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Tis A Sad Day...

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  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by jrs77


    It's not about Bioware themsleves, it's about the game Bioware is going to present us with.
    A MMORPG, where you can do basically 99% of the content solo? C'mon... that's no MMORPG to start with.


     

    I love how every poster has their own percentage to share, it's quite funny. Tomorrow it will be 92% then 58%. But nobody will touch 100%, they don't wanna look that stupid when the game launches and they're completely wrong. By the way, you should go back and watch the video(s) to have stated the percentage and figure out exactly what they're referring to.

  • AlienovrlordAlienovrlord Member Posts: 1,525
    Originally posted by HandsomeHuss


    Who is bashing Bioware? I haven't seen a single post bashing Bioware, so if there is one, please link it to me (Couldn't find any myself, searching through the pages).

    What about all those polls and requests to remove TOR from MMORPG.com because it wasn't a MMORPG?  It became so bad that MMORPG.com had to step in and state that they are keeping the game on the site, just like they did for STO.  

    Here's the sticky at the top of the forum that you must have missed:

    www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/thread/265150/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-as-an-MMOG.html

    Those posts were not just directed at the game.   For their claims to be true, Bioware would have to be lying to the entire community about making a MMORPG and be foolish enough to try to foist a single player RPG off as a MMORPG.   

    It was a passive/aggressive approach, but it's still directly bashing at the integrity and intelligence of a company that has only done good for the gaming community so far.   The people at Bioware know what a freaking MMORPG is.   They wouldn't be called TOR one if they didn't think it was.   

    Once it became clear that this game was going to be far, far different from SWG, the ludicrous attempts at bashing started up that went beyond the usual hate/noise of trolling here.     The source of it has already been explained by previous posts.  

     

  • darkpath19darkpath19 Member Posts: 51

     Bioware is the only company that can go toe-to-toe with Blizzard for delivering consistent quality games every time.

    I gots faith.

  • jakinjakin Member UncommonPosts: 243

    The two main reservations I have about TOR:

    1)  Number of MMORPGs released by Bioware = 0. 

    2)  Bioware is little more than a brand of EA Games.

    They play into one another.  The Bioware team (if such a thing genuinely exists) does not have experience with launching or maintaining an MMO.  Anyone they have would come from another company or another sector of EA (Mythic for instance).  As such, all the innovative things people laud Bioware for (i.e. great gameplay experiences, great storylines, etc) don't really apply because the team would very probably be blended with people that are used to putting out the "standard MMO". 

    Even if this isn't the case, even supposedly "experienced" online gaming companies have been turning out terribly derivative and uninteresting MMOs for a while now, compounding it with poor communication and judgement as well.  The balance of probabilities is not in favour of Bioware getting it right on their first try.

    Specifically on #2, EA has shown as an organization they're not really committed to making good MMOs.  I'm not convinced that EA would necessarily give the Bioware development team everything they might need when it comes down to crunch time.  TOR may sound good on paper to some at the moment, but there's every probability that it will be released too soon or incomplete as so many other recent MMOs have been.

    /shrug.   It would be good for the genre to have another solid success, but it's way too far out for me to be confident TOR is likely to be that success.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by jakin


    The two main reservations I have about TOR:
    1)  Number of MMORPGs released by Bioware = 0. 
    2)  Bioware is little more than a brand of EA Games.
    They play into one another.  The Bioware team (if such a thing genuinely exists) does not have experience with launching or maintaining an MMO.  Anyone they have would come from another company or another sector of EA (Mythic for instance).  As such, all the innovative things people laud Bioware for (i.e. great gameplay experiences, great storylines, etc) don't really apply because the team would very probably be blended with people that are used to putting out the "standard MMO". 
    Even if this isn't the case, even supposedly "experienced" online gaming companies have been turning out terribly derivative and uninteresting MMOs for a while now, compounding it with poor communication and judgement as well.  The balance of probabilities is not in favour of Bioware getting it right on their first try.
    Specifically on #2, EA has shown as an organization they're not really committed to making good MMOs.  I'm not convinced that EA would necessarily give the Bioware development team everything they might need when it comes down to crunch time.  TOR may sound good on paper to some at the moment, but there's every probability that it will be released too soon or incomplete as so many other recent MMOs have been.
    /shrug.   It would be good for the genre to have another solid success, but it's way too far out for me to be confident TOR is likely to be that success.

