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TERA Plagiarized Lineage 3

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  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,105

    The court has not made a final judgment on the cause no one knows yet what bluehole need to pay to ncsoft this is all assumptions that ncsoft only doing it for money when it's a company to get money...

    They wasted lot's of money to create the coding for lineage 3 and lineage 3 was canceled because of those people that took the coding with them and see what happened they used it on tera.


  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by rhinok

    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by drbaltazar


    so baggs you are telling me that the   
    TERA Plagiarized Lineage 3 is wrong !nice to know korean court is wrong!(they found bhs guilty.)

     

    No.

    I only said i find it ok since NCsoft only went after the money and not the code.

    Don't you find it weird that the verdict mentions nothing about the code? And its only a money fine?

    To me that simply shows that there are other reasons behind this ordeal between the two companies.

     

     

    And to answer one of your earlier posts:

    No.

    BHS members were not fired from NCsoft. I was wrong about that.

    I searched about it and only 1 guy was fired, the lead developer of Lineage 3.

    He was fired by NCsoft with the reason of "bad leadership".

    Surprisingly, right after his team learned about it, all 80 of them resigned.

    They took the code with them. ( the reason is unknown, we will never know why )

    NCsoft shuts down the Lineage 3 project.

    Then the people who left NCsoft founded BlueHole Studios.

    And then began working on TERA.

    TERA is now almost ready and NCsoft decides they want money from their ex-employees.

    Both sides go to court, BHS gets a 1.7 million USD fine, no mention of the infamous "stolen code".

     

     

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Its not a story i made up, its facts posted by credible sources all over the internet, took me a few days to find and read.

    nono your right about the event!its not the first time mcsoft sue that pack tho i think its their tird time sometime its a bunch of ex-employe,other time its others etc.

    and the fact bhs is going in supreme court means ncsoft might show some teeth this time around.remember that back then the money wasnt going in since they were dev aion.now thats finished and money as flowing fluently

    so they will probably ask court to shut down the game tera or tera be asked to pay monthly royalty fee for the code instead to ncosft.plus the fine

    (in my view it will probably be the later)

     

    Aion is not being developed anymore? wtf?

    NCsoft sued these people in the past and still kept them working for the company just to sue them again later?

     

    Lmao you are deluded.

    Have a nice day in your imaginary world.

     

    To the rest of you :

    The highlighted blue text explains everything.

    That's assuming you have a fully functional brain.

    NCSoft didn't suddenly decide they wanted money now that TERA is almost complete.  These lawsuits don't happen, and especially reach conclusion, overnight.  This has been going on for a couple of  years.  it's news now because TERA is almost ready.

    To quote mklinic:

    " take a step back and look a little harder. This is a plagerization case. This case was tried in court and the developers were found guilty in both criminal and civil court. So, regardless of your perception of the issue, legal authorities have made the determination based on more evidence then you and I are seeing. You might not like it if you are a TERA fan, but it does not change the fact that the developers have broken applicable laws and been punished accordingly.

    Now, with that said, the write-up says they are appealing. If they win the appeal, then come back and say "I told you so" to everyone who disagrees with you. Right now though, you are speaking from a very uninformed standpoint regarding copyright and code ownership."

     

    ~Ripper

     

     

    ty for putting in proper english my thinking on this !

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by rhinok


    NCSoft didn't suddenly decide they wanted money now that TERA is almost complete.  These lawsuits don't happen, and especially reach conclusion, overnight.  This has been going on for a couple of  years.  it's news now because TERA is almost ready.
    To quote mklinic:
    " take a step back and look a little harder. This is a plagerization case. This case was tried in court and the developers were found guilty in both criminal and civil court. So, regardless of your perception of the issue, legal authorities have made the determination based on more evidence then you and I are seeing. You might not like it if you are a TERA fan, but it does not change the fact that the developers have broken applicable laws and been punished accordingly.
    Now, with that said, the write-up says they are appealing. If they win the appeal, then come back and say "I told you so" to everyone who disagrees with you. Right now though, you are speaking from a very uninformed standpoint regarding copyright and code ownership."

     
    ~Ripper

     

     

    Yeah everyone understands that.

