You look at what they are trying to do and the way they are challenging a pretty old gameengine and it really brings home the difference between a company that understands and cares about its end product, one that is doing its best to keep in touch with its playerbase (Paragon) and one that doesn't appear to understand, doesnt seem to care and is surprised by even the most elementary and obvious player feedback (Cryptic).
The COH graphical updates leans toward a realistic and conciving realisation of the game world (its just what the admittedly simplistic gameplay needs to engage a player), while going Rogue is an attempt to involve the player directly in the world, to make what they do meaningful and significant, to add depth! Conversely CO's graphics remain a mixed bag, part stereotype part embarassed parody of a comicbook (as if concieved by someone who doesnt quite get it) and is readying for a new update that still appears to leave the player disconnected and disengaged from the world, simply heaping more and painfully obvious repetitive time sinks to a sterile, pointless and thoroughly underwhelming environment.
I'm going to try one more time to make my point since some of you seem to want to dissect a post and find some tangent to rail about. I haven't played this game for some time and was, I admit, unaware that walking was finally added. Nothing like shutting the barn door after most of the horses have fled. Flight poses were supposed to have been implemented as toggles you could switch, not an emote that has to constantly be reset. And, if jetpacks are so obtainable, does that mean that from the character creator, I can make a jetpack-powered hero, just like I can make one with wings?
My point however is more basic. My focus in any game is the character I create. If I don't like how he looks, I'm going to lose interest fast. This is City's consistent draw, its robust character creator. It can be assume that the focus is on the character from the start, not the environment. I don't care if a dumpster has rust on it or I can kick a tire from the debris of a car and watch it go skidding impossibly across the street. If my character looks like something cut out with scissors by a 3rd-grader, I'm going to be less likely to "wow" at the detail of the environment. From the shots shown in the video linked above, they do not appear interested in improving the character models.
For all its failing, the graphics upgrade for Dark Age of Camelot was one thing that Mythic prioritized correctly. They focused on making your character look good, with lesser focus on the environment. Granted, both are needed for the sake of immersion, but when a project needs to be prioritized, the smarter developers will go with improving a players' base investment in the world, their character. Paragon is missing this and, appparently, are also missing the fact that their world looked great to start with. I have spent countless hours in Paragon City, just flying around and marveling at the sensation of flight over a breathtaking cityscape. Sadly, Going Rogue, is just a title for a bad book to me. It will not inspire me to step into Paragon City again.
Impress me, Paragon, if you can.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I'm going to try one more time to make my point since some of you seem to want to dissect a post and find some tangent to rail about. I haven't played this game for some time and was, I admit, unaware that walking was finally added. Nothing like shutting the barn door after most of the horses have fled. Flight poses were supposed to have been implemented as toggles you could switch, not an emote that has to constantly be reset. And, if jetpacks are so obtainable, does that mean that from the character creator, I can make a jetpack-powered hero, just like I can make one with wings? My point however is more basic. My focus in any game is the character I create. If I don't like how he looks, I'm going to lose interest fast. This is City's consistent draw, its robust character creator. It can be assume that the focus is on the character from the start, not the environment. I don't care if a dumpster has rust on it or I can kick a tire from the debris of a car and watch it go skidding impossibly across the street. If my character looks like something cut out with scissors by a 3rd-grader, I'm going to be less likely to "wow" at the detail of the environment. From the shots shown in the video linked above, they do not appear interested in improving the character models. For all its failing, the graphics upgrade for Dark Age of Camelot was one thing that Mythic prioritized correctly. They focused on making your character look good, with lesser focus on the environment. Granted, both are needed for the sake of immersion, but when a project needs to be prioritized, the smarter developers will go with improving a players' base investment in the world, their character. Paragon is missing this and, appparently, are also missing the fact that their world looked great to start with. I have spent countless hours in Paragon City, just flying around and marveling at the sensation of flight over a breathtaking cityscape. Sadly, Going Rogue, is just a title for a bad book to me. It will not inspire me to step into Paragon City again. Impress me, Paragon, if you can.
If you don't like it, then you don't like it. Personally I really like the way CoH looks, and the video from HeroCon really shows off how amazing the Ultra Mode is going to be.
However, Paragon Studios has been constantly updating the game for free with tons of expansions. The costume creator is one area that has seen a massive overhaul in the past year, not only with new costume pieces but with the the amazing new ability to CHANGE THE COLOR OF YOUR POWERS.
