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Ubisoft's New Online Super DRM - Cracked in 1 day

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Comments

  • skeaserskeaser Member UncommonPosts: 4,034

    I'm not personally a big fan of piracy but I see this as a good thing. I spend a lot of time on trips to locations that don't always have internet access, this new DRM would take away my ability to play a lot of games while out on the road.

    I doubt I would steal any of the games, but I may crack them if I do end up with them, odds are I just won't buy 'em.

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Member UncommonPosts: 1,085
    Originally posted by sepher

    Originally posted by harvest151

    What you're describing is pirates who make up things about DRM, to justify the thievery they were going to do anyway.

     

    not to be a dick, but uhhhh....  what you are doing HERE is being a judgmental prick that is assuming (note the spelling) that you have some mystical insight into the mind of every single personal alive and playing video games on this planet.  Here's a wild Idea. Mind your own business.



     

    Yes I am being a judgemental prick towards thieves and piracy. And only in response to self-righteous thieves who're being pricks themselves. I didn't start a thread lambasting this or that, nor did I fall in line championing piracy. But I did chime in to be a 'judgemental prick' to others who were being the exact same. So the only thing I'm really guilty of here is stooping to the level of others. 

    And do note I'm being generla, as there's no way for me to know who pirates and who doesn't beyond self-admission. In being general though, If you steal games and have a problem with me addressing such persons as thieves, then oh well. It's a proper descriptor, is it not?

    As for minding my own business; don't start a thread if you don't want me minding your business on the matter you posted about. Fair enough, no?

    As for all that other stuff...no idea what it was about. Feel better though if you're upset.

     

    I just wanted to take a moment to point out how ridiculous it is to boil DRM and software piracy into black and white: thieves and law abiding consumers. There's a reason people download cracked versions and pirated software, and though it may be that some of these people are actually criminals, most do it out of an expectancy for more from the experiences they desire in a product that is otherwise lacking or prohibitive. I've always been astounded how individuals can take up arms against piracy, largely due to the fact that people wouldn't be pirating if game studios and developers were spending more time creating a better product that gave their audience what they actually wanted, rather than being audacious money grabs (in some cases).

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    In this case, imo, at least, i think the hackers may actually be doing everyone a favour, by hacking these DRM features of games their undermining the companies that try to force them on the consumers, sooner or later their going to have to accept, that either their games are going to be hacked, or that people just dont want DRM forced on them. in the end, DRM isnt going to make any difference to the people who are going to pirate their software, it will though, make a difference to the people who intend to purchase their software, probably negatively..

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    lol piracy is there because game dev or movie maker etc fail to prevent piracy

    i knew a guy in the past he was caught very often by the police for piracy ,illigal sat everything you can think of

    police asked im why he did it!he said even if i get caught i make more money now then i i could ever have done with my legit

    store .so in the end piracy is still about one thing money

    they crack it then sell craqued game for 10 $ 15 max sell like hot coffee!its simple

    check guild wars did you see it cracked.cracker dont bother since its already free after you buy it

    thats why f2p game will be the futur in the end!

     

  • ScotlandTomScotlandTom Member Posts: 3
    Originally posted by pb1285n





    People try to point their fingers at developers for why they steal, but in reality they were stealing long before DRMs came around. You steal because you don't have the money, or because you don't want to spend the money, or simply because it's easy. Not because a game has a DRM.

    The blame for DRMs is not on the developer, it's on the pirates and their supporters who feel entitled to everything for free.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but such broad generalization is like trying to hit multiple targets at range with a single shotgun blast - you're just spraying pellets everywhere.  While your description may accurately characterize some pirates, it wholly neglects significant portions of the pirating population.  Sure some pirates just pirate games because they're poor, or because it's easy.  There are, however, those who really are fed up with DRM schemes and pirate games to "send a message" to developers.  There are also pirates who are "boycotting" a chosen developer for some reason or another.  Still some live in areas or countries where a game isn't available to them unless they pirate it.

    I personally know at least one individual who had never even considered pirating a game or any other software until he was increasingly faced with DRM he found distasteful, intrusive or otherwise absurd being included with games he wished to play.  Now, though he has the cash, he does pirate games, but only the ones with DRM schemes he finds unreasonable.