    Those found guilty even have 2 years before they face imprisonment or have to pay the 1.7million USD fine.

    They even asked for an appeal and who knows they might win. ( highly doubt it )

     

    I'm not some die hard BHS fanboy, i didn't even know they existed a week ago.

    This whole thing tho, has caught my eye and triggered my curiosity.

    And judging NCsoft by how they treat their customers, i don't even want to begin to imagine how they treat their employees.

    I mean there's got to be a serious reason behind all this.

    Its not like someone woke up one day and went " LOLZ lets steal the SDK and run with it ".

    There had to be inner conflict inside the company for something like that to happen.

    You cant fire someone and say he's a bad leader and moments later 80 people resign and follow him.

     

    It just doesn't make sense.

    Something's missing.

     

    mm if the ex-boss that was fired treatened ncsoft in any way rest assured its automaticly the door

    explain,argue,discuss yes.but everytime any employ say if you dont do it my way ill take the door most oft the time

    its downhill from then on!the rest of the gang folloing him means one thing .those ex-employe filled their pocket on the side

    at the expense of ncsoft.and if they had stayed they would have been caught also by ncsoft with a new boss

    i bet from now on boss of various ncsoft will change very often to prevent that from happening again in the futur!

    good thing aion was released so it will give ncsoft 3 year to turn around and settle all this bull!

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Baggs


     
    I mean there's got to be a serious reason behind all this.
    Its not like someone woke up one day and went " LOLZ lets steal the SDK and run with it ".
    There had to be inner conflict inside the company for something like that to happen.

     

    Is it just a search for dirt and drama at this point? Everything else seems to have been explained to you rather clearly by several people.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Baggs


     
    I mean there's got to be a serious reason behind all this.
    Its not like someone woke up one day and went " LOLZ lets steal the SDK and run with it ".
    There had to be inner conflict inside the company for something like that to happen.

     

    Is it just a search for dirt and drama at this point? Everything else seems to have been explained to you rather clearly by several people.

     

    Nobody explained me anything.

    Simply because i never asked for something to be explained to me.

     

    I did my own research on this and i consider myself fully capable to draw my own conclusions and furthermore support whoever i believe deserves it.

    And its definitely not NCsoft.

    Yes,  you're definitely more capable of reaching an intelligent conclusion than a court who's examined actual evidence in both a criminal and civil case. Fascinating - please give us your thoughts on the earth being flat, the Kennedy assassination, Area 51 and the Bermuda triangle, too :P .

    ~Ripper

  • uohaloranuohaloran Member Posts: 811

    I smiled reading this.

  • synnsynn Member UncommonPosts: 550
    Originally posted by leumasx7


    i lol. If bliz was a korean company, and sue'd them for a wow clone, they prob would win. South korea is messed up in the head. Legalizing gold farming/selling companies. And now saying this is a lineage clone. NC-SOFT prob wanted another game in lineage line or they know aion players will go there, or won't play their new mmo they are working on.
    lol...blizz is the one that clones other games. A majority of their game is just ideas implemented in previous games.
    Ok actually read more of it. If the people who left NC-SOFT created the code anyway, i think that should lessen a fee. Yes it was created for NC-SOFT, but they created it? (If this is so). For NC-SOFT just wanting money... Sigh, grievers. Always about the money now days.
    if you paid a group of people to develop something for you and they left your company and took what they developed and used it to their benefit without your knowing would you be upset? business is business.
     
    I hope TERA can be released, had hopes for it. And also, lineage 3 wouldn't be this good, cuz NC-SOFT is so dull, and they lack missing elements to make it a good game.
    I want tera to be released also but for me to say i don't enjoy NCsoft games would be a lie. I don't care for the grind that comes with some of the games but didn't botherme as much as it seems to bother alot of other players.



     

  • LurvLurv Member UncommonPosts: 405

    This has got to be one of the longest MMO threads with the longest of quotes I've seen in a whiles. I don't even care who did what anymore. It is my understanding that a verdict is still up in the air however Tera will still be launched and $1.7 million obviously isn't going to throw their schedule off. So now we just wait on the first beta.

