I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
"Different" business method? Check the laws. Their "method" is borderline illegal. If you don't believe me, check yourself. Those people bought the box, not a subscription. They haven't agreed to be charged for any subscription yet.
It's not borderline illegal, if they charge anyone that has not setup a subscription it is illegal. There's a reason every other MMO in existance has you go through the process of filling out billing information and agreeing to a subscription term instead of doing what SV has done.
The people saying this is common practice have 0 clue and either their mom and dad generally handle the account setup or this is their first MMO they've played.
Bottom line is there using the information you pre-ordered with without asking you if it's ok. They've taken it upon themselve's to assume that you agree to a subscription plan and that the card you used to pre-order the game with is the card you wish to use to pay for this subscription.
Thats bad enough on it's own but to make it worse people that found no intrest in MO after they pre-ordered it have no idea that they need to go and cancel a subscription that they never signed up for. Because not only is this not common practice, it's simply not done because it is illegal. You can not charge someone that does not authorize you to do so. Unless an individual fills in their info and hits agree then you can not charge them a subscription fee.
And for those that keep trying to say this is common practice, it's not lol and there is a very good reason it's not. I personally hope no one decided to get MO as a gift for someone. Because SV decided that meant they wanted to pay for a monthly subscription for that person as well lol.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
NOBODY WHO PREORDERED AGREED TO IT.
Please get that through your head, even the MO forums echo this point and that's the whole reason I even brought it up. A lot of people started to set their subscriptions to not auto-renew as a result of my post and for that I'm very happy as it saves some people getting hit automatically with a charge they never agreed to.
I did not preorder this game, so I do not have any experience with this issue. I am not a lawyer nor do I know anything about the laws concerning an issue such as this. I'm sure everyone posting on this forum is in the same situation as me when it comes to the legal part. Though I do know, in the US at least, that you are innocent until proven guilty. So far I haven't seen or heard of any proof that would suggest SV is doing anything illegal, other than a few angry posters.
I say that nothing will come of this, no legal actions anyway. If something does come of it, then i will be one surprised person.
Anyways, what is the point in preordering the game if you have no intentions of subscrbing? Unless you want to admit that you payed to play a beta that is.
I personally think that it is ok for SV to do this. I think that it is logical to assume that if someone cares about a game enough to preorder it over half a year in advance will want to subscribe to it, but that's just my opinion.
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.
what you fail to realize or read dude, people are saying it wasnt originally avialable, it was put in later. so how can a person opt out if they have no option to do so? come on tell me if you know. if not then move on, its illegal to hve no opt out feature then put in later and then charge a person for the payment. it is in fact illegal, or they hvae to give you an announcement that you will be charged with this new feature that has been enabled.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Ever bought a game you played for the 30 free days and then cancelled? Well, many wrote off their pre-order months ago and did not know that their subscription is automatically renewed.
And no, it's not "okay". It's criminal IF they do this.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
NOBODY WHO PREORDERED AGREED TO IT.
Please get that through your head, even the MO forums echo this point and that's the whole reason I even brought it up. A lot of people started to set their subscriptions to not auto-renew as a result of my post and for that I'm very happy as it saves some people getting hit automatically with a charge they never agreed to.
I did not preorder this game, so I do not have any experience with this issue. I am not a lawyer nor do I know anything about the laws concerning an issue such as this. I'm sure everyone posting on this forum is in the same situation as me when it comes to the legal part. Though I do know, in the US at least, that you are innocent until proven guilty. So far I haven't seen or heard of any proof that would suggest SV is doing anything illegal, other than a few angry posters.
I say that nothing will come of this, no legal actions anyway. If something does come of it, then i will be one surprised person.
Anyways, what is the point in preordering the game if you have no intentions of subscrbing? Unless you want to admit that you payed to play a beta that is.
I personally think that it is ok for SV to do this. I think that it is logical to assume that if someone cares about a game enough to preorder it over half a year in advance will want to subscribe to it, but that's just my opinion.
Because SV hinted that the pre-order would ensure that we had the *ability* to play when launch came around. Because you know, there was going to be "limited supply" and a pre-order would ensure that ability to play.
You may be innocent until proven guilty but that's only as a court judges your actions. And the actions they are taking are illegal. Nobody agreed to a subscription, people only agreed to a PRODUCT. The beta access as has always been maintained, was a "bonus". What you paid for was the ability to play when the game was released.