    I'm not saying he, or pirating in general is right.  I'm not agreeing with the various justifications for it.  It is, when you break it right down, acquiring something you haven't paid for - stealing.  Personally if I'm faced with a game that incorporates a DRM scheme that I don't agree with I simply won't make a purchase.  But the fact is that there are more pirates out there than those who download games simply due to things like entitlement or the desire to get something without paying for it.  Attempting to say otherwise simply demonstrates an ignorance to the varied personalities and motivations that exist within any group of individuals.

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,378

    Yes I love the idea of shelling out my cash.  Only to have a developer tell me when and where I can play my game.  What I can and can't do with it.  DRM doesn't deter piracy.  All it does is put off people that spend their hard earned money on a game.  I can see having a MMORPG or even a FPS with ladder and stat tracking require an internet connection that is always on.  A single player game though? Come on.  Ubisoft can sit on it, and rotate.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • nAAtimusnAAtimus Member Posts: 342

    GG Ubisoft.

    I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    check me!i was fed up with the one aion used at the start cant recall the name that one is one of the most intrusive i had ever seen you cant get rid of it .in the end aion didnt release with it dont know if they braught it back but

    there should be laws for those thing hell microsoft get sued for way sillier reason

    there should be limit to how intrusive a drm can go

    i dont mind the ubisoft way tho since it doesnt look like they play with my computer innard its not really intrusive unless they changed it

    they just check if there is only one copy you use it might have been cracked but dont count your laurel because

    ubisoft is one company that plug hole very fast .i bet they re already on it!

  • brostynbrostyn Member Posts: 3,092

    Comparing Ubisoft's new anti-piracy spyware(yes, you're giving them the ability to spy on you)  to a convenience store camera is a little, nay, a lot on the ridiculous side. That camera is in their shop. Not my house. Same thing with the bullet proof glass(BTW you may want to move if your convenience store has this). Once a company thinks they can come into my home, and watch what I'm doing they have crossed the line. To give into this kind of mentality will only erode our privacy rights even further.

     

    Fighting crime is great. Being proactive is fantastic. Spying on me is illegal, and against our constitutional rights. Our forefathers fought hard for our privacy. Some people don't mind giving it up. I do. I say no to being monitored on a minute to minute basis. Don't be on the side of the tyrant. FREEDOM!!!!

     

    BTW, I'd like to go on record that I've never nor will I ever pirate a game. I just won't buy any from a company that expects me to stay connected to their server. I'm not trusting an entity whose sole purpose for being is money.

  • RakaraiRakarai Member UncommonPosts: 114

    I love these kinds of posts, too bad I wasn't here for the troll fest.

    Cracks aren't a slap on the wrist crime by the way not sure where you guys got that from. This is even more so true if it deals with consoles for Americans where the DMCA pretty much says mod chips are illegal, regardless of use, you have absolutely no rights to mod something you bought. I can't go ahead right now and mod my xbox and run linux on it if I so choose, because that is illegal and has been proven to be quite so. Mr.mod chip and ICE are great examples of this argument. 

    Be as self righteous as you want  that cracks make DRMS okay, point is if you can only play the game via a crack its a illegal, you'll still be fined or jailed for the same amount of money or the same amount of time if you crack or if you pirate. Either way the company has you by the balls in clear black and white with the DMCA. Anything that circumvents copyright protection [See mod chips, cracks,  reverse engineering in some cases.] Are all illegal, so go ahead be self righteous as much as you want, its still illegal.

    Morally I agree, That shit shouldn't happen, I should be able to use a flash cart on my DS and use it as an e book reader, or make some fancy software to make phone calls via wifi whatever. You shouldn't have to be online just to play a singleplayer, CD keys are fine, but it goes too far when it alters your computer.

    And I am happy that Ubi got their face slammed into the dirt again by Skid. Also whoever said pirating is hard and getting internet access is hard... can I lol at your face please? Can I? It would be like Christmas for me.  Warcraft 3 beautiful example, easy enough to pirate has a phenomenal private server. 

    Tell you what I'll do you one better on your ohnoes piracy is hard. Ds games Acekardi 2i breaks every single drm feature without doing anything. You just download the game pop it into your flashcart and the flashcard itself has already cracked it for you. Where is your ohnoes piracy is hard speech to this? It isn't even close to a deterrent

    Sony has spent a fortune trying to improve their psps security from making new versions to updates, and still they are getting owned by Dark alex and the Gen team. There isn't anything hard about piracy, and that is why piracy happens its not hard, its easier then playing a game with activation of any sort.

