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SOE wins the day in court against the blind.
JestorRodo
Member UncommonPosts: 2,642
As I predicted and apologized for in an earlier Rodo Report -
http://kotaku.com/5481543/judge-tosses-blind-gamers-suit-vs-sony
In October a visually-impaired gamer sued Sony, alleging that it wasn't fulfilling its responsibilities under U.S. law to provide access to the disabled. The reasoning depending on finding that Sony's products constitute a public accommodation. A judge said they aren't.
Plaintiff Alexander Stern sued Sony, Sony Computer Entertainment America and Sony Online Entertainment in federal court for the Central District of California, alleging that "his visual processing impairments prevent him from fully enjoying the video games manufactured by Sony, some of which are played on gaming systems with internet connections through which players in different locations can communicate and play with or against one another."
The court, in granting Sony's motion to dismiss on Feb. 8, refused to go so far as to say any game Sony currently makes constitutes a public accommodation. A public accommodation doesn't need to be publicly owned -very loosely speaking it can be a grocery store, hotel or office building whose use is generally available to the public. In a broad sense, we were talking about applying that standard to a virtual environment.
So as you can imagine, allowing the suit to proceed on this finding would have wide ramifications for games publishers. Instead, the court found Sony "is not a place of public accommodation," and therefore is not in violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Disabled Gamer's Suit Against Sony Tossed [Game Politics] ENDQUOTE
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Comments
This is the first I've heard of this.
I'm sensitive to people with disabilities and all but how, exactly was Sony supposed to make their games accessible to blind people? They're video games, after all. How do you make video that blind people can enjoy? Are deaf people going to start suing the music industry now?
Weird.
There's a definite void of information here, as to the specific requests and nature of blindness.
Personally I think game makers should all be close-captioning their games for the deaf and providing color-blind options for the color blind. But while these things should happen, I'm not sure I feel they should be legally-enforced.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"Instead, the court found Sony "is not a place of public accommodation,"
I thought that this was common knowledge - Glad its official.
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I remember reading about this on Digg. I'm actually surprised it took this long to get taken care of. *shrug*. I agree; however, that declaring a verdict in favor of the Plaintiff would have changed all MMORPGs, not just those by SoE. In the end, it was a difficult decision, but one that had to be made.
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Only in america.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Had to be made? Why did it have to be made? How about deaf people and CD manufacturers? Does a decision need to be made there as well? This is not the kind of shit the courts should be wasting their time on. Of course in the 9th circus court of California this is not surprising.
Maybe next he can sue the IOC because he wasn't able to enjoy the olympics fully because he couldn't see the events.
Or, he can sue a movie theatre because he wasn't able to enjoy the entire movie because he's blind.
Maybe, he can sue VolksWagon because he's unable to drive their cars safely.
...There are many things to like about the USA, but it's crap like this that wastes our time, taxpayers' money, and the time and money of the companies/individuals being sued for completely ridiculous reasons.
Personally I hope they start passing regulations to make it possible to counter-sue for legal fees when someone with a blatant B.S. case loses like this.
Had to be made? Why did it have to be made? How about deaf people and CD manufacturers? Does a decision need to be made there as well? This is not the kind of shit the courts should be wasting their time on.
I agree that courts shouldn't have to make decisions based on this stuff, but I did not say anywhere in my post that I did agree they should. You are reading too far into it.
What I did say is that in this particular case, the right decision was made. What I also agree with is that there shouldn't have been a case at all.
I'm a fox, not a lawyer.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN, Brigtwulf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it would be different if the tech existed so the blind could see in a video game and SOE simply wasn't using it. Alas it's not the case.
Nub's
I feel for this guy, but sueing the game company isn't the right idea. Maybe he should think of a way to cure blindness.... or invent technology that allows him to play MMOs...
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
I realize a lot of MMO players have opinions about the moral and logical issues of disability rights legislation, but morality is not what changes the laws, political activism is what changes the laws. People with disabilities accomplish things in the legal system because they are singularly dedicated: their lives can be completely dominated by their impairment, and so, in the last 20 years, they have more motivation to fight for what they want than anyone else has motivation to keep fighting against them. It has always been this way, and the new development in the last 30 years is that people with disabilities have become as organized as they are motivated and vocal about their issues.