I can't emphasize enough how significant that change is. Considering it was something Paragon Studios didn't think they could do with Cryptic's old and limited game engine, it's amazing it happened at all. But the result is tremendous and brings a whole new level of cool to the game. The last significant update of this level was the introduction of body sliders, allowing you to more fully customize your character, but they've been tweaking it all along.
Recently, the Dev named Back Alley Brawler made a Twitter comment as to the positive results some of the costume tweaks have had in internal testing, giving people more options in the costume creator (specifically separating belts and tails into their own categories) which hints at more things to come.
Flight poses as emotes has the exact same effect as having them be toggles, so I have no idea what your issue is there. Given that there are so many additional powers in the game, making them emotes keeps your power bar clean for your core abilities. jetpacks aren't something you can get in the costume creator currently, but they are easy-to-acquire in-game items which are free. They are temporary toggle powers which last for two days of actual use, but if you use them judiciously you can make them last for an incredibly long time. I had the basic jetpack on one of my villains until he got to level 47, in fact. (Which has the side benefit of allowing you to skip taking a travel power for many, many levels, which lets you take yet another attack instead, which makes the game even more fun. It was a genius addition, in my opinion.)
The Devs have said that jetpacks are difficult to do because there's no attachment point on the characters' backs to add one. Which is why in some body sizes they clip, or are embedded partially inside the character, or float slightly off the character. However, they DID manage to solve the seemingly more difficult custom power color problem, so maybe this will be something in the future.
I urge you to check out the YouTube video from HeroCon which shows off the ultra mode. It really is brilliant. But I have to say that even the last time I played (which was back in November '09), things like the new metal armor and cyborg appendages and reflective faceplates look awesome.
As for Going Rogue, this expansion was announced long before Sarah Palin's self-serving ghost-written collection of spin and outright fabrications was begun, so it shouldn't reflect badly on the game.
Did some of you miss what the article said? The graphics update is not part of Going Rogue, but the next free update, issue 17. It appears Going Rogue is focused on adding a lot more content to the game, so I'm happy with that. Regardless, I think the game looks great for being 6 years old.
Once again, the COH devs are focusing on the wrong things. Remember when they implemented PhysX when almost no one had any interest in buying the extra card? Adding that was a big performance hit. Now, once again, they're focusing on the environment. But the real draw in a Superhero game is the character model. I'm still seeing mittens! You still run everywhere like a ninny. No walking. The flight poses were removed, never to be seen again. No jet pack power or costume options. Anyone remember the Jingle Jet? Paragon, clean up your character models, then worry about the City! Ugh!
Haven't played in a while LordDraekon?
You can walk in the game if you want, it's an inherent power like sprint is. The PhysX they added was for those that had the card. They added ragdoll physics for those that didn't have the PhysX card. Focusing on the environment is what the players have asked for. They really don't need to work on character models as they've already added TONS of customization options, the most recent being the power customization.
Jingle Jet is still in the game. You can buy it during the Winter Event and use it for 30 days real time.
They also added costume change emotes as well, optional if you want to use them or not.
So, I'd say they've done a lot recently for character models. It surely doesn't hurt to give Paragon or the Rogue Isles a new coat of paint.
Guys, I must say that I find the negativity to be apalling. City of Heroes looks darned nice to me. For the most part, I like the way characters look. I grew up with four color comics. I get the feel of that from CoH. (Though from an archetectural standpoint, I think CoH was really influenced by Tim Burton's Gotham City in places, especially Rogue Isles.)
Though character models are important, they are not more important than how the world looks. I give them equal importance.
A few things I'd like to see work on are character sliders for girth. More 'animal' features. Hand held articles that are not weapons such as umbrellas, books, chrystal balls. Really unusual weapons like umbrellas, books, chrystal balls, giant keys, etc... Maybe a new class of character called a gageteer that uses unusual looking weapons.
Those are the kinds of things I want them to work on, not hands being svelt or proper foot to nose ratioes.
Before I posted I watched the Herocon vid, glad I did it was very cool.
Played the game for 2 years but then left, right before the PVP fail. All MMO's this old always need a fresh coat of paint (gfx overhaul), glad they are getting to it and including it in I17. I also like that Paragon makes it optional instead of forcing existing customer to purchase new hardware for a game they already play. Never a good idea to push out existing customers on the "hope" that others will replace them, it's a gamble that should not be played out unless you really have to do it.
