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New low for CDF

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  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    The end game is currently raiding, which isn't to everyones taste.  It also throws the same bait and switch tactics as WoW does, when it comes to difficulty.

     

    Those that enjoy raiding generally find the STF's fun.  The problem is amongst those who don't enjoy raiding are also those that have grown to dispise it due to other games.  The latter is the group I'm in.  Cryptic need and must add alternative end games. 

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter



    Originally posted by grapevine



    I've not been disputing numbers, just the doom and gloom.   STO most definitly needs work, but its not failing.

     

    For the record, Cryptic are always quiet about numbers.  They never give them.  Neither do their games generally attract the masses.  There's no harm in being niche though.

    There was never any stated intent for this game to be niche. Star Trek is not a niche IP.

     

    Yes there was.  Its a well known fact Cryptic aim for a 100k subscription base for their games.  Its one of the reasons they use heavy instancing based around a single (virtual) server, to keep running costs low so that its achievable and profitable.

     

    I don't feel that for Star Trek that's the best approach, but that exactly what it was.

  • FelconianFelconian Member Posts: 103

    Originally posted by grapevine



    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter



    Originally posted by grapevine



    I've not been disputing numbers, just the doom and gloom.   STO most definitly needs work, but its not failing.

     

    For the record, Cryptic are always quiet about numbers.  They never give them.  Neither do their games generally attract the masses.  There's no harm in being niche though.

    There was never any stated intent for this game to be niche. Star Trek is not a niche IP.

     

    Yes it was.  Its a well known fact Cryptic aim for a 100k subscription base for their games.  Its one of the reasons they use heavy instancing based around a single (virtual) server, to keep running costs low so that its achievable and profitable.

    This just proves that Cryptic was the wrong developer for this IP....!

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    The problem is though, so are most other MMO companies.  Blizzard or Bioware (depending on how SW:TOR turns out), are the only ones I could see pulling it off for the masses.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by grapevine



    The problem is though, so are most other MMO companies.  Blizzard or Bioware (depending on how SW:TOR turns out), are the only ones I could see pulling it off for the masses.

    BioWare (as I have stated in the past) would have been my choice, but I think there are many here who think CCP and Turbine would have given it a good shot.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • PermianPermian Member CommonPosts: 78

    Originally posted by Gdemami

     




    Originally posted by Permian



    @grapvine

    I note you're being positive and props for that but you do seem to be ignoring many things that you ought to take into consideration. Yes, it is only speculation about the number of subscribers but it is a pretty educated guess and should be given due respect as there is plenty of clues to give an idea of trends.

     



    It is really futile to talk to someone who decides not to listen and see black and white only...

    He was not denying a trend, he just pointed out that the conclusions presented here such as those based on the trend are mostly exaggerated and baseless.

    You mean like when trying to talk to a CDF'er? ;)

  • describabledescribable Member UncommonPosts: 407

    you gotta compare the IPs.. pretty much STO is lord of the rings and aren't really niche's in their own right (although socially i'd put them into niches but gamers wise, when we're all dorks,  geeks etc anyway, just admit it we're on mmorpg.com for gawd sake).

    Lifers for Lotro have paid for 2 expansions, recieved a lot of content updates, knew what they were getting and most can probably see money saved if they played for at least a year on and off. right.

    now Cryptic lifers...

    welcome to the lifetime subscription you don't have to pay anything per month.. oh you want that new ship design.. that'll cost you.. oh you want those emotes... cost you. You want to play as a federation klingon... of course you can.. just pay me up front.

    i gotta wonder since fans of these IPs will have bought lifetime subscriptions, how many cryptic ones feel like they've been screwed anally.

    Sure Lotro doesn't have faction PvP, but at least the factions they do have (hobbits, humans, elves and dwarfs) have more PvE content in their starting areas and more quests there to than Cryptic has in there entire game.

    seriously there's what 20-30 story quest missions, and the rest are just repeats of quests you've already done.... just things spawned in different places. Casually you can get to top level in 2 weeks, but you'll still be grinding exploration missions for 10 of those levels....

    crafting at launch was the worst thing about Lotro; truly awful. But i doubt anyone would have thought after WAR that crafting could get any worse.... up comes Cryptic with their CO idea of crafting and people facepalmed.... then for their 3rd MMO... they create..

    Memory Alpha - really goes to show they've learned nothing developing MMOs...

    what ever happened to Marvel Online, cryptic ;) See even Microsoft were smart enough to dump Cryptic.. because they had them associated with a shit mmo ! true story, look it up.. Cryptics name was originally with a Marvel Online game with microsoft studios back in 2005/6.

