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My Review of EQ2 - The "Re-balancing" Act of a Closed Community

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Comments

  • AldrethAldreth Member UncommonPosts: 79

    Neither of my characters got horses, let alone steroid buffed multi plat horses. But hey, now that its fair and your leaving, can I have your gold?

    Don't get excited about a tax cut. It's like a mugger giving you back fare for a taxi.

  • RazorbackRazorback Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 5,253

     

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    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • sygmassygmas Member Posts: 949


    Originally posted by BarryManilow
    Oh boo hoo, you are complaining that your 20th level spell ( horse) got nerfed and its unfair? Well think about this that spell was really meant to be an entertainment spell or fluff effect. Is it fair that you get access to a horse at 20th leve that was better then them alot of store bought horses that cost Platinum pieces, while everyone else got basically useless fluff spells?

    It was about time paladins got that nerfed, because it was way overpowered. Think it was a problem when more then half the tanks in game were paladins because they had access to a free horse on steriods.

    I've never played EQ2 so forgive the noobdom, but what advantage does a horse provide?

    EDIT: Besides of course ease of transportation :P

    image

  • RazorbackRazorback Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 5,253

    As someone else pointed out. Summoned horse like that of the Pally and Shadow Knight were only ever meant to be graphical additions that provided no real benefit.

    The horses that you can buy (any character) are quite expensive and do provide a benefit in terms of increased run speed, I also recall readng somewhere that certain attacks get a slight bonus from horse back for some warrior types.

    Being a ranger I havnt bothered getting a horse yet as I have a run speed buff and I am never normally in that much of a hurry to get anywhere.

    The original posters gripe is valid, its pretty typical of SOE to move the goal posts halfway through the match but in fairness they never intended summoned mounts to provide the kind of major bonuses that they gave them before the patch and that was always stated.

    <no superhero (lmao) Im not responding to your nitwit remarks sorry to disapoint, you make a big enough fool of yourself without my able assistance>image

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    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
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    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • sygmassygmas Member Posts: 949

    Razor can you fire arrows while on horseback (and use archery specials as a ranger) -- if so, is it advantageous to do so?

    image

  • superhero13superhero13 Member Posts: 170


    Originally posted by Fadeus
    Originally posted by superhero13
    Hmmm. Another fanboi chimes in.The guy has some legitimate gripes and you flame him. That says a LOT about the people he'll be playing with. Way to go.Keep killng 90000 orcs to get that "Pwnmaster of Orcs" title that you think is so ubah.

    oh yes, complete fanboy, how did you find me out so easily? Yep, I didn't buy the game on launch cause I had serious issues with it, went into the game 6 weeks ago with high doubts I would stay and now I am just an avid fanboy. Its getting really easy around here to just coin out fanboy on someone if they say anything to contrite a flamer or another bitch and moan post.


    No...its easy to expose fanboys when they merely defend the game no matter what and dont attempt to empathize with the original poster, nor do they state any of the REAL problems still existing in the game.

    Even-handed posts get my respect. Pure defense posts show fanboy-ism. Period.

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by superhero13
    Originally posted by Fadeus
    Originally posted by superhero13
    Hmmm. Another fanboi chimes in.The guy has some legitimate gripes and you flame him. That says a LOT about the people he'll be playing with. Way to go.Keep killng 90000 orcs to get that "Pwnmaster of Orcs" title that you think is so ubah.

    oh yes, complete fanboy, how did you find me out so easily? Yep, I didn't buy the game on launch cause I had serious issues with it, went into the game 6 weeks ago with high doubts I would stay and now I am just an avid fanboy. Its getting really easy around here to just coin out fanboy on someone if they say anything to contrite a flamer or another bitch and moan post.


    No...its easy to expose fanboys when they merely defend the game no matter what and dont attempt to empathize with the original poster, nor do they state any of the REAL problems still existing in the game.

    Even-handed posts get my respect. Pure defense posts show fanboy-ism. Period.


