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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes: Vanguard Re-Review

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  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Maendauron

    Originally posted by neonwire

    Originally posted by Maendauron

    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    They are like dolls and lifeless with poor animations and the character creation sucks and doesn't really allow for much change. The faces just stare into space constantly and don't have that alive feeling. I also hate the way the bodies are made because they arn't sexy but more like place holder programmer art of someone who doesn't have a clue how to model the human body. Put on top of that the starter rags don't really do anything justice. The animal races are the worst because they are just human bodies with a different texture and no tails...... the face models are naff too. The models need more of an art direction and need to look full of life and something you can care about.
     
    Like Lotro until they fix the character models I could never try the game again.



     

    No game is perfect, are you looking for perfect?  The animations are better than most games and quite beautifully drawn.  If you are looking for something more realistic then you might need to wait for the next generation of games.  They aren't sexy?  Get a girlfriend.......oh my god!

    So what game would you try?  That will be an interesting answer.



     

    Yeah no game is perfect....so....ermrm.....whats your point exactly? He never said that the game had to be perfect. Why are you bashing him for making an honest and critical observation of the game? Stop being so touchy and defensive. Sorry but your response is typical of the Vanguad community in general and ties in perfectly with what Stephanie said about it in her review. Fans of the game just cant accept a single bad word to be said about it even when its a true and constructive comment.

    John Zoids post is absolutely spot on. The character models are one of the worst aspects of Vanguard. They completely clash with the rest of the game which looks rather good. In an mmo its important that the players avatar looks good as the player will be looking at it all the time. Nobody wants an ugly character but unfortunately thats what you get in Vanguard. In fact the models are one of the things which drives people away from playing the game. Its the first thing a new player sees when they log into the game and first impressions count for a lot.

    SOE introduced the new soga models into Everquest 2. They were'nt just slightly altered versions of the previous ones. They were totally new versions and they looked fantastic. They REALLY need to do the same with Vanguard......more so in fact because Vanguards models are much worse than EQ2s original avatars. Unfortunately I doubt this is ever going to happen because I get the impression that it would mess around with the way armour looks when worn. Like John Zoid accurately pointed out, every player model in Vanguard is the same. The only thing that is different is the head. Humans, Goblins, Dwarves, Elves, Wolfmen, Orcs and so on should not have the same anatomy but in Vanguard they do. What makes this even worse is the fact that the anatomy of the duplicated models is totally wrong. Whoever made them really had no idea what they were doing. Compare this to EQ2 where every individual race looks unique and is anatomicly correct.

    If SOE wants more people to come and play Vanguard then they need to totally change those ugly models. By leaving them as they are they are effectively shooting themselves in the foot.  It would be really good if they could make each race look unique (as they should) but failing that they should at the very least fix the anatomy of the body. It really should not be that difficult considering there is effectively only ONE player avatar in the entire game! John Zoid was right about the animal races too. They really do look very stupid indeed. Compare them with the models in EQ2 if you disagree.

    I am currently playing the game and quite liking it BUT those messed up character models are really getting to me. They are a glaring eye sore on what is otherwise a rather good looking game. I am putting effort into overlooking it but many people dont have the patience for it and will simply move on to games where they can create a character that they like.

    Also the Vanguard community in general doesnt help much. It has a reputation for being extremely stuck up and many people refuse to play the game because of this. Its fine to like and support a game you are playing but its another thing to completely dismiss anyone who doesnt sing its praises. You have to accept the fact that Vanguard isnt a very popular game so its obvious that things still need to be improved. People ARE going to talk about these things so it really doesnt help when they get shot down in flames for doing so. In other words.....stop burying your head in the sand and smell the fresh air of reality! This doesnt apply to everyone of course as there are plenty of mature and helpful people in the game.

    Conclusion = Totally replace the character models. Try and make each race look unique if possible. At the very least fix the messed up anatomy (yeah SOE that means employing someone who understands the human form....even if you are going to apply that "human form" to every race in the game) and improve their currently stiff animations. Combat animations are better than before but when they stand still they look stiff as a board (they look like they have a stick shoved up their arses!). Also the faces really need lots of improvement because as John Zoid said they look really plastic and vacant......no life in them at all. Also.......fix those god damn ugly hair styles! Sorry but they look atrocious! Finally the starter gear does look very poor but this isnt so important as you wont keep it for long.

