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Question for those who never played Pre-CU SWG...

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  • TonevTonev Member Posts: 462
    Originally posted by kcypher2000


    I got two friends to try it and enjoyed it for a while but the game still lacks polish.  I have played since launch but i am not blind and foolish enough to not recognize how broken pre-cu SWG really was.  Seriously do you guys remember the FOTM class problems compared to the utterly gimped and useless classes.  Game play consisted of waiting in line at starports to get a massive buff so you can grind the same kill X monster missions over and over again. 
    Lets not even bring up the hologrind and how ridiculous that was.  Pre-cu SWG was horrible!  It was like 7 or so years ago!  Get over it!
     
    Btw the game is still pretty dull so i quit after a month again but dull is better than broken.  Flame away.

    The flaw with Star Wars galaxies eventhough they had FOTM classes was this "buffs and armor" those two right there screwed this game up. If the developers had never made it where you had godly primary, secondary and 90% resist armors n place, you would have never seen a Jedi, PvP would have been funner and soloing 100% of the content at basic box 1 would have never happened.

     

    This game should have never been about melee masters and people yielding big ass swords and hammers, comp armor, RIS armor and the such it should have had Rebel and Imperial sets (gained through PvP) combat pets and vehicles like At-St and rebel tanks, to me SOE went in the wrong direction starting with the third or fourth patch (doc, entertainer and armor buffs).

    I hope ToR gets and keeps it right and this game as far as I am concerned is only Star Wars in name.

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905

    Anyone who would want to go back to that crap grinder game needs to have their head examined.

     

    But don't take my word for it, you can go back to 2003 and play in the magical time of "Ground Wars". There is a reason they were desperate to change that game and it's not because it was "to awesome". Anyone who thinks SWG was in good shape before the CU / NGE is a deluded fanboi, the game was losing subs hand over fist. This game was crashing as hard as Warhammer and AoC did recently. The only thing it had was this band cult of followers who "lived" in the grinder and were shattered when they changed it. Now they live in forums.

     

    Seek and ye shall find.

  • PreCUPreCU Member Posts: 382


    Originally posted by Torak
    Anyone who would want to go back to that crap grinder game needs to have their head examined.
     
    But don't take my word for it, you can go back to 2003 and play in the magical time of "Ground Wars". There is a reason they were desperate to change that game and it's not because it was "to awesome". Anyone who thinks SWG was in good shape before the CU / NGE is a deluded fanboi, the game was losing subs hand over fist. This game was crashing as hard as Warhammer and AoC did recently. The only thing it had was this band cult of followers who "lived" in the grinder and were shattered when they changed it. Now they live in forums.
     
    Seek and ye shall find.

    take all the opinion out of this post and I agree with the rest. There were definitely reasons for them to want to change the game. They were losing subs, the game wasn't the kind that could draw a mass market (especially after WoW just redefined what a "mass market" in the mmo world was), and there were lots of gameplay issues.

    try being constructive and mature and you'll be surprised by what us precu vets will agree with.

    back to the topic...

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905
    Originally posted by PreCU


     

    Originally posted by Torak

    Anyone who would want to go back to that crap grinder game needs to have their head examined.

     

    But don't take my word for it, you can go back to 2003 and play in the magical time of "Ground Wars". There is a reason they were desperate to change that game and it's not because it was "to awesome". Anyone who thinks SWG was in good shape before the CU / NGE is a deluded fanboi, the game was losing subs hand over fist. This game was crashing as hard as Warhammer and AoC did recently. The only thing it had was this band cult of followers who "lived" in the grinder and were shattered when they changed it. Now they live in forums.

     

    Seek and ye shall find.

     

    take all the opinion out of this post and I agree with the rest. There were definitely reasons for them to want to change the game. They were losing subs, the game wasn't the kind that could draw a mass market (especially after WoW just redefined what a "mass market" in the mmo world was), and there were lots of gameplay issues.

    try being constructive and mature and you'll be surprised by what us precu vets will agree with.

    back to the topic...