I can't wait for the launch and reviews on Going Rogue, not because I will be buying it. I want to see if Paragon has learned anything from past experiences and their competitors failings and applied this knowledge to create a better game. Will it be a few new powersets, graphics and a couple of new systems but the actual repetitive nature of COH/COV will still live in Going Rogue? Will people be going through the same warehouses or office buildings and doing the same tasks they did in COH/COV? I really hope not. I hope for their sakes they learned enough about their COV launch to do things differently.
Best thing about CoH was the mobs' death animations. Blasting/shooting/smashing/frying them is so much more enjoyable when they're ragdolls. I've often wondered why more MMOs don't have the same thing, instead of boring, static death animations. It was a little glitchy in CoH at times, but overall, it made "grinding" mobs more enjoyable. Well, this Ultra Mode looks pretty good. Even if textures aren't being updated, it looks better than it does now.
In CoH I still love blasting guys on catwalks then watching their bodies tumble down.
You look at what they are trying to do and the way they are challenging a pretty old gameengine and it really brings home the difference between a company that understands and cares about its end product, one that is doing its best to keep in touch with its playerbase (Paragon) and one that doesn't appear to understand, doesnt seem to care and is surprised by even the most elementary and obvious player feedback (Cryptic). The COH graphical updates leans toward a realistic and conciving realisation of the game world (its just what the admittedly simplistic gameplay needs to engage a player), while going Rogue is an attempt to involve the player directly in the world, to make what they do meaningful and significant, to add depth! Conversely CO's graphics remain a mixed bag, part stereotype part embarassed parody of a comicbook (as if concieved by someone who doesnt quite get it) and is readying for a new update that still appears to leave the player disconnected and disengaged from the world, simply heaping more and painfully obvious repetitive time sinks to a sterile, pointless and thoroughly underwhelming environment.
I just played Champions Online for the first time and I have to agree with your assessment. While CoH's graphics strive for a bit of realism, CO's graphics look like they're trying to poorly imitate comic books. As a consequence, CoH's graphics look pretty decent, while CO's graphics look embarrassing. They are cartoony and comic book-like in the worst possible ways. Thwey really just look wrong somehow.
I'm 100% sure they are working on the character models (meshes and textures).
Something like that would take AGES to do. Aside from actually improving it, they'd have to redo all the costume pieces and update those too. Theres so many pieces, so many layers, and they dont work 24/7. So updated meshes and textures work take a while. Paragon studios knows what they are doing. It seems like all the people that dont know what they are doing left and took the name cryptic with them.
I kind of feel silly thinking that I was going to leave CoH for CO. After a couple of weeks with CO I chuckled went back to CoH. The HeroCon video was awesome. I loved the dual pistol attacks. I can't wait to have a dual pistol corrupter and then go rogue with it. or is rouge, i always forget. Either way, he'll turn into a hero and become slightly redder.
Going Rogue should show some spotlight on a game that has been fairly quiet for a while. Personally, I blame Cryptic as they seemed to get lazy with updates for a while, then sold the rights to NCSoft. Once NCSoft took over, we started seeing Issues coming quicker with more features that had been asked for by the players for some times.
There are those that may be getting sick of traditional fantasy type mmos, so CoH would certainately be an option for them. Since, in my opinion, Champions is a disappointment that should help more people come to CoH. The success of comic movies shows there is a huge audience for comic-related media. I'm sure some of those movie goers are gamers as well. By freshing up the graphics on the environment it helps the game to not look dated. Character customization is pretty much covered, so next up is to make where your character flies around in look better too.
Comments
Eh? Walking was added sometime last summer. And it looks cool.
But I never disliked the running in CoH. Now in CO, THAT run-cycle looked retarded.
You look at what they are trying to do and the way they are challenging a pretty old gameengine and it really brings home the difference between a company that understands and cares about its end product, one that is doing its best to keep in touch with its playerbase (Paragon) and one that doesn't appear to understand, doesnt seem to care and is surprised by even the most elementary and obvious player feedback (Cryptic).
The COH graphical updates leans toward a realistic and conciving realisation of the game world (its just what the admittedly simplistic gameplay needs to engage a player), while going Rogue is an attempt to involve the player directly in the world, to make what they do meaningful and significant, to add depth! Conversely CO's graphics remain a mixed bag, part stereotype part embarassed parody of a comicbook (as if concieved by someone who doesnt quite get it) and is readying for a new update that still appears to leave the player disconnected and disengaged from the world, simply heaping more and painfully obvious repetitive time sinks to a sterile, pointless and thoroughly underwhelming environment.