    Do this and more players will come. Ignore the player avatars and Vanguard will simply continue to stagnate.



     

    Firstly it's interesting that you feel the need to defend him.  Secondly I wasn't being touchy about the game.  I enjoy it and play it for what it is.  My response to his post was in fact the point that he made in regard to the character models.  I was asking what games he's been playing that are in fact more realistic?  His point seemed petty and yet all games are lacking in the department of what the characters look like.  So as he was only pointing this out for Vanguard I decided to respond to it.



    That is what a forum is for isn't it?  We are allowed to disagree on points?

    So people only care what avatars look like? Why then do they play LOTRO and WoW?  They aren't any better.



     

    Why is it interesting that I am defending John Zoids post? I'm defending his post because I totally agree with what he said. Yeah certainly we are allowed to disagree on things. These forums wouldnt be interesting otherwise. The thing is thats not quite what you were doing when you responded to John Zoids post. He was pointing out that the avatars in Vanguard are particularly bad and in response you tried dismissing it by saying that no game is perfect......as though you were trying to indicate that avatars in ALL mmos are equally bad......which isnt true. He was talking about avatars and you tried diverting the focus away from that by talking about the game in general......basicly by trying to sweep the games bad points under the carpet as though they dont exist. Yes Vanguard has its good points but unfortunately it is heavily let down by its dreadful avatars.

    What games are more realistic you ask? Well again that isnt what was being discussed. John Zoid and myself were talking about the avatars. The landscapes and lighting are fine. Its those ugly character models which are the problem which many people are well aware of. Loads of people just dont like them and quite rightly. So......what games have better character models? EQ2, WoW, WAR, AoC, DAoC, Ryzom.....even LOTRO.....and plenty of others which I'm sure I have forgotten......all of them have much better character models than Vanguard.

    WoW isnt any better? Sorry but thats not true. The character models in WoW are MUCH better. It uses less polygons and the graphics are inferior and yet it has proper art direction. Its cartoony graphics might not be to everyones liking but its creators have managed to inject life and personality into its avatars. Unfortunately this is totally lacking in Vanguard. They have no soul and look like lifeless dolls with blank vacant stares. SOE need to fix them.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by eburn


     The ugly character models was one of the reasons I couldn't stick with the game before. Are they still rudementary? I thought they were specifically adding new models to the game?



     

    The character models have been improved so they are certainly better than the hideous things you saw when the game launched. Unfortunately they did not add new models to the game but instead tweaked the old ones so they still look pretty weird. They still look stiff as a board and have the same blank lifeless look to them. I would recommend trying out the trial isle so you can see for yourself.

  • MaendauronMaendauron Member Posts: 118

    "EQ2, WoW, WAR, AoC, DAoC, Ryzom.....even LOTRO"

    I have played all those games (except Ryzom) and I completely disagree with you.  The models aren't better in those games at all.  You must be playing a different version of those games than the ones I own.

     

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Maendauron


    "EQ2, WoW, WAR, AoC, DAoC, Ryzom.....even LOTRO"
    I have played all those games (except Ryzom) and I completely disagree with you.  The models aren't better in those games at all.  You must be playing a different version of those games than the ones I own.
     



     

    You think that the character models in Vanguard are equal to in quality or better than all of the other mmos on the market? Then there is nothing more to be said. We will just have to agree to disagree.

  • captsammycaptsammy Member Posts: 17

    If this re-review has you running to re-subscribe, cool your jets. The last patch has the game in the toilet. The lag, hitching and poor performance of days gone past are now back. A simple rollback of the patch would put things right I would geuss, but not only have they not done so, there is no communications from the company on their plans to fix the issue.

     

    http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=44677

  • ougaritougarit Member Posts: 317

    This Re-review looks strange to me because had a free month thx to SOE last december and found the game more bugged than 8 months before . (when I stopped the game, because of his small pop.)



    Found an empty world (outside IOD), and a bugged tchat. (bugged as hell), lag etc. Had terrible pbs with my pet (as it was before GU2) Found a smaller pop than it was when I left it. All my contacts stopped the game 1 month after me, for War or AOC or TCOS.

    I'm downloading the game once more (IOD/free trial) but I'm not sure to subscribe again.