    They've been saying for 9 months now the game is in a playable state. This game has been in development for a long time now. To believe it may be released to soon could only come from the idea of having a lack of information. BioWare has said in a few interviews that they don't release information until it's ready. As for never making an MMO. Blizzard is laughing while sitting on a mountain of money.  First MMO, been making MMOs for years, doesn't mean a damn thing. Quality and delivering what is promised is all that matters. The hype from what is promised captivates people, if BioWare sticks to what they have shown us then ToR will have a great future.

  • Anarchist420Anarchist420 Member Posts: 74
    Originally posted by jakin


    The two main reservations I have about TOR:
    1)  Number of MMORPGs released by Bioware = 0. 
    2)  Bioware is little more than a brand of EA Games.
    They play into one another.  The Bioware team (if such a thing genuinely exists) does not have experience with launching or maintaining an MMO.  Anyone they have would come from another company or another sector of EA (Mythic for instance).  As such, all the innovative things people laud Bioware for (i.e. great gameplay experiences, great storylines, etc) don't really apply because the team would very probably be blended with people that are used to putting out the "standard MMO". 
    Even if this isn't the case, even supposedly "experienced" online gaming companies have been turning out terribly derivative and uninteresting MMOs for a while now, compounding it with poor communication and judgement as well.  The balance of probabilities is not in favour of Bioware getting it right on their first try.
    Specifically on #2, EA has shown as an organization they're not really committed to making good MMOs.  I'm not convinced that EA would necessarily give the Bioware development team everything they might need when it comes down to crunch time.  TOR may sound good on paper to some at the moment, but there's every probability that it will be released too soon or incomplete as so many other recent MMOs have been.
    /shrug.   It would be good for the genre to have another solid success, but it's way too far out for me to be confident TOR is likely to be that success.

     

    To your 1)  No company has released an MMO, until they do.. True Bioware has not released an MMO before however unlike some companies that delve into the MMO industry blindly, Bioware has been in the "game" industry for a long time, to much success (in my opinion).

    You are right though that even established game companies have been under par on recent MMO releases.

    To your 2) I have to disagree.  While Bioware now brands EA's evil signature, I still have high hopes that for the most part they still work as independently as possible from EA.

    I do have high hopes also for TOR, though all of the things promised and planned for the game seem a bit far-out for me to believe everything will go without a hitch.  Then again, I dont recall any MMO in the last decade that went off without at least one major hiccup.

    image

  • Lathander81Lathander81 Member Posts: 611
    Originally posted by Anarchist420

    Originally posted by jakin


    The two main reservations I have about TOR:
    1)  Number of MMORPGs released by Bioware = 0. 
    2)  Bioware is little more than a brand of EA Games.
    They play into one another.  The Bioware team (if such a thing genuinely exists) does not have experience with launching or maintaining an MMO.  Anyone they have would come from another company or another sector of EA (Mythic for instance).  As such, all the innovative things people laud Bioware for (i.e. great gameplay experiences, great storylines, etc) don't really apply because the team would very probably be blended with people that are used to putting out the "standard MMO". 
    Even if this isn't the case, even supposedly "experienced" online gaming companies have been turning out terribly derivative and uninteresting MMOs for a while now, compounding it with poor communication and judgement as well.  The balance of probabilities is not in favour of Bioware getting it right on their first try.
    Specifically on #2, EA has shown as an organization they're not really committed to making good MMOs.  I'm not convinced that EA would necessarily give the Bioware development team everything they might need when it comes down to crunch time.  TOR may sound good on paper to some at the moment, but there's every probability that it will be released too soon or incomplete as so many other recent MMOs have been.
    /shrug.   It would be good for the genre to have another solid success, but it's way too far out for me to be confident TOR is likely to be that success.

     

    To your 1)  No company has released an MMO, until they do.. True Bioware has not released an MMO before however unlike some companies that delve into the MMO industry blindly, Bioware has been in the "game" industry for a long time, to much success (in my opinion).

