Pre-order on principle!

stav1 · February 2005

I've pre-ordered Mourning for the following reasons:

1. I think it will be a great game with some unique features and cool PvP.

2. I want to support a small dev team against the comglomerates that produce WoW and EQ2. To me the huge production spend of WoW and EQ2 to do the same old thing as every other first generation mmorpg is proof that big companies do not make innovative games.

3. If for any reason the game sucks then quite honestly i'll quit and the purchase price is really an insignificant amount.

To me the benefits that Mourning can bring to mmorpgs far outweigh the risks.

Arcarius · February 2005

1. I think it will be a great game with some unique features and cool PvP.

Hee hee hee. I thought that too, but reality tells me otherwise.

2. I want to support a small dev team against the comglomerates that produce WoW and EQ2. To me the huge production spend of WoW and EQ2

Yes, because corporations are the bane of society.

same old thing as every other first generation mmorpg is proof that big companies do not make innovative games.

"First generation" MMORPGs were nothing like EQ2 or WoW.

How about Ultima Online. Almost everything in Mourning is like Ultima Online - fame system, combat, skills (if I'm interpretting it right, because next to no information is posted on it in the first place), etc.

3. If for any reason the game sucks then quite honestly i'll quit and the purchase price is really an insignificant amount.

Yea, but you know, if you opened your eyes, you might realize that you could save $29.99 on a game you probably won't be able to log into for the first few weeks, if at all.

30,000 people signed up for beta, 4,000 slots. Where, exactly, are the customers going to go upon release?

Scaris · February 2005

Corporations are the bane of society? Oh how I would love to hear you explain that one sometime.

Arcarius · February 2005

...
Sarcasm.

Scaris · February 2005

ahhhhhhhh, hard to tell here sometimes. My bad! ::::01::

Arcarius · February 2005

No problem

Mhorham · February 2005

And I have not preordered do to this simple fact.

Don't buy anything sight unseen.

The fact that they are basicly only allowing preorder people to open beta likely meens they got a real stinker on thier hands. 2000 people per server, what crap. Obviously the world is the size of a postage stamp.

Shrubber · February 2005

Originally posted by stav1
I've pre-ordered Mourning for the following reasons:
1. I think it will be a great game with some unique features and cool PvP.
2. I want to support a small dev team against the comglomerates that produce WoW and EQ2. To me the huge production spend of WoW and EQ2 to do the same old thing as every other first generation mmorpg is proof that big companies do not make innovative games.
3. If for any reason the game sucks then quite honestly i'll quit and the purchase price is really an insignificant amount.
To me the benefits that Mourning can bring to mmorpgs far outweigh the risks.

ROFL....

1. People can promise you anything, tomorrow I can promise you a game with great pvp too- does that make it true? There is very little real info, very few screenshots(many changed), the graphics I have seen look like there from the late 90s, no beta impressions, and cheap ass movies. And you believe these guys?

2. .....big companies dont make innovative games lol. The publisher doesnt make the game my friend. Lets see, we have half life and half life 2(Sierra publisher), Sims(EA), the first EQ(SOE), and Kotor 1(Lucas Arts). Very few if any come from small companies anymore. Remember the studio might be small, but they use a big publisher to get there game out. But for one min, lets talk about this "good, small, and comglomerate busting" dev team. This deve team like to run a nazi patrol on there forum board, banning people for saying anything they feel is anti-mourning(normally just questioning development) or have some personal thing againist. They treat members horribly and act like they are Gods. After this run in, they feel the need to post your IP address so that everyone can hack you. Would I take a "big, evil, comglomerates" professional dev team or the "good, small, and comglomerate busting" un-professional IP-posting dev team. Give me a break...

3. I see we just have money to throw around......

stav1 · February 2005

i never used the term "big evil" conglomerate.

What i meant was that in a business sense, very large businesses are usually slower to react to change in the market place and are more risk adverse. Just like SOE and Blizzard etc. To me EQ2 and WoW are definitely first generation games, in the sense of mmorpg gameplay. If you disagree i'd certainly like to know why.

Therefore its the smaller designer/inventor (whatever) that can sometimes think out of the box. Look at Dyson that is a case in point. Oh and EQ was designed by Verant and Half-life2 isn't innovative.

However i really don't care who provides a more interesting mmorpg experience - big company or small - i will applaud whoever it is. I support Mourning partly to encourage the big companies to start producing more innovative games.

The fact that Mourning builds upon UO to create something different to the cookie-cutter mmorpgs is worthy of applause. I think the game will deliver - it may or may not. Indeed none of you can say with certainty at this stage whether it will be succesful or not. Your lack of coherent argument is a testament to your stupidity, however i do welcome any slightly intelligent arguments that go beyond "mourning sucks" or "mourning is a scam".

