Dude. No offense but you can't even spell guarantee let alone do it.
Yes you can discuss my horrid spelling and it is bad I know. Definetly not one of my strong points. Guess it's a good thing I never claimed it was. I guess I could go the pompous route and begin using spell checker on my casual conversations like many do, but for w/e reason it just isn't in me.
But no worries , I understand the physcology behind the intended insult. Can't prove my statement wrong so try and attack something else and by default discredit me lol. w/e the case may be my information is very correct even if my spelling is horrid
Well, I already told you that I believe your opinion on whether or not someone would be awarded any type of judgement for an unauthorized charge on a credit card is wrong. A guarantee usually comes with some kind of proof to back it up, thus negating your guarantee. Even a charge of fraud probably wouldn't stick with a simple $15 unauthorized charge...it's just common sense. Unless of course you have some type of example for case law that would show that a 'crime' like this can warrant a significant penalty.
Dude. No offense but you can't even spell guarantee let alone do it.
Yes you can discuss my horrid spelling and it is bad I know. Definetly not one of my strong points. Guess it's a good thing I never claimed it was. I guess I could go the pompous route and begin using spell checker on my casual conversations like many do, but for w/e reason it just isn't in me.
But no worries , I understand the physcology behind the intended insult. Can't prove my statement wrong so try and attack something else and by default discredit me lol. w/e the case may be my information is very correct even if my spelling is horrid
Well, I already told you that I believe your opinion on whether or not someone would be awarded any type of judgement for an unauthorized charge on a credit card is wrong. A guarantee usually comes with some kind of proof to back it up, thus negating your guarantee. Even a charge of fraud probably wouldn't stick with a simple $15 unauthorized charge...it's just common sense. Unless of course you have some type of example for case law that would show that a 'crime' like this can warrant a significant penalty.
A crime like what? Theft and fraud? Do I really need to cite theft and fraud cases that warrented a significant penalty beyond the initial monetary loss? I am sure you know how to use google. When fraud or theft are involved the suit becomes about more than just the initial loss.
And again, it doesn't matter if you believe me or don't I simply stated my information was correct even if my spelling was horrid. When an crime is involved in a matter like this the initial monetary sum lost becomes less important in the final verdict. But I'm not here to give any lessons on law so believe what you will but if your truly interested in educating yourself then by all means look it up
"Please note that once you choose a subscription method and interval, and finish registering your
account, you will subsequently be automatically charged unless you manually cancel your
subscription. You may do so at any time by logging onto the "account management" site on
www.mortalonline.com, and there use the "cancel subscription" option. Your account will stay open
until the end of the current billing cycle."
In terms and conditions PDF on the side of the account creation page. Dated 2009-07-13, the day pre-orders opened up. Maybe we should wait until some real proof comes up because as far as I'm concerned when I pre-ordered I didn't select any method and right there they clearly state "once you choose a subscription method".
Choosing the subscription method is most likely when you choose the payment method.
They already said that when they pre-ordered that they didn't have the option to choose a subscription model. Just because the legal stuff was there doesn't mean that the options were.
-------- "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt: Front: UNO Chemistry Club Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
And I tell you this much -- I don't have the option to manage my account as I'm "banned", if I billed for anything when the game launches, I will certainly sue SV. And yes, I actually have the funds (and a company subsidized legal plan) to do it.
You're gonna sue SV for like what... $15?
Why not just sue them now? He can say that he's seen the minority report and every episode of Quantum leap and Time tunnel and knows that SV will steal $15 from him in the future so he'd like to take them to court now over it.
I got this in the terms and conditions,
"
Mortal Online – Terms & Conditions
Payment for Mortal Online subscriptions can be made using different payment methods that may
vary according to availability in your country or region.
Please note that once you choose a subscription method and interval, and finish registering your
account, you will subsequently be automatically charged unless you manually cancel your
subscription. You may do so at any time by logging onto the "account management" site on
www.mortalonline.com, and there use the "cancel subscription" option. Your account will stay open
until the end of the current billing cycle.
