Well, it's not unlogical most players get bored with whatever they are playing after - say - a few years of playing. The trick is that those quitting players should be replaced by new players. Getting new players will probably get much harder when most people inclined to try it have already done so.
Magic:The Gathering is a lot less popular nowadays than it was - say - 10 years ago.
So some people are proclaiming how they dislike WoW on forums? That is hardly a very solid base for making serious predictions. For most people here it seem to be all wishy washy "I don't like it so I'm sure it must be going down". Wanting something to be true is not a very strong starting point, not is it very interesting when presented as predictions. There has been lots of threads about WoW not growing in 2009, yet noone has tried to face up to the problems of the financial resesion nor the troubles WoW has had in China. In a year where the industry is losing, status quo isn't all that bad. Certainly a good analysis would have to at least touch by the other possible reasons for 2009 being a slow year. The big question though is and remains how Cataclysm does and that remains to be seen. Loke666 raises a valid point about competition in 2011. I do have my doubts as we've heard that one before, it might finally strike true. Again, we'll have to wait, though. So I guess what I'm saying is that we do not have the information to make these predictions. As such I find most of the threads to this effect a bit silly, it's more what people want to happen than what there is good reason to expect.
Edit: Oh I thought I should mention my doubts as to SW:TOR. I hope I'm wrong, but they way I see it Bioware as a developer are good at storytelling. Gameplay wise their games are decent, but not great. SW:TOR seems to follow the mold as such (though it's hard to say anything about the gameplay without having tried it). That leaves the question if the game will have the longevity of a more gameplay focused game made by a developer more renowned for good and addictive gameplay. I simply doubt that voiceacting will keep it going that long, though I really do hope I'm wrong.
Let's see what predictor Loke666 wrote in .... 2007 when he talks about the future WOW killers ... in 2007:
"Wow will lose players to those games because right now there isn't much competion. Blizzard will be forced to restructure the game a lot and add more content. They will also have to buff up the graphic a lot. If Blizzard spend some of the kazillion money they gotten they can still be the leading game in a few years but eventually every great game declines.
My guess would be a million players by 2010 unless they make a really big change and then 100K by 2015../ ... GW2 (sic) will be free and that might put a new standard."
And a little bit further:
"My worst fear (sic) is that most of the brilliant programmers of blizzard has quit and they might become another EA, the 3 next coming games tare just follow ups off old games "
His WOW predictions were about 1200%(!) off for 2010. How far can someone be wrong and maintain that same compulsive theory with a straight face for around 3 years now .....
Even with the exact same arguments of names, games and quitting developpers.
Edit: I'll put in my two cents worth of prediction: in what I saw the last year in changes to the core mechanics of WOW, someone at Blizzard HQ's is quite awake these days and it looks as if the 1 billion dollars stream is only now beginning to put the steam on it.
The launch of Cata is no longer the hampered WOW launch of 2004. That's my catch.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I tried to be positive about the game many times. I bought the BC expansion and actually enjoyed leveling up through that. The new areas actually felt new and exciting. I didn't get bored until I hit 70 and started grinding arcane tomes to get reputation for items. I went into WotLK with the same attitude but after getting to Grizzly Hills I felt the game was SSDD. I played very casually but the game felt like it was throwing empty quests at me and I didn't feel a connection to the game world like I did with BC. The entire continent of Northrend felt like they just threw it together. In the BC every place felt connected in some way.
I just couldn't deal with the item/rep farming, it felt like a single player console rpg and I was getting close to the end. I tried doing alt characters but I would quickly get burned out by the time they were around level 50.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
But is WoW in a doom & gloom state where it's losing so many players that it actually looked like a nose dive sort of downhill? Heck no.
It's sorta human nature to want to see the biggest game, the biggest company, the #1 fall. So I suppose this isn't too surprising seeing this sort of threads pop up every week. Oh and p.s. this sort of threads have been popping up since before Burning Crusades came out.
When Cataclysm launches, you can bet there will be plenty of people going back to the game, with plenty of new players as Blizzard is smart at one thing....marketing. Advertising is something other gaming companies don't do, it's why this game still has this many players 6 years into its lifespan. Even if the game doesn't grow as fast as it used to, nor should anybody expect it to 6 years after release, it is still the biggest game on the market in NA.