    Sure, I don't think what they did and how they did was the right thing to do BUT...thats all water under the bridge now.

    The game is what it is whatever one's opinion is of that. It's endured longer now then many other MMO's and isn't going anywhere and no one is going to change it back. Sure it will continue to shrink but its an old game now and to be honest it's doing better then games like AoC and War. Aside from us hard core posters here very few people even remember or experienced that old version of SWG.

    I played War until recently and that game is dieing a horrible death in a very short time...like many other new games.

    Fallen Earth was the last holdout for a sandbox and it's dead. There are several games that tried this approach and it just doesn't work using the methods they are trying. People want to play games not live a virtual life. The problem with these old formula games is that they are based on timesinks and not on entertainment.

    Could you make a "fun" sandbox game? Sure but not how these idiots are going about it. No one wants to grind. SWG pre CU was pure grind that rivaled Lineage 2.

    Try not to be so judgemental because it's pretty clear that this is a dead, rotten, beaten to death topic and the SWG vets are no marker for being "constructive" but destructive of the online community and anything but "mature" after 5 years of temper tantrums. No one cares, play E*%.

    Back to the topic

     

  • PreCUPreCU Member Posts: 382

    what is your main argument? All I really know is that you don't like the game. Then you make generalizations about precu vets.

    all I basically said was that I agreed with your non-opinionated points. Are you angry that I didn't agree with your opinions? Which ones?

  • XerithXerith Member Posts: 970

    While I would be extremely excited to get back into a sandbox Star Wars mmo again, I would still remain very weary of SOE.

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member Posts: 3,138
    Originally posted by Torak

    Originally posted by PreCU


     

    Originally posted by Torak

    Anyone who would want to go back to that crap grinder game needs to have their head examined.

     

    But don't take my word for it, you can go back to 2003 and play in the magical time of "Ground Wars". There is a reason they were desperate to change that game and it's not because it was "to awesome". Anyone who thinks SWG was in good shape before the CU / NGE is a deluded fanboi, the game was losing subs hand over fist. This game was crashing as hard as Warhammer and AoC did recently. The only thing it had was this band cult of followers who "lived" in the grinder and were shattered when they changed it. Now they live in forums.

     

    Seek and ye shall find.

     

    take all the opinion out of this post and I agree with the rest. There were definitely reasons for them to want to change the game. They were losing subs, the game wasn't the kind that could draw a mass market (especially after WoW just redefined what a "mass market" in the mmo world was), and there were lots of gameplay issues.

    try being constructive and mature and you'll be surprised by what us precu vets will agree with.

    back to the topic...

    Sure, I don't think what they did and how they did was the right thing to do BUT...thats all water under the bridge now.

    The game is what it is whatever one's opinion is of that. It's endured longer now then many other MMO's and isn't going anywhere and no one is going to change it back. Sure it will continue to shrink but its an old game now and to be honest it's doing better then games like AoC and War. Aside from us hard core posters here very few people even remember or experienced that old version of SWG.

    I played War until recently and that game is dieing a horrible death in a very short time...like many other new games.

    Fallen Earth was the last holdout for a sandbox and it's dead. There are several games that tried this approach and it just doesn't work using the methods they are trying. People want to play games not live a virtual life. The problem with these old formula games is that they are based on timesinks and not on entertainment.

    Could you make a "fun" sandbox game? Sure but not how these idiots are going about it. No one wants to grind. SWG pre CU was pure grind that rivaled Lineage 2.

    Try not to be so judgemental because it's pretty clear that this is a dead, rotten, beaten to death topic and the SWG vets are no marker for being "constructive" but destructive of the online community and anything but "mature" after 5 years of temper tantrums. No one cares, play E*%.

    Back to the topic

     

     

    I'd disagree with that. There is a sizeable audience out there who'd enjoy a more sim-like MMO than the arcade AAA titles that are being pushed out today. Enough of a demand to be initially profittable IF it is done well, which all MMOs seem to be suffering from not having this trait at launch.