    You seem to confuse me with someone that wants your respect. Your post was nothing more then inflamatory, I don't see you deeming someone as respected matters in the least bit. As I originally stated, and am stating again, its far to easy to just throw out the word fanboy whenever someone defends against yet another bitch and moan post.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • the_travelerthe_traveler Member Posts: 76



    Originally posted by superhero13




    Originally posted by Fadeus



    Originally posted by superhero13
    Hmmm. Another fanboi chimes in.

    The guy has some legitimate gripes and you flame him. That says a LOT about the people he'll be playing with. Way to go.
    Keep killng 90000 orcs to get that "Pwnmaster of Orcs" title that you think is so ubah.


    oh yes, complete fanboy, how did you find me out so easily? Yep, I didn't buy the game on launch cause I had serious issues with it, went into the game 6 weeks ago with high doubts I would stay and now I am just an avid fanboy. Its getting really easy around here to just coin out fanboy on someone if they say anything to contrite a flamer or another bitch and moan post.


    No...its easy to expose fanboys when they merely defend the game no matter what and dont attempt to empathize with the original poster, nor do they state any of the REAL problems still existing in the game.

    Even-handed posts get my respect. Pure defense posts show fanboy-ism. Period.


    It's a two-way street.  I don't see you empathizing with those that DO enjoy the game, are you?

    And for the love of hypocricy, are you serious?  Even-handed posts, what is even-handed about this post of yours earlier?  lol


    The game is not weighted for casual players and SoE decided to cater to their hardcore crowd...again. ::::26::

    Dont let anyone tell you to cut your rant short...thats what rants are for. It may never reach the ears of an EQ dev, but perhaps it will help someone else realize that the game isnt worth buying.

    EQ2 is a bastardization of what EQ1 was...and pile of lies from the pre-launch marketing machine. They said they would make it more casual player friendly...they didnt. They said they would make it more small guild centered...they didnt.

    Its amazing to me how anyone can be apologist for that game. Even joining crappy ass guilds like Ebonwhore, who might help you slightly, put new members at the bottom of the totem pole so going the guild route isnt sure success by any means.

    EQ2 = waste of time




     

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332

    Traveler,

    Your outlooks I can respect, I don't agree with ya though that EQ II is for hardcore gamers, I have never seen myself as a hardcore gamer, I don't really have the time. But I can beleive EQ II may be to hardcore for you, and I can respect that.

    Can you try to explain to me how you feel its hardcore though? I don't really want to get into the whole deal about broken promise's. I really didn't keep track of EQ II at all past 2002 and then I didn't start following it again until it was released for the most part. I think that was probably greatly to my benefit, I remember what EQ II was ORIGINALLY slated as, and that would be more of a WoW PVP style game, but that was its concept LONG ago.

    My questions are not attempts to change your mind, just trying to figure out what I apparently am not see'ing with the game.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • the_travelerthe_traveler Member Posts: 76



    Originally posted by Fadeus

    Traveler,
    Your outlooks I can respect, I don't agree with ya though that EQ II is for hardcore gamers, I have never seen myself as a hardcore gamer, I don't really have the time. But I can beleive EQ II may be to hardcore for you, and I can respect that.
    Can you try to explain to me how you feel its hardcore though? I don't really want to get into the whole deal about broken promise's. I really didn't keep track of EQ II at all past 2002 and then I didn't start following it again until it was released for the most part. I think that was probably greatly to my benefit, I remember what EQ II was ORIGINALLY slated as, and that would be more of a WoW PVP style game, but that was its concept LONG ago.
    My questions are not attempts to change your mind, just trying to figure out what I apparently am not see'ing with the game.



    I think you intended this post to be for Jeep?  :)  I don't think EQ2 is hardcore.  My biggest gripe, really, is that there is still camping.  Some quests require named stuff that , just like EQ1, must be camped for hours on end to get.  I'd rather have the quest itself be twice as long but be able to continue to advance in it by not having to camp/compete for a spawn.

