Well, it's obvious that this thread is all about opinion; the problem is that opinions are biased, F2P players say that P2P offer no more and are not better that F2P in any way, while P2P players, state that f2P is a lie, and those are worthless games that will get your money in other ways.
Personally, I've played both P2P and F2P, and I find no actual difference, they are both about clicking your target, spamming skills/spells and looting, you just do more or less depending on the game. It's all the same, I've never find any P2P game that has actually captured me in a way, as to pay for more than two months, just as I stop playing most F2P games after I got bored of their monotonous ways 2 months later.
A Sub game with more value than a F2P game? Every sub game ever. (Defining F2P as item shop games, games like Guild Wars must be looked at individually.)
and just for the sake of the thread, here are a few more:
(4) EverQuest II
(5) Final Fantasy XI
(6) World of Warcraft
Each of the listed titles offer FAR more in terms of overall quality and playability than any F2P I have ever played, the only exception to that being DDO.
Gameplay wise there is fundamentally no difference between Free to Play and most Pay to Play games. You are still sitting on your rear, passively engaged while your character auto swings whatever ability you have chosen to use.
This is where the OP is correct. However he ceases to be correct after this point.
Free to Play and Pay to Play games differ in how much of that experience they offer. Free to Play models are built to hold your gameplay back in the hopes of coaxing you out of some money so your gameplay experience can improve.
Free to Play and Pay to Play games differ in care given to various playstyles. Classes in many free to play games are severely unbalanced. Player vs Player is merely a method to suck your wallet dry faster.
On a pay to play game you have already paid. Theres no incentive to make PvP suck out your lifeblood, and more incentive to balance things out a bit in order to retain a wider range of interested subscribers.
A free to play game appeals to your wallet, theres no other gambit being made. The goal of a pay to play game is to appeal to your sense of fun.
I can only think of one, and that's Eve.Your opinion which you are entitled too.
Every other sub game plays exactly the same as a F2P. Once again your opinion.
Sub games can be a little less grindy, but I don't think that really offers you anything more in terms of gameplay. Thats great but yet another opinion.
So another opinion thread...seems to be alot of these lately...
But in answer to your question Name 3 subscription games that offer MORE quality than F2P; WoW, AoC and EQ2 in my opinion have more quality than F2P games.
yeah, how dare I express my opinion in public.....
I never had a problem with you expressing your opinion, but to say "Every other sub game plays exactly the same as a F2P" which sounds a lot like you are stating a fact not an opinion, hence I answered "Once again your opinion". If I was wrong to think that you were making opinions into facts, then I apologize for inferring that from the infomation provided.
click monster, watch fight, spam some buttons when your health gets low, loot, level, rinse, repeat.....
Wth do you think EVE is?
Here is combat in EVE.
Click location - warp to location - click on target.
open cargo Hold, drag wreck loot to ship. Repeat as needed.
Sounds a lot like the above scenario you gave except for the fact that in eve you do much much less before the "loot, rinse, repeat" part.
I played EVE for about a year, and it has one of the most mind numblingly boring combat systems on planet earth. You literally do nothing except click some buttons and make sure your armor and shields are within an acceptable range and maybe if you are really bored, you change up your "keep at range" numbers just so you can fly around and watch stars move instead of sitting still. That is about it for EVE.
I gotta go with fallen earth. It really is an amazingly realistic game. For example if you get off your horse it doesn't disappear it stays where you leave it, and if you leave it on grass it'll stand there and graze(replenishing it's stamina) till you get back. It's the little touches like these that will have me gladly paying a sub to support it. I haven't seen immersion as good as this since early swg. Definitely not from a ftp even though I like quite a few ftp mmos such as sun online, seal, perfect world etc.