    I enjoyed the heck out of pre-NGE's crafting system. I didn't engage in PvP so I don't have a first hand opinion on that combat. The PvE combat was nothing worse that I've seen in prior titles. People kited Giants in EQ and they kited Kryats in SWG. *shrug*

    As far as timesinks and entertainment, I guess it just depends on the individual. I found plenty of entertainment in SWG being able to create the story of my doctor, building a pharmaceutical mini-empire. Sure, it took time, and SWG didn't have the instant gratification entertainment of every 5-10 minutes "BOOM SHINY!!!!. But, yeah, I had fun. Not everyone did, I know, but that's the nature of MMOs. One man's trash is another man's treasure. It's like you said, don't be judgmental. A game you think is awesome is at the bottom of someone else's crap pile.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member Posts: 3,138
    Originally posted by Xerith


    While I would be extremely excited to get back into a sandbox Star Wars mmo again, I would still remain very weary of SOE.

     

    Hehe, oh, I'll never (take it to Vegas) play another SOE game. They made it clear with the NGE they didn't want me as a customer. That's cool. It's their game. It's also my money and I'm not under any obligation to play anything else they create. Thankfully they aren't working on anything that even remotely catches my interest, lol!

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • TonevTonev Member Posts: 462
    Originally posted by Torak

    Originally posted by PreCU


     

    Originally posted by Torak

    Anyone who would want to go back to that crap grinder game needs to have their head examined.

     

    But don't take my word for it, you can go back to 2003 and play in the magical time of "Ground Wars". There is a reason they were desperate to change that game and it's not because it was "to awesome". Anyone who thinks SWG was in good shape before the CU / NGE is a deluded fanboi, the game was losing subs hand over fist. This game was crashing as hard as Warhammer and AoC did recently. The only thing it had was this band cult of followers who "lived" in the grinder and were shattered when they changed it. Now they live in forums.

     

    Seek and ye shall find.

     

    take all the opinion out of this post and I agree with the rest. There were definitely reasons for them to want to change the game. They were losing subs, the game wasn't the kind that could draw a mass market (especially after WoW just redefined what a "mass market" in the mmo world was), and there were lots of gameplay issues.

    try being constructive and mature and you'll be surprised by what us precu vets will agree with.

    back to the topic...

    Sure, I don't think what they did and how they did was the right thing to do BUT...thats all water under the bridge now.

    The game is what it is whatever one's opinion is of that. It's endured longer now then many other MMO's and isn't going anywhere and no one is going to change it back. Sure it will continue to shrink but its an old game now and to be honest it's doing better then games like AoC and War. Aside from us hard core posters here very few people even remember or experienced that old version of SWG.

     

    I played War until recently and that game is dieing a horrible death in a very short time...like many other new games.

    Fallen Earth was the last holdout for a sandbox and it's dead. There are several games that tried this approach and it just doesn't work using the methods they are trying. People want to play games not live a virtual life. The problem with these old formula games is that they are based on timesinks and not on entertainment.

    Could you make a "fun" sandbox game? Sure but not how these idiots are going about it. No one wants to grind. SWG pre CU was pure grind that rivaled Lineage 2.

    Try not to be so judgemental because it's pretty clear that this is a dead, rotten, beaten to death topic and the SWG vets are no marker for being "constructive" but destructive of the online community and anything but "mature" after 5 years of temper tantrums. No one cares, play E*%.

    Back to the topic

     

    A lot of this I disagree with and find completely "not researched" Torak. I'm a SWG veteran and I'll be the first to tell you the pre CU game was flawed as hell (Swordsman beating a At-St to death with a hammer) the only class in the game that made me actually feel heroic was the Jedi class pre CU (reason it was called a Alpha).

     

    One big flaw and I stand behind this was the fact that melee was king in this game (TKM, Swordsma,Fencer,  melee stackers) and with the exception of few across many servers that had epic ranged weapons (everyone should have had this) could not compete. They tried to make every class in the game PvP/PvE orientated and did horribly with it (2 minute duration warcry, 2 minute duration intimidate, and non existent GCW "where in the hell was the rewards you see now for the GCW?".

