You jest about a WoW amusement park but I wouldn't be surprised if that happend. If they can make a PotC movie out of the themepark they can certainly do the opposite with WoW. The only difference between camp11111 and Zorn is that zorn used all of those underlines in his posts. Otherwise the style is identical.
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
People are reluctant to leave, because there isn't a compelling reason to leave yet.
^ This. Thread over.
Nope the thread is not over. It's hilarious when people think that they can announce the end of a thread.
You see some people left after learning that WOW wasn't for them, and found that there were other games out there. In fact some people discovered that some of them were indeed far better than WOW.
WOW was a great game, but it is very old and hasn't exactly aged like a fine cheddar. Blizzard has been essentially squeezing the sponge dry for years. This is opposite to the approach that CCP has taken with EVE online, and it has been growing slowly but steadily since 2003. That game is their baby, and it's treated as such. There are plenty of compelling reasons to leave WOW, but just don't hang around because your friends are still playing or if you are using the commonly misguided logic that WOW is the only worthy MMOrpg to have been released since 2004. Don't be another Ostrich with your head in the sand.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm of the opinion that losing their Chinese market would have been the best thing for WoW. As it is now, Blizzard is so far out in the ozone that they could care less what their customer base thinks. They're putting more effort into toys and web gadgets than they are anything really creative in their bread-and-butter. Players running the same tired instances over and over to get gear and making an e-sport out of what was once a vibrant world is sucking the soul out the game. I keep hoping against hope that Blizzard will one day get a real good dose of humility.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
People are reluctant to leave, because there isn't a compelling reason to leave yet.
^ This. Thread over.
Nope the thread is not over. It's hilarious when people think that they can announce the end of a thread.
You see some people left after learning that WOW wasn't for them, and found that there were other games out there. In fact some people discovered that some of them were indeed far better than WOW.
WOW was a great game, but it is very old and hasn't exactly aged like a fine cheddar. Blizzard has been essentially squeezing the sponge dry for years. This is opposite to the approach that CCP has taken with EVE online, and it has been growing slowly but steadily since 2003. That game is their baby, and it's treated as such. There are plenty of compelling reasons to leave WOW, but just don't hang around because your friends are still playing or if you are using the commonly misguided logic that WOW is the only worthy MMOrpg to have been released since 2004. Don't be another Ostrich with your head in the sand.
If wow has the same 3% churn rate that some game developers have stated they have, then you have more people quitting wow each month that most games have in total. If other games cannot capitalize on nearly 350,000 former wow players around the globe looking for a new mmo, then I think it is safe to say there isn't some super keen game that people are missing out on.
What is preventing those other super awesome games from growing with so many people looking for a new mmo?
Ask yourself this. Why do people who are completely burned out on wow chose to rejoin wow after touring other mmos? Why does wow do a better job at attracting burned out wow players than every other game on the market?
Wow has been refining and expanding their game just as ccp has which is why both games are constantly in the running for best this or that and they both continue to grow (maybe wow has reached its peak, but hard to tell with what happened in china.).
People are reluctant to leave, because there isn't a compelling reason to leave yet.
^ This. Thread over.
Nope the thread is not over. It's hilarious when people think that they can announce the end of a thread.
You see some people left after learning that WOW wasn't for them, and found that there were other games out there. In fact some people discovered that some of them were indeed far better than WOW.
WOW was a great game, but it is very old and hasn't exactly aged like a fine cheddar. Blizzard has been essentially squeezing the sponge dry for years. This is opposite to the approach that CCP has taken with EVE online, and it has been growing slowly but steadily since 2003. That game is their baby, and it's treated as such. There are plenty of compelling reasons to leave WOW, but just don't hang around because your friends are still playing or if you are using the commonly misguided logic that WOW is the only worthy MMOrpg to have been released since 2004. Don't be another Ostrich with your head in the sand.
If wow has the same 3% churn rate that some game developers have stated they have, then you have more people quitting wow each month that most games have in total. If other games cannot capitalize on nearly 350,000 former wow players around the globe looking for a new mmo, then I think it is safe to say there isn't some super keen game that people are missing out on.
What is preventing those other super awesome games from growing with so many people looking for a new mmo?
Ask yourself this. Why do people who are completely burned out on wow chose to rejoin wow after touring other mmos? Why does wow do a better job at attracting burned out wow players than every other game on the market?
Wow has been refining and expanding their game just as ccp has which is why both games are constantly in the running for best this or that and they both continue to grow (maybe wow has reached its peak, but hard to tell with what happened in china.).
This is a question that has baffled me for quite sometime. I think it deals more with the mentality of people than with WOW although I havnt really heard anyone say," Im sick of 'game X' but cant find anything else to play" Just seems to be the WOW crowd with this "need" to be subbed to an MMO all the time.
Originally posted by MavisP This is a question that has baffled me for quite sometime. I think it deals more with the mentality of people than with WOW although I havnt really heard anyone say," Im sick of 'game X' but cant find anything else to play" Just seems to be the WOW crowd with this "need" to be subbed to an MMO all the time.