Either way, I am hoping that SV goes forward with this and doesn't bother to change their standard. It will show their unethical behavior, and since it is a criminal act, that "innocent until proven guilty" won't last very long if they simply look at their history of behavior.
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.
what you fail to realize or read dude, people are saying it wasnt originally avialable, it was put in later. so how can a person opt out if they have no option to do so? come on tell me if you know. if not then move on, its illegal to hve no opt out feature then put in later and then charge a person for the payment. it is in fact illegal, or they hvae to give you an announcement that you will be charged with this new feature that has been enabled.
Yep. I am amazed that people simply don't have the comprehension to understand this.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
NOBODY WHO PREORDERED AGREED TO IT.
Please get that through your head, even the MO forums echo this point and that's the whole reason I even brought it up. A lot of people started to set their subscriptions to not auto-renew as a result of my post and for that I'm very happy as it saves some people getting hit automatically with a charge they never agreed to.
I did not preorder this game, so I do not have any experience with this issue. I am not a lawyer nor do I know anything about the laws concerning an issue such as this. I'm sure everyone posting on this forum is in the same situation as me when it comes to the legal part. Though I do know, in the US at least, that you are innocent until proven guilty. So far I haven't seen or heard of any proof that would suggest SV is doing anything illegal, other than a few angry posters.
I say that nothing will come of this, no legal actions anyway. If something does come of it, then i will be one surprised person.
Anyways, what is the point in preordering the game if you have no intentions of subscrbing? Unless you want to admit that you payed to play a beta that is.
I personally think that it is ok for SV to do this. I think that it is logical to assume that if someone cares about a game enough to preorder it over half a year in advance will want to subscribe to it, but that's just my opinion.
the company still has an obligation to notify all account users of the change to the payment method if any, such as in this case they finally included a subscription method. (despite the fact the stupid game still isnt even finished, yet people are already getting charged) there wasnt a subscription method prior to this where people could set it to not renew, so therefore SV was negligent in this fact.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
NOBODY WHO PREORDERED AGREED TO IT.
Please get that through your head, even the MO forums echo this point and that's the whole reason I even brought it up. A lot of people started to set their subscriptions to not auto-renew as a result of my post and for that I'm very happy as it saves some people getting hit automatically with a charge they never agreed to.
I did not preorder this game, so I do not have any experience with this issue. I am not a lawyer nor do I know anything about the laws concerning an issue such as this. I'm sure everyone posting on this forum is in the same situation as me when it comes to the legal part. Though I do know, in the US at least, that you are innocent until proven guilty. So far I haven't seen or heard of any proof that would suggest SV is doing anything illegal, other than a few angry posters.
I say that nothing will come of this, no legal actions anyway. If something does come of it, then i will be one surprised person.
Anyways, what is the point in preordering the game if you have no intentions of subscrbing? Unless you want to admit that you payed to play a beta that is.
I personally think that it is ok for SV to do this. I think that it is logical to assume that if someone cares about a game enough to preorder it over half a year in advance will want to subscribe to it, but that's just my opinion.
First off a great number of people simply have there monthly fee's put on a seperate card like me. DnL taught people this was a neccessity.
Secondly people do buy MMO's for others as gifts. If I buy FFXI for my son do you think SE will assume that I wish to pay his subscription fee as well? No lol, because that would be illegal seeing as how I never agreed to it.
In any case people have to setup and or at least agree to pay for a subscription before SV can charge them. No company is allowed to make assumptions with consumers money. You must agree before they can take money from you. Trying to shame people into not carring isn't going to work either.
"So your admitting you paid to beta"
Yeah lol, there are people out there that did and there are also numerous others that tried the game and decided it wasn't there cup of tea. Not having been asked to setup a subscription and enter there payment info and agreeing to it no one in there right mind would not and should not have to assume that they're setup to pay for the subscription anyways.
Bottom line is people did not setup a subscription nor did they agree to one and nor did they enter the payment info to be used. SV has taken it upon them to assume that everyone that pre-ordered there MMO wants to sub to it, and that they want to use the information and payment method they pre-ordered with. Which all boils down to a big bag of illegal.