IMO, a game that draws you back multiple times, keeps you occupied for more than a few months, can't really be a bad game. You may want to dislike it for whatever personal or philosophical reasons. But the very fact that many people do go back to it multiple times and enjoy it for multiple months at a time means it's a decent enough game for them to spend their money & time in. I guess people need to ask themselves... are you really playing any single games out there for more than a few months at a time? Or are you jumping from game to game, because perhaps it's just you and not the games that are the problem?
you people are just realizing this now? Basically WoW is losing the old school players, and the community is getting replaced by people who, for them, is their first mmo experience. So yeah, out with the skilled, in with the noobs. It's what happens when a game does everything a community whines about and ends up pretty much just handing everything to the player on easy mode.
From all of the negative talk about Warcraft,its seems that the game is lacking alot and players are starting to just quit.The game is going Downhill for lots reasons: The gameplay is boring or needs to be improved,The game it self says its massive but where the heck is everyone? It seems like the game was fun in the past,But have they gone to far?-Will the New Expansion fix theses problems?-and what will the future hold for warcraft?-So will warcraft be worth giving another shot at?
Going down hill? Maybe if you're upside down. I see nothing but blue skies for WoW. What is with these Forums and WoW? Everyone is riding WoW like that ghost-chick on Shutter. Really pathetic. So many people waiting at the bottom of the hill, ready to tear WoW apart when it "Dies". Yet all they do is wait around, muttering "Dumbed down", swaying back and forth like zombies waiting for a fresh brain to pop out from a Mall. Makes this fox sick to his stomach!
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
I took the 10 days trial a fews days ago and rolled a rogue gnome, i was pretty impressed for the first 15 levels, very good graphics, interface, decent mob level outdoors so I was pretty happy.
Once I hit 15 I used the Dungeon Finder Tool, then ..... it went all downhill in less than 15 minutes
First, after reading the manual and seeing that dungeons were full of elites mobs ( dragons icon near their names) , I was all excited to enter the dungeon. What they call dungeons in WoW is simply a total zerg fest where no tactics or skills is required.
Its a total mess, the supposedly rare loot ( blue name ) drops like candies, people leaves group at any times without even a warning or good bye. Basically a dungeon runs is done in 15 minutes, and people jump from instance to another one all day long, how bad is that.
Short version is : you can all get to 80 , you can all have the best loot even if yo have absolutely no idea how to play , all you have to do is to pay your monthly sub.
This game basically attracts people or teenagers who loves instant gratification. So I asked in the forums if things were different at higher level in terms of dungeons difficulty,, all the people told me it s like this up to 80. everything was zerged.
I have absolutely no idea why people loves games where there is no sense of achievement, because handing loot on a silver plate is just better for the business.
Games like Everquest ( the first) had their share of problems and WoW through better interface and game mechanics solved a lot of these issues but at what price !! I have no idea why people are so enthusiast about a game where there is absolutely no sense of achievement.
For the same reason many unhappy gamers complained about it from the start. It was made for gamers that aren't really gamers. It's for the average consumer.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I took the 10 days trial a fews days ago and rolled a rogue gnome, i was pretty impressed for the first 15 levels, very good graphics, interface, decent mob level outdoors so I was pretty happy. Once I hit 15 I used the Dungeon Finder Tool, then ..... it went all downhill in less than 15 minutes First, after reading the manual and seeing that dungeons were full of elites mobs ( dragons icon near their names) , I was all excited to enter the dungeon. What they call dungeons in WoW is simply a total zerg fest where no tactics or skills is required. Its a total mess, the supposedly rare loot ( blue name ) drops like candies, people leaves group at any times without even a warning or good bye. Basically a dungeon runs is done in 15 minutes, and people jump from instance to another one all day long, how bad is that. Short version is : you can all get to 80 , you can all have the best loot even if yo have absolutely no idea how to play , all you have to do is to pay your monthly sub. This game basically attracts people or teenagers who loves instant gratification. So I asked in the forums if things were different at higher level in terms of dungeons difficulty,, all the people told me it s like this up to 80. everything was zerged. I have absolutely no idea why people loves games where there is no sense of achievement, because handing loot on a silver plate is just better for the business. Games like Everquest ( the first) had their share of problems and WoW through better interface and game mechanics solved a lot of these issues but at what price !! I have no idea why people are so enthusiast about a game where there is absolutely no sense of achievement.