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    STO has fraction based PvP and crafting?  Yeah, STO was released before it should have been.  It probably won't be in a fully fleshed out state until around July, when season 2 comes out.

     

    Not that I like cash shops, but unfortuantly they are now the norm.  So bashing Cryptic over selling fluff isn't quite justified.  especially as they don't sell the items for anywhere near $25, unlike some other company that already makes a fortune from their game

     

    By the way CO's crafting is pretty much the generic mats and schematics.  So hardly different or lesser than other games.

     

    Microsoft ditched a lot of games they were supporting around that time, because they wanted them to be to be Vista only.

  • describabledescribable Member UncommonPosts: 407

    Originally posted by grapevine

    STO has fraction based PvP and crafting?  Yeah, STO was released before it should have been.  It probably won't be in a fully fleshed out state until around July, when season 2 comes out.

     

    By the way CO's crafting is pretty much the generic mats and schematics.  So hardly different or lesser than other games.

     

    Microsoft ditched a lot of games they were supporting around that time, because they wanted them to be to be Vista only.

     

    oh please, and Klingon PvE until when 2011... come on... you don't honestly believe everything will be better in July, that's like people praying about the 45 day patch  ;)

    CO's crafting was literally a waste of time and effort for a superhero game, and please don't compare it to other MMO's (unless WAR) because at least they have direction with it.... it was just tagged onto CO, be honest, don't bs me.

    As for Blizzard, well selling fluff now for $25 i think they're entitled because unlike CO and STO, WoW is successful, 5 years of content, 3 expansions [cata this year included in that, it's pretty much done] and more quests than STO or CO combined can pull together in the next 10 years at the rate their going ;) Blizzard wins by giving people something they may not want (over 100 mounts in the game already) at a price. And people bought it... it was a choice thing. Until STO or CO offers that same deal... then it's just crap. C-Store = fail.

    another lie... Marvel Universe Online was not going to be "vista only" as the game was also scheduled for the 360 (which obviously can't support vista), microsoft just wanted it to say vista for marketing rather than anything else. Which later became "windows online".

    what actually happened was Microsoft and Marvel had disagreements regarding the licensing of Marvel characters, which led to the cancellation. although the official statement was -

    Shane Kim, the head of Microsoft Games Studios, stated in an interview that the cancellation was primarily due to the competitive market for subscription-based MMOs, and that while one current MMO was successful, "everything else wouldn’t meet our level or definition of commercial success"

     

    Next time, attempt to know something about the subject before trying to defend and argue... i mean your points are laughable... and desperate, heh just like Cryptic ;)

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Member Posts: 1,089

    Originally posted by grapevine

    The end game is currently raiding, which isn't to everyones taste.  It also throws the same bait and switch tactics as WoW does, when it comes to difficulty.

     

    Those that enjoy raiding generally find the STF's fun.  The problem is amongst those who don't enjoy raiding are also those that have grown to dispise it due to other games.  The latter is the group I'm in.  Cryptic need and must add alternative end games. 

    I haven't seen many people describe the STFs as fun, but mostly as unimaginative zerg fests, with rewards not being worth the time and frustration.  I've read you can get equal or better rewards in less time played by doing dailies.

    While you are correct about Cryptic having a goal of 100k subs, that should tell you all you need to know about Cryptic when they have such a low goal (which they probably are already under) for such a big IP.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    360 is a Microsoft product.  For the PC they wanted it to be exclusive to Vista.

     

    Clearly you aren't up on what in season 2.  Klingon episode (i.e. PvE) content is a major part of it.  It will only be after then fraction PvP will actually be feasible, as the current way of leveling a Klingon is extremely repeatative.

  • FelconianFelconian Member Posts: 103

    Originally posted by grapevine



    STO has fraction based PvP and crafting?  Yeah, STO was released before it should have been.  It probably won't be in a fully fleshed out state until around July, when season 2 comes out.

     

    Not that I like cash shops, but unfortuantly they are now the norm.  So bashing Cryptic over selling fluff isn't quite justified.  especially as they don't sell the items for anywhere near $25, unlike some other company that already makes a fortune from their game

     

    By the way CO's crafting is pretty much the generic mats and schematics.  So hardly different or lesser than other games.

     

    Microsoft ditched a lot of games they were supporting around that time, because they wanted them to be to be Vista only.

    YOUR JOKING RIGHT!