    So I'm giving VG a last chance (last one) ...

     forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m

    Not good...



     

  • ougaritougarit Member Posts: 317

    - I have now a new Char on IOD '(necro), saw players in IOD/ Good

    - Tchat seems to work fine again /Good (it was a nightmare in december.)

    - Quests are good in the IOD, interesting / Good

    - My necro's pet is BUGGY. Buggy at it was before the GU2 . / Bad, very bad. 

    - some mobs disappears on the ground / bad (same old bugs :/ )

     

  • braakbraak Member Posts: 1

    Nice review! 

    I've played Vanguard continuously for about 30 months now (since beta in fall of 2007).  I actually think Vanguard is a great game for a casual player.  Depending on class, you can solo content all the way to level 50 (though playing in a group is more interesting and you'll see the many cool dungeons).  You can also pursue crafting, diplomacy, harvesting and fishing.

    The review suggests that having too many choices is bad for the casual gamer, but I spent pretty much my whole first year just playing solo and had a lot of fun.

    Anyway, I hope there are more reviews like this going forward.  It's a really nice, balanced view of where the game is at today.

  • qombiqombi Member UncommonPosts: 1,170

     They are tacking on real life cash for virtual items on this subcription based game as well, buyer beware. These people are greedy and if you buy into this new practice of greed it will only spread to other games. SOE is known for their greed, let their games fall.

    SOE takes development resources away from developing new expansions and additional included content/bug fixes and puts them to work on more ways to get your dollar such as card games for in game items, real life cash for virtual items, player to player selling of items etc. Don't be fooled this does hurt you as the consumer even if you don't buy the items. Stick with games that provide you all items in the game for your purchase of the game and subscription fee or play free to play games with cash for items .. .NOT BOTH.

  • GGaFxGGaFx Member Posts: 151
    Originally posted by dhayes68


    I've not played V:SOH and don't plan to (I'm sure its a fine game, this is not a hater post) but the article pointed out something that really bugs me in general about the current state of the MMO industry:  Companies release games in pitifully incomplete states and then expect us to pay sub fees while they complete development.  It seems apparent this was the case here and I can tell you it is the case with AoC.
    I'm not talking about bugs.  I mean missing content, incomplete content, and barebones content put in as a place holder until they could put the final ver in. Of course take all of that and factor in that the devs are basically going to be finishing the game in a live environment and you can add an insane amout of often ridiculous bugs as well.
    If this keeps on happening its going to become, if it hasn't already, an industry standard unless players decide to do something about it.  Seems wrong that the players of the first year or two should pay full price to finance continued development of what should be a complete product.
    Personally I won't play any more MMO's unless it comes with a free trial, and the client is free. If they can impress me with that, I'll pay sub fees forever.
     

      

     

    for someone that hasnt played and talking about the content is laughable.  for starters at launch the game had enough content.  example swamp gear, lucent jewelry all at end game and at the time it wasnt easy to get because of timers and the shear amount of faction you had to obtain to even get the next quest or craft the item.  if your complaining about AoC then you should do it on their forums because VG had content for every lvl.  

    the main issue everyone had with this game was the performance and lack off it at launch.

     

    and to say the con about this game is apw or lack of raid content in the current state. is funny as well.  the only instance in the game is apw and is still open to pvp "if your on the FFA server".  another thing it happens to be the biggest dungeon in the whole game at the moment.  not to mention all the raid mobs across the telon world.  there is end game content and 3 spheres to grind out.  there is time to be put into a char.  plus your review you write that your only lvl 44.  pfft you cant even start the quest to get into apw so how would you know about end game content.

     

     

    the vg devs are a little slow with getting new end game content out we all know.  i blame soe for the amount of focus they put in eq2.  put  the AA eq2 has, the amount of raid mobs at almost every tier eq2 has, and the pvp system eq2 has but still FFA.  that would be the recipe for success.

     

    i have 2 50s a lvl 37 crafter and 20 diplo 

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905

    Crack,

    There is no way this game can rate higher then AoC. Not in this lifetime.

    After years of working on it, it still has major performance & technical issues, it's still missing large chunks of content, and it is still a relatively unfocused, dull fantasy grinder that has very little to offer aside from loads of "kill 10 rats". Most of the "content" is on the level of Lineage 2 style grind thats just hidden in a series of really dull uninspired kill this and that task. There is no really difficulty to the game, it is just a simple excersize in grind endurance.