You're to quick to judge. I ran Utguarde Keep(low 70's) last night. It took around 1:15mins to 1:30mins. It was long and it was fun. There was 3 bosses. The first two bosses dropped cloth and the last one mail. Guess what? Im plate. After that long, I didnt get 1 piece of armor. Just becuase 3 blues drop, doesnt mean everyone is going to get upgraded gear. furthermore, you dont always win the roll. This is why its NOT handed to you. Plus 1-60 is lightning fast. My friend who had never played a MMO (aside from Runescape MANY years ago which is waht Runescape Classic is now) got to lvl 45 in like 1 week. However, after 60 it slows down dramatically. Sure everyone can get to cap, but how many can excell past that? Many more then back in vanilla or EQ but still not everyone.
you people are just realizing this now? Basically WoW is losing the old school players, and the community is getting replaced by people who, for them, is their first mmo experience. So yeah, out with the skilled, in with the noobs. It's what happens when a game does everything a community whines about and ends up pretty much just handing everything to the player on easy mode.
Clearly over a long periode some people will quit and new ones start, so this is implicit for any game. The population will be replaced over time. This self congratulatory "old school" thing is a load though. I'm sure patting eachother on the back is nice and all, but that's all it is.
I've played the game since vanilla, some people were really good, alot were poor players. Many poor players came from supposedly "more skilled games" they were still bad, didn't help them one bit, others were really good. It's the same with new players are good, some are bad; just like the old ones. If anything the average skill has gone up a bit as more information became more available and more people got experienced with the game. Feel free to keep flattering eachother, but it is and remains a very empty gesture.
Well all games goes down hill as they age more and more anyways.
I don't agree with this statement at all.
EVE Online for one is an example of a game that just keeps getting better with age, I'm sure there are other examples too.
You are just nitpicking. EVE did get a great boost of player, but so do most games at one point or another, but you can't fight time. Lets see you say EVE get better at better with age after another decade. See, while you can nitpick on my general comment, yours comment is the same way if I cared to nitpick. Except mine actually works when as time goes on, but yours doesn't.
Eve is one of the rare mmorpgs that has shown continual growth throughout it's lifespan. WOW hasn't had any significant growth since 2008 (Blizzard themselves have said the subs have been hovering at 11.5 mil since that time). If this trend continues it's merely a matter of time until WOW actually does start going "downhill", quite literally. Why do you think Blizzard commenced work on a new mmorpg and pulled many of their best WOW staffers to work on it, think about it? They're not morons.
Like UO et al, WOW will "survive" for many years to come, however no game can hold on to the crown forever. The time is near.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Eve is one of the rare mmorpgs that has shown continual growth throughout it's lifespan. WOW hasn't had any significant growth since 2008 (Blizzard themselves have said the subs have been hovering at 11.5 mil since that time). If this trend continues it's merely a matter of time until WOW actually does start going "downhill", quite literally. Why do you think Blizzard commenced work on a new mmorpg and pulled many of their best WOW staffers to work on it, think about it? They're not morons Like UO et al, WOW will "survive" for many years to come, however no game can hold on to the crown forever. The time is near.
That's december 2008 till december 2009, btw.
You know the 2009 year of economic recession, China down for 4 months (June - Sep 2009) ... and a year without an expansion.
Come back when CATA will hit aka WOW 2 which will take the basic numbers as a 3 way rocket launcher... without any competition in sight in 2010. (Where are those WOW killers of 2008 btw ?).
The above has been said about 7000 times to you already, but you just ignore the second sentence as always.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Eve is one of the rare mmorpgs that has shown continual growth throughout it's lifespan. WOW hasn't had any significant growth since 2008 (Blizzard themselves have said the subs have been hovering at 11.5 mil since that time). If this trend continues it's merely a matter of time until WOW actually does start going "downhill", quite literally. Like UO et al, WOW will "survive" for many years to come, however no game can hold on to the crown forever. The time is near.
I think this could be the time WoW starts to go down hill but it depends on a lot of factors. The gaming industry took a big hit in 2009 and is only just starting to recover, WoW had huge problems in China and has yet to release Wrath in China.
I think that all contributed to the plateau in sub numbers. However a lot of people, including you, seem to ignore these facts.
A lot depends on Cataclysm and compeditors. Cataclysm is a fairly big gamble. If done right it will modernize WoW. If done wrong it will be the second coming of the NGE.