Granted it isn't illegal until they charge someone without there permission so until then this thread was just a friendly warning out there that wether people know it or not SV has made a lot of assumptions with their money and without their knowledge. For that Herc deserves a bit of thanks as this thread is a beneficial one to some at least.
If and when SV decides to join the ranks of DnL (Unauthorized charges to consumers cards) hopefully they won't flee to france and curse there player base out for not being willing to pay for things they didn't want and or did not agree to.
Edited to add: Whats going to be really interesting to see is wether or not those that canceled there pre-order and recieved refunds through charge backs or w/e means get charged due to an auto renew on there subscription. SV really needs to hope that doesn't happen
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
That's just it.. they DIDN'T agree to it. If you have information that you would like to share on the matter please link it. Otherwise what you are saying is incorrect.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.
what you fail to realize or read dude, people are saying it wasnt originally avialable, it was put in later. so how can a person opt out if they have no option to do so? come on tell me if you know. if not then move on, its illegal to hve no opt out feature then put in later and then charge a person for the payment. it is in fact illegal, or they hvae to give you an announcement that you will be charged with this new feature that has been enabled.
What you fail to realize dude is that it does not become illegal until they actually charge you! Also yes I do realize that many people do not know about this added feature so this is not a case about if you were asked or not this is a case about making a announcement and sending out notifications about this added feature to the payments.
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.
what you fail to realize or read dude, people are saying it wasnt originally avialable, it was put in later. so how can a person opt out if they have no option to do so? come on tell me if you know. if not then move on, its illegal to hve no opt out feature then put in later and then charge a person for the payment. it is in fact illegal, or they hvae to give you an announcement that you will be charged with this new feature that has been enabled.
What you fail to realize dude is that it does not become illegal until they actually charge you! Also yes I do realize that many people do not know about this added feature so this is not a case about if you were asked or not this is a case about making a announcement and sending out notifications about this added feature to the payments.
you guys are jumping the gun WAY TOO EARLY!
If they themselves stated that they are going to charge people, then it's not jumping the gun -- it's making sure that a small flame that SV lit doesn't turn into a big fire.
Again -- what they are proposing is ILLEGAL, and UNETHICAL. I stress the latter more because it says volumes about the company with whom many people are dealing with, and if we add up all the hype, lies, and unprofessionalism that has exuded from this company, it's no wonder they will go to the area of illegality in order to get people to stick with the game, even if they don't want to.
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.
what you fail to realize or read dude, people are saying it wasnt originally avialable, it was put in later. so how can a person opt out if they have no option to do so? come on tell me if you know. if not then move on, its illegal to hve no opt out feature then put in later and then charge a person for the payment. it is in fact illegal, or they hvae to give you an announcement that you will be charged with this new feature that has been enabled.
What you fail to realize dude is that it does not become illegal until they actually charge you! Also yes I do realize that many people do not know about this added feature so this is not a case about if you were asked or not this is a case about making a announcement and sending out notifications about this added feature to the payments.
you guys are jumping the gun WAY TOO EARLY! However it would been nicer if you just notified people about this instead of TROLLING about it.
Then why didnt they just dump the whole auto renew thing and then send announcements to people saying that they should set up a subscription if they wanted to play the game?
Im sorry, but there is no excuse you can make for what they are doing.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
What you fail to realize dude is that it does not become illegal until they actually charge you! Also yes I do realize that many people do not know about this added feature so this is not a case about if you were asked or not this is a case about making a announcement and sending out notifications about this added feature to the payments.
you guys are jumping the gun WAY TOO EARLY!
Added feature? ROFL... how is "We are going to unilaterally decide to use your pre-order info to sign you up for a recurring subscription you never agreed to" a feature?
Even sending out an email isn't enough. You can't just sign people up and charge them unless they go opt out. Anyone that did NOT chose a subscription should default to NOT RENEW. It's really that simple. Not only that but all of their billing info should be WIPED. You have to give permission to a company to allow them to keep your information stored. Just because I pre-ordered a game 9 months ago I don't want my CC info available to ANYONE.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What you fail to realize dude is that it does not become illegal until they actually charge you! Also yes I do realize that many people do not know about this added feature so this is not a case about if you were asked or not this is a case about making a announcement and sending out notifications about this added feature to the payments.
you guys are jumping the gun WAY TOO EARLY!
Added feature? ROFL... how is "We are going to unilaterally decide to use your pre-order info to sign you up for a recurring subscription you never agreed to" a feature?
