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EVE online, RMT and the hidden cash shop

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  • CursedseiCursedsei Member Posts: 1,012

    Originally posted by augustgrace


    I rather suspect that if Darkfall, WAR, AoC or any other mmo company were to begin selling in game currency, the same people defending Eve would be there to bash the decision as a sign of impending doom and corporate greed.


    First off, I don't play Eve, don't have to the time or cash right now


    2nd off, this is a troll topic, plain and simple.


     


    To be on topic, WRONG! They are not selling isk, they are allowing players who have ample money yet little isk to turn it into a PLEX, then sell it to those who don't have a lot of money, but a lot of isk, so they can continue playing. No currency is being created, so what you are saying has nothing to do with this.


    I'm just curious how bored the OP had to of been when they made this topic, and if they even know what a cash shop is in the terms of an MMO. So far, all the facts are pointing to a big N.O.

  • NeysuNeysu Member Posts: 13

    Originally posted by Cursedsei

    Originally posted by augustgrace


    I rather suspect that if Darkfall, WAR, AoC or any other mmo company were to begin selling in game currency, the same people defending Eve would be there to bash the decision as a sign of impending doom and corporate greed.


    First off, I don't play Eve, don't have to the time or cash right now


    2nd off, this is a troll topic, plain and simple.


     


    To be on topic, WRONG! They are not selling isk, they are allowing players who have ample money yet little isk to turn it into a PLEX, then sell it to those who don't have a lot of money, but a lot of isk, so they can continue playing. No currency is being created, so what you are saying has nothing to do with this.


    I'm just curious how bored the OP had to of been when they made this topic, and if they even know what a cash shop is in the terms of an MMO. So far, all the facts are pointing to a big N.O.


    Yes, they are selling ISK, indirectly.


    I buy gametime through CCP mechanic.


    I sell gametime through CCP mechanic.


    I get ISK


     


    This is buying ingame currency, just not under the banner of "CCP ISK SHOP" instead it is under the banner "CCP PLEX anti-RMT we are the good guys shop"


     


    Can you explain to me then, what the definition of a "cash shop" is ?


     


    Because as i understand it, it is somewhere where you shop for ingame items and pay for them with cash. Crazy concept, i hear you, but that appears to be it.


    Nowhere does it say that the item has to be newly created when you hit the buy button


  • Hidden cash shop... Its not hidden at all its well known by everyone that you can buy GTC's from CCP it even says so many times on there website and yes you can sell these on for in game isk if you like but at the end of the day you can only sell them for about 300 mil isk each and you get 2 i think for around £30 yes £30!! not many people are going to be buying lots of these unless they are completely insane all you can get 3 fitted battleships or HAC's not even 1 carrier. Being able to buy GTC's is just a great way for people who play reguarly to be able to play the game for free. You seem to think everyone is blind to what CCP is doing only you see the truth only everyone sees what is going on but you have just got things totally wrong

  • glofishglofish Member UncommonPosts: 346


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players; what you give them in return is game time that you purchased!  Thus when you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's game subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system. True win-win, basically bring more people to play the game, and that is always great for an MMO.

  • AngorimAngorim Member Posts: 466

    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players! When you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system.


    Well said, though I doubt he'll get off his soap box long enough to listen or care.

  • NeysuNeysu Member Posts: 13

    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.





    service run by a company - CHECK 


    company sells virtual goods that it creates - CHECK


    what you pay in cash goes to the company as profit - CHECK


    the company can create any item it wants due to them being the .. creators - CHECK


     


     


    Wait, and you are saying that I am the one who is misunderstanding this?


     


    service run by a company - CCP sells gametime and runs the PLEX system


    company sells virtual goods that it creates - Sells Gametime (for ISK, which it also creates.. it creats all of EVE)


    what you pay in cash goes to the company as profit - I give CCP my IRL money in exchange for a product, gametime (which equals ISK)


    the company can create any item it wants due to them being the .. creators - CCP creates as much gametime as it wants, players earn as much ISK as they want, CCP creates all of EVE

  • spookydomspookydom Member UncommonPosts: 1,782

    Originally posted by Angorim

    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players! When you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system.