In the case of Real Time Bank Transfers – you actively need to agree to the continuation of your
subscription. In either of the cases you will get a reminder sent via e-mail prior to expire date of your
current subscription period.
Note also that it may take a little while for the credit card company to process your payment. If you
want to cancel your subscription we urge you to do so at least 24 hours before your subscription
period is scheduled for renewal.
Prices on license fee and monthly subscriptions are subject to be changed by Star Vault AB at any
Now considering No one has signed up to a subscription plan you can't cancel it (there's no cancel button yet) so all I can assume is that what you see is a place holder for when it goes live. SV have stated they will only charge you a fee after you've selected a subscription plan and then it will auto renew until you cancel. Anyone who is worried about others being charge $15 in the future needs to take into account a subscription plan did not come with the pre-order purchase.
Really I'm just humouring the trolls here since this is a pretty weak attempt to flame SV for a future petty theft that they probably won't commit. Sure people will get accidentaly billed like with all MMORPG companies it's called a "mistake" and is usualy easily rectified.
You guys need to find something they have done to flame as this is a pretty pathetic attempt at persecution in my opinion, and that's coming from a guy who could do way better at persecuting an MMORPG company on his worst day with one hand tied behind his back than all three of you guys put together on your best days! If you don't believe me just ask some of the MODs on this site I'm sure they can verify my credentials
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
If Starvault sends out a notification prior to any charges applying or sets the default to "do not renew" then this entire topic is moot.
That being said the whole discussion of the legal ramifications is getting a bit far fetched. For criminal charges to be in any way relevent, Starvault would first have to be convicted of fraud or petit larceny. To the best of my knowledge, there is no way to have a class action criminal conviction, so best of luck getting your local DA to even consider an international case of petit larceny for $15. Even if they did, it would have to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" that everything was done with the intent of stealing money and not the consequence of negligent behavior. As for civil lawsuits, the awards certainly can exceed the $15, IF you can demonstrate significant damages (i.e. the $15 charge causes your rent check to bounce and you get evicted). In the absence of any damages, you can sue for..... $15.
P.S. @describable: It's called small claims court in the US also
afaik the option to enable and disable your sub isn't in yet. (strange thing here is, they already wanted to release, but still didn't change it)
It's a bit amateur-like yes. But aren't they amateurs?
Or did you hear something from SV before Mortal? Did anyone of them claim that he has developed a MMO before?
No, most of them are under 30 and straight out of college and they say it's there first game.
This is like expecting from a clockmaker who just finished his traineeship to be as fast and neat as the one making clocks for over 10 years now.
I just don't understand why people who expect finished and polished games without any problems anywhere subscribing at an independentgame.
(I even expected the game to go down before release and that I wouldn't get my money back (FURY anyone?) but I'll still help Developers with good ideas and not rant if they can't do it as the big guys)
You should know that you are inpatient and fussy and/or that you have only played major MMO's and that you are accustomed to smooth running MMO's.
In this case I wouldn't subscribe an Independent MMO and just have a look at it until some months after release!
But people don't want to act that smart, they want to make headless decisions so that they can rage at the forums.
afaik the option to enable and disable your sub isn't in yet. (strange thing here is, they already wanted to release, but still didn't change it)
It's a bit amateur-like yes. But aren't they amateurs?
Or did you hear something from SV before Mortal? Did anyone of them claim that he has developed a MMO before?
No, most of them are under 30 and straight out of college and they say it's there first game.
This is like expecting from a clockmaker who just finished his traineeship to be as fast and neat as the one making clocks for over 10 years now.
I just don't understand why people who expect finished and polished games without any problems anywhere subscribing at an independentgame.