Even sending out an email isn't enough. You can't just sign people up and charge them unless they go opt out. Anyone that did NOT chose a subscription should default to NOT RENEW. It's really that simple. Not only that but all of their billing info should be WIPED. You have to give permission to a company to allow them to keep your information stored. Just because I pre-ordered a game 9 months ago I don't want my CC info available to ANYONE.
The fact that they stored your credit card information for this long is worrying in and of itself. Says a lot about SV, yet again.
Just a note that it's almost end of business day in Sweden and not a single response from SV on their forums. Let's hope this silence means that they are reconsidering their policy and not simply ignoring the customers asking for clarification!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.
what you fail to realize or read dude, people are saying it wasnt originally avialable, it was put in later. so how can a person opt out if they have no option to do so? come on tell me if you know. if not then move on, its illegal to hve no opt out feature then put in later and then charge a person for the payment. it is in fact illegal, or they hvae to give you an announcement that you will be charged with this new feature that has been enabled.
What you fail to realize dude is that it does not become illegal until they actually charge you! Also yes I do realize that many people do not know about this added feature so this is not a case about if you were asked or not this is a case about making a announcement and sending out notifications about this added feature to the payments.
you guys are jumping the gun WAY TOO EARLY! However it would been nicer if you just notified people about this instead of TROLLING about it.
Then why didnt they just dump the whole auto renew thing and then send announcements to people saying that they should set up a subscription if they wanted to play the game?
Im sorry, but there is no excuse you can make for what they are doing.
Yeah I do not understand that either however I am not going to go and say a company is doing something illegal when they have not done anything illegal. That is my problem with some of the post right now. You guys are calling this action illegal however it is not illegal until it has actually happened. It does not take a lawyer to know this. If you were to go to a lawyer right now and sue them you would lose because for now it is LEGAL.
Don't get me wrong I do agree that this is unethical and the way they are doing it is really poor. However we can not cry wolf until it actually happens because then it just looks like you are trolling and trying to ripe at the company every little move they do.
P.S. It is legal for a company to add more payments onto your original plan however like I said before they have to TELL you before hand that you will be charged extra or will be charged again.
I am just really glad that I use my debit card instead of credit cards. In every payment I make online, the card info is useless the next month, and even if it wasnt useless, they wouldnt be able to take any more from me, because I set the amount available to each transaction. I feel blessed =P
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Wait, I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Can someone explain this for me? Really simply? I got auto-renew, but how is it bad. Most MMO's have an auto-renew feature. Did they not sign up for anything? I mean, I know for at least a few MMOs I've payed for the game and they took my card number and put it down to pay for the time after the free month unless I cancelled. Is this any different?
Not one of them started your subscription automatically, not one of them started your included game time automatically.
Don't know what all the people in this thread saying this is normal are talking about. They are on crack.
UHmm AOC does just that and all SOE games do, just about every mmo I've played does. Once you enter cc details on your payment options it is set to auto renew unless you cancel. Come to think of it I've never bought an MMO I didn't have to subscribe to (enter cc) in order to redeem my first free thirty days.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Wait, I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Can someone explain this for me? Really simply? I got auto-renew, but how is it bad. Most MMO's have an auto-renew feature. Did they not sign up for anything? I mean, I know for at least a few MMOs I've payed for the game and they took my card number and put it down to pay for the time after the free month unless I cancelled. Is this any different?
what is going on is that they added an auto renew after many people already payed for the game. So people that do not want to play this game anymore are/might get charged and they do not know it. Really the big deal is that SV did not notify that this feature was added.
Wait, I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Can someone explain this for me? Really simply? I got auto-renew, but how is it bad. Most MMO's have an auto-renew feature. Did they not sign up for anything? I mean, I know for at least a few MMOs I've payed for the game and they took my card number and put it down to pay for the time after the free month unless I cancelled. Is this any different?
When we pre-ordered the game, we did not have the OPTION to sign up for a subscription.
SV decided that they wanted us to subscribe without us choosing to or not. Basically they are going to start billing people that never actually said when/if they wanted to subscribe at all, much less choose a subscription plan.
And without letting people know of the automatic subscription and automatic renewal -- they are doing something illegal because they are charging you without informing you or giving you any options.