    You can say what you want morally on this matter, but those are the facts. In America cracking is illegal, you don't own your console you are leasing it for lack of a better word, companies spend fortunes creating drms that are easily crackable, and if an online game is good enough a private server is made. [See mmo private servers.] 

    While those that bought the game legally, have to go and do illegal things just to play them, giving them the potential to get fined by the same company. I love a good double tap of rape to your wallet.

     

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Member UncommonPosts: 1,198
    Originally posted by Lawlmonster

    Originally posted by sepher

    Originally posted by harvest151

    What you're describing is pirates who make up things about DRM, to justify the thievery they were going to do anyway.

     

    not to be a dick, but uhhhh....  what you are doing HERE is being a judgmental prick that is assuming (note the spelling) that you have some mystical insight into the mind of every single personal alive and playing video games on this planet.  Here's a wild Idea. Mind your own business.



     

    Yes I am being a judgemental prick towards thieves and piracy. And only in response to self-righteous thieves who're being pricks themselves. I didn't start a thread lambasting this or that, nor did I fall in line championing piracy. But I did chime in to be a 'judgemental prick' to others who were being the exact same. So the only thing I'm really guilty of here is stooping to the level of others. 

    And do note I'm being generla, as there's no way for me to know who pirates and who doesn't beyond self-admission. In being general though, If you steal games and have a problem with me addressing such persons as thieves, then oh well. It's a proper descriptor, is it not?

    As for minding my own business; don't start a thread if you don't want me minding your business on the matter you posted about. Fair enough, no?

    As for all that other stuff...no idea what it was about. Feel better though if you're upset.

     

    I just wanted to take a moment to point out how ridiculous it is to boil DRM and software piracy into black and white: thieves and law abiding consumers. There's a reason people download cracked versions and pirated software, and though it may be that some of these people are actually criminals, most do it out of an expectancy for more from the experiences they desire in a product that is otherwise lacking or prohibitive. I've always been astounded how individuals can take up arms against piracy, largely due to the fact that people wouldn't be pirating if game studios and developers were spending more time creating a better product that gave their audience what they actually wanted, rather than being audacious money grabs (in some cases).

     

    I agree with Sepher's argument that if you download it and play it then you are a thief period. I'm not clean, I have pirated software before and I felt bad about it and have stopped pirating games because I actually have the money for it now. I never did it to stick it to the corporate big wigs or to prove a point. I did it because I was too broke to afford it, but that is not a valid excuse.

    If a lot of these pirates are doing it to demonstrate a point to the developers that they do not like sub par games or strict DRM then they should simply not buy and not play that game. I don't see why these particular people would play these money grabs if that is all they saw them as. Vote with your wallet and stop jacking games that don't belong to you. The end result is the same, they won't get your money, but it is a far more respectable approach.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,809
    Originally posted by VirgoThree

    Originally posted by Lawlmonster



     

    I just wanted to take a moment to point out how ridiculous it is to boil DRM and software piracy into black and white: thieves and law abiding consumers. There's a reason people download cracked versions and pirated software, and though it may be that some of these people are actually criminals, most do it out of an expectancy for more from the experiences they desire in a product that is otherwise lacking or prohibitive. I've always been astounded how individuals can take up arms against piracy, largely due to the fact that people wouldn't be pirating if game studios and developers were spending more time creating a better product that gave their audience what they actually wanted, rather than being audacious money grabs (in some cases).

     

    I agree with Sepher's argument that if you download it and play it then you are a thief period. I'm not clean, I have pirated software before and I felt bad about it and have stopped pirating games because I actually have the money for it now. I never did it to stick it to the corporate big wigs or to prove a point. I did it because I was too broke to afford it, but that is not a valid excuse.

    If a lot of these pirates are doing it to demonstrate a point to the developers that they do not like sub par games or strict DRM then they should simply not buy and not play that game. I don't see why these particular people would play these money grabs if that is all they saw them as. Vote with your wallet and stop jacking games that don't belong to you. The end result is the same, they won't get your money, but it is a far more respectable approach.

