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why did this have to be themepark

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  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Member Posts: 1,190

    No one is stupid enough to spend a 100 Million+ developing a sandbox game.

    It's that simple.

    If the sandbox lovers wish to see their niche type of game get this kind of funding they'd best move out of their mother's basements and start up some fortune 500 companies. Otherwise don't ever expect to see a high profile sandbox release.

    Except maybe something from Bethseda. Maybe. Their games have slowly been taking a more themepark approach as of late though.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by Anubisan


    There is still a game for you OP. Its called SWG. Play it.

    Well, YOU just lost all credibility. 

     

    Hey, there's a game for you. It's called Kotor 1 and 2. Go play it with IRC in the backround. 

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero


    No one is stupid enough to spend a 100 Million+ developing a sandbox game.
    It's that simple.
    If the sandbox lovers wish to see their niche type of game get this kind of funding they'd best move out of their mother's basements and start up some fortune 500 companies. Otherwise don't ever expect to see a high profile sandbox release.
    Except maybe something from Bethseda. Maybe. Their games have slowly been taking a more themepark approach as of late though.

    No one needs that much money, they just need good game design and smart developers. It doesn't even have to be a sandbox game, just something unique, or with some thought in it, or features that aren't dumbed down to neanderthal level. 

    Dark Age of Camelot, still one of the best MMOs on the market, was made with 30 people, in the 90s, with limited funds. 

     

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,879

    I'm not worried, I'm hoping somehow Bioware (or someone) does something a bit unexpected and different, who knows, might actually turn out to be fun. 

     

    I'm a bit burned out on level based questing games, and I've already got the sandbox game i want, so if they managed to surprise me it would be sort of cool.

     

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Member UncommonPosts: 1,781

    HOSTILE OPINION, CONTRARY TO THAT OF PREVIOUS POSTERS OPINION(S).

  • AzerinAzerin Member Posts: 170
    Originally posted by arcanist


    this game is so themepark it makes me want to puke. why does cant everyone be a force user that has the choices to take on these rolls. even switch sides. if you wanted to be a republic whatever with force abilities you should be able to switch to sith inquisitor if you want.
    a major theme in starwars is switching sides. falling from the light mainly, but also switching back again. why not in this game.
    and whats with the obsession with story. I hate it when a game force syou to do quests. that was the worst thing about the other games. they would have been awsome if every feature was unolocked from the start. the forced missions broke the entire game for me.
    i hate that bioware is the company that makes the new starwars mmo.
    whats your ideas about this.

    Would you like some cheese with that fine whine of yours?

    I still don't get why this topic isn't dead yet. Bioware made it clear a while ago now what direction the game is goin, and all of you clutchin' your wanks for a sandbox game can let go now.

    Bioware is respected and renowned in the industry for their story-centric games. If you don't like it, don't play their games. It's as simple as that. And you can hate Bioware all you want, but since they have fleshed out a large part of the lore for the Old Republic era of Star Wars in their previous games, I think they have every right to make an MMO based on that era of Star Wars.

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,190

    Because themepark sells.

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by Azerin

    Originally posted by arcanist


    this game is so themepark it makes me want to puke. why does cant everyone be a force user that has the choices to take on these rolls. even switch sides. if you wanted to be a republic whatever with force abilities you should be able to switch to sith inquisitor if you want.
    a major theme in starwars is switching sides. falling from the light mainly, but also switching back again. why not in this game.
    and whats with the obsession with story. I hate it when a game force syou to do quests. that was the worst thing about the other games. they would have been awsome if every feature was unolocked from the start. the forced missions broke the entire game for me.
    i hate that bioware is the company that makes the new starwars mmo.
    whats your ideas about this.

    Would you like some cheese with that fine whine of yours?

    I still don't get why this topic isn't dead yet. Bioware made it clear a while ago now what direction the game is goin, and all of you clutchin' your wanks for a sandbox game can let go now.

