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General: Four Signs Your Guild Isn't For You
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
After looking many times for a guild to call his own, our own Bill Murphy offers some tips on how to know if your guild just isn't going to work out for you.
Finding the right guild in any MMO, unless you happen to be in one that carries over from game to game, can be a long and arduous process. The right mix of people and priorities among each player is a careful balance that more often than not leads to implosion and guild dissolution rather than success. Before co-founding "The Casualties of War" just in time for Warhammer Online's launch, I'd personally bounced around a metric ton of guilds trying to find the right one for me. And in each one, I found at least one reason to move on to greener pastures.
Sometimes that reason was appallingly obvious, and sometimes it was bittersweet because I found myself leaving a quality guild because of some irreconcilable difference... yes, I just used a divorce term when writing about guild relations. But that's really what finding a guild is like. It's a marriage between you, your gaming ideals, and the people that share them. With that in mind, here's a list of signs that your current guild may not be right for you. And yes, these have all happened to me, in some form or another.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
I liked #3. That is my main problem when finding a guild for me. So far, I can honestly say, it only happened twice and, in both occasions, it wasnt even mmorpgs. The first was a clan for America's Army, where we truly were a big family, no exaggeration there. The second time was my Guild Wars' guild which, I might add, I am still a member of today.
Its hard to find a nice guild.
Oh, and by the way, #4 almost made me choke on my coffee
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I haven't found a guild in any game that I have stayed in for more than a week. It all comes down to maturity level. My 9 yr old has more maturity than most who I see in guilds so I just don't bother.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Two things have me hitting the Leave guild/corp/clan button instantly.
If the people in it dont chat and if they spend all their time doing solo work in game.
I join guilds/corps/clans to play with people, to chat and relate to people not look at my self spamm the chat box and have people solo all day.
Why bother?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Good article, I've experienced every one of those situations and left for the same reason. I could add a couple.
5) You have a complaint about how something is managed in the guild and rather than open a discussion over them you are told by the leaders "if you don't like it, you are free to leave." Has happened to me several times (no, I wasn't being an arse, just voicing my opinions) and I couldn't find the drop guild button quick enough.
6) The guilds goals diverge from yours. In a game like EVE there's a lot to do (despite what some folks think) and I've not found a single corp that was great at all of them.
While many excel in 0.0 warfare, some prefer to do small gang roams and others fly in huge capital fleets of hundreds. Some corps are empire based mercenaries, others industrialists, others miners others are masters of wormholes.
I've tended to join corps in EVE based on my current area of interest in the game. Last fall it was wormholes so I joined a corp that was good at running them. (the PVE side anyways).
But this spring I decided my PVP expertise wasn't where it needed to be, especially with regards to small roaming gangs and soloing so I joined a pvp training corp and have learned more in the past week than I did the past year. (because that's all we do is run pvp ops). Still much more to learn, and I'm sure one day I'll move on to a more permanant pvp experience.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree with the majority of these, good article.
And is it just me, or do must Guild Leaders that are striving to accomplish something come off as tyrants. I remember in WoW, I was part of a guild called WOW CRUSADERS. Well, our Guild Leader was pretty much in control of everything, I remember doing AN with four guildies and a single pug, our GL was in the group and told us to ninja the pug's loot if it dropped, that is, unless he joined.
Honestly don't know why I stayed... oh right, technically he introduced me to raiding and endgame...
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
Hmm.... I usually fit in with all guilds as long as their members are not touchy about themselves. I hate people who are fixed on some ideology or who try to stay politically correct about everything.
Hitler has teamspeak!? WHAT THATS A 50DKP MINUS! WTF! More dots anyone?!
I agree with alot of these. Considering Im a foul mouth person I can feel you on the PG guild. I felt out of place when I was swearing up a storm or trying to be comical. No thanks to FPS Games for bringing out my rage.
I actually prefer guilds that stick with ideologies and who are respectful to their fellow players and who are also polite.
I tend to prefer guilds who have older players, usually career minded people and/or who are players with families.
