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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Some Concerns about The Old Republic

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,778

    Altho i will most likely try this game , i am hoping that as development rolls on that some serious changes are made ,the direction that Bioware is taking this game is not indicitive of a traditional MMO , the more i read the more it sounds like a MSORPG not an MMO, posssibly further testing will bring some changes..

    From PC GAmer who recently got to play the current build "SWToR plays more like DA than it does WoW" fill in the Wow with any current mmo ... A companion pet system for everyone troubles me , from Bioware " The game can be completed without any interaction with another player" Huhhhhh!!



    I really like the SW ip and want to see this game succeed BUT , when i read stuff like this from a recent interview with there devs at E3 it makes me cringe...



    The Flash Point scene was a private, closed off area for only you and someone you brought along from the looks of it. no other players, so it is safe to assume this was a single player area. We saw some people on Hutta, but they were just going about their normal business.

    As the devs told us, the majority of the game can be done without a single bit of help from another player. They said that the main appeal of MMOs is the experience single player with the option of being with other players. They confirmed that names, chat, and so on could all be turned off or ignored if you really, really wanted absolutely nothing to do with other people.

    Names:

    Naming filters have been confirmed. No numbers, special characters, or Star Wars names. They emphasized the strictness of this system, as they seemed to agree on the assumption it could be immersion, if not game breaking.

     

    If they want to make KOTOR 3 thats great but dont rap it up with optional coop play and slap a monthly sub on it..

    When every lvl 30 (insert class) is running around in the same exact gear and none needs any help to aquire anything... blehhh

    There will be no sense of community , no need for community

  • TegamdarTegamdar Member Posts: 5

    Good points there heh.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by Scorchien


    When every lvl 30 (insert class) is running around in the same exact gear and none needs any help to aquire anything... blehhh

    You seem to have a reading problem.  They said "most of the game" could be done without help.  That's how almost all MMOs are these days, certainly WoW is like that.  It certainly doesn't mean you can get the best gear without doing any group content (and there IS group-only content).

     

  • BCuseBCuse Member Posts: 140
    Originally posted by metatronic



     Thats usually what happens in sandbox games when content dries up.. And seriously, what content other than unlocking a jedi and doing pvp was there in SWG.. Hmm not too much only one of the best crafting systems ever designed... Space was added later.. A player economy driven completely by the crafters was pretty awesome stuff..  So they were losing subs... Is that any reason to change the mechanics of the combat system and class system? They lost subs for a completely different reason, and all signs point to a severe lack of quests and content in general. I can tell you never played the game seriously enough to see its faults and flaws.

     

    Oh ya, lets not forget WoW and eq2 both came out in nov 2004.. Pretty much at the point swg subs started falling off.. And why did they fall off? NEw game engines, new worlds loaded with quests and content.. No other reason.. SWG combat and class system should have never been touched..

     

     

    The original SWG was awesome but no perfect.  I agree SWG combat and class systems should not have been touched.  Im afraid a lot of people are hoping the SWTOR will be everything that we wanted from SWG, but its not going to be.  When this comes out i probably will give it a try but i have my doubts how much i will like this game.  Its sad for me to say but i doubt we will ever have the Star Wars game we all wished SWG could have become. 

     

    i

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,027
    Originally posted by Scorchien


    From PC GAmer who recently got to play the current build "SWToR plays more like DA than it does WoW"

     

    Good.

    Bringing the strengths of RPGs into the MMO genre is exactly what is needed, in my opinion, and there are none better than BioWare to do so.

    As far as I'm concerned, there has never been an MMORPG, and this promises to finally be one.

    Favorites: EQEVETOR | Playing: None, overtaken by VR | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • Anarchist420Anarchist420 Member Posts: 74

    The idea behind the double edged saber resembling a  "mage staff" and the "tank" esque classes having vader type armor is a way to make core mmo players feel comfortable, i think.  I don't think its a bad thing, although i would much rather BW take their own direction in terms of class makeups and styles, but it all comes back to what makes money.  If some WoW kiddie can look at a mage/healer class and see a "saber-staff-looking-gear" set he would cream his pants, im sure, potentially drawing him to their game.  Personally I dont share the same attention to the "finer detail" as the OP nor do i really care what class follows what IP rule.  But I have faith in Bioware to pull it off, though it will be a rough ride I agree.

    Yes its Star Wars, yes the movies/games (some of them) are/were great, but that doesnt mean not following the IP rules verbatim would make for a lackluster game.