    Bioware is respected and renowned in the industry for their story-centric games. If you don't like it, don't play their games. It's as simple as that. And you can hate Bioware all you want, but since they have fleshed out a large part of the lore for the Old Republic era of Star Wars in their previous games, I think they have every right to make an MMO based on that era of Star Wars.

    You'd be singing a different tune if your favorite video game genre did a total 180 and all the new fans, who love the direction that's totally opposite of why you came into the market, told you to shut up and get out. 

  • AzerinAzerin Member Posts: 170
    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by Azerin

    Originally posted by arcanist


    this game is so themepark it makes me want to puke. why does cant everyone be a force user that has the choices to take on these rolls. even switch sides. if you wanted to be a republic whatever with force abilities you should be able to switch to sith inquisitor if you want.
    a major theme in starwars is switching sides. falling from the light mainly, but also switching back again. why not in this game.
    and whats with the obsession with story. I hate it when a game force syou to do quests. that was the worst thing about the other games. they would have been awsome if every feature was unolocked from the start. the forced missions broke the entire game for me.
    i hate that bioware is the company that makes the new starwars mmo.
    whats your ideas about this.

    Would you like some cheese with that fine whine of yours?

    I still don't get why this topic isn't dead yet. Bioware made it clear a while ago now what direction the game is goin, and all of you clutchin' your wanks for a sandbox game can let go now.

    Bioware is respected and renowned in the industry for their story-centric games. If you don't like it, don't play their games. It's as simple as that. And you can hate Bioware all you want, but since they have fleshed out a large part of the lore for the Old Republic era of Star Wars in their previous games, I think they have every right to make an MMO based on that era of Star Wars.

    You'd be singing a different tune if your favorite video game genre did a total 180 and all the new fans, who love the direction that's totally opposite of why you came into the market, told you to shut up and get out. 

    MMORPGS did a total 180? When? 90% of them have been themepark, and yet you're acting surprised that SWTOR will be too.

  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669
    Originally posted by darkwarhamme

    Originally posted by DracheSC


     TOR will be nothing more than a Star Wars themed Guild Wars clone.
    Go ahead and disagree if you like, but my sources are solid. Sorry fanboys and fangirls, TOR is gonna blow.

     

    If this is true, then I wonder what game the journalists have been getting to check out. I want to play that one!

     

    same journalists who said that jonas brothers is new Led Zeppelin

    Generation P

  • DracheSCDracheSC Member Posts: 83
    Originally posted by darkwarhamme

    Originally posted by DracheSC


     TOR will be nothing more than a Star Wars themed Guild Wars clone.
    Go ahead and disagree if you like, but my sources are solid. Sorry fanboys and fangirls, TOR is gonna blow.

     

    If this is true, then I wonder what game the journalists have been getting to check out. I want to play that one!

    I would like to believe you, but using a gross overgeneralization that SWTOR will be nothing more than a Star Wars themed Guild Wars clone kills your credibility. We already have information about the game to prove that theory wrong.

    Perhaps it WAS an over-generalization. I don't see that it kills my credibility, but that's neither here nor there.

    Look at it like this: Guild Wars is something like 90% single-player, instanced, forced-story-driven, with NPC hirelings to form a group with. Don't you see the similarities here?

    Guild Wars was a fun game, for about a week or two. I'm afraid TOR will be more of the same. And those journalists you're talking about? They're playing exactly what I'm talking about. That's where I'm coming from, here.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm probably one of the biggest Star Wars fanboys on the net. I want this game to amaze me, I just highly doubt that it will. I'm worried about whether or not it will even be enjoyable enough to play for more than a few weeks, let alone the whole amazement thing.

    But in truth, all of this is pointless. We'll find out when the game launches. I really, really hope I'm wrong. I really do. I just don't think I am.

    True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.

  • DracheSCDracheSC Member Posts: 83
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA


    HOSTILE OPINION, CONTRARY TO THAT OF PREVIOUS POSTERS OPINION(S).

    Woah! Be careful there! You might get a warning for "trolling" like I did, for disagreeing with people!