Wait, I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Can someone explain this for me? Really simply? I got auto-renew, but how is it bad. Most MMO's have an auto-renew feature. Did they not sign up for anything? I mean, I know for at least a few MMOs I've payed for the game and they took my card number and put it down to pay for the time after the free month unless I cancelled. Is this any different?
The difference has been explained quite a few times in great detail. In short.. if you pre-ordered the game 9 months ago there WAS NO subscription info.. you simply pre-ordered a game. Now a few weeks back the company added a new screen to the acct page and it appears that everyone who pre-ordered the game is set to a renewing subscription by default. Even people who simply bought the game last July and wrote the game off as a failure and deleted it from their system. Those people are (seemingly) going to get charged a subscription fee when the game goes live.
if you are really interested in reading more info just scroll back over the prior pages. Everything is explained in great detail.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Wait, I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Can someone explain this for me? Really simply? I got auto-renew, but how is it bad. Most MMO's have an auto-renew feature. Did they not sign up for anything? I mean, I know for at least a few MMOs I've payed for the game and they took my card number and put it down to pay for the time after the free month unless I cancelled. Is this any different?
what is going on is that they added an auto renew after many people already payed for the game. So people that do not want to play this game anymore are/might get charged and they do not know it. Really the big deal is that SV did not notify that this feature was added.
Oh. Well a lot of games have that. They should just tell everyone to cancel their subscription if they don't want to play. Simple as that. I hope they do that. Most people will notice it anyway. Unless they don't actually follow their credit card bill. : in which case I have a whole nother speech for them. :P
UHmm AOC does just that and all SOE games do, just about every mmo I've played does. Once you enter cc details on your payment options it is set to auto renew unless you cancel. Come to think of it I've never bought an MMO I didn't have to subscribe to (enter cc) in order to redeem my first free thirty days.
So you are claiming that by simply purchasing the game... AoC and SoE don't mention you will be enrolled in a recuring subscription and just start billing you? Really? That has never been my experience...
Of course when you go to play the live game for the first time most companies will ASK YOU to signup for a subscription and require that you enter your billing info and chose a plan. VERY different from what happened here.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Wait, I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Can someone explain this for me? Really simply? I got auto-renew, but how is it bad. Most MMO's have an auto-renew feature. Did they not sign up for anything? I mean, I know for at least a few MMOs I've payed for the game and they took my card number and put it down to pay for the time after the free month unless I cancelled. Is this any different?
what is going on is that they added an auto renew after many people already payed for the game. So people that do not want to play this game anymore are/might get charged and they do not know it. Really the big deal is that SV did not notify that this feature was added.
Oh. Well a lot of games have that. They should just tell everyone to cancel their subscription if they don't want to play. Simple as that. I hope they do that. Most people will notice it anyway. Unless they don't actually follow their credit card bill. : in which case I have a whole nother speech for them. :P
Name ONE game that has a subscription set up for you without you actually choosing to subscribe.
Comments
It's not borderline illegal, if they charge anyone that has not setup a subscription it is illegal. There's a reason every other MMO in existance has you go through the process of filling out billing information and agreeing to a subscription term instead of doing what SV has done.
The people saying this is common practice have 0 clue and either their mom and dad generally handle the account setup or this is their first MMO they've played.
Bottom line is there using the information you pre-ordered with without asking you if it's ok. They've taken it upon themselve's to assume that you agree to a subscription plan and that the card you used to pre-order the game with is the card you wish to use to pay for this subscription.
Thats bad enough on it's own but to make it worse people that found no intrest in MO after they pre-ordered it have no idea that they need to go and cancel a subscription that they never signed up for. Because not only is this not common practice, it's simply not done because it is illegal. You can not charge someone that does not authorize you to do so. Unless an individual fills in their info and hits agree then you can not charge them a subscription fee.
And for those that keep trying to say this is common practice, it's not lol and there is a very good reason it's not. I personally hope no one decided to get MO as a gift for someone. Because SV decided that meant they wanted to pay for a monthly subscription for that person as well lol.
I did not preorder this game, so I do not have any experience with this issue. I am not a lawyer nor do I know anything about the laws concerning an issue such as this. I'm sure everyone posting on this forum is in the same situation as me when it comes to the legal part. Though I do know, in the US at least, that you are innocent until proven guilty. So far I haven't seen or heard of any proof that would suggest SV is doing anything illegal, other than a few angry posters.