    I do agree with the OP about the mission overlaps but I'm sure (hoping) they find a way to deal with that.

    image

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,027

    Yeah, so, I hadn't even noticed that the Inquisitors and Consulars were being depicted as the double-bladed saber wielders until it was mentioned here, and now it irritates the hell out of me. Thanks a lot.

    I really hope that its resemblance to a staff isn't the real reason behind this choice. It may be of similar length, but it has none of the functions. Try to use it like a staff and you'll just end up ruining carpets and breaching hulls.

    If they really think it's that important to have the 'casters' carry longer objects....

    Favorites: EQEVETOR | Playing: None, overtaken by VR | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • nubadaknubadak Member Posts: 150

    What I am hoping for in the new Starwars is:

    - Space comabt somewhat like SWG Jump to Lightspeed,

    - PvP  that efrfects all players and PvE that effects all players,

    - Player Housing just like SWG is atm,

    - I DON'T WANT TO START AS A JEDI...this needs to be a path of redeemption or disscovery for the player not a click "now I'm a Jedi lvl 1 and gona start the game"

     

    My two cents by point.

    Nub's

     

    image

  • FaelsunFaelsun Member UncommonPosts: 500

    The article is all well and good and all, but TOR is ages away from release date. I also find any concern about LORE laughable from this site. Where was the WOW throws Lore out the window Article, or players think DKs and Tauren Paladins are stupid?

     

    This site has made too many bad calls on its own to be attacking a game thats not even in Beta yet.. I mean come one.

    Or isn't this the same place that gave WOTLK a perfect review?

    LOL

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,506

    “A trend that was not present in BioWare’s KotOR games.” “desperately wants to be an original trilogy game.”

    That was before it was acquired by EA, now under the control of Mr Haggan-Dazzs/Pepsi Cola. I would expect everyone to look like the leads from the films, regardless of what their class background is supposed to be. :)

    I am glad to see a nod in the direction of three factions, maybe it can be added on later, but I doubt it.

    Having a heavily 'you are the hero' storyline and grouping do not mix. I will predicate now that anyone who likes grouping will find STOR a let down. Look at what AOC did, make you the hero for 20 levels then make grouping more important for the rest of the game. (Still a very solo game mind you).

    Trying to bring a Fable feel to an online lobby game would work better. Maybe STOR will play more like that than a MMO? But in an effort to appeal to everyone they have to say you can group, for now that is. Modern MMO releases are making grouping such a pointless chore I doubt I will want to group in a couple of years time.

     25 Agrees

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  • ToothmanToothman Member UncommonPosts: 76
    Originally posted by Jamion

    Originally posted by KyngBills



    I have played a lot of MMOs, I wouldn't consider myself in the op of the Hardcore (although does 60+ MMO game play hours per week count for anything?).  But I have played in pre-CU SWG and in NGE.  The main thing that I look for in any game is storyline.  A good story is the most important part.  MMOs have a tendency of writing half baked stories.  SWG really didn't have any, it played well for "A Day in the Life of Star Wars" as an online sim in pre-CU, but really had no kick.   You sort of had to make up what you wanted to do, which lends well to the absolute sandbox.  And while I don't want to be lead around by my hand, I do want a compelling story, with compelling choices, and great RP.  These personal decision and choices are something that PnP has done well, but not MMOs.  

    Now in regards to STO, I was a little disappointed at first with story (I am now Cp8), I have to say that it has gotten really interesting.  The developments are well done, but it still lacks a bit of choice.  This is something new that TOR aims for, a new way to play.  Not simply combat, not simply saying Tank, DPS, Healer... no.  It wants players involvement, player decisions, player driven (but story guided) gameplay.  This is something that other MMOs have attempted in small scale, but TOR will be the first to take it on in large scale.  It's not a harcore vs casual thing, its supposed to be a new way of looking at the game entirely.  And as such we should view it from a different perspective then the games that have come before, and not judge it by the same standards.  We should engage it by an attempt to make the game more immersive, something new; and if it works, something wonderful.

     

    For people who like to be told what to do, then go do it thats great.   I prefer a much more open world where I play the game.  I can read a book while offline.  They can keep their story.  I'm looking to make my own.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,442

    It really galls me that some posters are completely blind to the fact that SWG offered freedom to choose like few MMO's.  Hell no it was not the perfect game, it had problems, but nothing close to what NGE introduced. 

    Now we get the socialists complaining about a market driven economy.  Sorry fellows even Russia could not make a go of the alternative.  Some things are going to be expensive because they are hard to make and everyone wants them. 