    True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Garvon3


    You'd be singing a different tune if your favorite video game genre did a total 180 and all the new fans, who love the direction that's totally opposite of why you came into the market, told you to shut up and get out. 

    How did the genre do a 180? There have been a few key MMO's, everything else was an experiment. The big games in the genre will follow the eq formula until another design hits big like it did and stays viable. Every major sandbox release has been overshot by the next big theme-park to come along. Theme-parks just can't beat WOW as a theme-park. Much like disney world rules the real life theme-park scene. It's the big one....

    Yes some people prefer sandbox games, I do. However we have to realize we're not a huge part of the overall market. Which means we shouldn't expect huge I.P's being used in our preferred games. The money just isn't there for them. Star Wars is a huge name, they want a game design that reflects that.

    As for your other posts, I thought by now this would be a moot point. The writing is on the wall but, you're not going to be able to see it when your head is buried in the sand.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Member UncommonPosts: 1,781
    Originally posted by DracheSC

    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA


    HOSTILE OPINION, CONTRARY TO THAT OF PREVIOUS POSTERS OPINION(S).

    Woah! Be careful there! You might get a warning for "trolling" like I did, for disagreeing with people!

    CLICHE INTERNET INSULT IN REFERENCE TO A PARENTAL UNIT'S SUBTERRAINIAN LIVING SPACE!

    ( :P )

  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158
    Originally posted by DracheSC

    Originally posted by darkwarhamme

    Originally posted by DracheSC


     TOR will be nothing more than a Star Wars themed Guild Wars clone.
    Go ahead and disagree if you like, but my sources are solid. Sorry fanboys and fangirls, TOR is gonna blow.

     

    If this is true, then I wonder what game the journalists have been getting to check out. I want to play that one!

    I would like to believe you, but using a gross overgeneralization that SWTOR will be nothing more than a Star Wars themed Guild Wars clone kills your credibility. We already have information about the game to prove that theory wrong.

    Perhaps it WAS an over-generalization. I don't see that it kills my credibility, but that's neither here nor there.

    Look at it like this: Guild Wars is something like 90% single-player, instanced, forced-story-driven, with NPC hirelings to form a group with. Don't you see the similarities here?

    Guild Wars was a fun game, for about a week or two. I'm afraid TOR will be more of the same. And those journalists you're talking about? They're playing exactly what I'm talking about. That's where I'm coming from, here.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm probably one of the biggest Star Wars fanboys on the net. I want this game to amaze me, I just highly doubt that it will. I'm worried about whether or not it will even be enjoyable enough to play for more than a few weeks, let alone the whole amazement thing.

    But in truth, all of this is pointless. We'll find out when the game launches. I really, really hope I'm wrong. I really do. I just don't think I am.

    Ok couple of things, first off TOR isn't 90% single player as thats already been covered by the latest hands on. It isn't heavily instanced, read few people saying its like 10% instanced. And forced story driven is NOT a bad thing unless you actually enjoy grinding threw the levels not knowing what the hell is going on and why you are even there.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by Jimmy562

    Originally posted by DracheSC

    Originally posted by darkwarhamme

    Originally posted by DracheSC


     TOR will be nothing more than a Star Wars themed Guild Wars clone.
    Go ahead and disagree if you like, but my sources are solid. Sorry fanboys and fangirls, TOR is gonna blow.

     

    If this is true, then I wonder what game the journalists have been getting to check out. I want to play that one!

    I would like to believe you, but using a gross overgeneralization that SWTOR will be nothing more than a Star Wars themed Guild Wars clone kills your credibility. We already have information about the game to prove that theory wrong.

    Perhaps it WAS an over-generalization. I don't see that it kills my credibility, but that's neither here nor there.

    Look at it like this: Guild Wars is something like 90% single-player, instanced, forced-story-driven, with NPC hirelings to form a group with. Don't you see the similarities here?