     

    I completely agree. I've installed software before without paying for it when I was in college because I couldn't afford it. Wasn't the right thing to do. To atone I went back and purchased new copies of everything I had.

    People need to eat and people need jobs. If someone doesn't like a company's efforts then they should vote with their wallets.

    I believe this Penny Arcade comic says it all...

     

    www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/2/19/




  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Member UncommonPosts: 1,085
    Originally posted by VirgoThree

    Originally posted by Lawlmonster

    Originally posted by sepher

    Originally posted by harvest151

    What you're describing is pirates who make up things about DRM, to justify the thievery they were going to do anyway.

     

    not to be a dick, but uhhhh....  what you are doing HERE is being a judgmental prick that is assuming (note the spelling) that you have some mystical insight into the mind of every single personal alive and playing video games on this planet.  Here's a wild Idea. Mind your own business.



     

    Yes I am being a judgemental prick towards thieves and piracy. And only in response to self-righteous thieves who're being pricks themselves. I didn't start a thread lambasting this or that, nor did I fall in line championing piracy. But I did chime in to be a 'judgemental prick' to others who were being the exact same. So the only thing I'm really guilty of here is stooping to the level of others. 

    And do note I'm being generla, as there's no way for me to know who pirates and who doesn't beyond self-admission. In being general though, If you steal games and have a problem with me addressing such persons as thieves, then oh well. It's a proper descriptor, is it not?

    As for minding my own business; don't start a thread if you don't want me minding your business on the matter you posted about. Fair enough, no?

    As for all that other stuff...no idea what it was about. Feel better though if you're upset.

     

    I just wanted to take a moment to point out how ridiculous it is to boil DRM and software piracy into black and white: thieves and law abiding consumers. There's a reason people download cracked versions and pirated software, and though it may be that some of these people are actually criminals, most do it out of an expectancy for more from the experiences they desire in a product that is otherwise lacking or prohibitive. I've always been astounded how individuals can take up arms against piracy, largely due to the fact that people wouldn't be pirating if game studios and developers were spending more time creating a better product that gave their audience what they actually wanted, rather than being audacious money grabs (in some cases).

     

    I agree with Sepher's argument that if you download it and play it then you are a thief period. I'm not clean, I have pirated software before and I felt bad about it and have stopped pirating games because I actually have the money for it now. I never did it to stick it to the corporate big wigs or to prove a point. I did it because I was too broke to afford it, but that is not a valid excuse.

    If a lot of these pirates are doing it to demonstrate a point to the developers that they do not like sub par games or strict DRM then they should simply not buy and not play that game. I don't see why these particular people would play these money grabs if that is all they saw them as. Vote with your wallet and stop jacking games that don't belong to you. The end result is the same, they won't get your money, but it is a far more respectable approach.

     

    You made a few good points that I agree with, though saying that someone is a "thief period" for downloading pirated software is incredibly condemning. Let's be honest with each other: almost everyone has at some point in their life used illegally acquired software. There are no victims in this situation, on either side of the DRM fence, which is why I think viewing the subject in black and white could be damning to ones personal perspective.

     

    For anecdotes sake, I'll mention that I've occasionally downloaded a pirated game, or a certain photo editing program, from an illegal source. The reason why I do this, particularly in regards to the certain photo editing program, is because it's exorbitantly expensive. I'm not a professional artist or photographer, but I do believe that spending hundreds of my own dollars on a hobby isn't cost effective. The way I show this to the industry, and to the company that developed this certain photo editing program, isn't by refusal to purchase their product: after all, how are they going to notice the absence of a sale that was never going to exist, anyway? Chances are, developers and producers are going to pay far more attention to how many of their games were "stolen", rather than the potential sales audience they had failed to reach. Identifying the fairly obvious issues that are in front of their noses is what will, eventually, help thwart the necessity for pirating: finding cheaper ways to make these software suites, and giving the users what they actually want.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,597
    Originally posted by kairi_sweet


    a new system but already been cracked in just 1 day?! LOL! are you serious?

     

    Actually, it probably took about a half hour, then took the remainder of the day to compile, create the readme, playtest, and post.

    I'm all for reasonable protection of copyrights, but requiring a constant online connection goes far beyond reasonable.  Not to mention, it makes the cracked version a BETTER, MORE CONVENIENT PRODUCT than the original. 