PS I agree with the guy that said Eve is terrible. It's a hugely addicting time sink that will have you thinking the whole time you play that it will get fun someday.. and the next day and the next day. I can't believe it's popular the way it is. But then again I can't believe farmville has 80 million players either.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
If you take out the item shop and base the f2p game on the f2p content then almost any subscription game is better. The problem with almost every f2p game is if you want to get to the end game content you are going to have to shell out some cash, and in most of those games you end up shelling out more money in a month then you would paying the $10-15 monthly fee for a subscription based game.
Now if you had asked name 3 subscription games that are more enjoyable then f2p games I wouldnt be able to offer 3 as I am enjoying the hell out of Allods, Aika, and still have fun when I log in to play a minigame or 3 in Free Realms. The only subscription game I am corrently enjoying is Aion but having 3 characters who are now in that post 30 soul raping level grind, I am starting to lose interest.
How about we flip the topic, and name 3 "F2P" games that offer MORE quality than subscription based games.
I can't, but then I don't delve into F2P too often anymore. I'm sure there are some, and it'd be interesting to see some opinions from that side of the fence.
'Fraid I can't offer more quality, but equal quality is pretty easy. Off the top of my head:
SUN Online - Graphicswise, this game is comparable to AoC
Atlantica Online - There really isn't anything P2P that you can compare this to. I mention this one becuase the turn based combat offers more variation and entertainment than any P2P game I've experienced.
Runes of Magic - Graphics looks cheaper, end-game is nothing like WoW. Feels like cheap f2p game when I play it. Nothing like WoW.
Sun Online - Graphics are nice, but the gameplay isn't smooth at all, theres not too much content and it's just grindy game. I would even pay 30/month for AoC rather than play SUN.
Atlantica Online - Have to say, it's original and nice game.
The trouble with free to play games is the design mentality that goes into their construction keeps them from making a compelling comparison in the first place.
In order to make the "free" to play revenue model functional (entice players into the cash shop) either the better rewards of the game have to be removed which conflicts with the premise of achieving in the first place -OR- undesirable gameplay is thrust on the playerbase that can only be resolved by visiting the cash shop.
Now this is just my opinion, but that is absolutely not the basis for quality gameplay. Maybe free to play games have similar elements in class, movement, graphics, etc as pay to play games, but I don't care. They simply never make it to the stadium in terms of quality competition.
D&D online is often praised for being the best F2P game on the market. Now consider that even a P2P game that failed in the subscription market ranks among the elite of F2P games.
LoTRO, EQ2, and EQ to name but 3 as requested, although I could easily add another dozen without breaking sweat.
The notion that Runes of Magic is exactly the same as World of Warcraft has to be about the dumbest comment on the internet. Granted it is exactly modelled on WoW,and is clearly intended as a cheap rip-off of that game, but last time I played RoM it did not have the crafting, transport, or content of WoW - again, just to name but 3 differences.
The notion that Runes of Magic is exactly the same as World of Warcraft has to be about the dumbest comment on the internet. Granted it is exactly modelled on WoW,and is clearly intended as a cheap rip-off of that game, but last time I played RoM it did not have the crafting, transport, or content of WoW - again, just to name but 3 differences.
I view "quality" to mean first an absence of bugs and glitches, and secondly a high degree of polish and "completeness."
That being said, I'd rank some f2p like RoM above games like WAR, AoC (though haven't played in a while) and many others...
But no game, f2p or otherwise can really match the quality of titles like EvE, WoW, FFXI, Guild Wars, and perhaps a few other subscription games, that have been on the market for a long time, and are amanged by AAA companies.
I'm kind of disappointed Jimmy, you usually make very good posts that I enjoy reading!
I can only think of one, and that's Eve.Your opinon which you are entitled too.
Every other sub game plays exactly the same as a F2P. Once again your opinion.
Sub games can be a little less grindy, but I don't think that really offers you anything more in terms of gameplay. Thats great but yet another opinion.
So another opinion thread...seems to be alot of these lately...