I'm going to try one more time to make my point since some of you seem to want to dissect a post and find some tangent to rail about. I haven't played this game for some time and was, I admit, unaware that walking was finally added. Nothing like shutting the barn door after most of the horses have fled. Flight poses were supposed to have been implemented as toggles you could switch, not an emote that has to constantly be reset. And, if jetpacks are so obtainable, does that mean that from the character creator, I can make a jetpack-powered hero, just like I can make one with wings?
My point however is more basic. My focus in any game is the character I create. If I don't like how he looks, I'm going to lose interest fast. This is City's consistent draw, its robust character creator. It can be assume that the focus is on the character from the start, not the environment. I don't care if a dumpster has rust on it or I can kick a tire from the debris of a car and watch it go skidding impossibly across the street. If my character looks like something cut out with scissors by a 3rd-grader, I'm going to be less likely to "wow" at the detail of the environment. From the shots shown in the video linked above, they do not appear interested in improving the character models.
For all its failing, the graphics upgrade for Dark Age of Camelot was one thing that Mythic prioritized correctly. They focused on making your character look good, with lesser focus on the environment. Granted, both are needed for the sake of immersion, but when a project needs to be prioritized, the smarter developers will go with improving a players' base investment in the world, their character. Paragon is missing this and, appparently, are also missing the fact that their world looked great to start with. I have spent countless hours in Paragon City, just flying around and marveling at the sensation of flight over a breathtaking cityscape. Sadly, Going Rogue, is just a title for a bad book to me. It will not inspire me to step into Paragon City again.
Impress me, Paragon, if you can.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
If you don't like it, then you don't like it. Personally I really like the way CoH looks, and the video from HeroCon really shows off how amazing the Ultra Mode is going to be.
However, Paragon Studios has been constantly updating the game for free with tons of expansions. The costume creator is one area that has seen a massive overhaul in the past year, not only with new costume pieces but with the the amazing new ability to CHANGE THE COLOR OF YOUR POWERS.
I can't emphasize enough how significant that change is. Considering it was something Paragon Studios didn't think they could do with Cryptic's old and limited game engine, it's amazing it happened at all. But the result is tremendous and brings a whole new level of cool to the game. The last significant update of this level was the introduction of body sliders, allowing you to more fully customize your character, but they've been tweaking it all along.
Recently, the Dev named Back Alley Brawler made a Twitter comment as to the positive results some of the costume tweaks have had in internal testing, giving people more options in the costume creator (specifically separating belts and tails into their own categories) which hints at more things to come.
Flight poses as emotes has the exact same effect as having them be toggles, so I have no idea what your issue is there. Given that there are so many additional powers in the game, making them emotes keeps your power bar clean for your core abilities. jetpacks aren't something you can get in the costume creator currently, but they are easy-to-acquire in-game items which are free. They are temporary toggle powers which last for two days of actual use, but if you use them judiciously you can make them last for an incredibly long time. I had the basic jetpack on one of my villains until he got to level 47, in fact. (Which has the side benefit of allowing you to skip taking a travel power for many, many levels, which lets you take yet another attack instead, which makes the game even more fun. It was a genius addition, in my opinion.)
The Devs have said that jetpacks are difficult to do because there's no attachment point on the characters' backs to add one. Which is why in some body sizes they clip, or are embedded partially inside the character, or float slightly off the character. However, they DID manage to solve the seemingly more difficult custom power color problem, so maybe this will be something in the future.
I urge you to check out the YouTube video from HeroCon which shows off the ultra mode. It really is brilliant. But I have to say that even the last time I played (which was back in November '09), things like the new metal armor and cyborg appendages and reflective faceplates look awesome.
As for Going Rogue, this expansion was announced long before Sarah Palin's self-serving ghost-written collection of spin and outright fabrications was begun, so it shouldn't reflect badly on the game.
Did some of you miss what the article said? The graphics update is not part of Going Rogue, but the next free update, issue 17. It appears Going Rogue is focused on adding a lot more content to the game, so I'm happy with that. Regardless, I think the game looks great for being 6 years old.
Haven't played in a while LordDraekon?