(I even expected the game to go down before release and that I wouldn't get my money back (FURY anyone?) but I'll still help Developers with good ideas and not rant if they can't do it as the big guys)
You should know that you are inpatient and fussy and/or that you have only played major MMO's and that you are accustomed to smooth running MMO's.
In this case I wouldn't subscribe an Independent MMO and just have a look at it until some months after release!
But people don't want to act that smart, they want to make headless decisions so that they can rage at the forums.
Sorry, but what has your post to do with the discussion? Because I don't want to be automatically charged for a subscription when I purchase a game only, I am a carebear or something?
It's like entering your credit card to purchase shoes. But the company thinks "hey, we have his information, I'm sure he can use some sport shoes too. Oh, and these red ones would be good for him..." and then charge you for things you didn't even buy.
I sure hope it's only a misunderstanding and they will not automatically charge
It's mad that we even have to discuss the possibility of it
Pretty much every mmo I've bought directly from the devs or publisher on d2d has automatically entered the cc details I used to purchase the game into the account details for subscription. As for the auto subscribe, could someone please post if they have been charged yet..... oh I see, that's no-one then. At least wait until they do what you are accusing them of before starting with the accusations.
The hate campaign being launched by the same 3 or 4 posters on this site is something I would be looking into if I owned SV because this imo goes way, way beyond word of mouth or opinion now.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Sorry, but what has your post to do with the discussion? Because I don't want to be automatically charged for a subscription when I purchase a "PAY TO PLAY" MMO game only,.....
fixed it for you!
Did you ever start playing a P2P MMO where you didn't had to set up a subscription plan? (Which one?)
I always had to.
And did you preorder this game only to play the beta?
Difference was, in most MMO's you were able to chose "gametime card" or you were able to cancel the subscription 1min after setting it up.
This is were they are lacking atm, as I said a bit amateur-like.
Edit: Idk but you can cancle your subscription now. You can go on "do not renew" and then you won't be charged for the first month after free month, so "I don't want to be automatically charged for a subscription when I purchase a game only"
doesn't count anymore.
Still left: No chance to choose when free month starts!
This is not common yes. Normally you get your Beta-code and then have to enter the Release-code seperately. So you choose when your free month starts, when entering your Release-code.
This is something different here and I can understand that people don't want to play straight after Beta and wait some months .
So they should allow you to chose when the free month starts!
But imo if I would care so much about 15$ then I wouldn't play MMO's at all and would work at a side-job, instead of useless playing at that time.
Edit: And as Ange10 and mrw0lf said.
damn made a much too long post, now people have much sentences to look out for the smallest error, or missspelling or where I didn't explain everything from the scratch. ^^
1.In MO you are not asked to choose a subscription type. You are automatically charged (if it is true) with the information you bought the game with.
2. You are not asked for your agreement for being charged a subscription.
3.There is an option to cancel now, but you have to agree to be charged. Just because there is an option to cancel does not mean they can just charge you.
4.Those that purchased the game 9 months ago did not have the option to cancel. Some might have written off the game as a bad investment and might not know that their account is set to "renew", since in every other game, you have to do the steps 1 and 2 first.
I think that this is somewhat of an industry standard these days. Although many (don't know if all?) MMOGs state clearly that the first month is free with purchase of the game, you'll still have to enter a valid credit card information (or a game time card for games that have such). I'd say that such a method is even more unethical, i.e., if you want to seek such behaviour. After all, for a person who does not own a credit card it means, de facto, that you have to pay for an additional month right from the start in order to even get to play your free month.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Do some of you guys even READ? Did you take the time to read the opening post, or anything beyond that? Man, I'm repeating this again and again.
This is not about having to pay a subscription.
But I never played a game that used my payment information I purchased the game with to bill me for my subscription. I always had to choose my payment method and agree to start playing.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
It is very telling that this story was reposted on the Mortal Online forums, with the poster saying "Come help me" in regards to disputing this problem.