    You are right though that even established game companies have been under par on recent MMO releases.

    To your 2) I have to disagree.  While Bioware now brands EA's evil signature, I still have high hopes that for the most part they still work as independently as possible from EA.

    I do have high hopes also for TOR, though all of the things promised and planned for the game seem a bit far-out for me to believe everything will go without a hitch.  Then again, I dont recall any MMO in the last decade that went off without at least one major hiccup.



     

    Why do people think EA is bad..the are a great complany that has had a hand in some very successful games. Mass Effect 1&2, Dragon Age,  Metal of Honor, Spore, and Dante's inferno (maybe good we have to see).    Maybe I'm missing something?

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,397

    Bioware still seems to be more of a separate piece of EA, and not something EA created, so, that should be a big bonus from that point of view.

  • RoldRold Member Posts: 63
    Originally posted by jrs77


    It's not about Bioware themsleves, it's about the game Bioware is going to present us with.
    A MMORPG, where you can do basically 99% of the content solo? C'mon... that's no MMORPG to start with.
    Next on the list of crappy game-features is the classes. Who want's classes these days? We want skill-based MMOs, where we can do whatever we want to, without having to reroll alts or re-spec.
    And don't get me started on the lack of PvP-options. C'mon... this IP has so many options for territorial warfare, factional warafe, FFA PvP and more.
    Bioware is making the same mistakes with the Star Wars IP that Cryptic has made with the Star Trek IP and there's many other examples.
    We're fed up with those levelbased PvE-centric MMOs, you play for a month until you get bored and leave the game until the next content gets added.
    And don't get me wrong. Good PvE and good storytelling is not wrong, but there needs to be more to such a great IP. And this IP actually deserves to be a sandbox, like SWG preNPE was.

     Basically you want to say that you hate the game because it is not like sandbox SWG PREwhatever and that you don't like pve games. Let me say it a way you may understand it: This game is not for you!

    In general your opinion is ok but why do you think you are the choosen one who can talk for all other gamers on this forum or are you a split personality who needs to talk for different persons in yourself?

    MMO's are not defined to have to be "sandbox games"! Anyway sandbox often means just an empty barren world and is used as excuse for no story or content in the game, which I find mostly just boring. Maybe you should rather go to Darkfall or Mortal Online forums there are the games that may meet your taste.

    I'm on the fence for this game but even if I will not like the way it will play it is positive that Bioware has the guts to try to take MMO's into a new (their) direction. There weren't much innovations the last years that worked especially well for MMO's so I hope this one may bring a change.

    [X] drill here for new monitor

  • ResetgunResetgun Member Posts: 471
    Originally posted by Lathander81


    Why do people think EA is bad..the are a great complany that has had a hand in some very successful games. Mass Effect 1&2, Dragon Age,  Metal of Honor, Spore, and Dante's inferno (maybe good we have to see).    Maybe I'm missing something?

     

    Yes - you are.

    Mass Effect 1&2 and Dragon Age were already under development / made before EA bought Bioware.

    First Medal of Honor was made DreamWorks Interactive - part of DreamWorks Pictures. It was bought year 2000 by EA. Merged it with remains of Westwood Studios (creators of Command & Conquer, EA bought them 1998) in year 2003 and renamed it as EA Los Angles.

    Businessweeks pretty much summarises EA (http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/aug2006/id20060828_268977.htm):

    Tallying in spin-off studios, that's an average of 1.2 acquisitions a year since 1991 – half that, within the current hardware generation. Of the total, one-third have since been closed – all, again, within the past five years. All save Origin, Bullfrog, Maxis, and DICE have been renamed after their parent company, either in part or in whole.

    The pattern to these acquisitions, if not universal, is infamous: find a company that made a really popular game, acquire the company and its properties; then set the team on churning out sequel after sequel to the game in question. Sometimes, likely not by design, the staff leaves or burns out, or one of the products sells poorly; the studio is closed or subsumed. Of EA's acquisitions, only Maxis is known for retaining its autonomy and culture within the EA corporate structure, the jewel in EA's crown.