As far as it goes the only way I see WoW's growth going down significantly is if Cata is a total flop and/or some of them many high profile releases are actually extremely good.
If Cata is a sucess WoW will likely start growing again. Especially if the next crop of MMO's is as lackluster as the past few years.
Imagine if you will that WoW started it's sub slide downhill. And if it follows the stipulations set forth by past MMOs then that means by the time it reaches the numbers of the next biggest sub based MMO in line (EvE?), everything else would have shut down by then. So you can wave goodbye to EvE, AoC, Aion, LoTRO and any other game released by 2012. I wonder what game will manage to out last WoW when it's in the bracket of subscriptions typical of MMOs?
You guys bitching about if and when WoW will start it's downward spiral of death is equivalent to you thinking the sun will burnout before the candle you're holding in your hands will. Keep thinking that and we'll see who gets burnt first....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
That's december 2008 till december 2009, btw. You know the 2009 year of economic recession, China down for 4 months (June - Sep 2009) ... and a year without an expansion. Come back when CATA will hit aka WOW 2 which will take the basic numbers as a 3 way rocket launcher... without any competition in sight in 2010. (Where are those WOW killers of 2008 btw ?). The above has been said about 7000 times to you already, but you just ignore the second sentence as always.
Wait a minute do I know you? You sound awfully familiar...hmmmm.
I'm not ignoring btw, I just think some people are very full of it.
Anyways, there is only one true WOW killer and it's name is time. Nothing can escape it, not even WOW.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
From all of the negative talk about Warcraft,its seems that the game is lacking alot and players are starting to just quit.The game is going Downhill for lots reasons: The gameplay is boring or needs to be improved,The game it self says its massive but where the heck is everyone? It seems like the game was fun in the past,But have they gone to far?-Will the New Expansion fix theses problems?-and what will the future hold for warcraft?-So will warcraft be worth giving another shot at?
*rolls eyes* been hearing this line for over 4 years now... Did it really require another thread on the heaps of threads that have been claiming for years the WoW is going downhill?
Cheers!
Nuff said, people bring this up every day.
Maybe WoW is going downhill?!?! But hey, they still have top subscribers for any MMO.
Anyways, there is only one true WOW killer and it's name is time. Nothing can escape it, not even WOW.
Very weak argument for a franchise.
Tintin is 102 years old and he's getting his first 3D Spielberg movie in 2011. And I don't follow it exactly, but that plummer is awfully active these days with his hammer.
So "time is relative" when talking about franchises ... Actually, it's not worth waiting for.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
The thing with WoW dieing is that I dont think it really means that other games will grow. Lets say that WoW has 3 mil NA players, probably somewhat close to accurate, Id say 2 out of 3 of those will probably quit the genre when WoW gets stale for them. I dont think WoW attracted the core MMO player.
What exactly is a core mmo player?
This is like saying Call of Duty didn't bring in real FPS players and most will never try another FPS game when they get bored with call of duty whatever.
If someone enjoys first person shooters, then odds are really good they will look for a new shooter game to play when they get bored of their current game.
The difference between the FPS and MMO genre? There are plenty of great shooter games.
MMO players are not genetically different in some way the prevents them from trying other mmos. Would you really have people believe that millions and millions of wow players simply will not try another mmo for no plausible reason?
If there were better games on the market, more people would stick around and play other games. It really is that simple.
Year after year this same post keeps repeating the same tired message and each year there is a new crop of mmo duds. Maybe this year will be different, who knows.
Very weak argument for a franchise. Tintin is 102 years old and he's getting his first 3D Spielberg movie in 2011. And I don't follow it exactly, but that plummer is awfully active these days with his hammer. So "time is relative" when talking about franchises ... Actually, it's not worth waiting for.
You brought it up ---> "... without any competition in sight in 2010. (Where are those WOW killers of 2008 btw ?)." Hence why I said what I said.
The Warcraft franchise may be around for 102 years, but you're a fool if you think the mmorpg will.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Knup42 I took the 10 days trial a fews days ago and rolled a rogue gnome, i was pretty impressed for the first 15 levels, very good graphics, interface, decent mob level outdoors so I was pretty happy. Once I hit 15 I used the Dungeon Finder Tool, then ..... it went all downhill in less than 15 minutes First, after reading the manual and seeing that dungeons were full of elites mobs ( dragons icon near their names) , I was all excited to enter the dungeon. What they call dungeons in WoW is simply a total zerg fest where no tactics or skills is required. Its a total mess, the supposedly rare loot ( blue name ) drops like candies, people leaves group at any times without even a warning or good bye. Basically a dungeon runs is done in 15 minutes, and people jump from instance to another one all day long, how bad is that.