     

    Reason so many vets are mad, pissed and such is that the developers at the time with 200kish members being some what stable for the game (dropped from 300kish subs to 200kish in 10 months was it) panic the hell out of them and caused the NGE.

    One question I remember a developers answering as why and what major decision was asked when they decided to make Daiblo/Star WOW Galaxies and this was said the 200k we have now are those  dregs weirdos so, let's change it to a game that we know has over 1 million subs (ala WOW).

    People are not pissed at SWG at what it has become FPS for simple minds, but how it was done (200kish angry people is a lot in the MMO community man). I will admit, while the current NGE does have its points (i haven't seen anyone doing "Kirk Fu" on 60 Storm trooper NPCs) the loss of immersion in this game when stepping off the station is pretty quick.

     

    P.S.

    I also think you are wrong in regards to people "NOT" wanting to play in a virtual world also, it is just like going to a movie and not being immersed in it for the 90 minutes or so you are watching it. A game restrictive by invisible walls, not being able to swim or even sit down at a table will lose customers faster than one that actually allows that dynamic.

  • jacklojacklo Member Posts: 570

    IMHO preCU was good, CU was better but NGE killed a beautiful game.

    Don't get me wrong, I still played NGE for a few years but it never felt the same.

    I would go back to preNGE today, without Mustafar, Heroic Encounters, Collections, Card Game lol, Hoth.

    And 60% of population a Jedi... well that was just a kick in the teeth for anyone who played preNGE.

    I firmly believe there is a market for preNGE SWG. Unfortunately SWGemu has taken too long and would never have the numbers that an official game would have.

    Such a shame, but I'm proud to have played this game which I still regard as the best MMO ever made.

    /salute my old friends :)

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,772

    I am doing my second stint of SWG and i really want to get involved but i'm afraid of investing in a place with a dying server like i did in RoM. For me NCsoft = SOE. NCsoft is the worst ever. I'd rather touch a herpes infested prostitute with every STD under the sun than play an NCsoft game.

    Also, Torak is my boy!!!!!!!!!!!! . . . I have a thought that the amount of subs a game gets is based on the following factors.

    1) the polish (lack of bugs, broken elements, everything works well, looks great, runs smoothly, etc)
    2) The hype and advertisement
    3) and distantly customer service

    The truth is that WoW sucks, but it does amazingly well in all 3 of those categories. Lineage 2 was very popular and it had 1) for sure and a bit of 2 but the worst 3) and it got subs. Aion = Lineage 2 with a different skin, inexplicable how it can even have a population in my opinion, but it has 1) and 2).

    That's my theory. For any new company that makes a game, make sure it's not broken and then advertise and you'll get subs :).

    I have a lvl 25 crafter on trial account in SWG . . . for some odd reason i'm not getting addicted to it. I got addicted immediately to RoM when i played it cuz i had 1) for sure. I just tried FE and it's pretty good but didn't addict me . . . must be some weird X-factor.

    I'm interested in the history off MMO's, why did Warhammer crash so badly?

    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • TheShimmersTheShimmers Member Posts: 76
    Originally posted by Cryomatrix


     I just tried FE and it's pretty good but didn't addict me . . . must be some weird X-factor.
     

     

    I feel the same way which is a shame. I just can't place what it is in FE that can't hook me even though it is an amazing game. I have a feeling a year or two from now it will be a different story :)

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Member Posts: 2,096

    No interest what-so-ever.

    Leading up to launch, the game was panned in my native EQ, and basically anywhere folks looked.

    It appealed to sandboxers, and those with a luv for SW(which I would be included).

    Had it not been known as such a clusterfrak leading up to launch, I would of tried it. Instead I waited until CU era, and it still was a steaming pile IMO.

    I am glad they are finally launching a SW MMO(TOR)...instead of a SW reality devoid of what I deem as "content".