    Guild Wars was a fun game, for about a week or two. I'm afraid TOR will be more of the same. And those journalists you're talking about? They're playing exactly what I'm talking about. That's where I'm coming from, here.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm probably one of the biggest Star Wars fanboys on the net. I want this game to amaze me, I just highly doubt that it will. I'm worried about whether or not it will even be enjoyable enough to play for more than a few weeks, let alone the whole amazement thing.

    But in truth, all of this is pointless. We'll find out when the game launches. I really, really hope I'm wrong. I really do. I just don't think I am.

    Ok couple of things, first off TOR isn't 90% single player as thats already been covered by the latest hands on. It isn't heavily instanced, read few people saying its like 10% instanced. And forced story driven is NOT a bad thing unless you actually enjoy grinding threw the levels not knowing what the hell is going on and why you are even there.

    Sorry bud, but the devs themselves said 95% soloable content. And only 10% instanced is BS. Either it'll be instanced, or there won't be a story. 

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade Member UncommonPosts: 757

    Soloable does not mean single player.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Sorry bud, but the devs themselves said 95% soloable content. And only 10% instanced is BS. Either it'll be instanced, or there won't be a story. 

    Unlucky you. Today on G4 they did an interview with Daniel Erickson about this very topic. And this percentage you mention is specifically on the leveling process. He also mentioned there will be content soloers will never see. So gg. Now, your rebuttal?

    Also wanted to add something about instancing in ToR. The world won't be instanced, they will use phasing in some locations to keep that immersive feel for the story. Flashpoints (instances, dungeons etc) are instanced, much like a dungeon in WoW. This is probably where you will gather gear, we already know it's for major parts of the story, but what leads me to believe this is there dungeon is the fact that it's repeatable.

     

  • XerithXerith Member Posts: 970

    You can solo in just about every major mmo thats out there from start to level cap. Even the old sandbox games like UO never forced you to play with anyone else if you didnt want to.

  • darkwarhammedarkwarhamme Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by greed0104

    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Sorry bud, but the devs themselves said 95% soloable content. And only 10% instanced is BS. Either it'll be instanced, or there won't be a story. 

    Unlucky you. Today on G4 they did an interview with Daniel Erickson about this very topic. And this percentage you mention is specifically on the leveling process. He also mentioned there will be content soloers will never see. So gg. Now, your rebuttal?

    Also wanted to add something about instancing in ToR. The world won't be instanced, they will use phasing in some locations to keep that immersive feel for the story. Flashpoints (instances, dungeons etc) are instanced, much like a dungeon in WoW. This is probably where you will gather gear, we already know it's for major parts of the story, but what leads me to believe this is there dungeon is the fact that it's repeatable.

     

    Thank you! Yes, you hit the nail on the head.

     

    The problem is most people keep stating the same arguments about why this game is going to fail, but their arguments aren't even sound. Many have no idea about even half of the information that has been released about the game. They aren't reading any of the interviews, or they would know about the game being perfect for the solo or group player. Most are probably skimming the information without reading anything of substance and say, "nothing new was said, so why the interview?".

    So lets see common arguments and whether they hold up:

    90-90% Solo content: False, check out the latest interviews OR look at the stickies in this forum, this point is addressed several times.

    Instanced Game: This has a little truth to it, as Bioware stated they would have instances, but most of the game would not be instanced. Even the demos that were given weren't instanced. Case in point it is not Guild Wars.

    Themepark: Depends on how far you stretch the definition. More themepark then sandbox, sure, but that doesn't make it a themepark game. You can make choices that effect how your character develops, the abilities they get, and the quests you go on just by your answers during quest dialogue. That doesn't sound like a themepark to me.

     

    There is still a lot of information to be disclosed from Bioware, but these main concerns have been beaten to death and constantly addressed. At this point people either aren't listening to the information given, or just don't believe Bioware is telling the truth about their own game.

    Many concerns are valid, but these main three aren't.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Garvon3
    Because theme park is where the money is at. 
     

    Because that is what people want.


    Since when 'themepark' games are something bad or merely used as insult?