DerfelCadarn · February 2005

hmmm... strav1 didnt seem to answer any of the question in the last post, about a crappy dev team or lack of info. God knows its fun to insult people that dont agree with you. Shurbber never said that "mourning sucks", if all your post is strav is a "testament to your stupidity".

necbone · February 2005

i vote nay to pre ordering this...i guess i'm not a preordering kind of guy....and this is a product not to preorder(seems shady); why would they ban people for canceling their preorders?

Mhorham · February 2005

Originally posted by stav1

However i really don't care who provides a more interesting mmorpg experience - big company or small - i will applaud whoever it is. I support Mourning partly to encourage the big companies to start producing more innovative games.

Yep that a good statment. However small companies are at a disadvantage on atlest these two areas:

Software development. These guys built thier own engine and is going to be full problems. The guy who built the graphics engine for Mourning already started a new one. That tells me this one is sub par and probly not good enough for the level of gameplay we have comet to expect.

Customer support: I really dont need to go into this much. Its evedint that Limitless Horizons has zero customer support and is from all i can tell only a shell name. I cant find any actual info weather this company actuly exists like a business address or anything. But the real proof on how bad this is working out is the present state of the community. That will not change. They will have just as much trouble once they TRY to launch the game as they do now. Its going to be the same people because its the same company. That level of community support will just not cut it.

Razorback · February 2005

Stav I am in the last weeks of development of my MMO called "Hero Dragon Elf Heroic Realm of Valour" We will be going open beta next week. I will do you a special deal on a pre-order for just $89.95

Send me your credit card details and I will send you a beta copy.... honest

whiplash · February 2005

2000 players a server. That must be some small zones. I think I will just wait for DnL.

stav1 · February 2005

Of course a big company will be better place to make any game, any mmorpg, innovative or not.

However as can be seen from WoW and EQ2 big companies don't want to take the risk of producing something innovative that is an unknown - they have shareholders to answer to.

Mourning may face problems in customer support and its graphics engine (although graphics look pretty damn nice)- but we don't know that yet.

Therefore i support Mourning because they are doing something different and taking that risk.

To be clear 2000 people per server is for open beta only. Devs can obviously increase that number for retail.

PS. There have been many stupid posts in the Mourning forums about scams etc- its obvious from doing a little research that Mourning is NOT a scam- if you insist on posting this then you are definitely retarded.

Razorback · February 2005

Well its weird isnt it... in fact its a lot like the bible..... I have read a LOT about Mourning, pretty much everything I can find. Nothing I have read would make me want to pre-order it. Anymore than anything I have read in the bible makes me want to beleive in god. But plenty of people see that one differently to. Thats the beauty of life really isnt it... how boring would it be if we all agreed on everything

I agree 100% that Mourning has some excellent ideas and inivotions that if they come off would make an excellent game. All I have been saying all the way along is that the way the forums are going and the gereral lack of any recent movie or gameplay screens makes me think that release is further off than the devs are saying. That being the case I will wait till this one hits the shelves and maybe even till MMORPG do a review before I get my credit card out.

If that makes me a prick, or L33T or somehow infringes someone elses self esteem (it must coz some of you are getting upset for some reason) then Ill just have to wear that I guess

whiplash · February 2005

Stav1

If they are only allowing 2000 people per server during beta, then that leads me to believe that their is going to be server stablity (sp) issues when the game goes live.

Arcarius · February 2005

To be clear 2000 people per server is for open beta only. Devs can obviously increase that number for retail.

You're a retard.

Open beta = stress test.

The devs DONT EVEN SAY THEY CAN INCREASE THAT CAPACITY.

Where do you think you can just assume they can?

People these days... THINK before you assume. You put far too much stock in the Mourning dev team, where it is not warranted or deserved.

stav1 · February 2005

Just to prove i'm not a retard(!):

1. I doubt there will ever be more than 8000 plp playing Mourning

2. If you read all the posts on the Mouring forums you'd see that there are beta testers and others who have talked to the devs who are saying that the servers can take more than 2000 ppl per server. And the devs basically imply that by saying its 2000 ppl just for the OB.

3. Think before i assume? Aren't we all thinking and assuming contemporaneously on this subject simply because we don't have any facts.

Razorback · February 2005

Originally posted by stav1

and assuming contemporaneously on this subject simply because we don't have any facts.

True.... but not all of us are reaching into our wallets on the strength of it.

Hey look at it this way... we are more than a bit concerned for your cash. If we really didnt give a crap about our fellow gamers losing their hard earned.... we would just wish you luck. But I for one think the industry can do without people losing money on failed projects so I try to council some caution... for what its worth......