    Regrinding profs, PvP, and a trader-centric economy is pretty much what I dont want in a MMO.

    Since SWG was part of the All Access Pass I used to carry, I had hopes NGE would set things right. We all know how that went.

    Great IP...shame they wasted it on a terrible implementation. I will always feel Koster tried to instill too much into it...rather than making a game for folks to enjoy. I see he is taking his Metaplace into a new arena which is great IMO. His ideas for MMO gaming greatly differ from the way I would do things. Glad to see we wont dealing with his "wonderfull ideas" anytime in the near future.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • stinneystinney Member Posts: 35
    Originally posted by Angorim


    I missed out on the opportunity to play Pre-CU SWG, and from everything I've heard I am almost glad I did not.  I would probably be even more bitterly jaded by SoE then I already am (Planetside refugee from years ago).
     
    Edit: Forgot to actually answer the question, lol.
    Yes I would try it today if it was the same or very similar game that was offered.  And this is coming from someone who was never really a Star Wars fan.

     

    I actually hadnt watched the Star Wars movies until AFTER I had played SWG.

    I 'm a huge Xwing / Tie Fighter series fan, and I only got into SWG because I wanted to Pilot a Tie Interceptor. It took ages  to achieve this because the ground game was so great. I did however acheive it once the NGE struck. I couldnt play the ground any more, an space was fast becoming full of superior ships from an inferior timeline. Basically rewards for buying expansions.

    JTL was how I played out my subscription. I then gave ALL my stuff away to a newbie who had only played since the NGE, and I quit and only went back once with a free pass.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,457
    Originally posted by Samkin772


    I started about 2 weeks after release:
    If they 1) went back to Pre-NGE, and 2) took away Jedi, or 3) allowed Bounty Hunters to hunt Jedi via player driven contracts and game driven contracts, I would re-sub in a heartbeat



     

    Probably one of the reasons I wouldn't play it.

    I realize that many old SWG players are into setting up farms or mining or some of the social things but when Star Wars first came out we all gathered around and talked about how cool Jedi were, the light saber battles, people identified with Han Solo or Darth Vader and of course people loved the idea of Boba Fett in the Second movie.

    No one was talking about how cool it would be to set up a farm or sit in the tavern listening to the band.

    To us Star Wars was a space adventure. And lest people forget, there was nothing out like it before or at the time it was released. It blew our minds as prior to that we had what? Buck Rogers? Flash Gordon? And I'm not talking about Buck Rogers with Gil Gerard or the movie Flash Gordon.

    A friend of mine played SWG and thought it horrid. He said it was like a second job that he wasn't getting paid for.

    I realize there are people who love pre cu swg but for my tastes and to answer the question in the title "no" I don't see anytihng in SWG that would interest me.

     




  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Samkin772


    I started about 2 weeks after release:
    If they 1) went back to Pre-NGE, and 2) took away Jedi, or 3) allowed Bounty Hunters to hunt Jedi via player driven contracts and game driven contracts, I would re-sub in a heartbeat

    I would too. Jedi can be elites but bring perma death if they are available to players. I mean perma death both for the Jedi and the BH.



      

    A friend of mine played SWG and thought it horrid. He said it was like a second job that he wasn't getting paid for. 

     

    It was indeed a second job especially grinding professions or managing harvesters. I would lower the XP requirement and add features to make crafting less tedious. But that was fun.

    I guess few players still reminds at a time crafters were able to colorize item names. It was such a little thing but made a huge game play difference.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by Deewe

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Samkin772


    I started about 2 weeks after release:
    If they 1) went back to Pre-NGE, and 2) took away Jedi, or 3) allowed Bounty Hunters to hunt Jedi via player driven contracts and game driven contracts, I would re-sub in a heartbeat

    I would too. Jedi can be elites but bring perma death if they are available to players. I mean perma death both for the Jedi and the BH.



      

    A friend of mine played SWG and thought it horrid. He said it was like a second job that he wasn't getting paid for. 