    New build in progress.
    Stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798
    Originally posted by r3zs1ckn3ss


    This has got to be one of the longest MMO threads with the longest of quotes I've seen in a whiles. I don't even care who did what anymore. It is my understanding that a verdict is still up in the air however Tera will still be launched and $1.7 million obviously isn't going to throw their schedule off. So now we just wait on the first beta.

    A verdict is not up in the air.  They were found guilty.  They're appealing, but they're still guilty until that ruling is overturned (if ever).

    ~Ripper

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,017

    I'm going to throw my 2p out here:

    1) I can understand where Baggs is coming from. He believes (I think) that since the code or whatever was designed in the minds and imagination of human people that even though they were hired and paid by NCSoft that when they were let go anything that they designed for NCSoft should revert to them since NCS did not want either them or their code. But when it started to become a viable game NCS wants in on the action. IP's can be very tricky sometimes!

    2) People will sign anything to get a job! I'm not a scientist or Tech Guy or whatever but you could NEVER talk me into signing ANYTHING that would restrict me in any way during and especially after I left! Seriously? You would sign a contract saying that you can't work for x amount of years in your chosen field that you spent years of college and money to learn? Money talks I guess!

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    m park was sentenced to 1.5 year in prison and 2 year probation,since he didnt respect probabation(according to the judge)

    ncsoft can (and probably will)sue mr park because he didnt respect his 2 year probabation.one thing is sure those 4 arent out of court for a very long while!

  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    Originally posted by bartoni33


    I'm going to throw my 2p out here:
    1) I can understand where Baggs is coming from. He believes (I think) that since the code or whatever was designed in the minds and imagination of human people that even though they were hired and paid by NCSoft that when they were let go anything that they designed for NCSoft should revert to them since NCS did not want either them or their code. But when it started to become a viable game NCS wants in on the action. IP's can be very tricky sometimes!
    2) People will sign anything to get a job! I'm not a scientist or Tech Guy or whatever but you could NEVER talk me into signing ANYTHING that would restrict me in any way during and especially after I left! Seriously? You would sign a contract saying that you can't work for x amount of years in your chosen field that you spent years of college and money to learn? Money talks I guess!

     

    For as much as I would like it to be so, gaming companies are very ruthless regarding this, anything you do with work tools and/or during work ours belongs to them this is the way it has been for years, as a programmer you have absolutely no rights when you start in one of these big companies, I for one had to sign several NDA's and pretty much give my rights to anything I write that might even be related to what I do at work, there are a few loopholes around this, but most of the time you are pretty much owned by the hiring company.

    image

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,105

    Seems the ones complaining can't read...

    The court has not made a final judgment! what there is linked in the first page and by some others is only a part of the court it's not all.

    Just wait and see what it will be the whole fine they will have to pay/do before spouting out assumptions.


  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by rav3n2

    Originally posted by bartoni33


    I'm going to throw my 2p out here:
    1) I can understand where Baggs is coming from. He believes (I think) that since the code or whatever was designed in the minds and imagination of human people that even though they were hired and paid by NCSoft that when they were let go anything that they designed for NCSoft should revert to them since NCS did not want either them or their code. But when it started to become a viable game NCS wants in on the action. IP's can be very tricky sometimes!
    2) People will sign anything to get a job! I'm not a scientist or Tech Guy or whatever but you could NEVER talk me into signing ANYTHING that would restrict me in any way during and especially after I left! Seriously? You would sign a contract saying that you can't work for x amount of years in your chosen field that you spent years of college and money to learn? Money talks I guess!

     

    For as much as I would like it to be so, gaming companies are very ruthless regarding this, anything you do with work tools and/or during work ours belongs to them this is the way it has been for years, as a programmer you have absolutely no rights when you start in one of these big companies, I for one had to sign several NDA's and pretty much give my rights to anything I write that might even be related to what I do at work, there are a few loopholes around this, but most of the time you are pretty much owned by the hiring company.

     

    No shit Sherlock...

     

    But you wouldn't wake up one morning, decide you don't want to work for a company anymore and just take a HDD with you on the way out.