    To borrow a line from Dave Ramsey, that's just stupid with 0's on the end.  And the money they lost setting up servers and paying for this DRM also had lots of 0's on the end.  That makes Ubisoft 0's as well.

  • mklinicmklinic Member UncommonPosts: 1,608

    posted this in another thread, but might also be relevant to the conversation here:

    www.joystiq.com/2010/03/07/ubisoft-drm-authentification-server-is-down-assassins-creed-2/

    Relevant quote from the article:

    ""Ubisoft's DRM authentification servers have crashed, forcing some players to suffer lengthy login periods when booting up Assassin's Creed 2, and locking some folks out of the game entirely.""

    Haven't really followed up on the situation beyond that article so far, but seems like an example of how this particular DRM is resulting in an inferior product for the legitimate consumer. Now, back to your regularly scheduled arguments about anything but the actual DRM....

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • SimsuSimsu Member UncommonPosts: 386

    This new DRM is such a waste and Ubi is going to pay for deciding to do with it. Every time their servers crap out or someone's internet is down or whatever. I'm not saying companies shouldn't try to protect their software but what Ubi is trying to do is just plain stupid.

    MMORPGs have the best DRM a company can get since each player is required to have their own key to access the game but even their DRM is defeated by emulated "private" servers.

  • quixadhalquixadhal Member UncommonPosts: 215

    Just chiming in with my usual Piracy != Theft response, since nobody seems to get it.

    Pirating software IS illegal (in most countries), but it's a violation of copyright law and has nothing to do with property theft.  When you steal something, you are depriving someone else of the use of the thing stolen.  When you copy something, you are depriving someone of a *potential* profit, which might or might not have become an actual profit.

    The DMCA is illegal, because it violates the first sale doctrine, just like EULA's.  Unfortunately for those of us in the USA, big money pushed the law into existence, and keeps it from being overturned.  Indeed, if anything the DMCA encourages outright theft, since the punishment for petty theft of a $50 game is far less than a DMCA violation.

    So, while I can't encourage anyone to steal OR pirate, I do hope Ubisoft loses a lot of money on that turd, and I hope anyone else with such draconian protection loses lots of money, so maybe it'll become obvious that what's costing them money isn't piracy... but is annoying customers so they won't buy future products.

     

  • mklinicmklinic Member UncommonPosts: 1,608
    Originally posted by mklinic


    posted this in another thread, but might also be relevant to the conversation here:
    www.joystiq.com/2010/03/07/ubisoft-drm-authentification-server-is-down-assassins-creed-2/
    Relevant quote from the article:
    ""Ubisoft's DRM authentification servers have crashed, forcing some players to suffer lengthy login periods when booting up Assassin's Creed 2, and locking some folks out of the game entirely.""
    Haven't really followed up on the situation beyond that article so far, but seems like an example of how this particular DRM is resulting in an inferior product for the legitimate consumer. Now, back to your regularly scheduled arguments about anything but the actual DRM....

     

    but wait...there's more...

    g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/703046/Ubisoft-DRM-Servers-Under-Attack-PC-Players-Unable-To-Access-Games.html

    twitter.com/Ubisoft/status/10184920360

    Apparently the Ubisoft servers might be getting DoS'd to some extent. Regardless of your moral position regarding a DoS attack, it does underscore a weak link (no pun intended) in this specific DRM implementation.

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,597
    Originally posted by mklinic


    posted this in another thread, but might also be relevant to the conversation here:
    www.joystiq.com/2010/03/07/ubisoft-drm-authentification-server-is-down-assassins-creed-2/
    Relevant quote from the article:
    ""Ubisoft's DRM authentification servers have crashed, forcing some players to suffer lengthy login periods when booting up Assassin's Creed 2, and locking some folks out of the game entirely.""
    Haven't really followed up on the situation beyond that article so far, but seems like an example of how this particular DRM is resulting in an inferior product for the legitimate consumer. Now, back to your regularly scheduled arguments about anything but the actual DRM....

     

    Now, if joystiq.com would kindly provide a link to the superior product, aka the one that allows you to play the game you own whether Ubi's servers work or not, aka the cracked version, many purchasers of the game will actually be able to ummm... play it.