I think that is the great thing and also the important thing about the guild systems, you have to find the right group for you or else
"you're gonna have a bad time".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I feel them all. When we first began in WoW it was on a trial account which in just a few days became an account. The problem came with we didn't get to choose our server it was chosen for us(my hubby & me) and it was an Australian server. So the times were a problem for me to be able to raid. My husband was able to work around them as he is disable and can't work. Me on the other hand could not so I missed all the fun raiding of Vanilla and BC. After three years I said I have to change to an American based server. I just didn't even have to desire to max level my character because I didn't see the point in it. Alts I had but none to max what would the point have been? I mean they would not have been geared to do any of the fun places anyway. By this time the time difference was getting to my hubby as well so he started creating toons on different servers and checking out guild web sites. The move was made and the guild search was again on. We loved the peeps on the Aussie server and are still in contact with some. One even comes to visit us and we consider him a very good friend. It wasn't the people or guild it was the time difference.
In our move the first guild turned out to be not what we thought so we moved on and so on till we are now in a very nice guild that fits us both. But for me finding a guild was hard because I had no raid exp so I was allowed to join as a family member. I also didn't move my main to start I moved an alt. I really then got into a role I found was not for me so I chose my second alt which was the one I really enjoyed to play. So things like that play a big role in the game as well. However, I now have raid exp in WotLK and have geared up to fit into the raiding part.
Having a minor son that also plays I can understand the PG thing. He is in a guild other than ours as the one we are in is 18 and over. But he hears things in real life and comes to us when he doesn't understand or wonders what is being said. For those that don't want the language there are filters but there are also the "Family Guilds" so yea that is the place to be for those that don't want to see it in chat.
I was also in EQ in a hard core raiding guild that had your #4 in it as well. Moved on to another hard core guild that handled it more maturely. However, it tends to burn you out over time. My choice now is more of a semi raiding. Raiding three or four nights a week and the rest of the time to do other stuff. I don't get involved in chat too much or even talk a lot on vent but I have my moments from time to time after I have gotten the feel of the group and such.
Gikku
I feel the same in all cases, when I found Old Timers guild it was to good to be true. The only thing that we require is that you have to be 25+ in age. I know there is alot of grief about age restrictions but it works really well for us and we have all types of players so its easy to find members with the same play styles through about 10- 15 different mmos. The idea was to create an enviroment were adults can enjoy their gaming without having to be screeched at by an over caffeinated 12 yr militaristic elitist jerk (which in one guild that actually happened to me).
I've been with this guild for 5 years now and I doubt I'll ever leave.
motto: "Laid back, not so seriuos, all about the fun"
Other things that bug me about guilds is:
Forced grouping/raiding, if I only have an hour or 2 I can't commit to raiding that much.
Military style guilds. Where if you want to talk to the guild leader you have to send 10 messages to the chain of command before your granted an audience.
Subscription memberships: You have to pay $50 to be an elite member. /cough....(Goon Squad) or your just canon fodder.
Required equipment/gear: If you don't have the atleast tier 6 epic gear then your crap and you can't join this guild of elitist.
Collector of old minis.
Playing WAR:Age of Rekoning
www.oldtimersguild.com
Good post. I've been doing MMO's for many years and run across all of these. I don't swear overly much, but I have a very "strong" personality and have fun afoul of this many times.
One thing I'd add...bigger is never better. Logically, one might thing "bigger means more people to play with!" I've been in multiple huge guilds, the largest being a 500 person (capped) guild in a 3,000 person alliance. There are many problems with guilds that big:
1. Cliques. Humans aren't meant to gather that large, so they subdivide up into cliques. This is especially true in WoW-like games where Blizz forces you to divide up into 5, 10, and 25 man groups. You'll be sitting in /guild, hearing the tales of the cool 10-man groups in your guild when all you can do is beg to be an alt in one of the lower tier ones. It's not that you suck, but these 10 guys have been grouping together forever, are friends, etc. They don't need you and don't need to swap folks out, there are plenty of others in the guild for you to group with. The larger the guild is, the more likely the cliques are solidly built in, and the only people who are not in a clique are you (because you're new) and all the other folks who are not in cliques...for a reason.