As I have said before I hope this game is everything it claims to be. I will be buying it the day it hits the shelves..

stav1 · February 2005

I do appreciate the concern about my cash

But that was the point of this thread- would you risk that amount of cash to support a game that says it will innovate but there is no way of verifying its claims?

Personally i have (obviously) said yes.

happydan20 · March 2005

Normally a pre order is a way of ensuring that you will get a copy of a game, it helps the distributors get the right amount of product where it needs to go.

In an MMORPG it's a little different, with all the digital downloading there are enough virtual copies to go around (in this case at least).

A preorder is a free ticket into beta (usually), and most importantly it is a vote of confidence. I think that is the real issue here. Those who are confident in this game are preordering it, those who aren't are not.

I have particular disdain for mournings preorder policy, because if you cancel a preorder, they ban you. An MMORPG preorder is not a right its a privilege, we consumers should be given a choice. Mourning seems to be saying if you don't have total faith in the almost nothing we have shown you, we don't want you... If your faith waivers (you cancel), ye shall be cast out!

This is NOT how an MMORPG is run, before a game is released it's like a political campaign... you better be kissing babies and shaking hands! Someone cancels a preorder, you just smile wider and welcome them to purchase the game when it goes live.

To slam the door on future customers is like ignoring voters before the ballots are cast. Mourning isn't going to win any funding from me.

A preorder on principle policy, to me, is like saying that everyone who claims to have a surefire deal deserves investing into.

MY alternate view of this reality is if your pulling a scam or trying to release a smelly piece of crap... remove all naysayers. The people who have a preorder have a little faith invested. Whenever you put something into an idea you want to it come to be, you are more likely to swallow the company line.

If at any time you begin to feel insecure, all you have to do is head on over to the mourning forum and get wrapped into the cocoon of people who are huddling together... hoping for the best, and your faith is restored.

I can't go into details due to confidentiality but my work often places me in the position to hear stories involving investor frauds, I hear the slick stories and witness the slick social engineering.. I've seen men in business suits cry.

The activities that the developers of mourning are engaging in sound far too familiar.

HOWEVER, this could be because they aren't intelligent in a public relations sense... Not that they have dishonest intent, to be fair.

I think I've made my opinion clear.

WoWisLEET · March 2005

Originally posted by happydan20

Normally a pre order is a way of ensuring that you will get a copy of a game, it helps the distributors get the right amount of product where it needs to go.
In an MMORPG it's a little different, with all the digital downloading there are enough virtual copies to go around (in this case at least).
A preorder is a free ticket into beta (usually), and most importantly it is a vote of confidence. I think that is the real issue here. Those who are confident in this game are preordering it, those who aren't are not.
I have particular disdain for mournings preorder policy, because if you cancel a preorder, they ban you. An MMORPG preorder is not a right its a privilege, we consumers should be given a choice. Mourning seems to be saying if you don't have total faith in the almost nothing we have shown you, we don't want you... If your faith waivers (you cancel), ye shall be cast out!
This is NOT how an MMORPG is run, before a game is released it's like a political campaign... you better be kissing babies and shaking hands! Someone cancels a preorder, you just smile wider and welcome them to purchase the game when it goes live.
To slam the door on future customers is like ignoring voters before the ballots are cast. Mourning isn't going to win any funding from me.
A preorder on principle policy, to me, is like saying that everyone who claims to have a surefire deal deserves investing into.
MY alternate view of this reality is if your pulling a scam or trying to release a smelly piece of crap... remove all naysayers. The people who have a preorder have a little faith invested. Whenever you put something into an idea you want to it come to be, you are more likely to swallow the company line.
If at any time you begin to feel insecure, all you have to do is head on over to the mourning forum and get wrapped into the cocoon of people who are huddling together... hoping for the best, and your faith is restored.
I can't go into details due to confidentiality but my work often places me in the position to hear stories involving investor frauds, I hear the slick stories and witness the slick social engineering.. I've seen men in business suits cry.
The activities that the developers of mourning are engaging in sound far too familiar.
HOWEVER, this could be because they aren't intelligent in a public relations sense... Not that they have dishonest intent, to be fair.
I think I've made my opinion clear.

Alot of us on the forums have canceled our pre-order, yet we were not banned. Only a few people who spammed the forums and canceled their orders were banned, some of them were banned prior to canceling their pre-order.

happydan20 · March 2005

I appreciate you pointing that out to me, i've heard from many sources (granted by that I mean fellow posters), that they were banning those who canceled.

If this is not the case I appologizing for discussing something that is incorrect.

I myself do visit the site from time to time but I have not personally preordered so that was, of course, not firsthand knowledge or anything.

I also appreciate the manner in which you told me, it could have involved a lot more vindictiveness or immaturity.

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