Some games require mashing buttons in a precise manner.
If you suggest one can just mash random buttons and kill the Lich King, then you are either just trolling, or just trying to mindlessly bash down the game without any solid basis just out of hatred.
It's actually quite funny, I regularly read stuff like that, and every single time, the person posting it actually doesn't play the game at all or never did the raid encounters he's critisizing. But you clearly have no idea of what that fight is about, or even several other fights in Icecrown Citadel. Dumb players who only mash random buttons will never kill those bosses.
But I guess that just in "real" life, critic is easy for those who don't do anything... and it makes you feel special ;-)
+1 If only people who had actually played were allowed to post, this thread would probably be like 3 pages long if that.
i plaued wow for a long time and really came to hate it.simply because i played a paladin and reallly got tired of not being able to go on raids and get picks.plates drops were for war and cloth were for priest or mages.
But I guess that just in "real" life, critic is easy for those who don't do anything... and it makes you feel special ;-)
+1 If only people who had actually played were allowed to post, this thread would probably be like 3 pages long if that.
+ 2
This would be a great rule if it would also be applied to all the other gamespecific MMO threads, that people could only post if they'd actually played for some time the MMO that's being discussed.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I actually want a fantasy based MMORPG game that sorts the casual gamer out. Maybe somebody will in the future have the guts to market one for us that prefer something different, something more challenging.
Pft good luck with that pipedream. Not gonna happen. MMO designers want the hardcores, the casuals, the pvpers and the pvers. Why only market to one niche when you can get more people and make more money?
Some games require mashing buttons in a precise manner.
If you suggest one can just mash random buttons and kill the Lich King, then you are either just trolling, or just trying to mindlessly bash down the game without any solid basis just out of hatred.
It's actually quite funny, I regularly read stuff like that, and every single time, the person posting it actually doesn't play the game at all or never did the raid encounters he's critisizing. But you clearly have no idea of what that fight is about, or even several other fights in Icecrown Citadel. Dumb players who only mash random buttons will never kill those bosses.
But I guess that just in "real" life, critic is easy for those who don't do anything... and it makes you feel special ;-)
+1 If only people who had actually played were allowed to post, this thread would probably be like 3 pages long if that.
Hows that 10% buff working out for you?
Do you even know what I'm talking about or are you still grinding heroics for your welfare T9?
He's still right. Unless you've played WoW and done Ice Crown Citadel and fought the Lich King your just speaking out of your ass and looking like a total ignorant fool.
Because the company are money grabbing dicks. And a high percentage of the players in WOW dont actually know what a MMORPG is. The just play WOW. They think its the only game of its genre. Ever person that plays seems to be brainwashed by the game.
I don't hate WoW, and I still play it occasionally, but I hold a rather large grudge against it for many of the reasons other people have stated. It's entirely combat centric, which is fine for people that like that, but it's turned the game into a combat based grind-fest. Even the raids, despite being reasonably more complex and interactive, are still essentially a gear grind.
Blizzard have also systematically removed all the social features that make an MMO an MMO. The community in WoW is terrible for a reason. I think the only social feature left in the game to encourage cooperation is the guild system. Even grouping now is entirely automated with no communication required at all.
There's also the issue of the game's effect on the MMO industry. No investor will risk putting money into anything that isn't exactly like WoW so the rest of us are stuck with only playing dated games that are aging badly... yet ironically due to the way the MMO industry works this is also the worst investment to make since the WoW players aren't going to leave WoW for more of the same.
I don't hate it, I just hate what Blizzard (inadvertantly) did to the industry.
I don't hate WoW, and I still play it occasionally, but I hold a rather large grudge against it for many of the reasons other people have stated. It's entirely combat centric, which is fine for people that like that, but it's turned the game into a combat based grind-fest. Even the raids, despite being reasonably more complex and interactive, are still essentially a gear grind.
Blizzard have also systematically removed all the social features that make an MMO an MMO. The community in WoW is terrible for a reason. I think the only social feature left in the game to encourage cooperation is the guild system. Even grouping now is entirely automated with no communication required at all.