There is nothing really different from people who left UO for EQ. People who left EQ for WoW and people today who are looking to leave wow. People are not leaving, because the next big great game has not arrived yet and the current mmo market is filled with very poorly designed/performing games. It really is that bad.
For most people wow is simply the best game on the market. Even after five years. If any of the recent wow killers had delivered I think we would see a big migration, but that has not happened. In all honestly the last five years has been very disappointing as far as new mmo releases. It has been a virtual graveyard of failures.
We can try to force some psychological reason onto the situation that explains away all the realities of why wow is so dominating, but it doesn't make it so. People are still the same they always have been and the mmo market is in really bad shape if you look at it objectively.
Simply put, other game developers are making it so unbelievably easy for wow to retain players that is astounding that it continues so many years.
Originally posted by MavisP This is a question that has baffled me for quite sometime. I think it deals more with the mentality of people than with WOW although I havnt really heard anyone say," Im sick of 'game X' but cant find anything else to play" Just seems to be the WOW crowd with this "need" to be subbed to an MMO all the time.
There is nothing really different from people who left UO for EQ. People who left EQ for WoW. People are not leaving, because the next big great game has not arrived yet and the current mmo market is filled with very poorly designed/performing games. It really is that bad.
For most people wow is simply the best game on the market. Even after five years. If any of the recent wow killers had delivered I think we would see a big migration, but that has not happened. In all honestly the last five years has been very disappointing as far as new mmo releases. It has been a virtual graveyard of failures.
We can try to force some psychological reason onto the situation that explains away all the realities of why wow is so dominating, but it doesn't make it so. People are still the same they always have been and the mmo market is in really bad shape if you look at it objectively.
Simply put, other game developers are making it so unbelievably easy for wow to retain players that is almost unbelievable that it continues so many years.
I think youve missed my point. It being, if your sick of something why does it need to be replaced before you can leave? Those sick or WOW stay with WOW because they have nowhere else to go? My question was and is, why do these people feel they have to be subbed to an MMO at all times?
Originally posted by MavisP I think youve missed my point. It being, if your sick of something why does it need to be replaced before you can leave? Those sick or WOW stay with WOW because they have nowhere else to go? My question was and is, why do these people feel they have to be subbed to an MMO at all times?
The same thing went on in other mmos as well. Some people just like to be subbed to mmos, some still have some enjoyment of the game, but are interested in a new game if one presented itself (this is where I am) and others return after trying to find a new game to play.
Those that are burned out and return usually don't last long and repeat the cycle. Maybe enjoying some new content or feature, but it doesn't fill the desire for something new so they leave again.
As for your point, I don't think it applies to everyone. I do indeed think many many people have simply left wow instead of migrating to other games, because those other games do not offer a better or even equal experience.
Wow is still a top selling game which we can assume means it is attracting plenty of new people, so it is safe to assume that it is also losing people since there have been no new subscription milestones broken. It is also safe to assume other games are not growing considering the rash of server closures, content cycle reductions and staff cuts.
Out with the old and in with Blizzard's new mmo soon. WoW is old, the people have grown tired of the same old expansions that make all your hard work in the previous version all for nothing. I'm actually more interested in Blizzard's upcoming mmo rather than thinking about coming back for Cataclysm.
Out with the old and in with Blizzard's new mmo soon. WoW is old, the people have grown tired of the same old expansions that make all your hard work in the previous version all for nothing. I'm actually more interested in Blizzard's upcoming mmo rather than thinking about coming back for Cataclysm.
I wonder if Blizzard will make a console version of their next game. I know Xbox tried to get a version of WOW for a long time. It will be interesting to see.
Originally posted by MavisP This is a question that has baffled me for quite sometime. I think it deals more with the mentality of people than with WOW although I havnt really heard anyone say," Im sick of 'game X' but cant find anything else to play" Just seems to be the WOW crowd with this "need" to be subbed to an MMO all the time.
There is nothing really different from people who left UO for EQ. People who left EQ for WoW. People are not leaving, because the next big great game has not arrived yet and the current mmo market is filled with very poorly designed/performing games. It really is that bad.
For most people wow is simply the best game on the market. Even after five years. If any of the recent wow killers had delivered I think we would see a big migration, but that has not happened. In all honestly the last five years has been very disappointing as far as new mmo releases. It has been a virtual graveyard of failures.
We can try to force some psychological reason onto the situation that explains away all the realities of why wow is so dominating, but it doesn't make it so. People are still the same they always have been and the mmo market is in really bad shape if you look at it objectively.
Simply put, other game developers are making it so unbelievably easy for wow to retain players that is almost unbelievable that it continues so many years.
I think youve missed my point. It being, if your sick of something why does it need to be replaced before you can leave? Those sick or WOW stay with WOW because they have nowhere else to go? My question was and is, why do these people feel they have to be subbed to an MMO at all times?
I think you're putting too much thought into it. There is no hard evidence showing that players have a uncontrollable desire to sub to MMOs. These are vapor facts cooked up by those don't have a clue about the mindsets of other players. By the way your statement:
If you're sick of something, why does it need to be replaced before you can leave?