  • describabledescribable Member UncommonPosts: 407

    Originally posted by grapevine

    360 is a Microsoft product.  For the PC they wanted it to be exclusive to Vista.

     

    Clearly you aren't up on what in season 2.  Klingon episode (i.e. PvE) content is a major part of it.  It will only be after then fraction PvP will actually be feasible, as the current way of leveling a Klingon is extremely repeatative.

     in no way did micosoft ever say it would not support windows XP for MUO, it was never their intention. Any game that was "vista only" and released on the 360 was also, funnily enough, XP compatable.

    seriously, that's like a non issue?

    well no i'm not up on STO... i'll have a look at this "season 2", yeah... July you said... well we have time to see what happens... update 1,1 isn't until the end of this month.. and it's hardly looking "spectacular".

    knowing cryptic they might make you pay for season 2 .... haha... awesome. Or maybe they'll have learned their lesson with CO about trying to do that ;)

     

    still cracks me up that, they have "Space Auto-Fire " as one of the main issues they're bringing in.. omg.. really... so no we don't have to bind one button to spam "fire at will". (mine was left ctrl)

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by Darth_Osor



    Originally posted by grapevine

    The end game is currently raiding, which isn't to everyones taste.  It also throws the same bait and switch tactics as WoW does, when it comes to difficulty.

     

    Those that enjoy raiding generally find the STF's fun.  The problem is amongst those who don't enjoy raiding are also those that have grown to dispise it due to other games.  The latter is the group I'm in.  Cryptic need and must add alternative end games. 

    I haven't seen many people describe the STFs as fun, but mostly as unimaginative zerg fests, with rewards not being worth the time and frustration.  I've read you can get equal or better rewards in less time played by doing dailies.

    While you are correct about Cryptic having a goal of 100k subs, that should tell you all you need to know about Cryptic when they have such a low goal (which they probably are already under) for such a big IP.

    Get in an experienced raid group and they aren't a zerg.

     

    Cryptic has geared its end game loot towards the various play style.  So raid gear, benefits raiding (i.e. adds a damage buff to the type of mobs you fight in that raid), likewise for the PvE and PvP dailies.  So yeah, if you aren't fighting a Borg, you are better off with other gear.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by describable



    knowing cryptic they might make you pay for season 2 .... haha... awesome

     

     

    They've already stated its free.

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Member Posts: 1,089

    Originally posted by grapevine

    STO has fraction based PvP and crafting?  Yeah, STO was released before it should have been.  It probably won't be in a fully fleshed out state until around July, when season 2 comes out.

     

    Not that I like cash shops, but unfortuantly they are now the norm.  So bashing Cryptic over selling fluff isn't quite justified.  especially as they don't sell the items for anywhere near $25, unlike some other company that already makes a fortune from their game

     

    By the way CO's crafting is pretty much the generic mats and schematics.  So hardly different or lesser than other games.

     

    Microsoft ditched a lot of games they were supporting around that time, because they wanted them to be to be Vista only.

    You are an eternal optimist if you think the game will be fully fleshed out in July with season 2.

    I don't see many people here defending Blizzard for charging $25 for a mount.  I'm certainly not. 

    I don't know anything about CO's crafting, but STO's is the worst...system...ever.  Yes, worse than WAR's...at least with WAR's system, you could measure progress, and there was something to it besides trading with an NPC.

  • describabledescribable Member UncommonPosts: 407

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by describable



    knowing cryptic they might make you pay for season 2 .... haha... awesome

     

     

    They've already stated its free.

     yeah i updated that to make fun of CO, it was too easy... forgot to include that on the first read over.

    Thats the only thing you could pick out though... go back and try again, your defending is certainly getting weaker if thats all you could find ;)

    i'm right about everything else then. cool. thought i was :)

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Yep, STO crafting isn't even what I'd call crafting either.  Its on the cards to be revamped sometime this year, apparently.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Just stating fact and disputing the so called doom and gloom.  I'm not a CDF.  I feel like the majority that STO was released way to early and has a lot of issues.  The end game is suited to only one playstyle.  The Klingon fraction is currently a joke, along with the associated PvP requirement. Content is lacking in repeatability.  The list goes on.

    Doesn't mean that plenty aren't playing though.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by describable



    Originally posted by grapevine


    Originally posted by describable



    knowing cryptic they might make you pay for season 2 .... haha... awesome

     

     

    They've already stated its free.

     yeah i updated that to make fun of CO, it was too easy... forgot to include that on the first read over.