There's also the issue of the game's effect on the MMO industry. No investor will risk putting money into anything that isn't exactly like WoW so the rest of us are stuck with only playing dated games that are aging badly... yet ironically due to the way the MMO industry works this is also the worst investment to make since the WoW players aren't going to leave WoW for more of the same.
I don't hate it, I just hate what Blizzard (inadvertantly) did to the industry.
You make a wicked point, and i pleased that even a WOW player has realised this. 1 down 10 million to go.
It's hillarious, I got moderated because I said it's ignorant to pretend WoW combat is turn based...
Well, I'll say it again... someone pretending WoW combat is turn based doesn't know what turn based combat means.
Maybe the moderators themself should check out what turn based means.
EDIT: for info, turn based combat is made so that one player can only do a specific amount of action, and then he has to wait until his opponent has done his own share of action before he can do anything again. Neither WoW nor any mainstream MMORPG is based on that kind of combat system, all are real time based.
That's exactly what WoW does. Skills are qued after you press the button, until your micro-turn comes up, it happens all the time. The game consists in micro-turns and is made to where the player doesn't see that the game is turn based combat, when in reality it is. The most noticible class in the game to see this on, is a Warrior tank.
If you can't see it then you're the one who's ignorant to the fact that it is, not the other way around. Like someone said earlier, the combat logs read like a D&D transcription and that's not by accident.
It's hilarious that some people seem to try to belittle people and try to act superiour, when they really have absolutely no understanding of how the underlying systems work.
Now don't take me wrong, I have friends and really good friends that play it, so it's not aimed a everyone. The problem comes with those players that believe that WoW is the core of all the MMO's, even those made before it, and therefore everything is a copy from WoW, they want every new MMO to have WoW features, and compare every game to WoW.
The close mindendness of these players is what aggravates me and mostly a lot of other players, when I go to a new MMO forums, to read about it's features, what it's planning to do, the last thing I want to read is some posters asking, demanding and whining (to not use a stronger term) about how it does not compare/rival/equal/feel like WoW.
Diverse mechanics, some of which no other game has. (WotLK phasing technology anyone?)
WoW is probably one of the ONLY MMOs on the market to not have a single unique feature, and to not have innovated ANYTHING. Every game feature in WoW can be traced back to a game that came out 3-4 years before it. They take those, and release a simple dumbed down version.
Great free combat - Have to keep moving to stay alive, much like many games should be IMO.
This is a standard for most MMOs.
Crafting system. Not the best by any means, although still pretty good none the less.
Crafting systems have been in just about every MMORPG since 2001, and WoW's is one of the most shallow.
Best PvE of any game, or at the very least, can be argued to be one of the best.
Very VERY incorrect here. As WoW is basically a toned down version of EverQuest, one can argue that EverQuest, or even Vanguard, has MUCH better PvE. In fact, the world, quests, and group dynamics in Vanguard beat WoW in just about every way. Also, instancing is a lazy crutch WoW relies on, instead of good game design.
Great PvP combat with more balance than most games will offer. I realize their are other "PvP" games that do better but seeing as how they usually fail in terms of PvE content while WoW offers both, I will argue that WoW's PvP is still very good. Also offers many different ways to PvP which is nice.
Dark Age of Camelot has great PvP combat. Darkfall does. WoW... eh.. WoW's PvP has very little thought put into it. It's a tacked on mini game to help you forget you are endlessly grinding for gear that means nothing.
Talent specialization, and if I remember correct it was the first (or one of the first) games to introduce such a system that is now deemed mandatory in most games.
Most MMORPGs before WoW had talent specs. Again, Dark Age of Camelot. You could take a class, and play it at least 5 different ways depending on your spec. Add in the fact that you had about a grand total of 36ish classes, there was a TON of diversity.
A vast array of spells with the ability to change your role with most classes.
MMORPG standard since 1999
So many people hate WoW for 2 reasons.
1. It single handedly broke the MMORPG industry, strangled innovation, strangled the community virtual world feel, and left us with a 5 year rut of very few real MMORPGs coming out. (WoW did not do this intentionally, but it can all be traced back to WoW)
2. It is insanely successful despite having very little reason to be, because it didn't do anything new, other than have a massive advertisement campaign, and be very very very very VERY simple.