Please name me 1 game that has better, more indepth dungeons at lvl 15. Personally I think the dungeons in WoW are more indepth much early on than any other MMO's out there, including EQ1. However, I can tell you possible problems you bumped into.
1. You used the dungeon finder (great tool isn't it?). When you use the dungeon finder, you are essentially going into an instance with a pickup group. Now, has there been anytime in the past, starting from EQ1 in 1999 to now, that you could guarantee to have a perfect pug 100% of the time? Pugs are pugs, you are bound to get into some bad pugs, just as you have chances at getting with a good pug. So if you use the dungeon finder, know what you are getting yourself into. And there's always a choice to not use the dungeon finder, and find your own friends ingame....like the good 'ol days.
2. Twinks. You may have gotten into an instance with twinked lowbies. They are much stronger and can roll through mobs like there's no tomorrow. Sometimes instances aren't as fun if you have people that are overgeared for the place. But if you do an instance with level appropriate, gear appropriate group, you will find plenty of challenges.
3. Level 15... are you honestly ready to judge a game by what you saw at lvl 15, using a random dungeon finder (pickup groups)?
If you choose to stay with a strong group to roll through instances, then that's your *choice*. You don't have to be with twinks, you don't have to use the dungeon finder, you don't have to go through instances when mobs are green/gray to you.
Speaking of Everquest, I played it for a year last year, and while it was very fun, great for nostalgia, the game is nothing compared to WoW. Most mobs there are tank & spank, talk about easy? You can't kill something? Get some gear and higher AC/HP, voila you can kill them. Instances in WoW have much more character, creativity, and strategy to the fights. You try to tank & spank doing lvl 80 heroic instances with normal geared people, you'll wipe faster than you can say "wow".
Wait a minute do I know you? You sound awfully familiar...hmmmm. I'm not ignoring btw, I just think some people are very full of it. Anyways, there is only one true WOW killer and it's name is time. Nothing can escape it, not even WOW.
The question is how much time? Again as I said in my previous post everything depends on Cataclysm. If it suffeciantly modernizes and updates WoW it could potentually allow it to continue to grow for the forseeable future. On the other hand if it fails to do that WoW's decline will come sooner.
It will happen, it may already be beginning, or this plateau may just be a temporary thing. You don't know, I don't know, Camp1111 dosen't know, no one knows.
(Also don't think I didn't notice how you picked the most logically flawed post to respond to earlier)
The question is how much time? Again as I said in my previous post everything depends on Cataclysm. If it suffeciantly modernizes and updates WoW it could potentually allow it to continue to grow for the forseeable future. On the other hand if it fails to do that WoW's decline will come sooner. It will happen, it may already be beginning, or this plateau may just be a temporary thing. You don't know, I don't know, Camp1111 dosen't know, no one knows. (Also don't think I didn't notice how you picked the most logically flawed post to respond to earlier)
I don't disagree with your posts.
The only concern I have was raised by a previous poster. When WOW does begin winding down, will the majority of fans shift to other mmos, or will they leave the market altogether? I like to think that WOW has brought in new mmo players (myself included) that are here for the stay. I hope I'm not wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
Well, it's not unlogical most players get bored with whatever they are playing after - say - a few years of playing. The trick is that those quitting players should be replaced by new players. Getting new players will probably get much harder when most people inclined to try it have already done so.
Magic:The Gathering is a lot less popular nowadays than it was - say - 10 years ago.
Let's see what predictor Loke666 wrote in .... 2007 when he talks about the future WOW killers ... in 2007:
"Wow will lose players to those games because right now there isn't much competion. Blizzard will be forced to restructure the game a lot and add more content. They will also have to buff up the graphic a lot. If Blizzard spend some of the kazillion money they gotten they can still be the leading game in a few years but eventually every great game declines.
My guess would be a million players by 2010 unless they make a really big change and then 100K by 2015../ ... GW2 (sic) will be free and that might put a new standard."