How would anyone know this without being side-by-side with the player as they are looking for another MMO and tracking their financial records? Who's to say players aren't already unsubscribed to their given MMO and now in the process of researching another?
But even if they do buy another MMO, most companies practice the tradition of giving those that buy a copy 1 free month. So technically players are still only subbed to one MMO. But if the teeth of your point is trying to identify why some players may have a addiction-like draw to MMOs and feel the need to constantly play them then you'd need more that a forum full of MMO junkies and a whole lotta research to even begin to understand those urges.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Out with the old and in with Blizzard's new mmo soon. WoW is old, the people have grown tired of the same old expansions that make all your hard work in the previous version all for nothing. I'm actually more interested in Blizzard's upcoming mmo rather than thinking about coming back for Cataclysm.
I wonder if Blizzard will make a console version of their next game. I know Xbox tried to get a version of WOW for a long time. It will be interesting to see.
They want WoW to live forever because it is their bread and butter which I do not blame them. So I would not doubt that their next mmo would have a console version. It would not even suprise me that eventually WoW goes on a console either.
You jest about a WoW amusement park but I wouldn't be surprised if that happend. If they can make a PotC movie out of the themepark they can certainly do the opposite with WoW. The only difference between camp11111 and Zorn is that zorn used all of those underlines in his posts. Otherwise the style is identical.
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
lol yeah I noticed that too . Would'nt be suprised if there is a World of Warcraft 2 one of these days but Cataclysm isn't it .
Out with the old and in with Blizzard's new mmo soon. WoW is old, the people have grown tired of the same old expansions that make all your hard work in the previous version all for nothing. I'm actually more interested in Blizzard's upcoming mmo rather than thinking about coming back for Cataclysm.
The entire point of playing any game is progression. Whether it be to finish the game, reach the level cap, get powerful enough to tackle something you've been meaning to or collecting enough materials to craft that item you was hoping to. Progression IS gaming.
So that underlined statement of yours cannot hold up in any endeavor dictated by time. And as long as time continues to march forward so will we all. Now don't get me wrong, I understand the desire of some players that want to feel on top of the world (in their given MMO) for as long as possible. But that feeling of euphoria only last so long. And then boredom, resentment and desire for something more eventually kicks in. This is when either players find an entirely new game or an expansion is needed.
And just as some players have no problem starting anew in a new MMO, there are those that are not willing to give up 5 years of progress (however slow it may have been) to start over on a completely clean slate. But really, the just of my statement is to serve the purpose of pointing out that expansions (free or paid) are the only way to give new life into older MMOs. They give players who enjoy their MMOs new things to experience. Current trends, new developments and innovative features are introduced with each expansion released under the banner of a well established MMO.
But to say expansions for MMOs have out-used their usefulness is like saying why bother releasing new MMOs. I mean you're gonna throw away months of progress to start from square one anyway right?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
You jest about a WoW amusement park but I wouldn't be surprised if that happend. If they can make a PotC movie out of the themepark they can certainly do the opposite with WoW. The only difference between camp11111 and Zorn is that zorn used all of those underlines in his posts. Otherwise the style is identical.
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
I read that wow 2.0 and thought, wow that sounds familiar. Good catch.
You jest about a WoW amusement park but I wouldn't be surprised if that happend. If they can make a PotC movie out of the themepark they can certainly do the opposite with WoW. The only difference between camp11111 and Zorn is that zorn used all of those underlines in his posts. Otherwise the style is identical.
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
I read that wow 2.0 and thought, wow that sounds familiar. Good catch.
I guess he'll start posting X-Fire links soon again . Sigh .
As I'm sure you know companies are reluctant to publish numbers. Since many in "the public" feel that those numbers are the ones that matter, if you post X subs today and it drops (even slightly) to Y subs next month, you risk people leaving or not starting up. Remember, Aion was out in Asia a year before the western release Q4 09. My point was that WoW is not the only mmo that has subs in the millions. I'll also point out you don't need millions of subs to turn a profit either.
90% of of the friends I had at day one through my 4 years of playing have either quit or found alts and don't want to be known. Looking at warcrafter tells me most of them don't play their mains anymore so MANY abandoned their highest level well geared toons.
As I'm sure you know companies are reluctant to publish numbers. Since many in "the public" feel that those numbers are the ones that matter, if you post X subs today and it drops (even slightly) to Y subs next month, you risk people leaving or not starting up. Remember, Aion was out in Asia a year before the western release Q4 09. My point was that WoW is not the only mmo that has subs in the millions. I'll also point out you don't need millions of subs to turn a profit either.
No where in any of those links you provided say that Aion has 7 million subscribers in Asia alone.
The only link that mentions subscribers is the first one which is a blog quoting another blog that was quoting a sourceless number from IGN.
Next time you are making up complete lies be a little more conservative, they're more believeable that way.
The MMO from Blizzard made 1.25 US billion dollars in 2009, it made 1.2 billion dollars in 2008.
It is clear : the bottom line of subscriptions = money and sheet balances.
The complete group on NCsoft made 160 US million dollars in 2009 of which the majority came from a combined Lineage 1 and Lineage 2. NCsoft is also: Guild Wars, CoH, Aion, L1,L2 and a few others...