I don't hate WoW, and I still play it occasionally, but I hold a rather large grudge against it for many of the reasons other people have stated. It's entirely combat centric, which is fine for people that like that, but it's turned the game into a combat based grind-fest. Even the raids, despite being reasonably more complex and interactive, are still essentially a gear grind.
Blizzard have also systematically removed all the social features that make an MMO an MMO. The community in WoW is terrible for a reason. I think the only social feature left in the game to encourage cooperation is the guild system. Even grouping now is entirely automated with no communication required at all.
There's also the issue of the game's effect on the MMO industry. No investor will risk putting money into anything that isn't exactly like WoW so the rest of us are stuck with only playing dated games that are aging badly... yet ironically due to the way the MMO industry works this is also the worst investment to make since the WoW players aren't going to leave WoW for more of the same.
I don't hate it, I just hate what Blizzard (inadvertantly) did to the industry.
Your last line says it all.
A lot of people who 'hate' WoW dont really hate the game itself, but rather what it did to the rest of the genre. There are a lot of people who are tired of WoW and want something new, but pretty much everything 'new' is borrowing heavily from WoW (and in some cases cloning the game itself). Its kinda like trading in your red 2009 Ford Tarus for a blue 2009 Ford Tarus - its the same damn car just in a different color with maybe more/less miles on it.
What I can say I hate about WoW are the rabid players who attack others in defense of the game, even when the person isnt attacking the game. Its like when someone states the game is 'simple' or 'too easy' for thier tastes. You automatically get people who attack the poster with 'You havent done (insert latest raid encounter 25man hardmode here) because if you did you wouldnt be saying that so stfu'. Sadly what they cant seem to grasp is maybe that player isnt talking about one minor piece of endgame content, but maybe that the entire game feels that way to them (because lets face it, a movie can have the best ending EVER yet whats the point if you are bored throughout the whole first 90 minutes? That last 10-20 minutes isnt going to make up for the fact that you fell asleep or ended up in a boredom induced coma due to the first 90 minutes being 'meh').
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Also, a lot of people see WoW players as the distillation of every negative gamer stereotype there is. Not just here but out in the wider world and in other online communities.
It's kind of striking actually - you can say "I play MMO X" and they're like "Oh, that's cool". Like you said, "I play Sim City" or "I play Halo". If you say, "I play WoW" and that's all they know about you they assume you either play 25 hours a day or are unskilled, lazy, unable to follow even the simplest directions, yet still expect to play at the same level as the people who do play 25 hours a day. It's like the old "Evercrack" from back in the day, time a hundred because WoW is immensely more popular. Well, maybe not, nobody ever accused EQ players of being unskilled at EQ.. but you get the idea.
It's an image problem WoW has had for years now, and has only gotten worse as time has gone by, at least from what I have observed.
Also, fanboys. Everyone hates fanboys. WoW, being the most popular MMO, has the most fanboys to stir up flame wars and such. WoW fanboys are kind of like Apple fanboys - there's a lot of them so it's easy for them to all hang out together and not realize how bad they make whatever they idolize look until they've already turned off a lot of people, if they ever made any such realization at all.
I "dislike WoW strongly" for reeling me in long ago with it's "epic-ness", digesting me once BC came, and then spitting me out post-WotlK when nothing in that game seemd fun anymore.
The worst part being that everything I play now I compare to WoW... And It just seems inferior in some way.
I still haven't been able to play a new game since quitting that curse.
I "dislike WoW strongly" for reeling me in long ago with it's "epic-ness", digesting me once BC came, and then spitting me out post-WotlK when nothing in that game seemd fun anymore.
The worst part being that everything I play now I compare to WoW... And It just seems inferior in some way.
I still haven't been able to play a new game since quitting that curse.
See, I had that feeling after just one day of playing WoW, because it felt EXACTLY the same as EverQuest, but simpler that even some of the joys I got out of EQ (adventuring with random people) were not there. So WoW was never fun for me.
It is not like a dislike WOW for the game itself. To be honest, the reason I hate WOW is the players. I can't stand the community in the game. The immature people who play the game give me a bad experience that I didn't want to tolerate or pay for. So I had to find a comparable game with a better community.