    Thats the only thing you could pick out though... go back and try again, your defending is certainly getting weaker if thats all you could find ;)

    i'm right about everything else then. cool. thought i was :)

    Fine!

     

    Check back to that time period.  There were a lot of games around Vista's launch that were branded Vista only.  MUO was going to be one of them, along with the XBOX 360.

     

    1.1 is a fix patch, not a content one.

     

    Space auto-fire is one of the most requested fixes by the player base, so its rightfully documented as a priority.

  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Member Posts: 1,089

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by Darth_Osor

     

    I haven't seen many people describe the STFs as fun, but mostly as unimaginative zerg fests, with rewards not being worth the time and frustration.  I've read you can get equal or better rewards in less time played by doing dailies.

    While you are correct about Cryptic having a goal of 100k subs, that should tell you all you need to know about Cryptic when they have such a low goal (which they probably are already under) for such a big IP.

    Get in an experienced raid group and they aren't a zerg.

     

    Cryptic has geared its end game loot towards the various play style.  So raid gear, benefits raiding (i.e. adds a damage buff to the type of mobs you fight in that raid), likewise for the PvE and PvP dailies.  So yeah, if you aren't fighting a Borg, you are better off with other gear.

     I meant the spawn rate of trash mobs as being the zerg, not the players zerging the content.  Sorry for the confusion.

    The only time I've ever heard of five players being called a zerg was a solo PvPer complaining about being zerged in my DAoC days.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Ahh, yeah they can be.  There is a tactic to it though and does need a extremely well balanced group to prevent it becoming one.

     

    Its not really the spawn rate though, as there are no respawns as such.  Its the emmitters beam more in, so if they are destroyed it stops the additional mobs.  What causes the zerg is the hold they have (which is overpowered, causing wipes) and an ill equipt team.  Remove that and even a PuG would manage.

  • describabledescribable Member UncommonPosts: 407

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by describable



    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by describable



    knowing cryptic they might make you pay for season 2 .... haha... awesome

     

     

    They've already stated its free.

     yeah i updated that to make fun of CO, it was too easy... forgot to include that on the first read over.

    Thats the only thing you could pick out though... go back and try again, your defending is certainly getting weaker if thats all you could find ;)

    i'm right about everything else then. cool. thought i was :)

    Fine!

     

    Check back to that time period.  There were a lot of games around Vista's launch that were branded Vista only.  MUO was going to be one of them, along with the XBOX 360.

     

    1.1 is a fix patch, not a content one.

     

    Space auto-fire is one of the most fxies requested by the player base, so its rightfully documented as a priority.

     and i already proved to you, that didn't END UP BEING THE CASE and was NOT one of the reasons MUO was discontinued. seriously, should i start... typing... slow.. so... you... can...  read.

    space auto fire has been requested by the player base since beta.... i'm amazed they 1) listened 2) took so long to implement.

    Although i'm just reading the STO "reviews" page on the site, it's rather amusing... they look at the ratings then cryptic makes up a % based upon it.... if *munches popcorn*

    a B- for example = 80%

    but a B also = 80%

    http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/features/Games-Star-Trek-Online.6050381.jp

    ^ that equals 70%, not quite sure why... wouldn't call it a review... but it is menioned here:

    http://www.startrekonline.com/reviews

    so it must be.

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    You've proved nothing.  You just made a blind statement.  Its a well known fact Mircosoft were pushing many developers to be exclusive to their products around that time, while pulling out on those that wouldn't.

  • describabledescribable Member UncommonPosts: 407

    Originally posted by grapevine

    You've proved nothing.  You just made a blind statement.  Its a well known fact Mircosoft were pushing many developers to be exclusive to their products around that time.

     well the press statements agree with me, as well as an informer to  various gaming sites [Game informer being one of them], all of which never mentioned anything at all about "vista" in the same breath.

    so who do i believe, YOU.... or the fact all "vista only" *cough* released on the 360 ended up being XP comptable AND the press releases.

    yeah somehow, i'm not going to go with you on that one am i.... makes logical sense to look at the evidence and go "hey, look... thats what happened"

     

    really hoped you'd comment on this though:

    Although i'm just reading the STO "reviews" page on the site, it's rather amusing... they look at the ratings then cryptic makes up a % based upon it.... *munches popcorn*

    a B- for example = 80%

    but a B also = 80%

    http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/features/Games-Star-Trek-Online.6050381.jp

    ^ that equals 70%, not quite sure why... wouldn't call it a review... but it is menioned here:

    http://www.startrekonline.com/reviews

    so it must be.

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

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