52 % of that revenu came from Korea. US and EU hardly made 12% of the complete range of games.
So when the majority of the NCSoft income came from L1+L2: you could deduct that Aion brings in ... around 60 million dollars at the most.
A pretty sum, ... but at least taking the pure financials - Aion has around 20 times less hard cash income than WOW.
Now 1.2 billion dollars is a pretty nice basis to support the thesis of 11.5 million subs worldwide (as the income was consistent throughout the last 3 to 4 years (rising from 800 million to 1.25 billion).
But Aion's estimated $ 60 million income (of which a relaunch of the basic box in the west) hardly supports ANY number into the multi millions.
So that's why NCsoft simply doesn't publish subscription numbers.
Blizzard better step up the item mall stuff if they want to compete with the 65 million playing Farmville.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Didn't you notice: Bli$$ard used to name exactly numbers since Wotlk they're using terms like ABOUT x subs. Also keep in mind that china has been cut off for months and thats where most of their subs are, so thats about - 6,5 -7 million HUGE. Aion took Asia by a storm and is continuing to outnumber Wow overthere.
The Wowfanboys should keep in mind that falling subs can be good. Right now Bli$$ard doesn't need to do anything but once they start to fall drastically (which will happen soon), they gonna need to show some improvements, dedication and love for their game once again. It will be incredible though to accomplish because Bli$$ard always lost all of the great guys and you can't blame them no one wants to mmorpg for a company that lost all its ideals and directly sold to the devils son that is Kotick.
Cataclysm will just be the same old same old. You do know that revamping the old world means also they're destroying it?! No more crossroads, Durotar or Thunderbluff. Most people I talked to don't even notice that wow will get another expansion soon. Back in Vanilla I was a huge fan of the Warcraftstory and sony took EQ 1 down to an easier road so I switched over. The open world and kaplan like endgame raiding were the mains factors for me to play it. Though the raids never ever came close to Everquest 1.
Once Cataclysm is life the following will happen: Some people will try it out rush to 85, maybe participate in now freeloot raids and quit again. At some point you can't reinvent something.
my prediction: World of Warcraft will fall to 8 million at the end of the year. Arthas maybe the famoust NPC lorewise got killed (shame on you Bli$$!) so the game is now over for many many people.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Didn't you notice: Bli$$ard used to name exactly numbers since Wotlk they're using terms like ABOUT x subs. Also keep in mind that china has been cut off for months and thats where most of their subs are, so thats about - 6,5 -7 million HUGE. Aion took Asia by a storm and is continuing to outnumber Wow overthere.
Hasn`t this allready been dealt with? Blizzard have given out numbers for 2009, legaly binding. They remainded at 11,5 M, and claimed to be happ with that given the circumstances, notably the ressession and their problems in China. NCsoft has nto released numbers so we don't know, grandiose claims are fine, but without facts they remain that. It remains to be seen.
The Wowfanboys should keep in mind that falling subs can be good. Right now Bli$$ard doesn't need to do anything but once they start to fall drastically (which will happen soon), they gonna need to show some improvements, dedication and love for their game once again. It will be incredible though to accomplish because Bli$$ard always lost all of the great guys and you can't blame them no one wants to mmorpg for a company that lost all its ideals and directly sold to the devils son that is Kotick.
Clearly if you don't like they can't have any "dedication and love for their game" I'm sorry, but that is bullshit, get over yourself. Some of us genuinely like the game and we have little reason to think blizz doesn't care about it. Happily, we have no reason to fear this nonsense change of yours. There are no indications of these troubles you dream of nor that Blizz would ruin the game to cater for you.
Cataclysm will just be the same old same old. You do know that revamping the old world means also they're destroying it?! No more crossroads, Durotar or Thunderbluff. Most people I talked to don't even notice that wow will get another expansion soon. Back in Vanilla I was a huge fan of the Warcraftstory and sony took EQ 1 down to an easier road so I switched over. The open world and kaplan like endgame raiding were the mains factors for me to play it. Though the raids never ever came close to Everquest 1. Once Cataclysm is life the following will happen: Some people will try it out rush to 85, maybe participate in now freeloot raids and quit again. At some point you can't reinvent something. my prediction: World of Warcraft will fall to 8 million at the end of the year. Arthas maybe the famoust NPC lorewise got killed (shame on you Bli$$!) so the game is now over for many many people.
Cataclysm looks awesome so far, as well as very promising. I don't know who your "most people" are, but Cataclysm is quite sought after and by the time of release it will have been firmly established trough marketing as well as ingame events. Like em or not (I know you don't) Blizzard know what they're doing. Your analysis seems pretty weak to me it doesn't acount for anything, but your own wishful thinking.
As for easy mode raids, sure just like everyone farmed Yogg +0, Firestarter, Anub25h and are now Farming the LKh. You conflate the 1% top raiders with the population. The best of the raid guilds beat the harder bits quite fast, the rest doesn't. After 4 weeks 663 guilds have killed the Lich King on normal 25 man 27641 have killed Marrowgar. So many people going on about "easy content", so few have any reason to talk about it.