I think there is a bit of a 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' syndrome when it comes to WoW. It is an obvious target of hatred because it dominates the genre but if you actually break the game down it does a lot things very well. If WoW had just 200k subscriptions it would be no more hated than any other game.
After all, apart from great animations, responsive controls, vast amounts of content, a flexible UI and a broad range of options for both PvE and PvP what has WoW ever done for it's players?
Vast amount of content? Last time I seen a vast amount of content was during TBC WotLK has no content because it's too easy and you can run through it in a matter of weeks.
My reason for hating WoW no challenge too easy in every aspect of the game (leveling, PvP, Raiding etc etc). I honestly don't feel like playing easy games if i did I would go play a kids game or something. I don't hate them for their success I hate them for dumbing down the game to the point a 5 year old could play.
A vast array of spells with the ability to change your role with most classes.
MMORPG standard since 1999
Actually, I'd say it's been an RPG standard since...well the beginning of RPGs.
I'd certainly say MUDS and CRPGs had them long before 1999.
So let's not argue about who was first, that'll get nowhere, not that I think the OP was making a claim as to being the first, just that WOW did it well . Address quality then maybe you'll have something.
I think there is a bit of a 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' syndrome when it comes to WoW. It is an obvious target of hatred because it dominates the genre but if you actually break the game down it does a lot things very well. If WoW had just 200k subscriptions it would be no more hated than any other game.
After all, apart from great animations, responsive controls, vast amounts of content, a flexible UI and a broad range of options for both PvE and PvP what has WoW ever done for it's players?
Vast amount of content? Last time I seen a vast amount of content was during TBC WotLK has no content because it's too easy and you can run through it in a matter of weeks.
My reason for hating WoW no challenge too easy in every aspect of the game (leveling, PvP, Raiding etc etc). I honestly don't feel like playing easy games if i did I would go play a kids game or something. I don't hate them for their success I hate them for dumbing down the game to the point a 5 year old could play.
For all the devs that Blizzard has, they produce very VERY little content compared to what they should be producing. I've seen teams of 30 produce more than them.
Also, comparing Blizzard to the Romans... eh, the Romans actually innovated. Blizzard did not.
Some people hate WoW because it brought non-MMO gamers into the genre.
Some people hate WoW because it's themepark and they prefer sandbox.
Some people hate WoW because it promotes the item-ladder "phat lewt" mentality.
Some people hate WoW because it caters to casual gamers.
Some people hate WoW because it's solo-friendly and they prefer grouping.
Some people hate WoW because they can't grief in it.
Some people hate WoW because of its graphical style.
Some people hate WoW because they used to love WoW and it's changed.
Some people hate WoW because other people hate WoW.
Some people have never played WoW but hate it because of what others say about it.
Some people just hate WoW because it's the pretty girl at school who wouldn't date 'em.
Trying to understand why people hate stuff; best to leave that to people with psych degrees. I'm cool with people who don't like WoW because it doesn't suit their preferences but I find it best to simply ignore any eejit who spews unstructured hate.
HAHAHA, That is just hilarious! Good response too!
Diverse mechanics, some of which no other game has. (WotLK phasing technology anyone?)
Great free combat - Have to keep moving to stay alive, much like many games should be IMO.
Crafting system. Not the best by any means, although still pretty good none the less.
Best PvE of any game, or at the very least, can be argued to be one of the best.
Great PvP combat with more balance than most games will offer. I realize their are other "PvP" games that do better but seeing as how they usually fail in terms of PvE content while WoW offers both, I will argue that WoW's PvP is still very good. Also offers many different ways to PvP which is nice.
Talent specialization, and if I remember correct it was the first (or one of the first) games to introduce such a system that is now deemed mandatory in most games.
A vast array of spells with the ability to change your role with most classes.
I understand liking something but how do people convince themselves about stuff like this...
Comments
Posted by The_Korrigan on 4/04/10 at 5:28:55 PM
If you suggest one can just mash random buttons and kill the Lich King, then you are either just trolling, or just trying to mindlessly bash down the game without any solid basis just out of hatred.
