I really hope they didn't eliminate world spawn bosses from FFXIV. That was my favorite part of XI. With salvage and other instanced things, you never really "had" to camp those NMs, you chose to. If they don't have any world spawn bosses, I won't have the choice to ignore instances and do what I love to do, I'll be forced into your game immersion breaking instances. See how that isn't the way to go?
Leave the world bosses in and have instances too = giving players a choice. Taking world bosses out would be like me coming on here saying for them to take all instances out and make it all world bosses.
Yup, but they can make things better too. The implementation first time was reaaally short sighted, one of the "sounds good on paper, doesn't work in reality" type things.
How they designed the HNM's in WoTG is much better approach IMO. I think not so many people would be against world spawns were they like that from the start, not after 6 years. If SE keeps doing the same thing in XIV they're doing today in XI, world bosses will be back and it will be good.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
It always boggled my mind why world boss pops were at the same location, and timer cycle intervals. Why not have them pop at random times in random spots around level appropriate areas to prevent bots camping and such.
I really hope they didn't eliminate world spawn bosses from FFXIV. That was my favorite part of XI. With salvage and other instanced things, you never really "had" to camp those NMs, you chose to. If they don't have any world spawn bosses, I won't have the choice to ignore instances and do what I love to do, I'll be forced into your game immersion breaking instances. See how that isn't the way to go?
Leave the world bosses in and have instances too = giving players a choice. Taking world bosses out would be like me coming on here saying for them to take all instances out and make it all world bosses.
Yup, but they can make things better too. The implementation first time was reaaally short sighted, one of the "sounds good on paper, doesn't work in reality" type things.
How they designed the HNM's in WoTG is much better approach IMO. I think not so many people would be against world spawns were they like that from the start, not after 6 years. If SE keeps doing the same thing in XIV they're doing today in XI, world bosses will be back and it will be good.
I sort of agree. You just have to realize that not everyone feels the same way as you, and more options are not a bad thing. Keep a few old style HNMs, put in a few new style HNMs, have a few instances. Variety is the spice of life, and the more variety you have, the more players that you will please.
It always boggled my mind why world boss pops were at the same location, and timer cycle intervals. Why not have them pop at random times in random spots around level appropriate areas to prevent bots camping and such.
There was no bots nor camping at the time. The devs just didn't see it coming. Also that there were more and more high level characters around, so while it worked fine at first, when suddenly 60% of your population has a level 75 character things kinda turned around.
They did experiment on these kind of things later though. First the spawn times were changed from 3 hours to like, 72 hours. Then the mobs popped in different areas at random times and the only way to pull them was to use a specific item that, afaik, prevented botting.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
It always boggled my mind why world boss pops were at the same location, and timer cycle intervals. Why not have them pop at random times in random spots around level appropriate areas to prevent bots camping and such.
This I will definitely agree on. Bot camping got way out of hand, a couple LSs on my server even had payed in excess of 2 thousand dollars for their guild bot. Perhaps take out the claim system on the HNMs and let people share them, or do like you said and have them spawn in random areas, or like EQ did and have them spawn at the end of difficult dungeons.
There is a major problem with MMO comparisons that kind of rears its head here: Which WoW / FXI are you talking about? They both migrated their gameplay focus for each expansion. I would not, by any stretch of human imagination, consider the Burning Crusade raid content (or even heroic dungeons) easy at release. They were eventually nerfed over the expansion's year-and-a-half life cycle but it wasn't until only a month or two remained before the next expansion that any sizable portion of the populace could do Sunwell. Conversely the Frozen Throne expansion was basically a kiddy romp version of raiding and dungeon crawling compared to its BC precursor.
So, if you say you want something more challenging and time consuming than Frozen Throne then I would have to agree, I think the expansion dismayed the majority of WoW's long-term playerbase. Other than some nifty outdoor zones that utilized flying and decent quests therein, the expansion offered virtually nothing challenging or even partially compelling.
If, however, you say you want something more time consuming and difficult than Burning Crusade was then I just have to laugh at what is a patently ridiculous statement and take complete security in the fact that the concept is not only almost impossible to achieve, but simply not the goal of most sane developers. I don't see many people deliberately going that direction again. It had some of the hardest raid content I've ever seen and given my experience that's saying a lot.
I'm sure FXIV will aim for something in between, but I'm also sure most MMO's probably aim for the same goal and end up with one or the other. What one is aiming at isn't always what one hits.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
Having HNM's random spawn in different zones won't do a thing to deter bots. Hell, look at Dark Ixion or Sandworm in XI, it's not claim botted in the same sense of the word but it's still widescan botted. All this will do is create a larger time sink. Having to sit around waiting for 5 hours is not efficient. I'm speaking as someone that did the camping thing for 5 years, hardcore 24/7. I've just honestly had enough of it.
At the time, i absolutely loved competing for world spawns. I'll be honest, half the time we didn't even need drops, we just wanted to keep competing LS's from claiming. It became the best way to make money and it unfortunately cockblocked a lot of people from participating in everything the game had to offer. This is what i'd like to avoid in XIV.