    This site continues to pour out the strangest reviews of any website / professional publication around. They aren't "contiversial", they are just inconsitant and wierd. They beat up one game for techicnal issues (that are minor in comparison) then ignore them in another. (at least where rating is concerned)

    I've played both games extensively in the past and I'm sorry, although Vanguard may have the "potential" to be a great open world fantasy game, it missed the mark by miles. To add insult to injury, it's technical issues will do nothing but frustrate many new users and it's lack of direction and purpose will cause most to just drift away after a month or two.

    But all in all, I think the games actual performance is pretty soundly reflected in it's player populations....empty in all but maybe 2 of its 4 servers.

  • googajoob7googajoob7 Member Posts: 866

    i had such a bad experiance when this game was released it put me off of buying any mmo in its first  months . ( i ll only buy now if i ve played the beta ) . I dont know what its like now i may load it and have a look under the free trial . The landscapes were nice if i recall but the character graphics were horrible .

  • HoobiesHoobies Member Posts: 12

    Question; what single aspect of an MMO do you spend the most amount of time doing? COMBAT....Yet not a single mention of how the pysical act of combat is played in Vanguard and whether its fun. There is an entire section on customer service, yet in 10 years of MMO gaming I have never had to deal with customer service in any game.  

  • AeonicDesignAeonicDesign Member Posts: 3

     Like many of you, I've given VG a number of solid chances. Each time, I have been wildly disappointed in the claims that the game has been “improved” in this way or that. Thanks to the OP’s re-review (and in part because I’m a glutton for punishment) I decided to give it yet another try. IMO nothing could be worse than bastardized, fisher-price, duplo-lego MMO experience that is “World of Worncraft” (Sorry blizzard fanbois, it’s my opinion so don’t get all uppity with me) .

    This latest experience has been a VASTLY different one from all previous chances I’ve given this game. Quests seem fixed for the most part. Most game-stopping bugs (not all) have been patched and the changes to Diplomacy add a great dimension for those that like a bit of diversity in their gameplay.

    The combat? It's fine. What else would you like to hear about it. If it was truly lacking in any way... I'm sure you'd have heard about it by now.

    All of that said: there are still some subtle idiosyncrasies that may annoy a new player. Most of these issues aren’t inherent to Vanguard itself, rather they reflect the trend toward the need for instant gratification that players new to the genre (or hell, even some vets) now demand from their games. There is a lack of online resources. So if you’re a wowhead regular or can’t bear to play the game without “QuestHelper”, you are definitely out of luck in VG.

    Freedom. While everyone claims they want it, when they’re given it, they cry about “lack of direction”. Vanguard is truly a HUGE open world. You have to explore. You have to talk to NPCs and actually <gasp> READ what they have to say. If you run through Vanguard blindly and randomly accepting various quests (ala WoW) during the leveling process, you’re going to miss a GIANT portion of what this game has to offer. So yes, the world will seem empty, lifeless and dull.

    One last thing, for the “Hardcore PvP” poster with the propensity for violence (yes, I’m being facetious). Your battlecry to “take over the community” will likely fall on deaf ears. It’s never really truly been the vision of VG to provide the type of atmosphere you desire. The same “stuck-up” community you claim to despise is the fan base which VG developers are tailoring to. Just as a tip, you might want to check your own “stuck up” attitude at the door before you start pointing fingers. Your post reeked of exactly the type of pretentious self-righteousness you’re accusing the VG community of having. So yah, good luck with your crusade to “take over”, it would in the very least, be amusing to watch you try.

    VG isn’t perfect. Nothing’s perfect. In its present state however it is a gratifying and unique experience for anyone that’s sick of their duplo-legos.

  • smaklagasmaklaga Member UncommonPosts: 48

    I tried it.  Played as one of the wolf-type characters (forgot the name).   Hated the bugs.  Hated the "last-minute-before-beta-we-better-throw-this-thing-together-quickly" feel to it.  Then couple that with the wolf chars all sounding like a bad impression of Cookie Monster, and I had to go away.

    The night sky was beautiful!  That's the only good thing I saw.

     

    If the above has been fixed, I would give it another shot.

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