     


     

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332

    OH! no, I meant it for you but I think the quotes were wrong or I am just being a tard on one cup of coffee.

    Camp, really? I am only 25 so I haven't had to camp anything yet other then waiting for spawn to reroll back through cause I needed more then one wave of a mob type. And I will agree with you completely on camping, it got REALLY REALLY outta hand in EQ 1, and that has been part of pleasure with EQ 2, I haven't seen much of it yet.

    Alright well since it was him that has the issue, I am not gonna worry about it, he seems to have more of an agenda in the EQ II threads he has been trolling lately then actually something intelligable to say.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • IsicIsic Member Posts: 15

    Wauw lets see... I got lv18 in 4 days.. Can anyone tell me what is so damn hard about this game except trying to stay awake???

  • WickesWickes Member UncommonPosts: 749



    Originally posted by Isic

    Wauw lets see... I got lv18 in 4 days.. Can anyone tell me what is so damn hard about this game except trying to stay awake???




    Get over it.  You don't like the game so go play something else.  There's nothing to obsess over and I don't see anyone trying to convince you to stay.

  • the_travelerthe_traveler Member Posts: 76



    Originally posted by Fadeus

    OH! no, I meant it for you but I think the quotes were wrong or I am just being a tard on one cup of coffee.
    Camp, really? I am only 25 so I haven't had to camp anything yet other then waiting for spawn to reroll back through cause I needed more then one wave of a mob type. And I will agree with you completely on camping, it got REALLY REALLY outta hand in EQ 1, and that has been part of pleasure with EQ 2, I haven't seen much of it yet.
    Alright well since it was him that has the issue, I am not gonna worry about it, he seems to have more of an agenda in the EQ II threads he has been trolling lately then actually something intelligable to say.



    Yea, agreed on the agenda thing.  Like I said earlier, people just like to complain and be right.  No no!  2 people can't have different opinions about the same game, someone has to be right! lol 

    The camping isn't too incredibly out of hand, but still annoying.  So far, the longest I had to wait for a spawn was about 2 1/2 hours.  I tried to get another spawn to pop in the RoV but it didn't after about 2 hours, so I'll be trying that again soon. 

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,415

    Being Dumb-downed and Newbie friendly are two different things. EQ2 is far from newbie friendly. Also resulting in why WoW has more then double the amount of subscribers. It has little to nothing to do with the name 'Blizzard'. People understand that to raid you have to group. That's not really an issue. It's when you force people to group just to level up, or complete a quest. That you have issue's. No one likes sitting for 20 to 40 minutes waiting for a group, or hoping they find a group doing the same quest they are.

    EQ2 is definately directed more towards the hardcore gamers. From hunting to crafting to questing. All they really did was make the game a bit less loot centric then EQ1 was. I gurantee you that if they had taken the same approach Blizzard did when creating WoW they would see numbers equal to or greater then WoW. EQ2 is a great game, but there are just too many things in the game that are made overly complicated. In order to keep you playing as long as possible by slowing your progress. For example look at the differences between WoW and EQ2 crafting. As different as night and day, but the results are still the same. WoW takes a 1 + 1 = 2 approach to crafting. While EQ2 does a 1 + 1 - 4 / 3 * 5 (1 * 8) approach.

    I noticed that someone earlier said the game really doesn't get fun till 20. Well my question is.. If it is a game shouldn't it be fun from the start?