Disability rights issues are extremely complicated to address morally, but things become more simple if you just look at it from the point of view of democracy: what matters is what people want, not what is "right." That sentence might seem very annoying to some, but as long as we are talking about politics and laws as opposed to academic philosophy, what people want/demand is separate from morality.
My disability is thankfully more mundane than blindness, I just have repetitive stress injuries. This is why I choose to play Champions Online, since it works so well with a controller. Most MMOs are inaccessible to me, as a physical issue (of course I try to setup with external programs and fancy controllers, it's just a delicate balance to find something that is comfortable for my hands for hours at a time). I still enjoy fast paced skill based gaming, but can't play e.g. Darkfall or Global Agenda because they depend too much on mouse aim.
I watched this case carefully, because once accessibility considerations enter MMOs, I will be able to enjoy them much more. I know a lot of people are thinking "ruin my game by watering it down for people with disabilities..." Don't worry, most people with disabilities do not want to intrude or impose any more than they already have to (some think nothing of requesting services with an entitlement attitude, and there will always be those).
In the next 10 years, I only hope to see progress of the following form: if there is something obvious that the devs can do to help disabled players, be it repetitive stress, visual/audio impairment, etc that they include these small features that will make a huge difference in quality of life for these players. In other words, don't make repetitive button mashing required (or allow us to use an auto-bind program if you do), and include video options that put tags above important things (like pressing the Select button in FF7) for people with vision impairments.
In other words, the MMO industry (which is actually the virtual reality industry) is only in its infancy, and for now we can focus on minor improvements that make a world of difference for disabled folks but are hardly noticeable for abled folks. Honestly, the ability to play Champions Online without pain is a really big deal for me, I can't imagine how much it would add to that blind fellows life if he could play EQ2 without constantly being reminded of his disability. Impairments are physical, but they only become disabilities relative to society; humans can adjust completely to a loss of physical function, but most folks can't recover from the social consequences of disability (e.g. wheelchairs are quite pleasant to use, after 2 years you would be suprised at how normal they feel to use, but even after 10 years there is always a sinking feeling when you realize that stairs are required as the only way to get somewhere).
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
This is totally absurd and stupid. There was not even a case to begin with. However, i commend the judge and lawyers for at least entertaining this guy. if it was me i would have told him to never waste my time again.
Just like the other poster said 'only in America'. Suing others is an industry itself.
Being blind is about the worse thing I can think of in the way of a disability. But at the same time, expecting blind people to be able to play video games and the makers of such games to be responsible to make it so is ludicrous. There are some things in this world that some people just cannot do. This case was about what all frivolous suits are about, the money.
I agree it would be different if the guy had come up with a way to make games more accessible to the visually impaired that was cost-effective to game developers.I believe most if not all game developers would embrace such software or make readily adapt their games to such hardware if it didn't hurt their bottom line too much.But as far as I know such software/hardware does not exist and you can't sue a game developer for not doing something that is not currently possible.
I do believe that stories like this from time to time remind the business community that there is a market here thats not being tapped.
Maybe it's not to expensive to help some dissabled to enjoy video games, and if so turn a better profit.
Nub's
It is generally not cost-effective from a logical point of view to build wheelchair accessible ramps, but businesses are forced to do so because of the American's with Disabilities Act. This is why I recommend people to leave logic out, because logic is not the most relevant thing in politics (annoying, I know, but true).
For those who think that the plaintiff has no case, recall that We the people make the laws. The laws are whatever we choose them to be. Certainly after the ADA passed, we all must admit that people with disabilities are a powerful legislative lobby, and over time they are making continual progress on all their demands. I see it as inevitable that eventually MMOs will be legally required to include accessibility features, for better or for worse that is certainly what is going to happen, based on my study of American politics and the Disability Rights Movement.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Good for SOE. The sense of entitlement and need for special treatment by people absolutely astounds me. Don't get me wrong, I feel terrible for people with disabilities, but the ones that believe the rest of the world should make unrealistic accommodations for them are ridiculous.