You can walk in the game if you want, it's an inherent power like sprint is. The PhysX they added was for those that had the card. They added ragdoll physics for those that didn't have the PhysX card. Focusing on the environment is what the players have asked for. They really don't need to work on character models as they've already added TONS of customization options, the most recent being the power customization.
Jingle Jet is still in the game. You can buy it during the Winter Event and use it for 30 days real time.
They also added costume change emotes as well, optional if you want to use them or not.
So, I'd say they've done a lot recently for character models. It surely doesn't hurt to give Paragon or the Rogue Isles a new coat of paint.
Guys, I must say that I find the negativity to be apalling. City of Heroes looks darned nice to me. For the most part, I like the way characters look. I grew up with four color comics. I get the feel of that from CoH. (Though from an archetectural standpoint, I think CoH was really influenced by Tim Burton's Gotham City in places, especially Rogue Isles.)
Though character models are important, they are not more important than how the world looks. I give them equal importance.
A few things I'd like to see work on are character sliders for girth. More 'animal' features. Hand held articles that are not weapons such as umbrellas, books, chrystal balls. Really unusual weapons like umbrellas, books, chrystal balls, giant keys, etc... Maybe a new class of character called a gageteer that uses unusual looking weapons.
Those are the kinds of things I want them to work on, not hands being svelt or proper foot to nose ratioes.
Before I posted I watched the Herocon vid, glad I did it was very cool.
Played the game for 2 years but then left, right before the PVP fail. All MMO's this old always need a fresh coat of paint (gfx overhaul), glad they are getting to it and including it in I17. I also like that Paragon makes it optional instead of forcing existing customer to purchase new hardware for a game they already play. Never a good idea to push out existing customers on the "hope" that others will replace them, it's a gamble that should not be played out unless you really have to do it.
I can't wait for the launch and reviews on Going Rogue, not because I will be buying it. I want to see if Paragon has learned anything from past experiences and their competitors failings and applied this knowledge to create a better game. Will it be a few new powersets, graphics and a couple of new systems but the actual repetitive nature of COH/COV will still live in Going Rogue? Will people be going through the same warehouses or office buildings and doing the same tasks they did in COH/COV? I really hope not. I hope for their sakes they learned enough about their COV launch to do things differently.
In CoH I still love blasting guys on catwalks then watching their bodies tumble down.
I just played Champions Online for the first time and I have to agree with your assessment. While CoH's graphics strive for a bit of realism, CO's graphics look like they're trying to poorly imitate comic books. As a consequence, CoH's graphics look pretty decent, while CO's graphics look embarrassing. They are cartoony and comic book-like in the worst possible ways. Thwey really just look wrong somehow.
I'm 100% sure they are working on the character models (meshes and textures).
Something like that would take AGES to do. Aside from actually improving it, they'd have to redo all the costume pieces and update those too. Theres so many pieces, so many layers, and they dont work 24/7. So updated meshes and textures work take a while. Paragon studios knows what they are doing. It seems like all the people that dont know what they are doing left and took the name cryptic with them.
I kind of feel silly thinking that I was going to leave CoH for CO. After a couple of weeks with CO I chuckled went back to CoH. The HeroCon video was awesome. I loved the dual pistol attacks. I can't wait to have a dual pistol corrupter and then go rogue with it. or is rouge, i always forget. Either way, he'll turn into a hero and become slightly redder.
Well now i know what mmo i'm going to play when i get bored of Aoc.
I do try the old CoX every now and then.
But unfortunatly on the EU side there just isnt enough players, so I rarly re-sub for more than a month.
The new graphics is too little too late I fear. A few nice shadows isnt going to get the masses returning. A Nice treat for existing players though
Well the new graphics update isn't to bring in the masses or new customers that is what Going Rogue is supposed to do.
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
Going Rogue should show some spotlight on a game that has been fairly quiet for a while. Personally, I blame Cryptic as they seemed to get lazy with updates for a while, then sold the rights to NCSoft. Once NCSoft took over, we started seeing Issues coming quicker with more features that had been asked for by the players for some times.
There are those that may be getting sick of traditional fantasy type mmos, so CoH would certainately be an option for them. Since, in my opinion, Champions is a disappointment that should help more people come to CoH. The success of comic movies shows there is a huge audience for comic-related media. I'm sure some of those movie goers are gamers as well. By freshing up the graphics on the environment it helps the game to not look dated. Character customization is pretty much covered, so next up is to make where your character flies around in look better too.