Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
CC ruins PVP
DrunkWolf
Member RarePosts: 1,701
I have noticed every newer game i have played that has pvp in it is ruined by CC.
I see so many people who get upset of being outnumberd or ganked and have no chance to win, this is because of CC. It takes away skill from players, with NO CC a player would have a fighting chance to win in most cases because he wouldnt be sitting there like a piñata watching his character get beat down with no chance to do anything.
We need more skill based games with no classes and no CC that would give players who get ganked a chance to either escape or fight it out knowing they have a chance.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I hear what you´re saying and I agree to the problems with that mechanic. That said I believe it´s nice to have another "dimension" to fighting and cc´s add that. If you allow cc´s in a game you should also have many anti cc´s to counter with then it becomes part of the strategy.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
CC doesn't ruin PvP. CC with no reasonably available counter does.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Agreed.
CC is needed in large battles, we all hate it when used against us, but we all love it when it saves us from certain death.
Maybe the skill you need to aquire is the ability to not have to be in control all the time.
I agree to an extent also. CC once you hit tier 3 and tier 4 in Warhammer online is what ruined the game with me. There was just to much of it. almost every singe class had CC and with only one CC counter it was they CC you, you break it another CC's you than they beat on you while your helpless. IF it wasn't for the insane amount of CC there was in that game when you Hit Tier 3 I would probably still be playing it.
Tier 2 is the best pvp tier in that game. Because the CC is limited to the ranged classes and they don't have tons of CC to just counter your one Anti CC maneuver.
Don't get me wrong i like CC in a game it just really has to be balanced CC should be there for a ranged to get out of trouble or to hold a melee while the range gets some distance back between them not there so everyone can just CC everyone. any time they like.
Any game where players plays versus another player cc is a bad thing. You play to play not to be artificially stopped from playing. It's annoying and needless.
It's not skill it's the easy way out.
I hear WoW mages are getting a Wall of Fog CC spell for PVP in Cata, will really mess groups up. I think I like that.
No CC?
Go play a FPS or Fighting game.
CC is part of MMOs... don't like it play something else. A caster with no CC is dead, a melee with no way to keep target from running away is useless.
Hell if you take CC out, mine as well take healing out because healing just extends fights. Put 2 guys standing infront of each other swinging swords... fun.
Aww you got ganked.... travel with friends next time... acutally use one of the M's in MMO
I agree with this response, if there is one game that stands out to me for the most destructive use of CC is Warhammer. Once you hit T4 PvP the amount of CC getting thrown around is just madness, I think they had to put in a debuff when I stopped playing that makes you immune to CC for a certain amount time which ended up only making harder to understand just who can be CCed and who cant be.
Overall CC is not a problem for me in PvP, as long it is well balanced and not every class is given 4-5 CCs so fights dont turn into just throwing out CC abilites and waiting for the next CC cooldown to be up. Still waiting for the PvP MMO that has "terrain that actually works" to interrupt range attacks and which actually lets you be out of line of sight and not just let the attacks go through walls, pillars etc.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
When developers give a class like 4 -5 CCs it becomes an issue.
I prefer when CC is class defining.
Like a caster getting 1 hex and melee getting a stun and another a knock back.
less is more in a pvp game, not everyone needs 10 freaking cc abilities.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
There is CC is some FPS too, in the form flashbangs and Stun genades.
I not completely againsted CC, but it usually it goes to far.
Just like what someone else said about Warhammer.
PVP was Great in Teir 1 and 2... But in Teir 3 there was to much CC, it ended up ruining the fun.
I generally Agree with OP, but I think a limited form of CC should still be there.
Of course CC seems like a bad mechanic when every class is given it. Early MMO's only gave CC abilities and counters (in varying degrees) to specailized classes which encouraged players to group together to watch each others backs and track down the enemy.
While this sucked for solo PVP, it was almost a ballet to fight a good battle in DAOC with effective CC, counter agents and learning to not run in a pack all the time so the entire group wouldnt be locked down.
When i played as a healer/counter CC I had to try very hard to posiiton myself out of range of the initial CC attack so I could release my group members, other healers etc and it was very strategic. When I played a Sorcerer or Minstrel being the first to land my CC was all important, and made my job one of the most important in the fight.
Sure, it meant DPS characters such as tanks and what not were extremely dependent on support classes to kill or survive, but that's what made the game great fun for me, every role was extremely necessary. If the healers/CC were doing their jobs then the MA (main assist) train could rumble through the enemy striking down foe after foe like a machine.
The DAOC 8 man group running at full efficiency was a thing of beauty and one group could easily decimate 3 or 4 less organized groups. Contrary to popular belief, zerging wasn't the only way to win in DAOC and anyone who ever encountered "The General's" 8 man team (MLF or Mordred, I've forgotten now) quickly learned that superior numbers were almost useless against them. (spoken as one who found himself useless quite often against them)
And yes, sometimes you got nailed into place and beat down, while other times, you returned the favor. All part of the fun.