As I'm sure you know companies are reluctant to publish numbers. Since many in "the public" feel that those numbers are the ones that matter, if you post X subs today and it drops (even slightly) to Y subs next month, you risk people leaving or not starting up. Remember, Aion was out in Asia a year before the western release Q4 09. My point was that WoW is not the only mmo that has subs in the millions. I'll also point out you don't need millions of subs to turn a profit either.
No where in any of those links you provided say that Aion has 7 million subscribers in Asia alone.
The only link that mentions subscribers is the first one which is a blog quoting another blog that was quoting a sourceless number from IGN.
Next time you are making up complete lies be a little more conservative, they're more believeable that way.
Can't do basic math eh? Plus, it can't be a "complete" lie as I posted some links for your reading. It's not my fault if you were either too lazy or too much in a hurry to read some, admittedly boring, financial reports. A "complete lie" would be 100% fabricated, which according to the links cannot be true.
Sales totals for the year were roughly 35% contributed by Aion and 41% for both Lineage games. Now, the US Aion share is only 12% with 55% coming from Korea. So that means that in Korea there is almost 5 times the subs as there are in the US, roughly speaking since box sales are included in that figure. Aion contributed to 43% of their total sales, but if you just straight divided the sales value by that percentage you wouldn't take into account the number of boxes sold vs subscriptions. The number comes to 18.2 million subs *IF* the game had been given away free, which is not correct. If you took off the 700k boxes sold at/near launch that would drop the total subscription value to 15.8 million, which still seems to be a bit high but not impossible as this game is very big in Asia and less so in the US.
Ok enough numbers it's there if you don't want to believe my "complete lies" after all.
Comments
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
Take that!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was my best impression
Where is Zorn these days anyways, he was awesome?
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
People are reluctant to leave, because there isn't a compelling reason to leave yet.
^ This. Thread over.
Nope the thread is not over. It's hilarious when people think that they can announce the end of a thread.
You see some people left after learning that WOW wasn't for them, and found that there were other games out there. In fact some people discovered that some of them were indeed far better than WOW.
WOW was a great game, but it is very old and hasn't exactly aged like a fine cheddar. Blizzard has been essentially squeezing the sponge dry for years. This is opposite to the approach that CCP has taken with EVE online, and it has been growing slowly but steadily since 2003. That game is their baby, and it's treated as such. There are plenty of compelling reasons to leave WOW, but just don't hang around because your friends are still playing or if you are using the commonly misguided logic that WOW is the only worthy MMOrpg to have been released since 2004. Don't be another Ostrich with your head in the sand.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm of the opinion that losing their Chinese market would have been the best thing for WoW. As it is now, Blizzard is so far out in the ozone that they could care less what their customer base thinks. They're putting more effort into toys and web gadgets than they are anything really creative in their bread-and-butter. Players running the same tired instances over and over to get gear and making an e-sport out of what was once a vibrant world is sucking the soul out the game. I keep hoping against hope that Blizzard will one day get a real good dose of humility.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
People are reluctant to leave, because there isn't a compelling reason to leave yet.
^ This. Thread over.
Nope the thread is not over. It's hilarious when people think that they can announce the end of a thread.
You see some people left after learning that WOW wasn't for them, and found that there were other games out there. In fact some people discovered that some of them were indeed far better than WOW.
WOW was a great game, but it is very old and hasn't exactly aged like a fine cheddar. Blizzard has been essentially squeezing the sponge dry for years. This is opposite to the approach that CCP has taken with EVE online, and it has been growing slowly but steadily since 2003. That game is their baby, and it's treated as such. There are plenty of compelling reasons to leave WOW, but just don't hang around because your friends are still playing or if you are using the commonly misguided logic that WOW is the only worthy MMOrpg to have been released since 2004. Don't be another Ostrich with your head in the sand.
If wow has the same 3% churn rate that some game developers have stated they have, then you have more people quitting wow each month that most games have in total. If other games cannot capitalize on nearly 350,000 former wow players around the globe looking for a new mmo, then I think it is safe to say there isn't some super keen game that people are missing out on.
What is preventing those other super awesome games from growing with so many people looking for a new mmo?
Ask yourself this. Why do people who are completely burned out on wow chose to rejoin wow after touring other mmos? Why does wow do a better job at attracting burned out wow players than every other game on the market?
Wow has been refining and expanding their game just as ccp has which is why both games are constantly in the running for best this or that and they both continue to grow (maybe wow has reached its peak, but hard to tell with what happened in china.).
People are reluctant to leave, because there isn't a compelling reason to leave yet.
^ This. Thread over.
Nope the thread is not over. It's hilarious when people think that they can announce the end of a thread.
You see some people left after learning that WOW wasn't for them, and found that there were other games out there. In fact some people discovered that some of them were indeed far better than WOW.
WOW was a great game, but it is very old and hasn't exactly aged like a fine cheddar. Blizzard has been essentially squeezing the sponge dry for years. This is opposite to the approach that CCP has taken with EVE online, and it has been growing slowly but steadily since 2003. That game is their baby, and it's treated as such. There are plenty of compelling reasons to leave WOW, but just don't hang around because your friends are still playing or if you are using the commonly misguided logic that WOW is the only worthy MMOrpg to have been released since 2004. Don't be another Ostrich with your head in the sand.