    Well said, though I doubt he'll get off his soap box long enough to listen or care.


    Qft  he didn't come here for other points of view he created a new acount to make this troll thread. It's not even a very entertaining one at that. More effort please op:)

  • glofishglofish Member UncommonPosts: 346

    Originally posted by Neysu


    service run by a company - CHECK 


    company sells virtual goods that it creates - CHECK


    what you pay in cash goes to the company as profit - CHECK


    the company can create any item it wants due to them being the .. creators - CHECK


    You need to look up the what the word CHECK is used for.


    I fear you are using it in the opposite way.

  • NeysuNeysu Member Posts: 13

    Originally posted by glofish

    Originally posted by Neysu


    service run by a company - CHECK 


    company sells virtual goods that it creates - CHECK


    what you pay in cash goes to the company as profit - CHECK


    the company can create any item it wants due to them being the .. creators - CHECK


    You need to look up the what the word CHECK is used for.


    I fear you are using it in the opposite way.


    Meaning that you can't point out which one is incorrect, because none of them are? And you are finally seeing my point?

  • InterestingInteresting Member UncommonPosts: 972


    The OP speaks the truth.


     


    Real Money affects in-game conflicts majorly on EVE Online.


    I had a friend who spend over a thousand dollars per month to finance his corporation in game.


     


    When the developers allow players to spend unlimited ammounts of money to get in-game advantages, the cash shop is abusive.


     


    If people only could spend $15 bucks, but off course CCP wouldnt limit its own profit.


     


    The influence of Real Money in-game is killing our genre. Its not a matter of being able to spend $10 or $15 per month, just to play or compete. Nowadays, the sky is the limit and the developers make sure people want to spend more and more, with disregard to the game balance between players.


     


    Its like this: who can pay more wins.




    The ilusion of a purity, balanced FREE game has fallen. Freeloaders are subpar, the gap is increasing day by day.


    Its not fun or entertaining anymore to be part of this exploitative system.


    But this is one of the things that everyone realizes with time. Eventually the number of players who are aware and fed up with this developers/publisher abuses will outweight the number of new and inocent players.


     


    it will have an end.

  • miagisanmiagisan Member Posts: 5,156

    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players; what you give them in return is game time that you purchased!  Thus when you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's game subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system. True win-win, basically bring more people to play the game, and that is always great for an MMO.


    spot on. if you buy a gtc from ccp you are buying time (aka sub). If you choose to exchange this time for in game currency with ANOTHER PLAYER, or use it to add 30 days to your game, its your choice

    image

  • augustgraceaugustgrace Member UncommonPosts: 628

    Originally posted by miagisan

    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players; what you give them in return is game time that you purchased!  Thus when you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's game subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system. True win-win, basically bring more people to play the game, and that is always great for an MMO.


    spot on. if you buy a gtc from ccp you are buying time (aka sub). If you choose to exchange this time for in game currency with ANOTHER PLAYER, or use it to add 30 days to your game, its your choice


    That choice is a "service" offered by ccp, that allows you to use that code, or sell a virtual good (pilot license).

  • miagisanmiagisan Member Posts: 5,156

    Originally posted by augustgrace

    Originally posted by miagisan


    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players; what you give them in return is game time that you purchased!  Thus when you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's game subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system. True win-win, basically bring more people to play the game, and that is always great for an MMO.


    spot on. if you buy a gtc from ccp you are buying time (aka sub). If you choose to exchange this time for in game currency with ANOTHER PLAYER, or use it to add 30 days to your game, its your choice


    That choice is a "service" offered by ccp, that allows you to use that code, or sell a virtual good (pilot license).


    which you are selling to another player and not ccp.

    image

  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,831

    Originally posted by qazyman


    You have to be really slow to think that selling game time is the same thing as having a cash shop. No where in New Eden does CCP sell any Item's.......So get over it and go home!


     


    TLDR


    Amen! 

  • NeysuNeysu Member Posts: 13

    Originally posted by miagisan

    Originally posted by augustgrace


    Originally posted by miagisan


    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players; what you give them in return is game time that you purchased!  Thus when you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's game subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system. True win-win, basically bring more people to play the game, and that is always great for an MMO.


    spot on. if you buy a gtc from ccp you are buying time (aka sub). If you choose to exchange this time for in game currency with ANOTHER PLAYER, or use it to add 30 days to your game, its your choice


    That choice is a "service" offered by ccp, that allows you to use that code, or sell a virtual good (pilot license).


    which you are selling to another player and not ccp.


    CCP get the real life money


    You get the ingame item.


     


    It is very odd you cannot see this, yet can see your side so strongly?

  • miagisanmiagisan Member Posts: 5,156

    Originally posted by Neysu

    Originally posted by miagisan


    Originally posted by augustgrace


    Originally posted by miagisan


    Originally posted by glofish


    The definition of a cash shop is a service run by a company in which the company sells you virtual goods that it creates. What you pay in a cash shop goes directly to the company as profit, and the company can create any item  it wants due to being the ones who run the show.


     


    In EVE you buy ISK from other players; what you give them in return is game time that you purchased!  Thus when you buy ISK with PLEX you are in essence paying  someone else's game subscription. If you don't see, or don't want to see the difference, then there is nothing to more to discuss here.


     


    By the way, it is a truly brilliant system. True win-win, basically bring more people to play the game, and that is always great for an MMO.


    spot on. if you buy a gtc from ccp you are buying time (aka sub). If you choose to exchange this time for in game currency with ANOTHER PLAYER, or use it to add 30 days to your game, its your choice


    That choice is a "service" offered by ccp, that allows you to use that code, or sell a virtual good (pilot license).


    which you are selling to another player and not ccp.


    CCP get the real life money


    You get the ingame item.


     


    It is very odd you cannot see this, yet can see your side so strongly?


    ccp also gets money when you buy time (subscription fee) which allows you to play in game and have a ship....that considered RMT now too?

    image

  • qazymanqazyman Member Posts: 1,785

    Originally posted by Neysu

    Originally posted by glofish


    Originally posted by Neysu


    service run by a company - CHECK 


    company sells virtual goods that it creates - CHECK


    what you pay in cash goes to the company as profit - CHECK


    the company can create any item it wants due to them being the .. creators - CHECK


    You need to look up the what the word CHECK is used for.


    I fear you are using it in the opposite way.


    Meaning that you can't point out which one is incorrect, because none of them are? And you are finally seeing my point?


     Just to make the point. You can deny it all you want, but number 2 is just not true. CCP sells no virtual items in EVE. Game Time Cards are not virtual Items and thats all CCP sells.

  • BertiauxBertiaux Member Posts: 122
    Originally posted by Neysu


    CCP get the real life money


    You get the ingame item.


     


    Isn't that how the F2P cash shops work that everyone is so adamantly against? Hmmm...

    image

  • elderotterelderotter Member Posts: 651

    Originally posted by Cursedsei

    Originally posted by augustgrace


    I rather suspect that if Darkfall, WAR, AoC or any other mmo company were to begin selling in game currency, the same people defending Eve would be there to bash the decision as a sign of impending doom and corporate greed.


    First off, I don't play Eve, don't have to the time or cash right now


    2nd off, this is a troll topic, plain and simple.


     


    To be on topic, WRONG! They are not selling isk, they are allowing players who have ample money yet little isk to turn it into a PLEX, then sell it to those who don't have a lot of money, but a lot of isk, so they can continue playing. No currency is being created, so what you are saying has nothing to do with this.


    I'm just curious how bored the OP had to of been when they made this topic, and if they even know what a cash shop is in the terms of an MMO. So far, all the facts are pointing to a big N.O.


     sorry the NO is for you - if you can buy at their store anything at all that can be bought or sold within the game it is both RMT and a cash shop.  So what?  Go back and play EVE - the actual label of what they are doing should not affect your gameplay, nor does it seem to be having any negative effect on the EVE player population.  


    In a way this is a troll thread - to all you defenders of EVE who have posted that it is not RMT or cash shop - you have been trolled successfully in that you got all upset and put your warpaint on.  Who cares what someone else thinks of the game you love - reading negative post here is just wasting time you could be playing.  Now go back to EVE, have fun, and forget that the game is successfully using RMT's and a type of cash shop and has been doing so for a long time.

  • BedouinBedouin Member UncommonPosts: 26


    Call it a Cash Shop to summon the negative connotation, call it RMT to be technical ... It really doesn't matter beyond illuminated the motive behind the post. Personally I wouldn't call it a shop of any kind since there isn't a way to use the verb form of the term. It is simply a service that some (obviously) disagree with. 


    Semantics aside, the plex system is a an ingenious marketing ploy. I can see the dilated dollar-sign pupils in the eyes of CCP's white collar crowd from here.


    Having a mechanic to let people play for free is in no way an exploit and in no way hurts the intended design of the game. On the contrary, that game time is bought and paid for by someone else, so CCP's bottom line is covered. And secondly, more people in the EVE gameworld means a more vibrant universe. And a populated game world is seductive to future players; another positive for CCP. 


    The PLEX system is also a great way for CCP to hedge any future pit falls. If the next great space MMO shows up in the near future and the player base migrates, or if anything untoward happens to their enterprise and they have to pack up their servers and disappear, well CCP is covered there too. Since they have more than quite a few years of game time, that have already been paid in advance, tucked safely away in a piggybank shaped like a planet with no collision detection.


    The longer EVE will be around, the richer the company is going to be with a very well padded bottom line. Perhaps with all this RL loot they're farming off of us they can finally get around to figuring out how to bring in atmospheric flight, instead of making console games. 


    Regardless, I am not profiting or losing anything from this PLEX system so I have no strong opinions towards or against, But...


    To be fair to the OP I can see where the frustration is coming from. Since I'm a relatively new EVE player I don't know what kinds of numbers the veteran corporations have in their EVE bank accounts. But if 250m ISK is still a lot of money to them, then I can see power gaming PvP guilds shelling out RL cash to fund whatever grand projects or schemes they have in mind. And I understand that this might give them an advantage over other veteran PvP corporations that try to "play by the book.," or have members that aren't as fanatically dedicated to pixelated glory. 

  • elderotterelderotter Member Posts: 651

    Originally posted by Bedouin


    Call it a Cash Shop to summon the negative connotation, call it RMT to be technical ... It really doesn't matter beyond illuminated the motive behind the post. Personally I wouldn't call it a shop of any kind since there isn't a way to use the verb form of the term. It is simply a service that some (obviously) disagree with. 


    Semantics aside, the plex system is a an ingenious marketing ploy. I can see the dilated dollar-sign pupils in the eyes of CCP's white collar crowd from here.


    Having a mechanic to let people play for free is in no way an exploit and in no way hurts the intended design of the game. On the contrary, that game time is bought and paid for by someone else, so CCP's bottom line is covered. And secondly, more people in the EVE gameworld means a more vibrant universe. And a populated game world is seductive to future players; another positive for CCP. 


    The PLEX system is also a great way for CCP to hedge any future pit falls. If the next great space MMO shows up in the near future and the player base migrates, or if anything untoward happens to their enterprise and they have to pack up their servers and disappear, well CCP is covered there too. Since they have more than quite a few years of game time, that have already been paid in advance, tucked safely away in a piggybank shaped like a planet with no collision detection.


    The longer EVE will be around, the richer the company is going to be with a very well padded bottom line. Perhaps with all this RL loot they're farming off of us they can finally get around to figuring out how to bring in atmospheric flight, instead of making console games. 


    Regardless, I am not profiting or losing anything from this PLEX system so I have no strong opinions towards or against, But...


    To be fair to the OP I can see where the frustration is coming from. Since I'm a relatively new EVE player I don't know what kinds of numbers the veteran corporations have in their EVE bank accounts. But if 250m ISK is still a lot of money to them, then I can see power gaming PvP guilds shelling out RL cash to fund whatever grand projects or schemes they have in mind. And I understand that this might give them an advantage over other veteran PvP corporations that try to "play by the book.," or have members that aren't as fanatically dedicated to pixelated glory. 