This is *not* a standard practice for any service out there. It's one thing if we bought the SUBSCRIPTION -- we did not. We bought a pre-order for the game because the hype from SV was that there would be only limited supply. We know that now to be totally false as well. When I bought the game, I did not agree to, nor did anybody else -- a subscription agreement. At the time, there was no set amount on the monthly fee, nor was there an option to set it to 'recurring' or not.
As for any lawsuit -- it is not about the money. It is about "punitive" damages to punish SV for engaging in unethical and illegal behavior. And given the amount of complaints they will no doubt receive, I have little doubt that putting forward a case would result in a class action lawsuit, because of all the parties that have similar problems.
Now, I honestly don't want to go through that hassle and would much rather see SV set all subscriptions to renew manually -- especially for those players that bought the pre-order. But that's not what they are doing, and they are making this decision ACTIVELY and PURPOSELY. They are going to charge you a monthly fee after your first month is over, even if you didn't agree to subscribe in the first place. Most MMOs have a "key" that you'd input and start your service, and then proceed to have you enter a subscription type and length accordingly. SV is as we all know by now, an unethical company in many respects, and this simply adds to the pile of stuff they have been misleading about. The only problem this time is, that it's illegal because nobody agreed to a subscription type and as such, if they are going to get hit after the first month with a recurring fee without them knowing well -- I can promise you that I won't even need to start the lawsuit, because there will be so many people coming forward and complaining that the EU trade commission will probably get a hold of it and take care of it themselves.
And for those of you defending this behavior -- shame on you.
that is some fucked up grimy shit from SV. which is why I will never buy this game. bunch of fucking shady amatuers. Either they know what they are doing and are purposely doing this, or are so stupid that they didnt realize oh maybe we should send an email to everyone who purchased the game about the game being autorenewed by a certain date and check their account and change the autorenew. But my question is why use a person's CC# for a purchase of theg ame when they never inputted the info into the subscription page that was never there. thats criminally negligent they are essentially using your credit card info without your explicit consent. You cant do that as a business, when you have no features avialable for a consumer to "opt" out of the subscription that was never there. AS I said, SV is a bunch of amatuers the BS that has been going on keeps getting bigger and worse lol. it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
But my take is, if your retarded enough to buy a game that isnt finished, then your retarded enough to get beat in the head financially when shit hits the fan. thus here we are in the present form.....people getting charged for subscriptions they never subscribed to lol....why? because it was never there in the first place when they purchased this half finished game. lol such awesome fail.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
NOBODY WHO PREORDERED AGREED TO IT.
Please get that through your head, even the MO forums echo this point and that's the whole reason I even brought it up. A lot of people started to set their subscriptions to not auto-renew as a result of my post and for that I'm very happy as it saves some people getting hit automatically with a charge they never agreed to.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
"Different" business method? Check the laws. Their "method" is borderline illegal. If you don't believe me, check yourself. Those people bought the box, not a subscription. They haven't agreed to be charged for any subscription yet.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
This just sounds like a bunch of whiners bitching about how they don't like the game they bought and now they are trying to blame the company because the game didn't turn out the way the hoped.
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
"Different" business method? Check the laws. Their "method" is borderline illegal. If you don't believe me, check yourself. Those people bought the box, not a subscription. They haven't agreed to be charged for any subscription yet.
no your right, it is technically illegal to have no way for the consumer to "opt" out of payment if the product does not suit their needs. In this instance SV had set up a preorder which of course is normal with most game companies today. However unlike most game companies they were idiotic enough not to include an opt out for subscription, so by all regards the consumer was under the direct assumption they were only purchasing the content game itself, not a subscription. SV later included a subscription method and page attached to each account regardless of the account holders current standing with the game. This is what automatically put their CC# that was attached to their Account into effective payment by default by SV. WHich is illegal because SV has a standing obligation to notify all account holders who purchased the preorder game that their account has been set to autorenew and they should set it to no renew if they wish not to be charged a subscription fee. This very omission makes them financially accountable to refunding all accountholders who felt they were wrongly charged payment via the CC# info. this very act nullifies any contractual obligation by the consumer to offer payment if the company or corporate entity does not have available features or means to allow the consumer to opt out of payment.
