up there were no home computers, or game consoles, only board games
then came pong and game consoles, So I have seen the game industry grow, and I have played man many types of games over many years, I find my self cold for wow, hot for lotro, and cool about many other games, even at my age, I still find a cool factor to allot games knowing where they all came from, I like them all, better get me a digital one my temp, is all over the place,,:)
It depends on the genre of game for me. With MMOs I'm pretty much:
[..............$...............|..............................]
I do enjoy modern shooters. I just picked up Battlefield Bad Company 2 and I'm having a blast. BUt I do think there is some merit in some of what you say. For instance UO was my first MMO. I'm a firm believer in that MMOs should not be a directed experience. The "rails" that you mention. Again, part of that has to do with my first MMO and the other part is from my table-top gaming experiences with D&D. I come from the Advanced D&D 2nd Edition fold. That edition included mechanics to allow players to do what they want and accounted for it in the game rules. For instance it had a Castles Book for players who wanted to build strucutes. It focused more on "living" in the game world and including high adventure as opposed to the 3rd edition and on (4th edition is the most extreme) which only focused on the adventure part.
Tthat's what modern MMOs seem to do, focus only on the adventure, which is a large part of what I mean when I say they are shallow.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
The first thing I want to say is great article Justin. I don't know quite where I fit. I started with the Wizardy I, Bard's Tale, Might and Magic games, where graphics were very limited, it was the text that sparked the imagination.
UO was my first MMO and I loved the free form of it. Tried EQ and disliked it, did not care for the class restrictions, the forced grouping and zones for different levels. Went to Asheron's call and liked it, while it had classes, it was primarily skill based. Then DAoC came out and it was pvp done right, I actually did not mind the classes so much until they made it a mandatory grind game to compete. Then I found SWG and loved it, skill based with an economy that made sense.
I guess since NGE I have not really found anything that tickled my fancy. The games are far too structured these days with little challenge, you are lead by the hand through out them.
Here is hoping some indie company can do it right again....