And a little bit further:
"My worst fear (sic) is that most of the brilliant programmers of blizzard has quit and they might become another EA, the 3 next coming games tare just follow ups off old games "
That was April 2007 ... exactly 3 years ago.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/724170/page/380
His WOW predictions were about 1200%(!) off for 2010. How far can someone be wrong and maintain that same compulsive theory with a straight face for around 3 years now .....
Even with the exact same arguments of names, games and quitting developpers.
Edit: I'll put in my two cents worth of prediction: in what I saw the last year in changes to the core mechanics of WOW, someone at Blizzard HQ's is quite awake these days and it looks as if the 1 billion dollars stream is only now beginning to put the steam on it.
The launch of Cata is no longer the hampered WOW launch of 2004. That's my catch.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I tried to be positive about the game many times. I bought the BC expansion and actually enjoyed leveling up through that. The new areas actually felt new and exciting. I didn't get bored until I hit 70 and started grinding arcane tomes to get reputation for items. I went into WotLK with the same attitude but after getting to Grizzly Hills I felt the game was SSDD. I played very casually but the game felt like it was throwing empty quests at me and I didn't feel a connection to the game world like I did with BC. The entire continent of Northrend felt like they just threw it together. In the BC every place felt connected in some way.
I just couldn't deal with the item/rep farming, it felt like a single player console rpg and I was getting close to the end. I tried doing alt characters but I would quickly get burned out by the time they were around level 50.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Is WoW losing some players? Yes.
But is WoW in a doom & gloom state where it's losing so many players that it actually looked like a nose dive sort of downhill? Heck no.
It's sorta human nature to want to see the biggest game, the biggest company, the #1 fall. So I suppose this isn't too surprising seeing this sort of threads pop up every week. Oh and p.s. this sort of threads have been popping up since before Burning Crusades came out.
When Cataclysm launches, you can bet there will be plenty of people going back to the game, with plenty of new players as Blizzard is smart at one thing....marketing. Advertising is something other gaming companies don't do, it's why this game still has this many players 6 years into its lifespan. Even if the game doesn't grow as fast as it used to, nor should anybody expect it to 6 years after release, it is still the biggest game on the market in NA.
IMO, a game that draws you back multiple times, keeps you occupied for more than a few months, can't really be a bad game. You may want to dislike it for whatever personal or philosophical reasons. But the very fact that many people do go back to it multiple times and enjoy it for multiple months at a time means it's a decent enough game for them to spend their money & time in. I guess people need to ask themselves... are you really playing any single games out there for more than a few months at a time? Or are you jumping from game to game, because perhaps it's just you and not the games that are the problem?
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
you people are just realizing this now? Basically WoW is losing the old school players, and the community is getting replaced by people who, for them, is their first mmo experience. So yeah, out with the skilled, in with the noobs. It's what happens when a game does everything a community whines about and ends up pretty much just handing everything to the player on easy mode.
Going down hill? Maybe if you're upside down. I see nothing but blue skies for WoW. What is with these Forums and WoW? Everyone is riding WoW like that ghost-chick on Shutter. Really pathetic. So many people waiting at the bottom of the hill, ready to tear WoW apart when it "Dies". Yet all they do is wait around, muttering "Dumbed down", swaying back and forth like zombies waiting for a fresh brain to pop out from a Mall. Makes this fox sick to his stomach!
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
So what if WoW is going down hill? WoW can start sliding downhill and keep doing it for years and still be doing better than any other mmo out there
Mr. Bagguns
I took the 10 days trial a fews days ago and rolled a rogue gnome, i was pretty impressed for the first 15 levels, very good graphics, interface, decent mob level outdoors so I was pretty happy.
Once I hit 15 I used the Dungeon Finder Tool, then ..... it went all downhill in less than 15 minutes
First, after reading the manual and seeing that dungeons were full of elites mobs ( dragons icon near their names) , I was all excited to enter the dungeon. What they call dungeons in WoW is simply a total zerg fest where no tactics or skills is required.
Its a total mess, the supposedly rare loot ( blue name ) drops like candies, people leaves group at any times without even a warning or good bye. Basically a dungeon runs is done in 15 minutes, and people jump from instance to another one all day long, how bad is that.
Short version is : you can all get to 80 , you can all have the best loot even if yo have absolutely no idea how to play , all you have to do is to pay your monthly sub.
This game basically attracts people or teenagers who loves instant gratification. So I asked in the forums if things were different at higher level in terms of dungeons difficulty,, all the people told me it s like this up to 80. everything was zerged.