    EA seemed to have abandoned all of its founding principles and developed an attitude of rapid growth whatever the long-term cost, thereby setting a poor example for the rest of the industry. But it's not all bad news. The firm has set its sight on growth through creativity, and has been forced to come to terms with the costs of its own ambitions.

    Thanks in part to Erin Hoffman and a high-profile class action lawsuit, that overtime business in particular (90-hour weeks, no compensation) has come under close scrutiny, bringing Larry Probst's EA into a critical light. When, therefore, EA decided to buy up 20% of one of its closest rivals, freaking out Ubisoft, everyone's eyes were turned to EA, glaring, almost daring them to take the next step – a step which has, as yet, not manifested itself…

    Well... I guess even EA can learn from it's history - but it still far from perfect studio and long way to go be one. I hope all good for Bioware, that they can keep some of their autonomy like Maxis and develope good games. But I don't expect that they are going to achieve same quality in future.

     

    "I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482

  • pepsi1028pepsi1028 Member Posts: 471
    Originally posted by Ravenmane


    When one of the most beloved developers in the market get slammed because they want to create a MMO.  I have heard nothing but positive and great things about Bioware and why not, look at their track record.  They have some of the best rated games (and imo I played them all and think they are all great) and countless awards and fans world-wide. 
     
    But the moment they go into making a MMO that's when you start to see the hate.  Mostly here.  I guess it's the nature of the mmorpg forums.  It doesn't matter who makes a game, people will feel the need to bash it here regardless.  The gods could make a game and people will still bash it.  So far I noticed two people who hate the game.  One thinks that the IP will sell it alone versus IP+Bioware track Record+Bioware fans+KOTOR selling it.  The other guy feels that Bioware is a lazy incompetent developer who sucks at making games, because, well, I guess lazy companies make AAA titles back to back and are world renown for doing so.  If a developer was lazy then the games would reflect it and frankly I can make a 12 page post about how Bioware is far from lazy and is one of the best developers world-wide and based on fact and not biased opinion.
     
    It really takes away the credit of the information on these forums when crap like this happens.  I never heard one bad thing about Bioware or their games...until SWTOR started development and the release window is this year.  I guess the closer to release we get the more the fanboys from other games will start flooding the pub or the SWTOR boards spreading hate and flame for whatever reason.  I guess they feel that if they do then their few words will convince people to not play.
     
    Sorry but many feel that SWTOR will be the game that the MMO market needs, and it shows the most promise in putting the nail in WoW's coffin and taking the place as king of MMO's.  But to be honest I wouldn't want that because then all the WoW kids will jump on the bandwagon and ruin SWTOR for the rest of us.  I'm sticking by Bioware's track record and their history proves that SWTOR will probably be one of the best MMO's out there.  Can't say definately until I either get a beta invite or release.  But until then the haters really need to stop because there are far far more people who want to play SWTOR and think Bioware is a great developer than the handful of you on these forums.

    How do you think they decided to make these single-player rpg's?

    Through experimentation. Who knows, they may make better MMO's then they do single players. Let them try it. Trial and error my friend, trial and error....

    †Pepsi1028†

    PEPSI!!!!!
    Get out of your box already...

  • BLeeDzACiDBLeeDzACiD Member Posts: 55

    I just feel there are many people who have been burned by mmos during 2008-2009. I for one was expecting a big year. Warhammer and those dudes wearing the white shades hyping there game and it flopped, Fury shut down, Hellgate london failed, Age of conan was the best 20 lvls I have ever played in a while then it stopped there. tabula rasa another failure. Thats alot of money and trust burned I really hope TOR can pull this off and I can be a happy smuggler and enjoy but till then they gonna have to earn my trust not there track record but the game coming out.

  • Binny45Binny45 Member UncommonPosts: 515

    As far as any hate towards any game goes, can you really blame us?

    In the past 12 years I've bought countless games, 5 of which were collectors editions and the only ones I felt I recieved any sort of value from were EQ and WoW.  Most of the others, after playing for a couple of months (some even less...yes, you Warhammer!), left me feeling ripped off and pissed off!