     

    It was indeed a second job especially grinding professions or managing harvesters. I would lower the XP requirement and add features to make crafting less tedious. But that was fun.

    I guess few players still reminds at a time crafters were able to colorize item names. It was such a little thing but made a huge game play difference.

     

    With the exceptions of BH and jedi in the old days, there was not any "grinding" of professions as there is in the current game. You could easily go from 1 temp to another in a week or less, without heavy grinding. Heck, many people I know did all of their temp changing when they went out on hunting trips, since they were killing all that stuff anyway. For crafters, yes, there was a small grind to get to master, but back then, there were things you could actually sell as a non-master and gain xp while doing normal crafting as well.

    BH took a long, long time for the single and simple reason that the missions were so atrociously bugged. Marks not spawning, spawning in the water, inside building geometry, being not attackable, etc etc was the problem and that was TOTALLY on SOE for not fixing it.

    Jedi was long in the pre-9 days, because at the beginning, Jedi initiates were very weak, and had a very small force bar. Things got faster as you went along. Plus had permadeath, and had universal TEF if you fired up your saber in public.

     

    That game was much better than the current system, because of choice. If I didn't want to PvP, I could PvE or hunt or prospect for resources or do space. There was so much to do, I never had to look for anything to do. All of the "new content" could have been added into that world, instead of destroying it first. Had that happened, I have no doubt many more people would be playing.

     

     

  • KylrathinKylrathin Member Posts: 426
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Samkin772


    I started about 2 weeks after release:
    If they 1) went back to Pre-NGE, and 2) took away Jedi, or 3) allowed Bounty Hunters to hunt Jedi via player driven contracts and game driven contracts, I would re-sub in a heartbeat



     

    Probably one of the reasons I wouldn't play it.

    I realize that many old SWG players are into setting up farms or mining or some of the social things but when Star Wars first came out we all gathered around and talked about how cool Jedi were, the light saber battles, people identified with Han Solo or Darth Vader and of course people loved the idea of Boba Fett in the Second movie.

    No one was talking about how cool it would be to set up a farm or sit in the tavern listening to the band.

    To us Star Wars was a space adventure. And lest people forget, there was nothing out like it before or at the time it was released. It blew our minds as prior to that we had what? Buck Rogers? Flash Gordon? And I'm not talking about Buck Rogers with Gil Gerard or the movie Flash Gordon.

    A friend of mine played SWG and thought it horrid. He said it was like a second job that he wasn't getting paid for.

    I realize there are people who love pre cu swg but for my tastes and to answer the question in the title "no" I don't see anytihng in SWG that would interest me.

     

    Makes sense to me that there are people who wouldn't play it if Jedi weren't a starting class, as we've hit over 4 years where it's been available.  What's interesting is the number of people who DID play when it wasn't a starting class, vs. now that it is.  That might be the subject of a part 2 to this thread in and of itself, though.

     

    The biggest drawback to pre-CU was that there wasn't enough directed content for the combat-types that wanted it.  There were quests you could do, themepark-type things or even shorter quests, but otherwise the only people who would tell you where to go and what to shoot were your squad or guild leaders.  Early on there were a LOT of battles, really epic ones, on most servers between Bestine and Anchorhead, or within Theed or Coronet, or later on even within player cities or remote bases.  There was plenty of content to keep you busy if neither farming nor dancing, etc. was anything you were into.  True, you would end up having to spend 10 minutes in a cantina ever so often to remove your battle fatigue, but to me that seemed like a small price to pay.  Usually those who complained about that were typically the hardcore griefers, which was ironic since those who made other people their own content were ticked off at being made into content themselves.

    One thing to consider is that Star Wars didn't just come out.  Prior to the prequels, we had 20+ years to marinate in the movies and extended universe content.  When SWG was released, it was just over 26 years since the first movie was released.  People had a lot of opportunity to think about not only the surface stuff, such as the action-oriented things you mentioned, but also the deeper daydreams - "wouldn't it be cool to live on Tatooine?", etc.  I always loved that aspect of it.

    There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum

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