    Some of you posters expect the MMO you play to do everything for you, make all your choices and lead you by the hand.  where is the challenge in that?  That is what Kotor will be, a lead you by the hand MMO.  Your class and progression already set in stone.  While Bioware will tell a very good story as they always do, there is no freedom to choose in their games.  You play their games they way they want you to or don't play.

    Hence, the author pretty much nailed it in his article.  Players don't play non challenging MMO's for long.

  • McGamerMcGamer Member UncommonPosts: 1,052

     Similarly like the OP pointed out about not playing "Force Unleashed", I won't be playing SWTOR just because it has a star wars label. There are some gamers who actually don't play just anything that comes along. I am a long time star wars fan, BW has a good track record with console titles, but it's a different ball game with mmo's and they know it.

    But it may be that BW will go "the easy button" route and dumb the IP down in order to play it safe and not risk only appealing to the star wars fan niche. Only time will tell but so far I haven't seen BW make any changes (or comments even) to any content released based on obvious fan disapproval and that isn't a great sign of things to come.

  • JestorRodoJestorRodo Member UncommonPosts: 2,642

    WoW , Micheal - Nice article.

    Unaware of the Jestor?
    http://about.me/JestorRodo/

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  • SwampRobSwampRob Member UncommonPosts: 1,003
    Originally posted by Ozmodan



    Hence, the author pretty much nailed it in his article.  Players don't play non challenging MMO's for long.

     

    The article was silly.    It was bashing a not-yet-released game for not being EXACTLY faithful to the lore.    As long as it's a fun game.

    Also, as a very long time gamer, I don't want "challenging" MMOs.   If I want to be challenged, I'll play bridge.    I want to feel powerful, be the hero, relax and kick-ass.     This notion that MMOs need to constantly challenge all players is only true for the hardcore.

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,608
    Originally posted by Scorchien




    As the devs told us, the majority of the game can be done without a single bit of help from another player. They said that the main appeal of MMOs is the experience single player with the option of being with other players. They confirmed that names, chat, and so on could all be turned off or ignored if you really, really wanted absolutely nothing to do with other people.
    When every lvl 30 (insert class) is running around in the same exact gear and none needs any help to aquire anything... blehhh
    There will be no sense of community , no need for community



     

    You could say the same thing about WoW, but I can and do group in that game, quite easily, whenever I want to, and so do ALOT of other players. Some people don't realize MMOs are really about the community no matter how you try to play. But most of them do.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • TzetothTzetoth Member Posts: 67

    Sort of missing the forest for the trees on the lightsaber issue.

    I'm more worried about the fact that everyone will be wailing on each other like pinatas rather than showing the finesse and lethality of them. This, to me, is indicative of overall issues. If they won't take the time to do lightsaber combat right (implement some fatigue system which ends in a killing blow) it seems they just don't care enough to be true to the universe.

    Then again, they're going for the loose Star Wars setting, so they'll just make it up as they go along and slap the Star Wars trademark on it.

  • catlanacatlana Member Posts: 1,677
    Originally posted by Drachasor

    Originally posted by catlana


    This article was a bunch of BS. I played KOTOR not that long ago again. Guess what, every single one of my light side jedi's were able to use a double bladed lightsaber quite effectly. Bastilla (a jedi) starts with a double bladed light saber for crying out loud. The story in Kotor & Kotor 2 is incredible. On the other hand, the recent movies have been duds.
    KOTOR is what Bioware needs to base the game on, not this BS about SWG. SWG died long ago. Let it rest in peace. The lore needs to flow from Kotor.



     

    Indeed.  The Jedi have an entire lightsaber combat style around fighting with two lightsabers (or with a double lightsaber).  To say nothing of how the article is flat-out wrong about how this works in game.  Any Force user can use a single lightsaber, double, or two seperate lightsabers.  It is NOT a "caster staff" for the more mystic force users.



     

    Agreed, this "expert" has not played Kotor or Kotor 2 then preceedes to tell us how he wants the lore to play? Double bladed lightsabers are everywhere in Kotor. I also made a toon that used two lightsabers in Kotor. This is simply a poorly written article from another SWG whiner. MMORPG has put up a pretty bad article from a poorly informed person.

     

    Kotor & Kotor 2 sold millons. Kotor and Kotor 2 are the best Starwars by far both in reviews as well as sales. This was a pretty low point from MMORPG.

  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    As much as I've enjoyed Bioware games over the years, I'm still convinced that not even they will be able to justice to the Star Wars universe, to the point that a purist such as myself would be satisfied.  Not even George Lucas could manage it the second time around.  This one will doubtlessly go into the pile of all the other Star Wars wannabe, IP-exploitation trash.  It may even play well and be a good game in its own rights, but I just don't believe it will be Star Wars.