This can very well turn into a class action lawsuit if enough people got together.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.
Comments
Well, I already told you that I believe your opinion on whether or not someone would be awarded any type of judgement for an unauthorized charge on a credit card is wrong. A guarantee usually comes with some kind of proof to back it up, thus negating your guarantee. Even a charge of fraud probably wouldn't stick with a simple $15 unauthorized charge...it's just common sense. Unless of course you have some type of example for case law that would show that a 'crime' like this can warrant a significant penalty.
http://www.twitch.tv/got_game_tv/ (livestream)
The War Z Shenanigans(youtube)
DayZ FUNTIME!
Mortal Online Vids
A crime like what? Theft and fraud? Do I really need to cite theft and fraud cases that warrented a significant penalty beyond the initial monetary loss? I am sure you know how to use google. When fraud or theft are involved the suit becomes about more than just the initial loss.
And again, it doesn't matter if you believe me or don't I simply stated my information was correct even if my spelling was horrid. When an crime is involved in a matter like this the initial monetary sum lost becomes less important in the final verdict. But I'm not here to give any lessons on law so believe what you will but if your truly interested in educating yourself then by all means look it up
Choosing the subscription method is most likely when you choose the payment method.
http://www.twitch.tv/got_game_tv/ (livestream)
The War Z Shenanigans(youtube)
DayZ FUNTIME!
Mortal Online Vids
They already said that when they pre-ordered that they didn't have the option to choose a subscription model. Just because the legal stuff was there doesn't mean that the options were.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Why not just sue them now? He can say that he's seen the minority report and every episode of Quantum leap and Time tunnel and knows that SV will steal $15 from him in the future so he'd like to take them to court now over it.
I got this in the terms and conditions,
"
Mortal Online – Terms & Conditions
Payment for Mortal Online subscriptions can be made using different payment methods that may
vary according to availability in your country or region.
Please note that once you choose a subscription method and interval, and finish registering your
account, you will subsequently be automatically charged unless you manually cancel your
subscription. You may do so at any time by logging onto the "account management" site on
www.mortalonline.com, and there use the "cancel subscription" option. Your account will stay open
until the end of the current billing cycle.
In the case of Real Time Bank Transfers – you actively need to agree to the continuation of your
subscription. In either of the cases you will get a reminder sent via e-mail prior to expire date of your
current subscription period.
Note also that it may take a little while for the credit card company to process your payment. If you
want to cancel your subscription we urge you to do so at least 24 hours before your subscription
period is scheduled for renewal.
Prices on license fee and monthly subscriptions are subject to be changed by Star Vault AB at any
time without any further notice.
All payments for Mortal Online are handled by Global Collect http://www.globalcollect.com/
Please note: It's only possible to change to, or between direct debit and credit cards when there are
less than 30 days left of your subscription. If there is still time left on your account when you change
to credit card and direct debit payments, the new card will be charged immediately and time will be
added on top of your current subscription period.
For additional information please contact:
Henrik Nyström, Board member and CEO Tel: 040-13 89 40
Visiting Address: Fax: 040-13 61 51
Stadiongatan 60 E-mail: [email protected]
217 62 Malmö
Star Vault is an independent game developer based in Malmö, Sweden. The company is today developing an online
game called Mortal Online, which is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG).
www.starvault.se
www.mortalonline.com"
Now considering No one has signed up to a subscription plan you can't cancel it (there's no cancel button yet) so all I can assume is that what you see is a place holder for when it goes live. SV have stated they will only charge you a fee after you've selected a subscription plan and then it will auto renew until you cancel. Anyone who is worried about others being charge $15 in the future needs to take into account a subscription plan did not come with the pre-order purchase.