    I said it a couple weeks ago and now I'll put it in news terms.  Yesterday you can bet there were legit buyers of this game searching for the crack to a game they already owned.  So they could actually PLAY it.  Many of those probably got duped into downloading viruses which will spread and screw with the rest of us who weren't involved at all.

    Nice job.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,597
    Originally posted by mklinic



     

    but wait...there's more...

    g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/703046/Ubisoft-DRM-Servers-Under-Attack-PC-Players-Unable-To-Access-Games.html

    twitter.com/Ubisoft/status/10184920360

    Apparently the Ubisoft servers might be getting DoS'd to some extent. Regardless of your moral position regarding a DoS attack, it does underscore a weak link (no pun intended) in this specific DRM implementation.

     

    ...one that every company with half a mind could have and should have anticipated.

  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851


    Originally posted by sepher
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp
    Originally posted by sepher Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.
     
    I purchased Borderlands specifically because it didnt' have any of this crap. I installed it, and it works.
    I pay for good games, I often pass on games if they have a bunch of DRM crap that comes with them.
    I picked up other games while shopping, saw the DRM on them,  put them back on the shelf, and then paid for Borderlands.
    When given a choice, I'll buy the game without the DRM.
     

     
    What's the point? If you dislike DRM, don't buy games with DRM. Having not bought something because it has DRM or any other reason though cannot become a reason for a person to steal it instead.
    I buy croutons that come in those nice rippable bags rather than the cereal-type boxes, but that wouldn't give me justification to start stealing the ones in packages I don't like.
    There's plenty of products we don't buy for simple reasons as not liking how its packaged, or how its handled, but we don't start immediately stealing it and feel justified about it.
    There's not buying a product for a reason, and then there's being a thief. Being a thief is the reason you wouldn't buy a product, there's no middle-man reason such as DRM that can be used to explain becoming a thief.


    You are comparing apples to oranges. When you have to buy your croutons and then bring them home, get on the internet to type in your "unlocking key" then punch that in the device on the bag to open the contents then you can fuckin talk.

    Your logic fails on the level of the actual discussion. It's not about "thieves" (I guarantee you listened to an mp3 you were not entitled to, you hypocrite) but about the whole system as a whole. It made honest customers have to deal with more bullshit. Online activation is one thing, but constantly having to be online to play a single player game is absolute bullshit and if you don't see that then you need to take of those rose colored glasses and realize the only one taking the dick of the company is the ones that actually purchased the game.

    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,809
    Originally posted by Hashbrick


     

    Originally posted by sepher


     
     

    What's the point? If you dislike DRM, don't buy games with DRM. Having not bought something because it has DRM or any other reason though cannot become a reason for a person to steal it instead.

    I buy croutons that come in those nice rippable bags rather than the cereal-type boxes, but that wouldn't give me justification to start stealing the ones in packages I don't like.

    There's plenty of products we don't buy for simple reasons as not liking how its packaged, or how its handled, but we don't start immediately stealing it and feel justified about it.

    There's not buying a product for a reason, and then there's being a thief. Being a thief is the reason you wouldn't buy a product, there's no middle-man reason such as DRM that can be used to explain becoming a thief.

     

    You are comparing apples to oranges. When you have to buy your croutons and then bring them home, get on the internet to type in your "unlocking key" then punch that in the device on the bag to open the contents then you can fuckin talk.

    Your logic fails on the level of the actual discussion. It's not about "thieves" (I guarantee you listened to an mp3 you were not entitled to, you hypocrite) but about the whole system as a whole. It made honest customers have to deal with more bullshit. Online activation is one thing, but constantly having to be online to play a single player game is absolute bullshit and if you don't see that then you need to take of those rose colored glasses and realize the only one taking the dick of the company is the ones that actually purchased the game.

     



     

    So then by your logic and his example, it would be ok to steal the croutons that had that protection because you didn't like it and knew you could break the protection anyways.

    In any case you are right in that most of us have downloaded something that we didn't pay for at one time or another. Doesn't mean we have to keep doing it. I don't like the idea that a program would require you to be bound to the internet any more than the next person but that doesn't mean that I should then go stealing it.

    Of course where my moral gray area comes in would be to buy the product and then get a hack to make it so that I could play it offline.