I have absolutely no idea why people loves games where there is no sense of achievement, because handing loot on a silver plate is just better for the business.
Games like Everquest ( the first) had their share of problems and WoW through better interface and game mechanics solved a lot of these issues but at what price !! I have no idea why people are so enthusiast about a game where there is absolutely no sense of achievement.
For the same reason many unhappy gamers complained about it from the start. It was made for gamers that aren't really gamers. It's for the average consumer.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You're to quick to judge. I ran Utguarde Keep(low 70's) last night. It took around 1:15mins to 1:30mins. It was long and it was fun. There was 3 bosses. The first two bosses dropped cloth and the last one mail. Guess what? Im plate. After that long, I didnt get 1 piece of armor. Just becuase 3 blues drop, doesnt mean everyone is going to get upgraded gear. furthermore, you dont always win the roll. This is why its NOT handed to you. Plus 1-60 is lightning fast. My friend who had never played a MMO (aside from Runescape MANY years ago which is waht Runescape Classic is now) got to lvl 45 in like 1 week. However, after 60 it slows down dramatically. Sure everyone can get to cap, but how many can excell past that? Many more then back in vanilla or EQ but still not everyone.
Clearly over a long periode some people will quit and new ones start, so this is implicit for any game. The population will be replaced over time. This self congratulatory "old school" thing is a load though. I'm sure patting eachother on the back is nice and all, but that's all it is.
I've played the game since vanilla, some people were really good, alot were poor players. Many poor players came from supposedly "more skilled games" they were still bad, didn't help them one bit, others were really good. It's the same with new players are good, some are bad; just like the old ones. If anything the average skill has gone up a bit as more information became more available and more people got experienced with the game. Feel free to keep flattering eachother, but it is and remains a very empty gesture.
I don't agree with this statement at all.
EVE Online for one is an example of a game that just keeps getting better with age, I'm sure there are other examples too.
You are just nitpicking. EVE did get a great boost of player, but so do most games at one point or another, but you can't fight time. Lets see you say EVE get better at better with age after another decade. See, while you can nitpick on my general comment, yours comment is the same way if I cared to nitpick. Except mine actually works when as time goes on, but yours doesn't.
Eve is one of the rare mmorpgs that has shown continual growth throughout it's lifespan. WOW hasn't had any significant growth since 2008 (Blizzard themselves have said the subs have been hovering at 11.5 mil since that time). If this trend continues it's merely a matter of time until WOW actually does start going "downhill", quite literally. Why do you think Blizzard commenced work on a new mmorpg and pulled many of their best WOW staffers to work on it, think about it? They're not morons.
Like UO et al, WOW will "survive" for many years to come, however no game can hold on to the crown forever. The time is near.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
.....did you expect this game to go forever?
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
... it will go much longer than you hope for and fear.
)
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
That's december 2008 till december 2009, btw.
You know the 2009 year of economic recession, China down for 4 months (June - Sep 2009) ... and a year without an expansion.
Come back when CATA will hit aka WOW 2 which will take the basic numbers as a 3 way rocket launcher... without any competition in sight in 2010. (Where are those WOW killers of 2008 btw ?).
The above has been said about 7000 times to you already, but you just ignore the second sentence as always.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I think this could be the time WoW starts to go down hill but it depends on a lot of factors. The gaming industry took a big hit in 2009 and is only just starting to recover, WoW had huge problems in China and has yet to release Wrath in China.
I think that all contributed to the plateau in sub numbers. However a lot of people, including you, seem to ignore these facts.
A lot depends on Cataclysm and compeditors. Cataclysm is a fairly big gamble. If done right it will modernize WoW. If done wrong it will be the second coming of the NGE.
As far as it goes the only way I see WoW's growth going down significantly is if Cata is a total flop and/or some of them many high profile releases are actually extremely good.
If Cata is a sucess WoW will likely start growing again. Especially if the next crop of MMO's is as lackluster as the past few years.
Dem hibbies! Dey be wrong!
Imagine if you will that WoW started it's sub slide downhill. And if it follows the stipulations set forth by past MMOs then that means by the time it reaches the numbers of the next biggest sub based MMO in line (EvE?), everything else would have shut down by then. So you can wave goodbye to EvE, AoC, Aion, LoTRO and any other game released by 2012. I wonder what game will manage to out last WoW when it's in the bracket of subscriptions typical of MMOs?