It's actually quite funny, I regularly read stuff like that, and every single time, the person posting it actually doesn't play the game at all or never did the raid encounters he's critisizing. But you clearly have no idea of what that fight is about, or even several other fights in Icecrown Citadel. Dumb players who only mash random buttons will never kill those bosses.
But I guess that just in "real" life, critic is easy for those who don't do anything... and it makes you feel special ;-)
+1 If only people who had actually played were allowed to post, this thread would probably be like 3 pages long if that.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
i plaued wow for a long time and really came to hate it.simply because i played a paladin and reallly got tired of not being able to go on raids and get picks.plates drops were for war and cloth were for priest or mages.
+ 2
This would be a great rule if it would also be applied to all the other gamespecific MMO threads, that people could only post if they'd actually played for some time the MMO that's being discussed.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i wonder what you guys that believe a game should be more than button mashing are doing outside the box of the screen.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
Pft good luck with that pipedream. Not gonna happen. MMO designers want the hardcores, the casuals, the pvpers and the pvers. Why only market to one niche when you can get more people and make more money?
Hows that 10% buff working out for you?
Do you even know what I'm talking about or are you still grinding heroics for your welfare T9?
He's still right. Unless you've played WoW and done Ice Crown Citadel and fought the Lich King your just speaking out of your ass and looking like a total ignorant fool.
It really doesnt effect me at all since I got my 10man LK kill before March 2nd when the 5% hit.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
Because the company are money grabbing dicks. And a high percentage of the players in WOW dont actually know what a MMORPG is. The just play WOW. They think its the only game of its genre. Ever person that plays seems to be brainwashed by the game.
I don't hate WoW, and I still play it occasionally, but I hold a rather large grudge against it for many of the reasons other people have stated. It's entirely combat centric, which is fine for people that like that, but it's turned the game into a combat based grind-fest. Even the raids, despite being reasonably more complex and interactive, are still essentially a gear grind.
Blizzard have also systematically removed all the social features that make an MMO an MMO. The community in WoW is terrible for a reason. I think the only social feature left in the game to encourage cooperation is the guild system. Even grouping now is entirely automated with no communication required at all.
There's also the issue of the game's effect on the MMO industry. No investor will risk putting money into anything that isn't exactly like WoW so the rest of us are stuck with only playing dated games that are aging badly... yet ironically due to the way the MMO industry works this is also the worst investment to make since the WoW players aren't going to leave WoW for more of the same.
I don't hate it, I just hate what Blizzard (inadvertantly) did to the industry.
That's exactly what WoW does. Skills are qued after you press the button, until your micro-turn comes up, it happens all the time. The game consists in micro-turns and is made to where the player doesn't see that the game is turn based combat, when in reality it is. The most noticible class in the game to see this on, is a Warrior tank.
If you can't see it then you're the one who's ignorant to the fact that it is, not the other way around. Like someone said earlier, the combat logs read like a D&D transcription and that's not by accident.
It's hilarious that some people seem to try to belittle people and try to act superiour, when they really have absolutely no understanding of how the underlying systems work.
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
I don't hate WoW, I hate some of it's players.
Now don't take me wrong, I have friends and really good friends that play it, so it's not aimed a everyone. The problem comes with those players that believe that WoW is the core of all the MMO's, even those made before it, and therefore everything is a copy from WoW, they want every new MMO to have WoW features, and compare every game to WoW.
The close mindendness of these players is what aggravates me and mostly a lot of other players, when I go to a new MMO forums, to read about it's features, what it's planning to do, the last thing I want to read is some posters asking, demanding and whining (to not use a stronger term) about how it does not compare/rival/equal/feel like WoW.
So many people hate WoW for 2 reasons.
1. It single handedly broke the MMORPG industry, strangled innovation, strangled the community virtual world feel, and left us with a 5 year rut of very few real MMORPGs coming out. (WoW did not do this intentionally, but it can all be traced back to WoW)
2. It is insanely successful despite having very little reason to be, because it didn't do anything new, other than have a massive advertisement campaign, and be very very very very VERY simple.
Your last line says it all.