2. Getting lost. Unless you're an extroverted ass (like me) it's hard to be heard/seen/noticed in a guild that big. You're sitting in /guild and there's more chatter there than in the barrens. You need a 5 man to do this mission but everyone seems so busy doing other things. At some point the bigger guilds aren't much different than just being out in /general, you still are surrounded by people but can't find a group.
3. Personalities. Guilds don't get this big without a relatively open door policy. When a guild is small, the motiviations of the people are often similar, because they're all close. The further out the friend of a friend of a friend tree you go, the more likely you'll get wild cards and obnoxious people. In the huge guild I was in, you pretty much had to stab the guild master in the eye while raping her dog before you got the boot, so there was no getting rid of the obnoxious folks. So again, /guild becomes like /general, with asshats you want nothing to do with.
4. Personality conflicts. OK, so you're not an ass, and you've found a group that doesn't have asses in it. But there are 2 people in your group that simply do not get along, and everytime you raid something happens and they start fighting. They're good raiders, solid players, and individually they're great people to be with, but get them together and the sparks fly. And they each have friends in the group so asking one to leave will split the group in half. So do you raid and deal with it, or do you break the group apart and reform, hard feelings all over the place? This was the straw on the camel's back for me in my last guild. Sitting every week in raids, listening to them bicker, drove me to drink.
Finding a guild that you fit with is hard. And sadly, guilds are (at least for me) most often the reason I continue playing a game. When I shook off this big guild, WoW went with it. I'd done everything so all there was left to do was raid, and raiding had become a job so the only thing that made it palatable was having people to do it with. I tried changing servers/ guilds but I fell afoul of the "being a cog" syndrome more often than not. You see a great recruitment post, join the guild, and find out that you're 3rd alternate who has to sit online for 4 hours outside the zone on the off chance you get to raid and don't get any loot while the "evaluate" you. I'm a grown ass man, I don't need to be "evaluated".
Good post.
I agree completely with the four points.
One I would add guilds where the rules are firmly stated and followed, except with the guild leader's 'cousin'... actually had that happen twice in guilds I have joined. First one was need before greed guild, where the guild leader's family member rolled need on pob items completely different then their class as they needed the money. Second one was very similar story.
The second point - about feeling like a peon - is so true. But it's actually worse. You can join a raid guild, show up for every raid on time and prepared, know the fights, perform your class role, not be greedy about loot, and the guild leader and officers will notice, right? They will take an interest if you never get any loot, surely? Many times, no. So a correlary to #2 is, if you feel like you are being exploited for the benefit of a select few, yeah, you probably are.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I like the article, I have been around mmo's since they started, I think I have encountered every one of those.
I always try to find a guild that does stuff togehter as a guild, it is hard these days, becuase of this new "I want to solo everything" trend in mmo's these days, I play mmo's for the social aspect and doing stuff with others that are out to have fun. I went through a ton of guilds in EQ2, to the point I was wondering if I was the problem ,as the new guy I always offered my help to get out there and meet the other guildies, some guild are so tight with thier cliches that the new guy never gets a chance.. I left EQ2, moved on to LOTRO, I found a prtety good guild, been with them since beta of lotro, and they are a multi game guild so I pretty much have a home when I want to try out other games.. Good guilds are out there, it does take some time to find the right one..:)
l
i've seen the old timer's guild members around different games and if it wasn't for me running with some game friends from back "way when" I would have applied.
The age restriction was actually plus for me as well as the laid back attitude.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
#1 is my most hated things about guilds. I usually play games at night time, when everyone else is sleeping. I have to keep the sound low, and above all else, not say a word. I can't play with guilds that require teamspeak, simply because I can't talk myself, and I have to turn up the sound to hear anyone else, and as such I wake everyone else up. Then because of this, I cannot communicate at all with anyone because they are all using teamspeak, so they ignore all guild chat. To top it off, you have, just like in the example, the idiots who curse ALL the time left and right for no reason, and simply make your ears bleed listening to them.