But in answer to your question Name 3 subscription games that offer MORE quality than F2P; WoW, AoC and EQ2 in my opinion have more quality than F2P games.
yeah, how dare I express my opinion in public.....
you should have said my opinion instead of yours... meh why i pay you
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
The thing about F2P that takes away from the quality feel for me is rented crap...like a mount for instance you can rent one for a month for x amount of money, bag space...really i have a backpack but i cant use all the available space all the time. Just 2 small examples of things that cheapen the experience of F2P for me i could go on but there really is no point the way that F2P is implemented feels cheap to me.
These games should be called F2P until you log in There's really no difference between these games and sub games and sometimes you'll even pay more for the "free" games. It's a brilliant strategy by the companies involved - get players into the games and then nickel and dime them to death.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Comments
Well, it's obvious that this thread is all about opinion; the problem is that opinions are biased, F2P players say that P2P offer no more and are not better that F2P in any way, while P2P players, state that f2P is a lie, and those are worthless games that will get your money in other ways.
Personally, I've played both P2P and F2P, and I find no actual difference, they are both about clicking your target, spamming skills/spells and looting, you just do more or less depending on the game. It's all the same, I've never find any P2P game that has actually captured me in a way, as to pay for more than two months, just as I stop playing most F2P games after I got bored of their monotonous ways 2 months later.
Then again, this is just my opinion.
A Sub game with more value than a F2P game? Every sub game ever. (Defining F2P as item shop games, games like Guild Wars must be looked at individually.)
Guys, the question that's honestly being asked here is what MORE do you get from your subscription games as opposed to F2P games.
Non crippled gameplay and roughly everything you see in the item shop of your favorite F2P game.
Well this year i've spent a good deal of time in Eve, Ryzom and Fallen Earth so I would say those.
Is there even a quality sandbox game thats f2p? I played Mabinogi but its not really at the level of any of the p2p games.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
(1) EVE Online
(2) Fallen Earth
(3) Age of Conan
and just for the sake of the thread, here are a few more:
(4) EverQuest II
(5) Final Fantasy XI
(6) World of Warcraft
Each of the listed titles offer FAR more in terms of overall quality and playability than any F2P I have ever played, the only exception to that being DDO.
Gameplay wise there is fundamentally no difference between Free to Play and most Pay to Play games. You are still sitting on your rear, passively engaged while your character auto swings whatever ability you have chosen to use.
This is where the OP is correct. However he ceases to be correct after this point.
Free to Play and Pay to Play games differ in how much of that experience they offer. Free to Play models are built to hold your gameplay back in the hopes of coaxing you out of some money so your gameplay experience can improve.
Free to Play and Pay to Play games differ in care given to various playstyles. Classes in many free to play games are severely unbalanced. Player vs Player is merely a method to suck your wallet dry faster.
On a pay to play game you have already paid. Theres no incentive to make PvP suck out your lifeblood, and more incentive to balance things out a bit in order to retain a wider range of interested subscribers.
A free to play game appeals to your wallet, theres no other gambit being made. The goal of a pay to play game is to appeal to your sense of fun.
Whether either succeed is up to the user.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Wth do you think EVE is?
Here is combat in EVE.
Click location - warp to location - click on target.
Press/ click 1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8, wait........... wait......... reload.
Press/ click 1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8, aproach wreck.......
open cargo Hold, drag wreck loot to ship. Repeat as needed.
Sounds a lot like the above scenario you gave except for the fact that in eve you do much much less before the "loot, rinse, repeat" part.
I played EVE for about a year, and it has one of the most mind numblingly boring combat systems on planet earth. You literally do nothing except click some buttons and make sure your armor and shields are within an acceptable range and maybe if you are really bored, you change up your "keep at range" numbers just so you can fly around and watch stars move instead of sitting still. That is about it for EVE.