Having HNM's random spawn in different zones won't do a thing to deter bots. Hell, look at Dark Ixion or Sandworm in XI, it's not claim botted in the same sense of the word but it's still widescan botted. All this will do is create a larger time sink. Having to sit around waiting for 5 hours is not efficient. I'm speaking as someone that did the camping thing for 5 years, hardcore 24/7. I've just honestly had enough of it.
At the time, i absolutely loved competing for world spawns. I'll be honest, half the time we didn't even need drops, we just wanted to keep competing LS's from claiming. It became the best way to make money and it unfortunately cockblocked a lot of people from participating in everything the game had to offer. This is what i'd like to avoid in XIV.
So you're bored of a certain aspect of MMOs, one that you absolutely loved for 5 years, and so you think that aspect shouldn't be present in newer games because you are bored of it? Logical.
No not at all, actually just reiterating how unfair XI's endgame system was from first hand knowledge. I'm confident we won't have to go through that again in XIV and i'm excited at the possibilities SE may offer.
No not at all, actually just reiterating how unfair XI's endgame system was from first hand knowledge. I'm confident we won't have to go through that again in XIV and i'm excited at the possibilities SE may offer.
Yea I am also excited at the possibilities that SE may offer, I just hope they don't throw everyone into their own instance and call it a day ala WoW. I absolutely hate what instancing has done to MMORPGs and hope that SE offers alternatives for us that don't like them, but also offers them to those who want to see them in the game.
I would like them to take some of the idea's of WoW lately, like an auto Dungeon group finder for casual players, yeah you get some jerks randomly but it is a great idea over having to play to guild BS/or taking 2 hours finding people to run a 20 minute dungeon.
I don't care about hard core or whatever stupidity people talk about, bottom line is the game fun to play and worth the monthly fee is all that really matters.
am against the dungeon finder, not as a feature on its own - sure its great to just line up for some action, but way against the thought that MMOs is instance grinders, doing the same instance a mio times is bad game design....boring, even if you can try make it fun by see how fast or how clean or try do it in a slightly diffrent order. whatever.
aint against some grinding, but when it is what the game have become....well its just a bad game. and create more elitist attitude, which yes ruin the game as a social game. MMOs is terrible games if they dont understand to make it push for social activity.
if you dont make your game into a treadmill you will get ppl much faster, ofc with the few unlucky times.....= no need for this kind of lazyness. but be the treat now and then.
MMOs shouldnt try to be full time action games...more adventure, less clear instances with the uberness lewt and "kill 10 rats" please :P
WoW is for everyone, even these noisy kids playing outisde my window right now. You don't need any special skills, special intelligence or special intrests to be a part of it and that is and has always been a great great great part of it. Except for players craving for a challenge.
If SE are aiming for profit, I would be surprised if they don't make it easier to get into. Personally I believe they will stay true to FFXI fans too in some aspects, or else if they fail on "for everyone" they'll also loose ex FFXI players.
This is the best signature ever. Well, it is really up to you to decide. :x
I didn't play the FFXI however right now XIV looks to be my only real hope for a more challenging MMO on the horizon so I'll be giving it a go for sure.
I'm looking for a game where players can stand out, even though I'm not likely to ever be one who becomes legendary.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Meh, people tell me WoW isn't hard, I ask for an ICC 25m Heroic, I haven't had someone give me their armory yet...
...now, it'll probably be inbetween the two.
WoW is definitely hard in the sense of Lich King 25 Heroic being a tough encounter. But FFXI players know that 1 encounter in game does not make the game "difficult" overall. There are much more difficult encounters in FFXI than LK 25 H btw, but what FFXI players enjoyed were the smaller challenges on the way to that final boss encounter. Genkais, AF armor quests, Sky/Sea access are all very tough things to accomplish and there are many more on the way to the final encounters.
MMORPGs are a journey and in WoW, that journey is ridiculously easy and has no real point but to get to the end. In FFXI, and hopefully FFXIV, the focus is on the journey and that is where you will find your difficulty.
Comments
Yup, but they can make things better too. The implementation first time was reaaally short sighted, one of the "sounds good on paper, doesn't work in reality" type things.
How they designed the HNM's in WoTG is much better approach IMO. I think not so many people would be against world spawns were they like that from the start, not after 6 years. If SE keeps doing the same thing in XIV they're doing today in XI, world bosses will be back and it will be good.
It always boggled my mind why world boss pops were at the same location, and timer cycle intervals. Why not have them pop at random times in random spots around level appropriate areas to prevent bots camping and such.
I sort of agree. You just have to realize that not everyone feels the same way as you, and more options are not a bad thing. Keep a few old style HNMs, put in a few new style HNMs, have a few instances. Variety is the spice of life, and the more variety you have, the more players that you will please.
There was no bots nor camping at the time. The devs just didn't see it coming. Also that there were more and more high level characters around, so while it worked fine at first, when suddenly 60% of your population has a level 75 character things kinda turned around.
They did experiment on these kind of things later though. First the spawn times were changed from 3 hours to like, 72 hours. Then the mobs popped in different areas at random times and the only way to pull them was to use a specific item that, afaik, prevented botting.