    Prove me wrong, Bioware.

  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074
    Originally posted by Unlight


    As much as I've enjoyed Bioware games over the years, I'm still convinced that not even they will be able to justice to the Star Wars universe, to the point that a purist such as myself would be satisfied.  Not even George Lucas could manage it the second time around.  This one will doubtlessly go into the pile of all the other Star Wars wannabe, IP-exploitation trash.  It may even play well and be a good game in its own rights, but I just don't believe it will be Star Wars.


    Prove me wrong, Bioware.

     

    I dont share this opinion. I dont share it because even the worst case scenario is awesome (co-op kotor3).

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by Scot


    Having a heavily 'you are the hero' storyline and grouping do not mix. I will predicate now that anyone who likes grouping will find STOR a let down. Look at what AOC did, make you the hero for 20 levels then make grouping more important for the rest of the game. (Still a very solo game mind you).

    I heartily disagree with this sentiment.

     

    You can easily have a "You are A hero" storyline and grouping.  Bioware is doing the necessary work to make it so that in a group everyone still makes decisions on how things pan out.

     

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by Unlight


    As much as I've enjoyed Bioware games over the years, I'm still convinced that not even they will be able to justice to the Star Wars universe, to the point that a purist such as myself would be satisfied.  Not even George Lucas could manage it the second time around.  This one will doubtlessly go into the pile of all the other Star Wars wannabe, IP-exploitation trash.  It may even play well and be a good game in its own rights, but I just don't believe it will be Star Wars.


    Prove me wrong, Bioware.

    Not to your personal vision of the Star Wars universe, perhaps, but true to the Star Wars universe just the same.

     

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by Ozmodan




    Some of you posters expect the MMO you play to do everything for you, make all your choices and lead you by the hand.  where is the challenge in that?  That is what Kotor will be, a lead you by the hand MMO.  Your class and progression already set in stone.  While Bioware will tell a very good story as they always do, there is no freedom to choose in their games.  You play their games they way they want you to or don't play.

    Well, admittedly in Bioware games you have the same major plot-related battles.  However, how you navigated between those fights, what abilities you had in them, and in short, the journey itself could vary wildly depending on the player choices.  All Bioware games are like this.  Though, obviously in their games there are a lot of optional side battles or even battles you can stop or avoid.

     

    Yes, your class to an extent, will be "set in stone" but you CHOOSE what class you want at the beginning.  Your story is has a huge component that is part of that initial choice.

    Now, is this the absolute PERFECT MMO?  No.  My perfect MMO would have enemies with a lot of AI who do things on their own.  GM/Dev driven groups that will continue to act and do things unless they are stopped (and if no one does anything, they become more and more powerful and their position becomes that much harder to stop directly).  It would have a vibrant world that continued on even if the players did nothing.  It would have quests that spontaneously generated when a player got close with people running up to the player and asking for help finding a child, a book, putting out a fire, etc.  The end result would be all that mattered in finishing a quest, and the engine would support player creativity on using objects, deception, bluffing, and all manner of methods for resolving problems.  It would be a huge, expansive world that you could explore and always find new things.

    No, Star Wars: TOR is not going to be my perfect MMO.  But my perfect MMO doesn't exist as the technology just isn't there.  Instead of bashing it for not doing more that no other MMO has ever done, perhaps you should praise it for moving in the right direction.  Players will actually HAVE choices and those choices will make things play out different.  Granted, we won't have all the choices we might like, we won't be able to do every single thing we might possibly want to do.  There's NO MMO that's ever been made that's like that.  Sandboxes aren't like that (they have freedom, but honestly, little in depth story).  A good bit of choice is a heck of a lot better than none.

     

     

  • Sp00shSp00sh Member Posts: 48

    I agree and disagree with a lot of what you have to say.  Being not "that guy" for Star Wars, I mean I love the Original Trilogy and have played my share of Star Wars games...but seriously, this is Bioware's game, they can design what it looks like, they can decide what the classes are.  If you don't like it, play something else or create your own game.  I'm sick of people complaining about it not being the perfect Star Wars game, there will never be the perfect Star Wars game.  Get over it.  Play the game for what it is.

  • maplestonemaplestone Member UncommonPosts: 3,099

    I was going to apply for the beta last year, but I got as far as the game logo with is obvious red-vs-blue theme and realized it wasn't going to be a game for me.

    The games of Star Wars have definitely taken it far, far away from the memories I had as a farmboy staring off across the hayfields at sunsets, dreaming of mattering in the universe.

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