If wow has the same 3% churn rate that some game developers have stated they have, then you have more people quitting wow each month that most games have in total. If other games cannot capitalize on nearly 350,000 former wow players around the globe looking for a new mmo, then I think it is safe to say there isn't some super keen game that people are missing out on.
What is preventing those other super awesome games from growing with so many people looking for a new mmo?
Ask yourself this. Why do people who are completely burned out on wow chose to rejoin wow after touring other mmos? Why does wow do a better job at attracting burned out wow players than every other game on the market?
Wow has been refining and expanding their game just as ccp has which is why both games are constantly in the running for best this or that and they both continue to grow (maybe wow has reached its peak, but hard to tell with what happened in china.).
This is a question that has baffled me for quite sometime. I think it deals more with the mentality of people than with WOW although I havnt really heard anyone say," Im sick of 'game X' but cant find anything else to play" Just seems to be the WOW crowd with this "need" to be subbed to an MMO all the time.
There is nothing really different from people who left UO for EQ. People who left EQ for WoW and people today who are looking to leave wow. People are not leaving, because the next big great game has not arrived yet and the current mmo market is filled with very poorly designed/performing games. It really is that bad.
For most people wow is simply the best game on the market. Even after five years. If any of the recent wow killers had delivered I think we would see a big migration, but that has not happened. In all honestly the last five years has been very disappointing as far as new mmo releases. It has been a virtual graveyard of failures.
We can try to force some psychological reason onto the situation that explains away all the realities of why wow is so dominating, but it doesn't make it so. People are still the same they always have been and the mmo market is in really bad shape if you look at it objectively.
Simply put, other game developers are making it so unbelievably easy for wow to retain players that is astounding that it continues so many years.
There is nothing really different from people who left UO for EQ. People who left EQ for WoW. People are not leaving, because the next big great game has not arrived yet and the current mmo market is filled with very poorly designed/performing games. It really is that bad.
For most people wow is simply the best game on the market. Even after five years. If any of the recent wow killers had delivered I think we would see a big migration, but that has not happened. In all honestly the last five years has been very disappointing as far as new mmo releases. It has been a virtual graveyard of failures.
We can try to force some psychological reason onto the situation that explains away all the realities of why wow is so dominating, but it doesn't make it so. People are still the same they always have been and the mmo market is in really bad shape if you look at it objectively.
Simply put, other game developers are making it so unbelievably easy for wow to retain players that is almost unbelievable that it continues so many years.
I think youve missed my point. It being, if your sick of something why does it need to be replaced before you can leave? Those sick or WOW stay with WOW because they have nowhere else to go? My question was and is, why do these people feel they have to be subbed to an MMO at all times?
The same thing went on in other mmos as well. Some people just like to be subbed to mmos, some still have some enjoyment of the game, but are interested in a new game if one presented itself (this is where I am) and others return after trying to find a new game to play.
Those that are burned out and return usually don't last long and repeat the cycle. Maybe enjoying some new content or feature, but it doesn't fill the desire for something new so they leave again.
As for your point, I don't think it applies to everyone. I do indeed think many many people have simply left wow instead of migrating to other games, because those other games do not offer a better or even equal experience.
Wow is still a top selling game which we can assume means it is attracting plenty of new people, so it is safe to assume that it is also losing people since there have been no new subscription milestones broken. It is also safe to assume other games are not growing considering the rash of server closures, content cycle reductions and staff cuts.
Out with the old and in with Blizzard's new mmo soon. WoW is old, the people have grown tired of the same old expansions that make all your hard work in the previous version all for nothing. I'm actually more interested in Blizzard's upcoming mmo rather than thinking about coming back for Cataclysm.
I wonder if Blizzard will make a console version of their next game. I know Xbox tried to get a version of WOW for a long time. It will be interesting to see.
There is nothing really different from people who left UO for EQ. People who left EQ for WoW. People are not leaving, because the next big great game has not arrived yet and the current mmo market is filled with very poorly designed/performing games. It really is that bad.
For most people wow is simply the best game on the market. Even after five years. If any of the recent wow killers had delivered I think we would see a big migration, but that has not happened. In all honestly the last five years has been very disappointing as far as new mmo releases. It has been a virtual graveyard of failures.
We can try to force some psychological reason onto the situation that explains away all the realities of why wow is so dominating, but it doesn't make it so. People are still the same they always have been and the mmo market is in really bad shape if you look at it objectively.
Simply put, other game developers are making it so unbelievably easy for wow to retain players that is almost unbelievable that it continues so many years.
I think youve missed my point. It being, if your sick of something why does it need to be replaced before you can leave? Those sick or WOW stay with WOW because they have nowhere else to go? My question was and is, why do these people feel they have to be subbed to an MMO at all times?