You guys bitching about if and when WoW will start it's downward spiral of death is equivalent to you thinking the sun will burnout before the candle you're holding in your hands will. Keep thinking that and we'll see who gets burnt first....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Wait a minute do I know you? You sound awfully familiar...hmmmm.
I'm not ignoring btw, I just think some people are very full of it.
Anyways, there is only one true WOW killer and it's name is time. Nothing can escape it, not even WOW.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
*rolls eyes* been hearing this line for over 4 years now... Did it really require another thread on the heaps of threads that have been claiming for years the WoW is going downhill?
Cheers!
Nuff said, people bring this up every day.
Maybe WoW is going downhill?!?! But hey, they still have top subscribers for any MMO.
Very weak argument for a franchise.
Tintin is 102 years old and he's getting his first 3D Spielberg movie in 2011. And I don't follow it exactly, but that plummer is awfully active these days with his hammer.
So "time is relative" when talking about franchises ... Actually, it's not worth waiting for.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
What exactly is a core mmo player?
This is like saying Call of Duty didn't bring in real FPS players and most will never try another FPS game when they get bored with call of duty whatever.
If someone enjoys first person shooters, then odds are really good they will look for a new shooter game to play when they get bored of their current game.
The difference between the FPS and MMO genre? There are plenty of great shooter games.
MMO players are not genetically different in some way the prevents them from trying other mmos. Would you really have people believe that millions and millions of wow players simply will not try another mmo for no plausible reason?
If there were better games on the market, more people would stick around and play other games. It really is that simple.
Year after year this same post keeps repeating the same tired message and each year there is a new crop of mmo duds. Maybe this year will be different, who knows.
You brought it up ---> "... without any competition in sight in 2010. (Where are those WOW killers of 2008 btw ?)." Hence why I said what I said.
The Warcraft franchise may be around for 102 years, but you're a fool if you think the mmorpg will.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Please name me 1 game that has better, more indepth dungeons at lvl 15. Personally I think the dungeons in WoW are more indepth much early on than any other MMO's out there, including EQ1. However, I can tell you possible problems you bumped into.
1. You used the dungeon finder (great tool isn't it?). When you use the dungeon finder, you are essentially going into an instance with a pickup group. Now, has there been anytime in the past, starting from EQ1 in 1999 to now, that you could guarantee to have a perfect pug 100% of the time? Pugs are pugs, you are bound to get into some bad pugs, just as you have chances at getting with a good pug. So if you use the dungeon finder, know what you are getting yourself into. And there's always a choice to not use the dungeon finder, and find your own friends ingame....like the good 'ol days.
2. Twinks. You may have gotten into an instance with twinked lowbies. They are much stronger and can roll through mobs like there's no tomorrow. Sometimes instances aren't as fun if you have people that are overgeared for the place. But if you do an instance with level appropriate, gear appropriate group, you will find plenty of challenges.
3. Level 15... are you honestly ready to judge a game by what you saw at lvl 15, using a random dungeon finder (pickup groups)?
If you choose to stay with a strong group to roll through instances, then that's your *choice*. You don't have to be with twinks, you don't have to use the dungeon finder, you don't have to go through instances when mobs are green/gray to you.
Speaking of Everquest, I played it for a year last year, and while it was very fun, great for nostalgia, the game is nothing compared to WoW. Most mobs there are tank & spank, talk about easy? You can't kill something? Get some gear and higher AC/HP, voila you can kill them. Instances in WoW have much more character, creativity, and strategy to the fights. You try to tank & spank doing lvl 80 heroic instances with normal geared people, you'll wipe faster than you can say "wow".
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
The question is how much time? Again as I said in my previous post everything depends on Cataclysm. If it suffeciantly modernizes and updates WoW it could potentually allow it to continue to grow for the forseeable future. On the other hand if it fails to do that WoW's decline will come sooner.
It will happen, it may already be beginning, or this plateau may just be a temporary thing. You don't know, I don't know, Camp1111 dosen't know, no one knows.
(Also don't think I didn't notice how you picked the most logically flawed post to respond to earlier)
Dem hibbies! Dey be wrong!
I don't disagree with your posts.
The only concern I have was raised by a previous poster. When WOW does begin winding down, will the majority of fans shift to other mmos, or will they leave the market altogether? I like to think that WOW has brought in new mmo players (myself included) that are here for the stay. I hope I'm not wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb