Guild Wars- MMO or Not?

Pimpslayer · February 2005

Just want to see what the majority of people believe. I think it is technically but it lacks a lot, which puts it on the edge. I would vote on opinion not. (I played in beta events)

VOTE AWAY!

pinkdaisy · February 2005

This is indeed a tricky question. I've been working on my business plan for an MMO and as part of it i had to define what is an MMO.

I defined an MMO as a graphical persistent state world played in realtime. Graphical to seperate MMOs from text-based MUDs. Also realtime to seperate them from the play-by-email and turned-based browser affairs.

Guild wars is interesting because it uses heavy instancing. I don't know what percentage of the world is instanced and what part is persistent? If all the dungeons are instanced then it's really the equivalent of Diablo 2. D2 had a persistent economy and chatchannels, but the rest of the world was not persistent. Unfortunately more and more MMOs are usinig instancing (which runs counter to the whole idea of a PSW) so at what point do they stop being MMOs?

So i guess for me the question becomes how much of the world in GW is persistent and how much is instanced?

knives22 · February 2005

I don't really mind if it's an mmo or not :P the game is awesome.

Kaos_nyrb · February 2005

I feel it is TOO instanced to be an mmorpg.
although don't get me wrong, this is one of the games main strengths.

Sithos · February 2005

This topic was covered a month and a bit ago and iirc the concensus was that Guild Wars is not considered a MMO.

The rationalization being that the only time GW seems to be a MMO is when you go to town to sell your items and are able to interact with all the other players in your vicinity. Other than that you are "instanced" off away from the rest of the players.

IMO it could be considered to be a MMO in that thousands of players are able to access the server at any one time. But on the other hand during the majority of your playtime you will be spirited away from those thousands to play on your own small private area (instance) of the server. Thus I would have to say that I feel that Guild Wars is not a true MMO.

Roin · February 2005

Originally posted by pinkdaisy
This is indeed a tricky question. I've been working on my business plan for an MMO and as part of it i had to define what is an MMO.
I defined an MMO as a graphical persistent state world played in realtime. Graphical to seperate MMOs from text-based MUDs. Also realtime to seperate them from the play-by-email and turned-based browser affairs.
Guild wars is interesting because it uses heavy instancing. I don't know what percentage of the world is instanced and what part is persistent? If all the dungeons are instanced then it's really the equivalent of Diablo 2. D2 had a persistent economy and chatchannels, but the rest of the world was not persistent. Unfortunately more and more MMOs are usinig instancing (which runs counter to the whole idea of a PSW) so at what point do they stop being MMOs?
So i guess for me the question becomes how much of the world in GW is persistent and how much is instanced?

Everyting is instanced as it's needed. You walk outside town without first being grouped. A new instance of the area surrounding the town is created. Only you will be in it as far as players go.

Arena.net has said over and over GW's is not a MMO. They don't want it to be. They wanted GW to be something different entirely. Sure they could have made GW's an official MMO, but don't we have enough of them on horizon already (no pun intended ::::01:: )

pinkdaisy · February 2005

Originally posted by Roin

Everyting is instanced as it's needed. You walk outside town without first being grouped. A new instance of the area surrounding the town is created. Only you will be in it as far as players go.

Arena.net has said over and over GW's is not a MMO. They don't want it to be. They wanted GW to be something different entirely. Sure they could have made GW's an official MMO, but don't we have enough of them on horizon already (no pun intended )

Well in that case GW is the functional equivalent of Diablo 2 then. In D2 the chatchannel are persistent and the economy is persistent but everything else is instanced. Most argue that D2 isn't an MMO and it makes sense that GW isn't an MMO by those standards either. This being an MMO sight shouldn't we then either include games like D2 or exclude ones such as GW for consistency? I'm not judging the merits of the game, i'm simply asking the question does it really fit in the genre.

An even more interesting question is the trend in other MMOs toward greater use of instancing. At what point is it an MMO with instancing vs. and online game with some persistent game features? WoW has lots of instanced content. EQ2 has it's lovely instanced housing system. Is this just becoming a way of branding a D2esque game massively multiplayer to justify charging a monthly subscription (and yes i'm aware that GW won't charge a monthly fee)?

semantic · February 2005

The difficulty in coming up with a good definition of MMO(RPG) is that, thanks to EQ, 'persistent world' has become bound up within the basic understanding of Massively Multiplayer, when that criterion isn't strictly implied. So with GW, although it's arguably Massive and Multiplayer, and clearly an Online RPG, because it makes no pretense of being persistent it doesn't seem to fit (because of the implied criterion).

Perhaps MMORPG.COM should change its name to PersistentWorlds.com for clarity. Only half-joking there.

I'm interested to see where ArenaNet goes with their version of instancing. It seems limited when compared with a persistent world, and it is in some ways, but it's a tool like anything else, and it opens up some interesting RPG possibilities (especially where quests are concerned). For example, the actions of one group could potentially alter the world in a fundamental way for not just everyone on a single server (say 1000 people), but everyone in the world who plays the game (maybe several 100,000s). I mean that's just cool, and definitely the kind of goal MMOs were intended to offer.

Roin · February 2005

Originally posted by semantic
The difficulty in coming up with a good definition of MMO(RPG) is that, thanks to EQ, 'persistent world' has become bound up within the basic understanding of Massively Multiplayer, when that criterion isn't strictly implied. So with GW, although it's arguably Massive and Multiplayer, and clearly an Online RPG, because it makes no pretense of being persistent it doesn't seem to fit (because of the implied criterion).Perhaps MMORPG.COM should change its name to PersistentWorlds.com for clarity. Only half-joking there.I'm interested to see where ArenaNet goes with their version of instancing. It seems limited when compared with a persistent world, and it is in some ways, but it's a tool like anything else, and it opens up some interesting RPG possibilities (especially where quests are concerned). For example, the actions of one group could potentially alter the world in a fundamental way for not just everyone on a single server (say 1000 people), but everyone in the world who plays the game (maybe several 100,000s). I mean that's just cool, and definitely the kind of goal MMOs were intended to offer.

Very good point.

darkman · February 2005

I don't consider GW an MMORPG in any way shape or form, I mean TECHNICALLY you could say it is, based on defining each word of MMORPG, but other than that, it really is not even close. It's like an evolved version of Diablo2, and hardly anyone considers that an MMORPG. But like one of the above posters said, I think that is what GW's strength is, that it isn't an MMORPG. It's in its own genre, and what it has to offer really appeals to me.

saitoe · February 2005

I am SO sick and tired of people asking this same question... the question you SHOULD be asking is it a fun game or not... and its a Corpg

a Cooprative online role playing game

SulZero · February 2005

you lot do ask some daft question none us really care what it is, all i know from experiance and gameplay that this game is awesome and beats the rest of the mmorpg.

I think that arena.net has intentionally created somethink that stands out from the rest of the mmorp's and that is great, this game is like a new genration of rpg's in my opinion

cyrdaan · February 2005

Exactly, I don't care what the hell it is, the game is funa nd that is all that should matter.

Can people stop asking this question please?

Donavyn · February 2005

Here's a definition for MMO, however what everone should realize is that there is no 'official' word on what consitutes as an MMO, and until there is a set standard we're going to be subject to individual speculation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG

It's an interesting read, to say the least.

cooldevo · March 2005

I just posted the answer to this question less than a couple of weeks ago. Does nobody read posts? or do people want to be the ones to ask that "great" question that makes them look smart? This has been answered so many times it is pathetic.

It is NOT a MMORPG. Visit Guild Wars website and look up what they call it. They call it a CORPG.

Please let this topic die now. It has been posted beyond death. And everyone please read previous posts so that we can avoid having something reposted a hundred times. Many other boards will flame reposters, as it proves they do NOT read what has been posted. And if that person won't take the time to peruse the board, then they will not take the time to answer the question.

fnys · March 2005

ArenaNet has labeled it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role Playing Game). Which I believe is a very accuracte genre for it.

From Arenanet.com:

Guild Wars is a Competitive Online Role Playing Game (CORPG) and is fantasy-themed. The game is mostly based on action and has the general rpg features all over it, you gain experience points by killing monsters, different professions to play with, awesome magic skills and sword combo's. You are able to play solo missions, co-operative missions but also compitive missions. All of these missions will be streamed to your computer when you enter the zone, this means that if you were in that mission before and have lost and if there was a bug in the mission then it could just be that the next time when you enter the mission to bug is gone and cleaned up by ArenaNet. This deletes a huge patch once a month, ArenaNet can just upload the new files to their server and the game will be updated, if it is a huge patch then you will get a message saying you should restart Guild Wars and play on so you got the updated game. More of information about the streaming technology can be found in this section of the website.

stav1 · March 2005

Isn't this just a new shiny version of Neverwinter nights?

Defintely not an Mmorpg - which is important to state. Since although GW may be fun it doesn't have the depth of an mmorpg.

Donavyn · March 2005

With respects, submitted from www.guildwars.com:

http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html

Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?

Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences.

Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, kill stealing, and lines to complete a quest.

Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. But Guild Wars eliminates much of the tedium of traveling through the world. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they've previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-on-guild warfare or the international tournament. But engaging in combat is always the player's choice; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.

Finally, unlike existing MMOs, all characters in Guild Wars inhabit the same virtual world -- they are not divided onto different servers or shards -- so players can always team up with or compete against any other player in the world.

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Guild Wars- MMO or Not?

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