Really I'm just humouring the trolls here since this is a pretty weak attempt to flame SV for a future petty theft that they probably won't commit. Sure people will get accidentaly billed like with all MMORPG companies it's called a "mistake" and is usualy easily rectified.
You guys need to find something they have done to flame as this is a pretty pathetic attempt at persecution in my opinion, and that's coming from a guy who could do way better at persecuting an MMORPG company on his worst day with one hand tied behind his back than all three of you guys put together on your best days! If you don't believe me just ask some of the MODs on this site I'm sure they can verify my credentials
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
If Starvault sends out a notification prior to any charges applying or sets the default to "do not renew" then this entire topic is moot.
That being said the whole discussion of the legal ramifications is getting a bit far fetched. For criminal charges to be in any way relevent, Starvault would first have to be convicted of fraud or petit larceny. To the best of my knowledge, there is no way to have a class action criminal conviction, so best of luck getting your local DA to even consider an international case of petit larceny for $15. Even if they did, it would have to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" that everything was done with the intent of stealing money and not the consequence of negligent behavior. As for civil lawsuits, the awards certainly can exceed the $15, IF you can demonstrate significant damages (i.e. the $15 charge causes your rent check to bounce and you get evicted). In the absence of any damages, you can sue for..... $15.
P.S. @describable: It's called small claims court in the US also
afaik the option to enable and disable your sub isn't in yet. (strange thing here is, they already wanted to release, but still didn't change it)
It's a bit amateur-like yes. But aren't they amateurs?
Or did you hear something from SV before Mortal? Did anyone of them claim that he has developed a MMO before?
No, most of them are under 30 and straight out of college and they say it's there first game.
This is like expecting from a clockmaker who just finished his traineeship to be as fast and neat as the one making clocks for over 10 years now.
I just don't understand why people who expect finished and polished games without any problems anywhere subscribing at an independentgame.
(I even expected the game to go down before release and that I wouldn't get my money back (FURY anyone?) but I'll still help Developers with good ideas and not rant if they can't do it as the big guys)
You should know that you are inpatient and fussy and/or that you have only played major MMO's and that you are accustomed to smooth running MMO's.
In this case I wouldn't subscribe an Independent MMO and just have a look at it until some months after release!
But people don't want to act that smart, they want to make headless decisions so that they can rage at the forums.
1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO
Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon
Sorry, but what has your post to do with the discussion? Because I don't want to be automatically charged for a subscription when I purchase a game only, I am a carebear or something?
It's like entering your credit card to purchase shoes. But the company thinks "hey, we have his information, I'm sure he can use some sport shoes too. Oh, and these red ones would be good for him..." and then charge you for things you didn't even buy.
I sure hope it's only a misunderstanding and they will not automatically charge
It's mad that we even have to discuss the possibility of it
this whole thread is a lie.
no one is paying for anything yet, and the developers stated that you can disable the auto renew.
and also you have 1 free month when you bought the game, and you can cancel your sub, before it takes money out 1 month later.
MOD please close this thread.
thanks.
Pretty much every mmo I've bought directly from the devs or publisher on d2d has automatically entered the cc details I used to purchase the game into the account details for subscription. As for the auto subscribe, could someone please post if they have been charged yet..... oh I see, that's no-one then. At least wait until they do what you are accusing them of before starting with the accusations.
The hate campaign being launched by the same 3 or 4 posters on this site is something I would be looking into if I owned SV because this imo goes way, way beyond word of mouth or opinion now.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
fixed it for you!
Did you ever start playing a P2P MMO where you didn't had to set up a subscription plan? (Which one?)
I always had to.
And did you preorder this game only to play the beta?
Difference was, in most MMO's you were able to chose "gametime card" or you were able to cancel the subscription 1min after setting it up.
This is were they are lacking atm, as I said a bit amateur-like.
Edit: Idk but you can cancle your subscription now. You can go on "do not renew" and then you won't be charged for the first month after free month, so "I don't want to be automatically charged for a subscription when I purchase a game only"
doesn't count anymore.