     In fact I know that the following was true last fall and is probably still true.  CCP - an Icelandic company was the only company in Iceland that was making a profit and not losing money.  So kudus to them.

  • qazymanqazyman Member Posts: 1,785

    Originally posted by Bedouin


    Call it a Cash Shop to summon the negative connotation, call it RMT to be technical ... It really doesn't matter beyond illuminated the motive behind the post. Personally I wouldn't call it a shop of any kind since there isn't a way to use the verb form of the term. It is simply a service that some (obviously) disagree with. 


    Semantics aside, the plex system is a an ingenious marketing ploy. I can see the dilated dollar-sign pupils in the eyes of CCP's white collar crowd from here.


    Having a mechanic to let people play for free is in no way an exploit and in no way hurts the intended design of the game. On the contrary, that game time is bought and paid for by someone else, so CCP's bottom line is covered. And secondly, more people in the EVE gameworld means a more vibrant universe. And a populated game world is seductive to future players; another positive for CCP. 


    The PLEX system is also a great way for CCP to hedge any future pit falls. If the next great space MMO shows up in the near future and the player base migrates, or if anything untoward happens to their enterprise and they have to pack up their servers and disappear, well CCP is covered there too. Since they have more than quite a few years of game time, that have already been paid in advance, tucked safely away in a piggybank shaped like a planet with no collision detection.


    The longer EVE will be around, the richer the company is going to be with a very well padded bottom line. Perhaps with all this RL loot they're farming off of us they can finally get around to figuring out how to bring in atmospheric flight, instead of making console games. 


    Regardless, I am not profiting or losing anything from this PLEX system so I have no strong opinions towards or against, But...


    To be fair to the OP I can see where the frustration is coming from. Since I'm a relatively new EVE player I don't know what kinds of numbers the veteran corporations have in their EVE bank accounts. But if 250m ISK is still a lot of money to them, then I can see power gaming PvP guilds shelling out RL cash to fund whatever grand projects or schemes they have in mind. And I understand that this might give them an advantage over other veteran PvP corporations that try to "play by the book.," or have members that aren't as fanatically dedicated to pixelated glory. 


    No 250 mill isn't that much, and it's really hard to justify spending 15 dollars for it TBH. As far as I can tell, the only real reason for Plex is to finance a free alt, and to hurt the farmers. The problem with using it to finance a large operation is you can count on losing most everything you buy in game, so you're really just throwing money away. I would imagine many inexperienced players might use it to try to get a leg up, but they soon learn the game doesn’t work that way and that after a certain point ISK is pretty easy to come by. 

  • cosycosy Member UncommonPosts: 3,228

    Originally posted by Neysu


    This thread is about CCP, EVE players and the Industries' denial to the simple fact that, CCP has a cash shop. You can buy ingame currency for IRL money.


     


    [Mod Edit]


    there is no fixed rate


    player sell the PLEX

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • StevieHmselfStevieHmself Member Posts: 134


    well its not like u can straight up buy ships for Real money, and its not like  the isk u "buy" is hurting the economy, because PLEX is just another item on the market. frankly there is nothing wrong at all with the system, it gives new players a way to catch up, it gives casual players a way to enjoy the game, and it gives skilled players a way to play for free. who cares. its an amazing system, every mmo should have it!

    Playing EVE
    Played Darkfall, Played Wow,

  • AngorimAngorim Member Posts: 466

    Originally posted by Bertiaux

    Originally posted by Neysu


    CCP get the real life money


    You get the ingame item.


     



    Isn't that how the F2P cash shops work that everyone is so adamantly against? Hmmm...


    There are no "special items" or "pay to win" scenarios akin to a F2P game where you can purchase advantages.  Everyone in EVE has access to the items; the PLEX just offers players a new way to pay for the game.


    All the in game money in the world won't change anything beyond what you can fund.  It doesn't buy you skill or companions (for the most part), both of which are the most important factors in EVE.

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