If a guild requires Teamspeak, I leave. Period. It's okay to ask if people have it and use it if a good amount do, but requiring it is stupid, and ignoring people because they choose not to use it for whatever reason is even more so.
---
This is but a brief parting.
i've seen the old timer's guild members around different games and if it wasn't for me running with some game friends from back "way when" I would have applied.
The age restriction was actually plus for me as well as the laid back attitude.
Yeah, I would have applied myself to Old Timers since I more than qualify (ahem) but I usually game with my son who's 17 and they make no exceptions to the policy. I understand why, but I think I might have had some fun with them, esp in LotRO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Where I have a big issue is when there is one person that makes their personal goals in a game the Guild's goals. Thus, if one does not jump on the bandwagon and do what they want, one is not loyal to the Guild. It is more that I am just not loyal to self-serving jerks. What makes it even worse is when this person is managing from the bottom up. They act like they are in charge, but insist they are not.
I did just leave a Guild based on someone like this. Everytime a new game came out, this person would jump right in there and take charge, telling everyone what they were suppose to do... which was usually supporting this person's game play. I would cringe everytime I saw this person post of come online. I finally had enough and left. Unfortunately, I left a lot of good people behind... which is really the downside of something like this.
Perhaps this falls in reason #2. The most common problem I found with guilds is that you are only really there to serve a small core group of members in the guild. Usually the leader and 2 or 3 of his/her pals. If they need something you are their best pal... if you need something they are always 'busy'. I ran into that over and over.
I tried many guilds and never found one I where I felt I belonged. Sadly I gave up trying.
I had this problem when I was playing WoW. Guild that raids at the wrong time, guilds that are too big for their own good. Guild that are composed of a clique of friends. It gotten so bad I basically gave up playing WoW coz I can't find a guild that is suitable for me. Hell I looked and look and even transfer servers like 3-4 times just for a guild that sounded right (chances are like 8 out of 10 times it won't work out well). I think game encounters should be designed to be flexible to the number of players that attempt it instead of the other way around (where they enforce exacting numbers). That is one of WoW's main weakness.
I remember years ago that i totally was against the guild system,i felt it had no design,just a heap of junk setup that would not help the game community.Many years later i still feel it is not designed properly.
I am no longer totally against it,but what i have seen from guild leaders is just bad,VERY few deserve to be running a guild.Last i played FFXI about 8 months ago,i ran into a Linkshell,and incredibly the best leader i have ever seen.Every single day he logged in he addressed ALL the players and wanted to make sure everyone had direction and had a chance to join in to get things done.originally when i joined i just thought he was like all the others a leader trying to invite anyone and everyone to build numbers,with no meaning.
This is the huge problem with guilds,the leaders,99.9% of them should not be guild leaders,they do not care about the players and the guild ,they only care about selfish reasons.If you are going to start recruiting 100 players,then you better make sure you are ready to address those 100 players.If you are only able to handle a small guild,nothing wrong with that at all,just make sure you address the players needs and what each should do for each other and the guild.
You want to know what i am seeing in guilds right now?nothing more than a chat room,players constantly congratulate each other every time they gain a level,is that why we join a guild?The leader should pop into the guild and say hello,what do we need done today?Look over the players,maybe the players do not understand or know what they should be doing to be a MEMBER of the guild.A guild is not a solo hangout to yell DING level 30...grats grats.We need some better leaders and better guild structures to make them anything worthwhile,otherwise they are just a glorified chat room.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have had issues with all four examples over the years.
#4 Divergent Time zones and play styles is actually number one on the list for me. I cant tell you the number of times I stepped into the middle of an down unger guild because I like to play way late at night sometimes or earl in the morning. I live in central time zone and that makes it hard some guild are either west coast or east coast.
#3 Folks don't get me, oh well. More like I don't get them. Sometimes mature does not exactly mean mature. Some guilds call them selves that you get in guild chat and ever few words is the fbomb or dude or something like that.