Still left: No chance to choose when free month starts!
This is not common yes. Normally you get your Beta-code and then have to enter the Release-code seperately. So you choose when your free month starts, when entering your Release-code.
This is something different here and I can understand that people don't want to play straight after Beta and wait some months .
So they should allow you to chose when the free month starts!
But imo if I would care so much about 15$ then I wouldn't play MMO's at all and would work at a side-job, instead of useless playing at that time.
Edit: And as Ange10 and mrw0lf said.
damn made a much too long post, now people have much sentences to look out for the smallest error, or missspelling or where I didn't explain everything from the scratch. ^^
1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO
Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon
The difference is:
1.In MO you are not asked to choose a subscription type. You are automatically charged (if it is true) with the information you bought the game with.
2. You are not asked for your agreement for being charged a subscription.
3.There is an option to cancel now, but you have to agree to be charged. Just because there is an option to cancel does not mean they can just charge you.
4.Those that purchased the game 9 months ago did not have the option to cancel. Some might have written off the game as a bad investment and might not know that their account is set to "renew", since in every other game, you have to do the steps 1 and 2 first.
Is that clear enough for everyone?
lol yes it is a lie. <----sarcasm
We say they sign you up auto wthout your knowledge and you say because you cancel that it is a lie. . Nice. Read the point of the thread first.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I think that this is somewhat of an industry standard these days. Although many (don't know if all?) MMOGs state clearly that the first month is free with purchase of the game, you'll still have to enter a valid credit card information (or a game time card for games that have such). I'd say that such a method is even more unethical, i.e., if you want to seek such behaviour. After all, for a person who does not own a credit card it means, de facto, that you have to pay for an additional month right from the start in order to even get to play your free month.
I don't see what the big problem with this is. If any of you have ever played an mmo before, like 99% of the time you have to subscribe for at least a month in order to activate your account, whether you preordered it or not.
Making any game is a big and expensive undertaking, so I would say the first thing a company would do is get all the legal stuff worked out. I am sure at some point the people that preordered agreed to this whether they knew it or not (and when I say 'whether they knew it or not' I mean they didn't read the fine print not that they were conned). Despite how SV has handled the development of this game, I find it hard to believe that they would do anything illegal.
[Mod Edit]
Mr. Bagguns
I dont think this is true. I bought a few mmos and the only thing I had to setup was an account to log on the game's free month. The game never had me accept a subscription, and never set one up for me without me knowing. wow, lotro, eve, etc. None of them do that. Now, I didnt buy MO, so I wouldnt know how the account creation is done, but I never played a mmo that did this auto renew on purchase thing.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I've played dozens and dozens of mmos.
Not one of them started your subscription automatically, not one of them started your included game time automatically.
Don't know what all the people in this thread saying this is normal are talking about. They are on crack.
Do some of you guys even READ? Did you take the time to read the opening post, or anything beyond that? Man, I'm repeating this again and again.
This is not about having to pay a subscription.
But I never played a game that used my payment information I purchased the game with to bill me for my subscription. I always had to choose my payment method and agree to start playing.
OK, despite whether or not orther mmos do this is beside the point. The point is that you are accusing a company of doing something illegal just because they go about the process of handling subscriptions differently. At some point I'm sure these people agreed to this, just because they don't remember or they didn't take the time to read the fine print doesn't change the fact that they agreed to it.
Mr. Bagguns
It is very telling that this story was reposted on the Mortal Online forums, with the poster saying "Come help me" in regards to disputing this problem.
This is *not* a standard practice for any service out there. It's one thing if we bought the SUBSCRIPTION -- we did not. We bought a pre-order for the game because the hype from SV was that there would be only limited supply. We know that now to be totally false as well. When I bought the game, I did not agree to, nor did anybody else -- a subscription agreement. At the time, there was no set amount on the monthly fee, nor was there an option to set it to 'recurring' or not.