I gotta go with fallen earth. It really is an amazingly realistic game. For example if you get off your horse it doesn't disappear it stays where you leave it, and if you leave it on grass it'll stand there and graze(replenishing it's stamina) till you get back. It's the little touches like these that will have me gladly paying a sub to support it. I haven't seen immersion as good as this since early swg. Definitely not from a ftp even though I like quite a few ftp mmos such as sun online, seal, perfect world etc.
PS I agree with the guy that said Eve is terrible. It's a hugely addicting time sink that will have you thinking the whole time you play that it will get fun someday.. and the next day and the next day. I can't believe it's popular the way it is. But then again I can't believe farmville has 80 million players either.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
If you take out the item shop and base the f2p game on the f2p content then almost any subscription game is better. The problem with almost every f2p game is if you want to get to the end game content you are going to have to shell out some cash, and in most of those games you end up shelling out more money in a month then you would paying the $10-15 monthly fee for a subscription based game.
Now if you had asked name 3 subscription games that are more enjoyable then f2p games I wouldnt be able to offer 3 as I am enjoying the hell out of Allods, Aika, and still have fun when I log in to play a minigame or 3 in Free Realms. The only subscription game I am corrently enjoying is Aion but having 3 characters who are now in that post 30 soul raping level grind, I am starting to lose interest.
Warp
Runes of Magic - Graphics looks cheaper, end-game is nothing like WoW. Feels like cheap f2p game when I play it. Nothing like WoW.
Sun Online - Graphics are nice, but the gameplay isn't smooth at all, theres not too much content and it's just grindy game. I would even pay 30/month for AoC rather than play SUN.
Atlantica Online - Have to say, it's original and nice game.
The trouble with free to play games is the design mentality that goes into their construction keeps them from making a compelling comparison in the first place.
In order to make the "free" to play revenue model functional (entice players into the cash shop) either the better rewards of the game have to be removed which conflicts with the premise of achieving in the first place -OR- undesirable gameplay is thrust on the playerbase that can only be resolved by visiting the cash shop.
Now this is just my opinion, but that is absolutely not the basis for quality gameplay. Maybe free to play games have similar elements in class, movement, graphics, etc as pay to play games, but I don't care. They simply never make it to the stadium in terms of quality competition.
D&D online is often praised for being the best F2P game on the market. Now consider that even a P2P game that failed in the subscription market ranks among the elite of F2P games.
That really tells the whole tale to be honest.
WoW, Lotro, CoH
Im yet to play a f2p game thats has been good or even close to as good as p2p. So to answer your question
wow
eve
eq2
FE
aoc
war
aion
darkfall
I think thats more then 3....
Every single subscription game that is , was, or will be released is far better then any given one F2P
LoTRO, EQ2, and EQ to name but 3 as requested, although I could easily add another dozen without breaking sweat.
The notion that Runes of Magic is exactly the same as World of Warcraft has to be about the dumbest comment on the internet. Granted it is exactly modelled on WoW,and is clearly intended as a cheap rip-off of that game, but last time I played RoM it did not have the crafting, transport, or content of WoW - again, just to name but 3 differences.
I view "quality" to mean first an absence of bugs and glitches, and secondly a high degree of polish and "completeness."
That being said, I'd rank some f2p like RoM above games like WAR, AoC (though haven't played in a while) and many others...
But no game, f2p or otherwise can really match the quality of titles like EvE, WoW, FFXI, Guild Wars, and perhaps a few other subscription games, that have been on the market for a long time, and are amanged by AAA companies.
I'm kind of disappointed Jimmy, you usually make very good posts that I enjoy reading!
No coffee today?
you should have said my opinion instead of yours... meh why i pay you
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
UO
AC1
EQ1
AO
DAOC
WoW
LOTRO
FE
...should I keep going?
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
These games should be called F2P until you log in
There's really no difference between these games and sub games and sometimes you'll even pay more for the "free" games. It's a brilliant strategy by the companies involved - get players into the games and then nickel and dime them to death.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.