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Roin
    Being Dumb-downed and Newbie friendly are two different things. EQ2 is far from newbie friendly. Also resulting in why WoW has more then double the amount of subscribers. It has little to nothing to do with the name 'Blizzard'. People understand that to raid you have to group. That's not really an issue. It's when you force people to group just to level up, or complete a quest. That you have issue's. No one likes sitting for 20 to 40 minutes waiting for a group, or hoping they find a group doing the same quest they are.EQ2 is definately directed more towards the hardcore gamers. From hunting to crafting to questing. All they really did was make the game a bit less loot centric then EQ1 was. I gurantee you that if they had taken the same approach Blizzard did when creating WoW they would see numbers equal to or greater then WoW. EQ2 is a great game, but there are just too many things in the game that are made overly complicated. In order to keep you playing as long as possible by slowing your progress. For example look at the differences between WoW and EQ2 crafting. As different as night and day, but the results are still the same. WoW takes a 1 + 1 = 2 approach to crafting. While EQ2 does a 1 + 1 - 4 / 3 * 5 (1 * 8) approach.I noticed that someone earlier said the game really doesn't get fun till 20. Well my question is.. If it is a game shouldn't it be fun from the start?

    I am not getting how you can say its not newbie friendly. A person that has never played an MMO let alone a computer game can get into EQ II and get a fairly good tutorial on how the basics work pretty simple. What aspect of it do you feel ins't newbie friendly exactly?

    Everquest and Everquest II are built on the table top AD&D adventure party concept, ofcourse you need to group, no one class can do everything, Asheron's Call came up with a solution for that, where you can make uber templates, just like UO, tank mage, everyone had one. While UO and AC are both wonderful games, thats not the concept EQ was designed on, they wanted to get the people that WANTED to be able to group up with their buddies and play AD&D in 3d.

    Could you actually explain what you mean with crafting? I have crafting experience and my girlfriend is around level 25 in it now, she started about 2 weeks ago and has been working at it moderatly since then. What is complex about it to you?

    Crafting was intentionally structured as a main class, that was what most people were begging for during its development, the ability to be a crafter and not crafting just be another ability of your fighter or whatever you had. Crafting was made diverse and dynamic with that in mind, adding buffs to it just like there are buffs in combat, even the ability to die from a bad job at your crafting.

    I agree with you to a degree, EQ II definatly is the most appealing to a hardcore gamer, unfortunately its not a very hardcore game, especially lately with how they are tearing up the game for the solo'ers.


    I noticed that someone earlier said the game really doesn't get fun till 20. Well my question is.. If it is a game shouldn't it be fun from the start?

    It is, its dam fun, when EQ II first came out everyone complained that the game got boring post 20, you apparently are reading the comments now retorting that saying the game really picks up post level 20 when you get access to a ton of new places. The excitement of seeing the recreation of Everquest 1's lands in EQ 2 is really exciting for me atleast, and I am always eager to see the next new place. I am always trying to figure out if this or that was a landmark in EQ 1, like the cemetary that Grimrott spawns in (now in thundering steppes btw).

    Why did you go into a game that IS based on the old table top adventure party concept, expecting to do it alone? EQ 1 was the first D&D Online, EQ II followed in those original conceptual steps, new game, old rules.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by sygmas
    Razor can you fire arrows while on horseback (and use archery specials as a ranger) -- if so, is it advantageous to do so?

    I THINK the answer to that is yes, but I have never actually seen it done. I have seen others do all their combat on horseback however so I don't see why they would limit that.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,415

    Sorry what I meant to say was casual gamer friendly. I think I said newbie because I had just got done play a game of CS:S when I wrote that.::::28::

    What I meant in my reference to crafting was the time it takes to create a final product. Let's take a rune (or is it scroll) of Apprentice Quick Strike II. To make that you need (Going off memory here) Sepia Ink, a Tin Spike, a Lead Ornament, and Fuel.

    To make Sepia Ink you first need Sepia Dye. To make Sepia Dye you must first make something... what was it called. Refined Isoium or something to that affect. Right there you've just wasted anywhere from 5 to maybe 10 mins. That's if you aren't trying make them tier 3 or 4 quality.

    Next the Tin spike. This step isn't so bad. Create a Tin bar then create a Tin spike. That's another 2 or 3 minutes gone.

    Lead Ornament. First you create a Lead Bar. Then you need to turn that into a Lead Ornament, but wait you can't do that until you make Cholro Wash (or Resin can't remember which is required). You see where I'm going with this? EQ2 seems to be (at least to me) more about pretty graphics and tedium.