  • neonakaneonaka Member UncommonPosts: 779

    This entire discussion is stupid. This is all anyone needs to see in regards to legal purchase vs piracy. It also applies to anything on the market software wise be it Macromedia suite, Assassins Creed 2, or a Teletubbies DVD.

     

    Joe Smoe is sitting on his couch and has to make a decision.

     

    Option 1: Do I go out and BUY said media given the fact that I will have to

    a. Pay anywhere from 49.99 to 499.99 for said product.

    b. Have to deal with DRM countermeasures that might mess up my computer, limit my installs, make sure I am always connected to the internet, ect.

    c. restricted use, as in cd's can be scratched or lost.

    Option 2. Do I go on www.freemediatorrentsrus.com (made up) and just grab the game or software and have to face.

    a. Paying nothing for the game because it is free.

    b. Have to deal with no DRM, just install it and never have to worry about anything ever again except kicking back in my pc chair and enjoying the game or software.

    c. unrestricted use

     

    I mean I do not know about any of you but Joe Smoe would be pretty damn dumb to pick option 1 when he also has option 2. I would venture to say 9 out of 10 he will choose option 2.

     

    You see, people assume that the majority of people are born thieves, when in reality it's the minority of people who are born thieves.

    Here is the scenario.

    We will take a normal department store. Now lets say that this store has Zero protection, it has no cameras, and no guards, no anything of any sort to stop thieves, and the employees have been instructed not to pursue a thief even if they have been spotted stealing.

    Alright inside the store we have 100 customers, and of these 100 customers 10 are thieves and 90 are legit customers looking to spend money. Do those 10 thieves steal and walk out of the store? Yes they do, but the store also sold 90 products to the legit customers.

    Flipped

    We have 100 customers, and of these 100 customers 90 are thieves and 10 are legit customers looking to spend money. Do those 90 thieves steal and walk out of the store? Yes they do, but the store also sold 10 products to the legit customers.

    Which of these scenarios are closer to real life though. It is the first one, I know when I walk into Macy's at my local mall that the 100 or so people around me, aren't looking to snatch a shirt and run out of the store, maybe 1 or 2 of them are, but the other 98 are there to shop legitely.

    Consumers of the gaming world need to be treated with the same respect, drop the DRM see if your game still sells. It will, we have already seen games such as borderlands sell tons of copies, with no protection at all. As would be the case with most games. You will always have thieves, so why push anti-theft on legitimate customers? Pirates aren't even bothering with these features, noone is suffering to these countermeasures except those paying customers that you are hoping buy your game legit. Which in turn just deters them from actually spending their money and pushes them towards Joe Smoe's option 2.

    Anyway, DRM doesn't do anything, just waste time and pisses off paying customers. Stop using it and I bet you still sell a ton of games. Maybe not as much as you like, but they will sell. My reply to that would be make better games, if a game is good enough, the masses will run to it regardless.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    I honestly cannot imagine why anyone would support DRM.

    Before I say anything else let me say that I am not advocating or supporting piracy.

    That said...

    1) DRM diminishes software performance, accessibility, and even presents a potential risk in destabilizing or damaging certain systems for legitimate users.

    2) The effectiveness of DRM in preventing unauthorized content use has been shown to be extremely limited. The main reason for this being that it only takes one person to crack said DRM which can then be proliferated worldwide.

    3) The cost of developing or licensing third party DRM to bundle with software is passed onto the consumer, raising the price for legitimate purchasers.

     

    So essentially legitimate users pay more for software with diminished capacity, while illegitimate users are not deterred for more than a very brief period of time.

    I will not be purchasing any UbiSoft games with this method of DRM, because it is unreasonable.

  • danJ188danJ188 Member Posts: 56

    DRM is a awful way to stop pirates, and only increases the chance of hacks being created for that security in that game. I will side with the pirates simply because gaming companies should not try to dictate on what terms their games are being played against paying customers. DRM only hurts paying customers. That's just the plain truth of it.



    Ubisoft was, and will continue to be nothing but a thug in the gaming industry, and only egg these people on and hurt the entire gaming community for their own misguided quest for "Security."

     

    Benjamin Franklin said it best.



    "Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."

     

    You simply cannot have a fair game expirence when you punish everyone for the crimes of a few.

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