    There should be a damn law for these types of games where you get 2 weeks free to try before you spend your money, then MAYBE these companies might actually start giving a damn about how their game really plays as opposed to making the money grab and then shutting the damn game down or letting the game fall slowly into oblivion with little to no updates.

    image

  • pepsi1028pepsi1028 Member Posts: 471
    Originally posted by Lathander81

    Originally posted by Anarchist420

    Originally posted by jakin


    The two main reservations I have about TOR:
    1)  Number of MMORPGs released by Bioware = 0. 
    2)  Bioware is little more than a brand of EA Games.
    They play into one another.  The Bioware team (if such a thing genuinely exists) does not have experience with launching or maintaining an MMO.  Anyone they have would come from another company or another sector of EA (Mythic for instance).  As such, all the innovative things people laud Bioware for (i.e. great gameplay experiences, great storylines, etc) don't really apply because the team would very probably be blended with people that are used to putting out the "standard MMO". 
    Even if this isn't the case, even supposedly "experienced" online gaming companies have been turning out terribly derivative and uninteresting MMOs for a while now, compounding it with poor communication and judgement as well.  The balance of probabilities is not in favour of Bioware getting it right on their first try.
    Specifically on #2, EA has shown as an organization they're not really committed to making good MMOs.  I'm not convinced that EA would necessarily give the Bioware development team everything they might need when it comes down to crunch time.  TOR may sound good on paper to some at the moment, but there's every probability that it will be released too soon or incomplete as so many other recent MMOs have been.
    /shrug.   It would be good for the genre to have another solid success, but it's way too far out for me to be confident TOR is likely to be that success.

     

    To your 1)  No company has released an MMO, until they do.. True Bioware has not released an MMO before however unlike some companies that delve into the MMO industry blindly, Bioware has been in the "game" industry for a long time, to much success (in my opinion).

    You are right though that even established game companies have been under par on recent MMO releases.

    To your 2) I have to disagree.  While Bioware now brands EA's evil signature, I still have high hopes that for the most part they still work as independently as possible from EA.

    I do have high hopes also for TOR, though all of the things promised and planned for the game seem a bit far-out for me to believe everything will go without a hitch.  Then again, I dont recall any MMO in the last decade that went off without at least one major hiccup.



     

    Why do people think EA is bad..the are a great complany that has had a hand in some very successful games. Mass Effect 1&2, Dragon Age,  Metal of Honor, Spore, and Dante's inferno (maybe good we have to see).    Maybe I'm missing something?

    I also agree that people should stop hating. They are a great company and know what they are doing.

    †Pepsi1028†

    PEPSI!!!!!
    Get out of your box already...

  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin Member Posts: 3,033
    Originally posted by GTwander


    People seem to hate Bioware *because* of the track record.

     

    Right...Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Baldurs Gate. . .all the games we love to....love....wait a minute.

  • FadeToBlack3FadeToBlack3 Member Posts: 89

     Agreed! TC has it right on the money in this topic.

    Wolfenpride: <--Giant fucking sword syndrome.

    Probably cause im trying to compensate for miniscule manhood.

  • donjuanamigodonjuanamigo Member Posts: 256

    i dont care what direction this game is taking, how much of the content is soloable or what kind of classes there are going to be in this game. I cant wait for this game to release next year.  I'm going to play this game so damn hard my computer is going to melt. im going to spend every minute of vacation time i have saved up so i can sit at home and play this game damn near 24/7.

  • leshtricityleshtricity Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 231

    It COULD have something to do with the fact that EA recently acquired Bioware and is probably going to be pushing them to hop on the WoW-cash-in train...just a thought.

    Bioware has a great track record. EA does not.

    I have no expectations for SWTOR. I foresee it being a success, but I don't think it's going to do much for the jaded MMO gamers out there like myself who are sick of the WoW-style MMO's running the show.

    the official MMORPG.com deadhead

  • JuNkStAJuNkStA Member Posts: 2

    quit6e frankly, i have been looking forward to this game since I first heard about it, a long time ago, and I for one will be buying it regardless of free trial or not which I always look for in other games before i buy

     

    Yes, im a stars wars fan

    Yes i played SWG, EQ, EQ2, UO, WOW, FFXI, Raganarok, AOC, Warhammer,  DAOC and countless others I cant recall.