    It's the same way with questing. If i'm doing a quest to help better my rogue. Why do I need to bring 5 of my closest friends along with me? If the quest is about bettering myself. Shouldn't it be something based around the skills I have available to myself? Shouldn't it require me to use my own wits and skills.

    Don't get me wrong. I think EQ2 and WoW are both good games. Just that neither has done nothing to earn the title of 'Next Generation' MMO. I admit I cut Blizzard a little more slack because they have never claimed their title to be the 'next big thing'. (At least to my knowledge) Where as I always had hear SOE ads about EQ2 being the sequel to the critically acclaimed EQ1. Currently I don't play either of them. Because of the been there done that feel I get from both.

    I have high hopes for some of the MMO's due out in 2005/2006. Even though it seems that we will be just getting more of the same. Now I pose this question to you. If you as a developer. Have faith in your games content. Do you really need to make leveling tedious? Do you really need to go out of your way to put time sinks into your game?

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,415

    [quote]Originally posted by Fadeus


    I noticed that someone earlier said the game really doesn't get fun till 20. Well my question is.. If it is a game shouldn't it be fun from the start?

    It is, its dam fun, when EQ II first came out everyone complained that the game got boring post 20, you apparently are reading the comments now retorting that saying the game really picks up post level 20 when you get access to a ton of new places. The excitement of seeing the recreation of Everquest 1's lands in EQ 2 is really exciting for me atleast, and I am always eager to see the next new place. I am always trying to figure out if this or that was a landmark in EQ 1, like the cemetary that Grimrott spawns in (now in thundering steppes btw).

    Why did you go into a game that IS based on the old table top adventure party concept, expecting to do it alone? EQ 1 was the first D&D Online, EQ II followed in those original conceptual steps, new game, old rules.[/b][/quote]

    I'm not saying the game before 20 isn't fun. Actually the most fun I had playing EQ2 was from 1 to 20. As I could hop on solo a bit, and actually see progress being made. By time I hit 21 I no longer felt the need to even log on anymore and resulted in me cancelling.

    I think a game should be fun from beginning to the very end. I hear alot of people say it's an MMO you are supposed to group. I want to know where this flawed logic comes from. MMO has nothing to do with grouping. It's a reference to how many people are contained with one persistent world. There is absolutely no reason why soloing shouldn't be as viable advancement option outside of High End Dungeions and Raid Content.

    Yes EQ2 and EQ1 are based on butcher'd AD&D ruleset, but EQ1/2 are not AD&D. Some very fun and creative AD&D Campaigns are based around 1 to 4 man groups. In AD&D it's not so much about the encounter as it is the adventure and the story you live during the campaign.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • RazorbackRazorback Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 5,253

    Sygmas- You can fire arrows from horseback but you have to be stationary. There is no shooting and moving as such although the line is so fin as long as you stand still for the instant you hit the button you can actually get moving again while the arrows are flying.

    EQ2 has all but eliminated "kiting". If you move to far in any direction away from your target you will get a message saying "this enemy will no longer give any exp or rewards". You can get round this a little by running in a fairly tight circle. But kiting as we know it is so painful and slow its basically not worth the trouble.

    All of that and more are mainly why I never bothered getting a mount. Thats aside from the fact that even at L35 I have yet to have more than about 25g to my name. Weaponsmithing keeps me permenantly broke, mainly because its such a broken tradeskill in relation to dropped weapons being so easy to get.

    So to anyone who wants to call me "fanboi" just ask me about anything wrong with EQ2 and Ill gladly tell you. Its not perfect by any means, in fact some of the changes from EQ1 are so blatently designed as time and money sinks Im surprised it doesnt upset me more than it already does.

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • NoubourneNoubourne Member Posts: 349

    rofl level 20.

    OMG TWO WHOLE WEEKS!!

    You should see about getting a lawyer, perhaps you can sue them for wasting your time.

    Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain

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