I think you're putting too much thought into it. There is no hard evidence showing that players have a uncontrollable desire to sub to MMOs. These are vapor facts cooked up by those don't have a clue about the mindsets of other players. By the way your statement:
If you're sick of something, why does it need to be replaced before you can leave?
How would anyone know this without being side-by-side with the player as they are looking for another MMO and tracking their financial records? Who's to say players aren't already unsubscribed to their given MMO and now in the process of researching another?
But even if they do buy another MMO, most companies practice the tradition of giving those that buy a copy 1 free month. So technically players are still only subbed to one MMO. But if the teeth of your point is trying to identify why some players may have a addiction-like draw to MMOs and feel the need to constantly play them then you'd need more that a forum full of MMO junkies and a whole lotta research to even begin to understand those urges.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I wonder if Blizzard will make a console version of their next game. I know Xbox tried to get a version of WOW for a long time. It will be interesting to see.
They want WoW to live forever because it is their bread and butter which I do not blame them. So I would not doubt that their next mmo would have a console version. It would not even suprise me that eventually WoW goes on a console either.
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
Take that!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was my best impression
Where is Zorn these days anyways, he was awesome?
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
lol yeah I noticed that too . Would'nt be suprised if there is a World of Warcraft 2 one of these days but Cataclysm isn't it .
The entire point of playing any game is progression. Whether it be to finish the game, reach the level cap, get powerful enough to tackle something you've been meaning to or collecting enough materials to craft that item you was hoping to. Progression IS gaming.
So that underlined statement of yours cannot hold up in any endeavor dictated by time. And as long as time continues to march forward so will we all. Now don't get me wrong, I understand the desire of some players that want to feel on top of the world (in their given MMO) for as long as possible. But that feeling of euphoria only last so long. And then boredom, resentment and desire for something more eventually kicks in. This is when either players find an entirely new game or an expansion is needed.
And just as some players have no problem starting anew in a new MMO, there are those that are not willing to give up 5 years of progress (however slow it may have been) to start over on a completely clean slate. But really, the just of my statement is to serve the purpose of pointing out that expansions (free or paid) are the only way to give new life into older MMOs. They give players who enjoy their MMOs new things to experience. Current trends, new developments and innovative features are introduced with each expansion released under the banner of a well established MMO.
But to say expansions for MMOs have out-used their usefulness is like saying why bother releasing new MMOs. I mean you're gonna throw away months of progress to start from square one anyway right?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
Take that!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was my best impression
Where is Zorn these days anyways, he was awesome?
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
I read that wow 2.0 and thought, wow that sounds familiar. Good catch.
How dare you.
These accusations are completely unexceptable.
I will not stand for the crap that's being said about my baby WOW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last year WOW made 1.2 Billion Dollars.
That equates to 60% of all MMO subscribers worldwide.
Take that!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That was my best impression
Where is Zorn these days anyways, he was awesome?
I was wondering the same thing too . Think we may have our answer though if he is indeed Camp . Apart from underscoring statements the style of the posts is identical . Theres only one reason he would start up a new account . Like the Hydra Zorndorf may have many heads cut one off and another grows anew .
He got banned and made a new account. Put him on ignore again :P He's the only one to call the next wow addon "wow 2.0"
I read that wow 2.0 and thought, wow that sounds familiar. Good catch.
I guess he'll start posting X-Fire links soon again . Sigh .
Link 1, 2 months after Asian release:
http://www.curse.com/blogs/aion-en-news/archive/2009/05/23/aion-australian-distribution-and-current-number-of-subscriptions.aspx
Link 2, showing Aion sales and revenue growth Q4 2009
http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/overview.aspx
Link 3, for those that don't want to sort thru the above pdf:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073
As I'm sure you know companies are reluctant to publish numbers. Since many in "the public" feel that those numbers are the ones that matter, if you post X subs today and it drops (even slightly) to Y subs next month, you risk people leaving or not starting up. Remember, Aion was out in Asia a year before the western release Q4 09. My point was that WoW is not the only mmo that has subs in the millions. I'll also point out you don't need millions of subs to turn a profit either.
Link 1, 2 months after Asian release:
http://www.curse.com/blogs/aion-en-news/archive/2009/05/23/aion-australian-distribution-and-current-number-of-subscriptions.aspx
Link 2, showing Aion sales and revenue growth Q4 2009
http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/overview.aspx
Link 3, for those that don't want to sort thru the above pdf:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073
As I'm sure you know companies are reluctant to publish numbers. Since many in "the public" feel that those numbers are the ones that matter, if you post X subs today and it drops (even slightly) to Y subs next month, you risk people leaving or not starting up. Remember, Aion was out in Asia a year before the western release Q4 09. My point was that WoW is not the only mmo that has subs in the millions. I'll also point out you don't need millions of subs to turn a profit either.
No where in any of those links you provided say that Aion has 7 million subscribers in Asia alone.
The only link that mentions subscribers is the first one which is a blog quoting another blog that was quoting a sourceless number from IGN.
Next time you are making up complete lies be a little more conservative, they're more believeable that way.
90% of of the friends I had at day one through my 4 years of playing have either quit or found alts and don't want to be known. Looking at warcrafter tells me most of them don't play their mains anymore so MANY abandoned their highest level well geared toons.