I say that nothing will come of this, no legal actions anyway. If something does come of it, then i will be one surprised person.
Anyways, what is the point in preordering the game if you have no intentions of subscrbing? Unless you want to admit that you payed to play a beta that is.
I personally think that it is ok for SV to do this. I think that it is logical to assume that if someone cares about a game enough to preorder it over half a year in advance will want to subscribe to it, but that's just my opinion.
Mr. Bagguns
what you fail to realize or read dude, people are saying it wasnt originally avialable, it was put in later. so how can a person opt out if they have no option to do so? come on tell me if you know. if not then move on, its illegal to hve no opt out feature then put in later and then charge a person for the payment. it is in fact illegal, or they hvae to give you an announcement that you will be charged with this new feature that has been enabled.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Ever bought a game you played for the 30 free days and then cancelled? Well, many wrote off their pre-order months ago and did not know that their subscription is automatically renewed.
And no, it's not "okay". It's criminal IF they do this.
Because SV hinted that the pre-order would ensure that we had the *ability* to play when launch came around. Because you know, there was going to be "limited supply" and a pre-order would ensure that ability to play.
You may be innocent until proven guilty but that's only as a court judges your actions. And the actions they are taking are illegal. Nobody agreed to a subscription, people only agreed to a PRODUCT. The beta access as has always been maintained, was a "bonus". What you paid for was the ability to play when the game was released.
Either way, I am hoping that SV goes forward with this and doesn't bother to change their standard. It will show their unethical behavior, and since it is a criminal act, that "innocent until proven guilty" won't last very long if they simply look at their history of behavior.
Yep. I am amazed that people simply don't have the comprehension to understand this.
It's unethical. And it's illegal.
the company still has an obligation to notify all account users of the change to the payment method if any, such as in this case they finally included a subscription method. (despite the fact the stupid game still isnt even finished, yet people are already getting charged) there wasnt a subscription method prior to this where people could set it to not renew, so therefore SV was negligent in this fact.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
First off a great number of people simply have there monthly fee's put on a seperate card like me. DnL taught people this was a neccessity.
Secondly people do buy MMO's for others as gifts. If I buy FFXI for my son do you think SE will assume that I wish to pay his subscription fee as well? No lol, because that would be illegal seeing as how I never agreed to it.
In any case people have to setup and or at least agree to pay for a subscription before SV can charge them. No company is allowed to make assumptions with consumers money. You must agree before they can take money from you. Trying to shame people into not carring isn't going to work either.
"So your admitting you paid to beta"
Yeah lol, there are people out there that did and there are also numerous others that tried the game and decided it wasn't there cup of tea. Not having been asked to setup a subscription and enter there payment info and agreeing to it no one in there right mind would not and should not have to assume that they're setup to pay for the subscription anyways.
Bottom line is people did not setup a subscription nor did they agree to one and nor did they enter the payment info to be used. SV has taken it upon them to assume that everyone that pre-ordered there MMO wants to sub to it, and that they want to use the information and payment method they pre-ordered with. Which all boils down to a big bag of illegal.
Granted it isn't illegal until they charge someone without there permission so until then this thread was just a friendly warning out there that wether people know it or not SV has made a lot of assumptions with their money and without their knowledge. For that Herc deserves a bit of thanks as this thread is a beneficial one to some at least.
If and when SV decides to join the ranks of DnL (Unauthorized charges to consumers cards) hopefully they won't flee to france and curse there player base out for not being willing to pay for things they didn't want and or did not agree to.
Edited to add: Whats going to be really interesting to see is wether or not those that canceled there pre-order and recieved refunds through charge backs or w/e means get charged due to an auto renew on there subscription. SV really needs to hope that doesn't happen
That's just it.. they DIDN'T agree to it. If you have information that you would like to share on the matter please link it. Otherwise what you are saying is incorrect.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What you fail to realize dude is that it does not become illegal until they actually charge you! Also yes I do realize that many people do not know about this added feature so this is not a case about if you were asked or not this is a case about making a announcement and sending out notifications about this added feature to the payments.
[Mod Edit]
If they themselves stated that they are going to charge people, then it's not jumping the gun -- it's making sure that a small flame that SV lit doesn't turn into a big fire.