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
    Originally posted by arcanist


    this game is so themepark it makes me want to puke. why does cant everyone be a force user that has the choices to take on these rolls. even switch sides. if you wanted to be a republic whatever with force abilities you should be able to switch to sith inquisitor if you want.
    a major theme in starwars is switching sides. falling from the light mainly, but also switching back again. why not in this game.
    No thank you. We saw what happened in SWG when players are given the ability to switch sidesat will. No thanks. Pick a side and stick with it.
    and whats with the obsession with story. I hate it when a game force syou to do quests. that was the worst thing about the other games. they would have been awsome if every feature was unolocked from the start. the forced missions broke the entire game for me.
    Then I guess you don't like many MMOs out right now since the majority of them involve quests of some kind. Players like story because it adds to the imersion of the game. In most games if you didn't want to do the quests you could always go out to the forest and slaughter animals for XP. That was basically what you did before the advent of quests. What's stopping you from doing that now?
    i hate that bioware is the company that makes the new starwars mmo.
    whats your ideas about this.

    My idea is that  no one could possibly do worse than SOE did with this IP.  I love that Bioware is making this game.KOTOR is one of the few RPGs I ever got into and IMO it was the best Star Wars game ever made.From what I've seen, we'll still have plenty to explore if that strikes your fancy and plenty of group related content. There also seems to be enough characterization so that everyone doesn't look the same. The only question I have left is how the economy works.

    So far as "themepark" goes, if it's a fun ride with plenty of options,then who cares? Better than a boring sandbox that drops you in the middle of nowhere and says "now go play." Those days are over. Get use to it.

     

     

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    Originally posted by arcanist


    this game is so themepark it makes me want to puke. why does cant everyone be a force user that has the choices to take on these rolls. even switch sides. if you wanted to be a republic whatever with force abilities you should be able to switch to sith inquisitor if you want.
    a major theme in starwars is switching sides. falling from the light mainly, but also switching back again. why not in this game.
    and whats with the obsession with story. I hate it when a game force syou to do quests. that was the worst thing about the other games. they would have been awsome if every feature was unolocked from the start. the forced missions broke the entire game for me.
    i hate that bioware is the company that makes the new starwars mmo.
    whats your ideas about this.

     

    Not again. You listen to bits and pieces and somehow think you know everything about the game there is to know when they've only dribbled out tidbits once a month or so and the game hasn't even become remotely close to being released yet.

     

    How about you do something totally unexpected on these forums... HAVE PATIENCE AND WAIT TO JUDGE UNTIL YOU SEE THE GAME.

     

    I know its hard doing something so reasonable when you just want to rail and scream and pound your fists from the rumors you keep hearing from people who love to scare others, but its best to try to do it anyway.

  • nubadaknubadak Member Posts: 150
    Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero


    No one is stupid enough to spend a 100 Million+ developing a sandbox game.
    It's that simple.
    If the sandbox lovers wish to see their niche type of game get this kind of funding they'd best move out of their mother's basements and start up some fortune 500 companies. Otherwise don't ever expect to see a high profile sandbox release.
    Except maybe something from Bethseda. Maybe. Their games have slowly been taking a more themepark approach as of late though.



     

    As to the first  bit about companies spending 100m on a product  or sandbox mmo asw per say....happens everyday . More and more in the game industry in India/ china as late. I luv EA but it's been a decline and resizing since they chose to make badcompany and 1943 over remaking 2142.

    I think the future in the short term for sand box mmo's are F2P, But there is hope.  As biowear is being courted by the big money playrers ask themselves can they (biowear) maintain their brand as a fair game maker? eg: Can story mean open world? You can't have Starwars with out space period. But can we have a story in an open world?

    If this is indeed the question biowear is asking themselves..there is hope. If not....maybe Bethseada can get an even bigger crack at it.

    Don't kid yourself, 100m to develop a product is a serious endevour and all ideas get the same buck.

    image

  • nubadaknubadak Member Posts: 150

    OMG!!

    Sigh my grammer is terrible ^^

    ^^

    image

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