    The only two games that have come close to even realising my dream of an MMO have been EQ (old days up to SOV) and EQ2

    which i just got back into. imo POP screwed EQ but we aren't talking about that.

     

    Bioware has made some of the greatest games I have ever played, Kotor 1 and 2,  Dragon age Origins etc

     

    But so far no game has ever completely enveloped my idea of what a game must have, if anyone has ever played Freelancer, you might have some idea of what i'm looking for.

     

    I want a space game like that, but I want to be able to land my own ship on the planets, and have the option to take quests on the planets and in space, now SWG tried to do that, but, they fell short and even though it was a wide area to play in, it still felt like a sandbox in space, I dont know if anyone knows what im talking about here, but im hoping TOR can deliver, I want to land my own spacecraft. (sure it can vanish into my inventory afterwards) but i dont want a loading screen I want to be able to walk off my craft myself then click it to store it like SWG had for their vehicles.

     

    Basicaly, I want the RL feeling you get when you watch the star wars movies, I realise this will not happen for a while, but i remain hopeful that TOR will come closer to that then any other game has

     

     

     

  • leshtricityleshtricity Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 231

    "I want a space game like that, but I want to be able to land my own ship on the planets"

    haha, me too. but i guarantee you that will not be present in SWTOR, at least not for a good while...if at all. i sincerely doubt they have any kind of 'space' game setup. looks to me like it's all ground-based. which kind of defeats the point of using the license, since it is, you know, STAR Wars.

    the official MMORPG.com deadhead

  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu Member UncommonPosts: 1,832
    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

    Originally posted by GTwander


    People seem to hate Bioware *because* of the track record.

     

    Right...Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Baldurs Gate. . .all the games we love to....love....wait a minute.



     

     

    Well said.

    EA used to be hated more than SOE is now, but I think they have redeemed themselves quite well with the games they have released over the last few years. No, not all were #1 killers and there were stinkers but all in all they have learned (I hope) not to decimate companies and titles they bought.

    That said, I can't wait for TOR.

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • NewmeanieNewmeanie Member Posts: 149

    Single player games and multiplayer games are different beasts.

     

    Its like assuming a company that is excellent at making trucks, is excellent at making cars too.

     

    EH WRONG, look at ford, wonderful trucks, terrible cars.

     

    This is like Ferari developing an MMO.  Sure, ferari makes cool freaking cars, but it doesnt mean their MMO will be spectacular.

     

    Bioware's track record for making great games cannot be assumed to continue in the MMO industry.  It can be assumed they will try there best and spend alot of time/money on making it what they think is great.

     

    But their ideas are heavily influenced by a differetn market. like cars and trucks.

  • TonevTonev Member Posts: 462

    There is a difference between a basher,troll and a skeptic (people on these and other forums don't know the difference.).

    This game will not be a WOW killer ( I hope not, as they can keep that bull shit chat regional in that game). We will see if they make the hoop or drop the ball, when game finally comes out.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Newmeanie

     
    This is like Ferari developing an MMO.  Sure, ferari makes cool freaking cars, but it doesnt mean their MMO will be spectacular.


    Ferrari* makes cars

    BioWare makes games

    MMORPGs are games, not cars.

    Cocaine is a hell of a drug

     

  • just2duhjust2duh Member Posts: 1,290
    Originally posted by greed0104

    Originally posted by Newmeanie

     
    This is like Ferari developing an MMO.  Sure, ferari makes cool freaking cars, but it doesnt mean their MMO will be spectacular.


    Ferrari* makes cars

    BioWare makes games

    MMORPGs are games, not cars.

    Cocaine is a hell of a drug

     



     

      Car refferences? Ok, I can play that game.

      All we can hope for is that Bioware doesn't turn into Toyota.. They became top-selling in the industry and a CEO admitted that being at the top was the cause of the reduction in overall quality, which resulted in massive recalls.

      lol :P Lets just keep our fingers crossed.

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