Again -- what they are proposing is ILLEGAL, and UNETHICAL. I stress the latter more because it says volumes about the company with whom many people are dealing with, and if we add up all the hype, lies, and unprofessionalism that has exuded from this company, it's no wonder they will go to the area of illegality in order to get people to stick with the game, even if they don't want to.
Then why didnt they just dump the whole auto renew thing and then send announcements to people saying that they should set up a subscription if they wanted to play the game?
Im sorry, but there is no excuse you can make for what they are doing.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Added feature? ROFL... how is "We are going to unilaterally decide to use your pre-order info to sign you up for a recurring subscription you never agreed to" a feature?
Even sending out an email isn't enough. You can't just sign people up and charge them unless they go opt out. Anyone that did NOT chose a subscription should default to NOT RENEW. It's really that simple. Not only that but all of their billing info should be WIPED. You have to give permission to a company to allow them to keep your information stored. Just because I pre-ordered a game 9 months ago I don't want my CC info available to ANYONE.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The fact that they stored your credit card information for this long is worrying in and of itself. Says a lot about SV, yet again.
Just a note that it's almost end of business day in Sweden and not a single response from SV on their forums. Let's hope this silence means that they are reconsidering their policy and not simply ignoring the customers asking for clarification!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah I do not understand that either however I am not going to go and say a company is doing something illegal when they have not done anything illegal. That is my problem with some of the post right now. You guys are calling this action illegal however it is not illegal until it has actually happened. It does not take a lawyer to know this. If you were to go to a lawyer right now and sue them you would lose because for now it is LEGAL.
Don't get me wrong I do agree that this is unethical and the way they are doing it is really poor. However we can not cry wolf until it actually happens because then it just looks like you are trolling and trying to ripe at the company every little move they do.
P.S. It is legal for a company to add more payments onto your original plan however like I said before they have to TELL you before hand that you will be charged extra or will be charged again.
I am just really glad that I use my debit card instead of credit cards. In every payment I make online, the card info is useless the next month, and even if it wasnt useless, they wouldnt be able to take any more from me, because I set the amount available to each transaction. I feel blessed =P
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Wait, I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Can someone explain this for me? Really simply? I got auto-renew, but how is it bad. Most MMO's have an auto-renew feature. Did they not sign up for anything? I mean, I know for at least a few MMOs I've payed for the game and they took my card number and put it down to pay for the time after the free month unless I cancelled. Is this any different?
UHmm AOC does just that and all SOE games do, just about every mmo I've played does. Once you enter cc details on your payment options it is set to auto renew unless you cancel. Come to think of it I've never bought an MMO I didn't have to subscribe to (enter cc) in order to redeem my first free thirty days.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
what is going on is that they added an auto renew after many people already payed for the game. So people that do not want to play this game anymore are/might get charged and they do not know it. Really the big deal is that SV did not notify that this feature was added.
When we pre-ordered the game, we did not have the OPTION to sign up for a subscription.
SV decided that they wanted us to subscribe without us choosing to or not. Basically they are going to start billing people that never actually said when/if they wanted to subscribe at all, much less choose a subscription plan.
And without letting people know of the automatic subscription and automatic renewal -- they are doing something illegal because they are charging you without informing you or giving you any options.
The difference has been explained quite a few times in great detail. In short.. if you pre-ordered the game 9 months ago there WAS NO subscription info.. you simply pre-ordered a game. Now a few weeks back the company added a new screen to the acct page and it appears that everyone who pre-ordered the game is set to a renewing subscription by default. Even people who simply bought the game last July and wrote the game off as a failure and deleted it from their system. Those people are (seemingly) going to get charged a subscription fee when the game goes live.
if you are really interested in reading more info just scroll back over the prior pages. Everything is explained in great detail.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Oh. Well a lot of games have that. They should just tell everyone to cancel their subscription if they don't want to play. Simple as that. I hope they do that. Most people will notice it anyway. Unless they don't actually follow their credit card bill. : in which case I have a whole nother speech for them. :P
So you are claiming that by simply purchasing the game... AoC and SoE don't mention you will be enrolled in a recuring subscription and just start billing you? Really? That has never been my experience...
Of course when you go to play the live game for the first time most companies will ASK YOU to signup for a subscription and require that you enter your billing info and chose a plan. VERY different from what happened here.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Name ONE game that has a subscription set up for you without you actually choosing to subscribe.