A lot of people who 'hate' WoW dont really hate the game itself, but rather what it did to the rest of the genre. There are a lot of people who are tired of WoW and want something new, but pretty much everything 'new' is borrowing heavily from WoW (and in some cases cloning the game itself). Its kinda like trading in your red 2009 Ford Tarus for a blue 2009 Ford Tarus - its the same damn car just in a different color with maybe more/less miles on it.
What I can say I hate about WoW are the rabid players who attack others in defense of the game, even when the person isnt attacking the game. Its like when someone states the game is 'simple' or 'too easy' for thier tastes. You automatically get people who attack the poster with 'You havent done (insert latest raid encounter 25man hardmode here) because if you did you wouldnt be saying that so stfu'. Sadly what they cant seem to grasp is maybe that player isnt talking about one minor piece of endgame content, but maybe that the entire game feels that way to them (because lets face it, a movie can have the best ending EVER yet whats the point if you are bored throughout the whole first 90 minutes? That last 10-20 minutes isnt going to make up for the fact that you fell asleep or ended up in a boredom induced coma due to the first 90 minutes being 'meh').
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Also, a lot of people see WoW players as the distillation of every negative gamer stereotype there is. Not just here but out in the wider world and in other online communities.
It's kind of striking actually - you can say "I play MMO X" and they're like "Oh, that's cool". Like you said, "I play Sim City" or "I play Halo". If you say, "I play WoW" and that's all they know about you they assume you either play 25 hours a day or are unskilled, lazy, unable to follow even the simplest directions, yet still expect to play at the same level as the people who do play 25 hours a day. It's like the old "Evercrack" from back in the day, time a hundred because WoW is immensely more popular. Well, maybe not, nobody ever accused EQ players of being unskilled at EQ.. but you get the idea.
It's an image problem WoW has had for years now, and has only gotten worse as time has gone by, at least from what I have observed.
Also, fanboys. Everyone hates fanboys. WoW, being the most popular MMO, has the most fanboys to stir up flame wars and such. WoW fanboys are kind of like Apple fanboys - there's a lot of them so it's easy for them to all hang out together and not realize how bad they make whatever they idolize look until they've already turned off a lot of people, if they ever made any such realization at all.
I "dislike WoW strongly" for reeling me in long ago with it's "epic-ness", digesting me once BC came, and then spitting me out post-WotlK when nothing in that game seemd fun anymore.
The worst part being that everything I play now I compare to WoW... And It just seems inferior in some way.
I still haven't been able to play a new game since quitting that curse.
See, I had that feeling after just one day of playing WoW, because it felt EXACTLY the same as EverQuest, but simpler that even some of the joys I got out of EQ (adventuring with random people) were not there. So WoW was never fun for me.
It is not like a dislike WOW for the game itself. To be honest, the reason I hate WOW is the players. I can't stand the community in the game. The immature people who play the game give me a bad experience that I didn't want to tolerate or pay for. So I had to find a comparable game with a better community.
www.ryzom.com
Vast amount of content? Last time I seen a vast amount of content was during TBC WotLK has no content because it's too easy and you can run through it in a matter of weeks.
My reason for hating WoW no challenge too easy in every aspect of the game (leveling, PvP, Raiding etc etc). I honestly don't feel like playing easy games if i did I would go play a kids game or something. I don't hate them for their success I hate them for dumbing down the game to the point a 5 year old could play.
Actually, I'd say it's been an RPG standard since...well the beginning of RPGs.
I'd certainly say MUDS and CRPGs had them long before 1999.
So let's not argue about who was first, that'll get nowhere, not that I think the OP was making a claim as to being the first, just that WOW did it well . Address quality then maybe you'll have something.
For all the devs that Blizzard has, they produce very VERY little content compared to what they should be producing. I've seen teams of 30 produce more than them.
Also, comparing Blizzard to the Romans... eh, the Romans actually innovated. Blizzard did not.
HAHAHA, That is just hilarious! Good response too!
I understand liking something but how do people convince themselves about stuff like this...
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
(Insert generic blind hateful comment here) Also, specialization should be an option, not a requirement. Play EVE, kiddies!