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Just like when that idiot sued McDonalds because his own dumbass spilled coffee on himself and then sued because it was too hot. Did that fool think it was going to be cold? He probably would have sued if it was.
The stupidity of some people is staggering.
Sympathy does not really have much value. As for requesting unrealistic accomodations, that is a tricky issue. I could not have completed my PhD without permission to use a computer (my RSI is from handwriting), but this significantly compromised the security and format of the exams (me being given additional time to typeset the calculations, in my own private room with no proctor), and it was totally unfair to my classmates. If I had gone through this 20 years earlier, before the ADA, they would not have accomodated me and so I would have been forced to leave the PhD program, which likely would have caused me to spend the rest of my life depressed and not working.
It is impossible to put a price tag on disability accommodations, they can make the difference between whether someone has a life or not, whether they feel like a member of society or not.
Keeping someones body alive is not fun if their mind is not stimulated, and if they have no chance to function in society, to fulfill any role, or to earn respect. Don't just stop at keeping them alive, give them the accomodations so that life is worth living. The physical impairment is nothing, you get used to it, it is the feeling of being outcast of society that is the true problem of being disabled.
Edit: lawsuits and money are not the goal, changing the laws is the goal. I don't support the blind fellow winning a large settlement, and I am not even that bothered by the court decision, as I say the Disability Rights Movement will inevitably win their case in the long term. Mostly I am disappointed by the opinions in this thread, which are not so different from anti-black, anti-female, and anti-gay sentiments that continue to be expressed as those groups gain total acceptance. Disability Rights is more organized and dedicated than any of those groups, it is only a matter of time before the opinions in this thread are considered politically incorrect.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
They should have slapped this guy with a fine for wasting the courts time and public money.
Some people need to learn that they don't need to be accomodated for everywhere. Not everything is about you. I don't complain because I am white and can't get scholarships that are for african americans. (Well I do, but i can't just go create a white only scholarship).
I wonder. Did they expect Sony to invent a direct neural interface? Mind you, I'm in no way against such a thing, and would like to see that technology for when I get older, and no longer have the physical reflexes to enjoy the games that I used to.
In all seriousness though, what accommodation can be made for a blind person to fully enjoy something that is so heavily visually based? More voice acting for quests? That's slowly but surely happening, and SOE actually is pretty much the leader in that field already with EQ2. A constant coordinate feed to a braille system? The combat system would by far be the easiest, since the text output can be easily fed to braille.
An mmo is so much more than just a combat system though. And if you want to get really, really nitpicky, there's literally thousands of text based MUDs still running that are far better suited to accommodating the blind. In fact, I've come across a few before. The best part of a MUD is that it's free. So on top of all that expensive computer equipment, you don't have any extra charge. And you can kill monsters to your heart's delight. Better still, most MUDs have wonderful, creative wizards that have highly descriptive areas well suited to immersing someone into a game without the use of graphics. And since the communities of these games are generally much smaller, you get more of a family atmosphere, and a willingness to work around your disability - something that you'd be hard pressed to find in many larger MMOs.
So until that neural interface is available, it's better off to stick with a medium that has actually accommodated people with disabilities for more than 20 years - MUDs.
The courts are turning into a circus these days with these types of cases.
the way you wrote that, and the way it's commonly retold, it does sound ridiculous. But the person sued, and won, because McDonalds, in an effort for them to save on throwing it away and to keep it hot as long as possible once put in a cup, was keeping the coffee at temperatures 20-30 degrees above what is commonly accepted as fresh coffee temperature, resulting in 3rd degree burns rather than 1st degree burns that would normally result from a spill like that. That "dumbass" was an 81 year old woman by the way, and all she had requested that McD's help with the medical bill from the severe burn and that was it. McD refused, a lawyer started looking into the facts, saw the negligence, saw over 700 previously reported cases that had been reported, and decided he had a case, which I agree with. No, the only dumbass in that case was the corporate head who thought a few hundred dollars for medical bills was a bad idea, and instead opened the can of worms. If you read the actual court case, I think you'd agree, just as a jury of 12 people who had all the facts did.