#1 Hitler he he omg I will call him that for sure. We had this raid leader in LOTRO his name was Saber**, he was also the guild leader. We were running vm. I decided after 5 weeks of trying to kill the big squid it was not worth it, and dropped from the raid, well sab**** called me at home, and called me on my cell phone, texted me, emailed me. So forth and so on, Then he riped my wife a new rear due to it on the ventillo server I pay for. This guy was hitler. I was an officer in this guild and a co guild leader/founder. Me and the wife moved on. Telling Saber** and his love interest Salith** to go take a flying leap off the deep end. I learned after that experiance not to put my phone and email numbers on any guild stuff. I don't mind raiding but when you get harrased like that when you pull out of a raid it goes beyond the point.
After reading through your list of signs, I can't say any relate to me.
My play schedule is some what random, so while I might not see someone in a certain timezone for a week, the next week I might only play during that time.
I don't really care if people get me, this has lead to me getting kicked out of guilds plenty but I typically hang around and keep being me, regardless, if you don't like it, kick me!
I don't mind being a peon, I usually reject positions of responsibility, I'm good at what I do (pvp) most of the time heh, a guild will either realize it or not, it doesn't bother me as long as I get to keep doing it and have fun.
And Finally, I will never join a guild that does not use voice communication, its simply required for successful player vs. player. Although my name isn't Hitler, I've definetly have had my moment, my vent rage, and most others that are hardcore pvpers have as well. When your city, or entire set of gear is at stake, tensions are high on the losing side. Simple enough, give your guildies a break and get over it, then you can hold it over them the next day or upload it to youtube!
My list would be:
1. Similar Interests, IE: Hardcore pvp.
2. Ventrilo/Teamspeak required, I prefer vent, but either one is fine. As someone else posted, he doesn't use voice chat and leaves guilds that ignore him for it, all I can say is this makes me very happy. I wish more people got the clue and did this in some previous guilds I was part of. Only wanting to be in a pvp oriented guild, you cannot be successful w/o voice chat, so this goes back to #1.
3. Friends, I usually play where my friends play, if this means having them join my guild, or in some cases, me joining theirs. This includes RL or just long time internet folk, either way, if I enjoy playing with them and they aren't w/ me then it has to be fixed.
4. That's all I can think of atm, but I will reiterate Similiar interests, aka PvP. If the main point of the guild is not to pvp, or the guild does not at least have a large portion of members that want to pvp, its not for me.
Not to mention the raging egos that this genre can so easily create. While that's great for the e-drama entertainment value, it sucks when you're trying to find a quality guild.
I can't take guilds in MMOs serious anymore. When I was younger I thought they were the most fun aspect of gaming. Although I had played MMOs prior to it, my first guild (allegiance) was in Asheron's Call. In fact I was leveling so quickly in the brutal to level beginning days of AC that I passed even the monarch in levels which led to me taking have the allegiance and making a new one.
I never got into a guild in EQ, but I did in DAoC and WoW, I think WoW might of been my last game to join a guild.
The problem being that guilds take themselves so seriously it becomes a joke that I just can't handle. To me a game is a game, and it's soul purpose is to entertain me and provide me with fun. When guilds start requiring meetings, or certain play times, or certain play amounts then it is just silly. When they have two pages worth of bullet pointed rules it becomes a joke. When they want me to pay a monthly money amount even though I never use any items from the guild chests, it is silly.
Then you get the guys in "positions" in guilds who think they're a military leader or a boss and try to order people around, it's a game I'm not going to take orders from another player, ever. If I'm in a guild and a person tells me I have to go do something I'll likely quit right there. But at the same time I'm the type of person who, when in a guild, will spend all day helping people get through quests that no longer benefit me in anyway. And the type of person who will have a character of each class to make sure I can help people through quests with what they need.
I just find it hard to take guilds seriously anymore, it might be that I'm also not as hardcore as I used to be. I used to game everyday, I'd play FPS games in clans on ladder sites (TWL and CAL, I actually miss those days they were a blast.). I used to power game MMOs to get to max level and dominated PvP, but now a days I play purely to have fun and relax. It seems few guilds are that light on the MMO they play.
But maybe when the next big MMO comes along I can find an interesting guild there.