Overall, IMO, CC and roles in general need to return to an age of specialization and move away from this era of every player can do some of everything, all the time. EVE handles this well, while I can train for every ship role, I can only fly one ship per encounter and therefore can only really do one role well at a time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
CC is by no means needed in larger battles. Planetside had zero CC, and had some of the most enjoyable massive battles I've experienced. An MMORPG could do the same.
Amp up the dynamicism of MMORPG abilities and reduce the impact of non-skill factors, and you'd have MMORPG PVP which was far more enjoyable.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If i knew what CC was i might be able to provide some input
I calculated that my Ironbreaker, in a pack of 6 enemies, in a 20-sec period, could land 24 separate CC effects on those targets. That's more than 1 CC effect per second!
By giving most classes insane amounts of CC they created a problem for themselves. Their solution -- 30 sec of CC immunity when you're hit by CC -- was just as bad, as now you have a situation where half (more than half!) of the time your abilities don't even work as advertised.
It's the worst implementation of CC I've ever seen in a game. Players spend a lot of time unable to control their characters, and that's terrible design in a game which is supposed to be about PVP.
Would've been so much easier just to give characters a reasonable amount of CC, so that it could work as advertised 100% of the time, but that it's an emergency ability and players aren't spending huge chunks of battle unable to control their characters.
It doesn't help that their level/world design takes the most balanced form of CC (knockbacks) and makes it drastically overpowered (I lost track of how many poor bastards I punted into lava, to their demise.)
I really wanted to like WAR, but the designers didn't want me to like it.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Play a game where you can counter CC.
Like WoW.
Trinket out of a stun.
Blink out of a stun.
Polymorph out of a root.
Berserk out of a fear.
Aggro some nearby mob so that you take periodic damage, this breaks you out of a fear or a polymorph
Talent sprint to break roots.
And so on.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I personally Like the use of CC, when it is implemented correctly.
It makes the game more tactical, imo. but only when their are counters as well.
Planetside was a FPS, while the thread is about PvP and not FPS v RPG, with FPS MMO being rare (2-3 in the entire existence?) and most of the replies being focused on RPG games, it comes down to CC being needed in large MMORPG battles.
On your behalf, I do see how CC would be just wrong to have in a massive FPS battle, and pretty much anti-climatic, not the same when it comes to RPG battles, annoying yes but that's pretty much it.
The best PvP game many people have ever played is DAoC, and there was a lot of crowd controll in it...
Crowd control gives an extra tactical component to MMO's which is a good thing, some classes (squishies) in general need crowd controll to survive.
But since you like just to hack and slash mindlessly, i might suggest playing a FPS game...
The reason games have so much cut back on crowd controll nowerdays is because those developers have found it hard to ballance this most fun part of MMO's...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I got to disagree. DAoC has /face and /stick commands. To many of us, a game with /stick and /face is not real pvp.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Crowd Control.
I'm suprised anyone that comes here would not know that.
After playing WoW, i hated CC and thought I could not play a game with CC where a rogue could remove my playing ability for 30+ seconds or a druid, etc.
After playing WAR, when CC was fixed, it was much more fun and competitive. Not only is CC breakable if you take damage, but it gives you an immunity for about a min.
I think CC is very important. In WoW it was important for dungeons in vanilla and BC. In WAR it's used to slow down enemy movements or interrupt their current casting/movements. Really good to have in games when it's not over done.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
Amen!
Excellent analysis and explanation. The highlighted orange segment is quite possibly the most accute, analytical and extremely necessary statement ive read in awhile, around here. It should be posed in 98% of threads on this entire site and those similar to it. We've gone from the rare 'Jack of all trades; Master of none' to an abundance of 'Master of all trades; Jack is anti-social and a selfish dope'.
Encouragement to group. Hook up with a crew and go wreck some ass!
I still say cc is an easy way out. nstead of invent a way without or with less cc and make it work they just pour a game with cc.
Less cc is better in my opinion and no cc best. Though developers are lazy and the gamers are so accustumed to cc they kind of expect to be some kind of cc cause in their mind it would not work without.
Crowd controll should be the 4th archtree
-Tank
-Dps
-Healing
-Crowd controll
With atleast one of each necessarry in a 6 man group...........
giving a little CC to all classes like WoW did was a bad idea....
Stuns are not bad, as long as they are ballanced, so they need to be short...
Mezzes are okay as long as they do not last to long and there are no 60 secconds AoE mezzes.
And one more thing...... Make a difference for CC spells against players and NPC's............. for example a 30 seccond mezz on an NPC lasts 6 secconds on a player a 5 seccond stun against a NPC would be a 1 seccond stun in PvP..
20 seccond fear would be a 4 seccond fear in PvP, this way all is repaired..... and crowd controll should be ballanced.... no more helpless clothies in PvP ... they would have some form of defense this way... go go clothies go...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)