As for any lawsuit -- it is not about the money. It is about "punitive" damages to punish SV for engaging in unethical and illegal behavior. And given the amount of complaints they will no doubt receive, I have little doubt that putting forward a case would result in a class action lawsuit, because of all the parties that have similar problems.
Now, I honestly don't want to go through that hassle and would much rather see SV set all subscriptions to renew manually -- especially for those players that bought the pre-order. But that's not what they are doing, and they are making this decision ACTIVELY and PURPOSELY. They are going to charge you a monthly fee after your first month is over, even if you didn't agree to subscribe in the first place. Most MMOs have a "key" that you'd input and start your service, and then proceed to have you enter a subscription type and length accordingly. SV is as we all know by now, an unethical company in many respects, and this simply adds to the pile of stuff they have been misleading about. The only problem this time is, that it's illegal because nobody agreed to a subscription type and as such, if they are going to get hit after the first month with a recurring fee without them knowing well -- I can promise you that I won't even need to start the lawsuit, because there will be so many people coming forward and complaining that the EU trade commission will probably get a hold of it and take care of it themselves.
And for those of you defending this behavior -- shame on you.
that is some fucked up grimy shit from SV. which is why I will never buy this game. bunch of fucking shady amatuers. Either they know what they are doing and are purposely doing this, or are so stupid that they didnt realize oh maybe we should send an email to everyone who purchased the game about the game being autorenewed by a certain date and check their account and change the autorenew. But my question is why use a person's CC# for a purchase of theg ame when they never inputted the info into the subscription page that was never there. thats criminally negligent they are essentially using your credit card info without your explicit consent. You cant do that as a business, when you have no features avialable for a consumer to "opt" out of the subscription that was never there. AS I said, SV is a bunch of amatuers the BS that has been going on keeps getting bigger and worse lol. it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
But my take is, if your retarded enough to buy a game that isnt finished, then your retarded enough to get beat in the head financially when shit hits the fan. thus here we are in the present form.....people getting charged for subscriptions they never subscribed to lol....why? because it was never there in the first place when they purchased this half finished game. lol such awesome fail.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
NOBODY WHO PREORDERED AGREED TO IT.
Please get that through your head, even the MO forums echo this point and that's the whole reason I even brought it up. A lot of people started to set their subscriptions to not auto-renew as a result of my post and for that I'm very happy as it saves some people getting hit automatically with a charge they never agreed to.
"Different" business method? Check the laws. Their "method" is borderline illegal. If you don't believe me, check yourself. Those people bought the box, not a subscription. They haven't agreed to be charged for any subscription yet.
no your right, it is technically illegal to have no way for the consumer to "opt" out of payment if the product does not suit their needs. In this instance SV had set up a preorder which of course is normal with most game companies today. However unlike most game companies they were idiotic enough not to include an opt out for subscription, so by all regards the consumer was under the direct assumption they were only purchasing the content game itself, not a subscription. SV later included a subscription method and page attached to each account regardless of the account holders current standing with the game. This is what automatically put their CC# that was attached to their Account into effective payment by default by SV. WHich is illegal because SV has a standing obligation to notify all account holders who purchased the preorder game that their account has been set to autorenew and they should set it to no renew if they wish not to be charged a subscription fee. This very omission makes them financially accountable to refunding all accountholders who felt they were wrongly charged payment via the CC# info. this very act nullifies any contractual obligation by the consumer to offer payment if the company or corporate entity does not have available features or means to allow the consumer to opt out of payment.
This can very well turn into a class action lawsuit if enough people got together.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Lets get one false statement put to rest here guys. Yes it is true that you have to agree with a auto-renew feature however there is a way that makes it so you do not have to do that by selecting the option. A company can auto renew you IF they tell you that you when you are putting in your information that you will be billed after your time is up. So you are agreeing by giving your CC info to the company.