This I will definitely agree on. Bot camping got way out of hand, a couple LSs on my server even had payed in excess of 2 thousand dollars for their guild bot. Perhaps take out the claim system on the HNMs and let people share them, or do like you said and have them spawn in random areas, or like EQ did and have them spawn at the end of difficult dungeons.
There is a major problem with MMO comparisons that kind of rears its head here: Which WoW / FXI are you talking about? They both migrated their gameplay focus for each expansion. I would not, by any stretch of human imagination, consider the Burning Crusade raid content (or even heroic dungeons) easy at release. They were eventually nerfed over the expansion's year-and-a-half life cycle but it wasn't until only a month or two remained before the next expansion that any sizable portion of the populace could do Sunwell. Conversely the Frozen Throne expansion was basically a kiddy romp version of raiding and dungeon crawling compared to its BC precursor.
So, if you say you want something more challenging and time consuming than Frozen Throne then I would have to agree, I think the expansion dismayed the majority of WoW's long-term playerbase. Other than some nifty outdoor zones that utilized flying and decent quests therein, the expansion offered virtually nothing challenging or even partially compelling.
If, however, you say you want something more time consuming and difficult than Burning Crusade was then I just have to laugh at what is a patently ridiculous statement and take complete security in the fact that the concept is not only almost impossible to achieve, but simply not the goal of most sane developers. I don't see many people deliberately going that direction again. It had some of the hardest raid content I've ever seen and given my experience that's saying a lot.
I'm sure FXIV will aim for something in between, but I'm also sure most MMO's probably aim for the same goal and end up with one or the other. What one is aiming at isn't always what one hits.
The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.
Having HNM's random spawn in different zones won't do a thing to deter bots. Hell, look at Dark Ixion or Sandworm in XI, it's not claim botted in the same sense of the word but it's still widescan botted. All this will do is create a larger time sink. Having to sit around waiting for 5 hours is not efficient. I'm speaking as someone that did the camping thing for 5 years, hardcore 24/7. I've just honestly had enough of it.
At the time, i absolutely loved competing for world spawns. I'll be honest, half the time we didn't even need drops, we just wanted to keep competing LS's from claiming. It became the best way to make money and it unfortunately cockblocked a lot of people from participating in everything the game had to offer. This is what i'd like to avoid in XIV.
So you're bored of a certain aspect of MMOs, one that you absolutely loved for 5 years, and so you think that aspect shouldn't be present in newer games because you are bored of it? Logical.
No not at all, actually just reiterating how unfair XI's endgame system was from first hand knowledge. I'm confident we won't have to go through that again in XIV and i'm excited at the possibilities SE may offer.
Yea I am also excited at the possibilities that SE may offer, I just hope they don't throw everyone into their own instance and call it a day ala WoW. I absolutely hate what instancing has done to MMORPGs and hope that SE offers alternatives for us that don't like them, but also offers them to those who want to see them in the game.
am against the dungeon finder, not as a feature on its own - sure its great to just line up for some action, but way against the thought that MMOs is instance grinders, doing the same instance a mio times is bad game design....boring, even if you can try make it fun by see how fast or how clean or try do it in a slightly diffrent order. whatever.
aint against some grinding, but when it is what the game have become....well its just a bad game. and create more elitist attitude, which yes ruin the game as a social game. MMOs is terrible games if they dont understand to make it push for social activity.
if you dont make your game into a treadmill you will get ppl much faster, ofc with the few unlucky times.....= no need for this kind of lazyness. but be the treat now and then.
MMOs shouldnt try to be full time action games...more adventure, less clear instances with the uberness lewt and "kill 10 rats" please :P
WoW is for everyone, even these noisy kids playing outisde my window right now. You don't need any special skills, special intelligence or special intrests to be a part of it and that is and has always been a great great great part of it. Except for players craving for a challenge.
If SE are aiming for profit, I would be surprised if they don't make it easier to get into. Personally I believe they will stay true to FFXI fans too in some aspects, or else if they fail on "for everyone" they'll also loose ex FFXI players.
This is the best signature ever. Well, it is really up to you to decide. :x
I didn't play the FFXI however right now XIV looks to be my only real hope for a more challenging MMO on the horizon so I'll be giving it a go for sure.
I'm looking for a game where players can stand out, even though I'm not likely to ever be one who becomes legendary.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Meh, people tell me WoW isn't hard, I ask for an ICC 25m Heroic, I haven't had someone give me their armory yet...
...now, it'll probably be inbetween the two.
"I went to the store to buy a candle holder. They were out, so I bought a cake." -Mitch Hedberg
WoW is definitely hard in the sense of Lich King 25 Heroic being a tough encounter. But FFXI players know that 1 encounter in game does not make the game "difficult" overall. There are much more difficult encounters in FFXI than LK 25 H btw, but what FFXI players enjoyed were the smaller challenges on the way to that final boss encounter. Genkais, AF armor quests, Sky/Sea access are all very tough things to accomplish and there are many more on the way to the final encounters.
MMORPGs are a journey and in WoW, that journey is ridiculously easy and has no real point but to get to the end. In FFXI, and hopefully FFXIV, the focus is on the journey and that is where you will find your difficulty.