The only link that mentions subscribers is the first one which is a blog quoting another blog that was quoting a sourceless number from IGN.
Next time you are making up complete lies be a little more conservative, they're more believeable that way.
The MMO from Blizzard made 1.25 US billion dollars in 2009, it made 1.2 billion dollars in 2008.
It is clear : the bottom line of subscriptions = money and sheet balances.
The complete group on NCsoft made 160 US million dollars in 2009 of which the majority came from a combined Lineage 1 and Lineage 2. NCsoft is also: Guild Wars, CoH, Aion, L1,L2 and a few others...
52 % of that revenu came from Korea. US and EU hardly made 12% of the complete range of games.
So when the majority of the NCSoft income came from L1+L2: you could deduct that Aion brings in ... around 60 million dollars at the most.
A pretty sum, ... but at least taking the pure financials - Aion has around 20 times less hard cash income than WOW.
Now 1.2 billion dollars is a pretty nice basis to support the thesis of 11.5 million subs worldwide (as the income was consistent throughout the last 3 to 4 years (rising from 800 million to 1.25 billion).
But Aion's estimated $ 60 million income (of which a relaunch of the basic box in the west) hardly supports ANY number into the multi millions.
So that's why NCsoft simply doesn't publish subscription numbers.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073/NCsoft-Q4-2009-financial-report-released-today-.html
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
But 60 million yearly hardly supportsa ANY number into the multi millions.
Oo, oo, I know!
1,000,000 people bought the game for $60! =P
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
You all need to learn to spell.
Blizzard better step up the item mall stuff if they want to compete with the 65 million playing Farmville.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Didn't you notice: Bli$$ard used to name exactly numbers since Wotlk they're using terms like ABOUT x subs. Also keep in mind that china has been cut off for months and thats where most of their subs are, so thats about - 6,5 -7 million HUGE. Aion took Asia by a storm and is continuing to outnumber Wow overthere.
The Wowfanboys should keep in mind that falling subs can be good. Right now Bli$$ard doesn't need to do anything but once they start to fall drastically (which will happen soon), they gonna need to show some improvements, dedication and love for their game once again. It will be incredible though to accomplish because Bli$$ard always lost all of the great guys and you can't blame them no one wants to mmorpg for a company that lost all its ideals and directly sold to the devils son that is Kotick.
Cataclysm will just be the same old same old. You do know that revamping the old world means also they're destroying it?! No more crossroads, Durotar or Thunderbluff. Most people I talked to don't even notice that wow will get another expansion soon. Back in Vanilla I was a huge fan of the Warcraftstory and sony took EQ 1 down to an easier road so I switched over. The open world and kaplan like endgame raiding were the mains factors for me to play it. Though the raids never ever came close to Everquest 1.
Once Cataclysm is life the following will happen: Some people will try it out rush to 85, maybe participate in now freeloot raids and quit again. At some point you can't reinvent something.
my prediction: World of Warcraft will fall to 8 million at the end of the year. Arthas maybe the famoust NPC lorewise got killed (shame on you Bli$$!) so the game is now over for many many people.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Link 1, 2 months after Asian release:
http://www.curse.com/blogs/aion-en-news/archive/2009/05/23/aion-australian-distribution-and-current-number-of-subscriptions.aspx
Link 2, showing Aion sales and revenue growth Q4 2009
http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/overview.aspx
Link 3, for those that don't want to sort thru the above pdf:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/269073
As I'm sure you know companies are reluctant to publish numbers. Since many in "the public" feel that those numbers are the ones that matter, if you post X subs today and it drops (even slightly) to Y subs next month, you risk people leaving or not starting up. Remember, Aion was out in Asia a year before the western release Q4 09. My point was that WoW is not the only mmo that has subs in the millions. I'll also point out you don't need millions of subs to turn a profit either.
No where in any of those links you provided say that Aion has 7 million subscribers in Asia alone.
The only link that mentions subscribers is the first one which is a blog quoting another blog that was quoting a sourceless number from IGN.
Next time you are making up complete lies be a little more conservative, they're more believeable that way.
Can't do basic math eh? Plus, it can't be a "complete" lie as I posted some links for your reading. It's not my fault if you were either too lazy or too much in a hurry to read some, admittedly boring, financial reports. A "complete lie" would be 100% fabricated, which according to the links cannot be true.
Sales totals for the year were roughly 35% contributed by Aion and 41% for both Lineage games. Now, the US Aion share is only 12% with 55% coming from Korea. So that means that in Korea there is almost 5 times the subs as there are in the US, roughly speaking since box sales are included in that figure. Aion contributed to 43% of their total sales, but if you just straight divided the sales value by that percentage you wouldn't take into account the number of boxes sold vs subscriptions. The number comes to 18.2 million subs *IF* the game had been given away free, which is not correct. If you took off the 700k boxes sold at/near launch that would drop the total subscription value to 15.8 million, which still seems to be a bit high but not impossible as this game is very big in Asia and less so in the US.
Ok enough numbers it's there if you don't want to believe my "complete lies" after all.