    They must have treated you like a piece of shit, or tried to fuck you up somehow in order for you to act like that.

     

     

     

    Also, nobody has answered.

    If somebody steals your car, are you just going to ask the court to either put him in jail or pay you money?

     

    It obviously applies to anything stolen from you, you would want it back.

    Unless -guess what- it was something invaluable.

     

    Apparently, judging from the current verdict, BHS was found guilty in court for stealing something from NCsoft but NCsoft doesn't want it back !

    Hmmmm.

    If something like that doesn't smell fishy to you, then i don't know what to say, i give up.

     

    Stick a fork in me, i'm done.

     

    Laws are different for software than for material stuff like Cars, I saw this happen at Lionhead with the guys from Media Molecule they created Rag Doll kung fu during lunch hours at LH and after they left they had this massive battle with microsoft because they wanted to take the code with them yet MS contracts are made so they own everything you do sometimes even outside work hours, they did win in the end and LH did not take a dime of Ragdoll kung fu.

    image

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    digital or actual properety or right dont know the term in english. ncsoft ,and countless amount of mmo maker are being sued why

    because a genious in the 80s or 90 dont recall exact date .patended what every computer user do today everything

    it was a chimera back then but some smart ass said lets patent this on the off hand chance it acrtually become reality

    the group sold the patent to a bunch of other guys .you know what the the sole work of that group

    suing firm for copyright style infringement(microsoft was sueed by them,microsoft didnt bother they paid and now are ok)

    can you imagine that firm can sue any company etc etc etc in the world.

    only reason they dont suis linux is because its a shadow os.

    oh it exist you can see it but its not the work of one company(even tho a lot wished it was and are trying very hard to

    copyright it !

    the fact is linux is a shadow os .and open source everybody polish it etc

    the only reason why linux isnt bigger then ms  or apple os right now is because of only one reason

    there is not some kind of os builder easy to use with tip like use this for streaming use this to play mmo

    but its only a mather of time before sutch a open source tool exist once that happen

    it will spell the demise of other os .since not one person own linux everybody own linux lol!

  • LurvLurv Member UncommonPosts: 405

    *Sticks fork in you*

    Meh. Still about medium rare.

    Anyways. They're sued. Great. Now where the #$%@ is my game?

    New build in progress.
    Stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Kaliber13Kaliber13 Member Posts: 39
    Originally posted by drbaltazar


    poster 98 !a game using main stuff from another (in this case ncsoft)never work smoothly why
    because a lot of stuff wasnt in the game when they left and the stuff that isnt there will have to be patched
    .its like asking ferary to make a nice car their builder go to lada with the plan from the new car without material
    and all other spec.yes they will try to make that car but it wont be a joy ride when you hop in the car
    it will bhe more like a tractor ride ,when you plow the field.same thing for tera will happens.then they ll find all kind of excuse like of we had issue etc of caurse you had issue lol you ll have 50% more issue then if you would have made your own !
    i couldnt care less anyway i wont play it ,and im not the only one that feel this way .

    What are u talkin about man? I dont think anyone understood that...

  • SafaiaSafaia Member Posts: 12

    I disagree with that court decision for 2 reasons:

    A programmer who leaves a company has his experience as capital to make finding a new job easy? According to that law they have not. They are not allowed to use their experience to program something that has the potential to compete with their former company. They are not allowed to use what THEY have developed and their former boss refused to use. Tell me, how sick is that? Programmers leaving a company have the option to do something completely different or do what they know best and break the law.

    That is like disallowing a mason to build a house after he has built the first one.

    At a point, all MMORPG's use thesame techniques. A lot of them use external built graphic engines like Granny or the RenderWare Engine. So it is natural that they use similar structures in their code. Most MMORPG's use a race/class/abilities structure and have a leveling system. They have values for strength, dextery, intelligence and constitution. Someone who has programmed such a system can easily implement another one without taking the code from the first. Plus the second one is better in most cases because he avoids the mistakes he made in the first one.

  • ScalebaneScalebane Member UncommonPosts: 1,880

    Well if NC takes control of the game i won't even bother with it at that point.

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by r3zs1ckn3ss


    *Sticks fork in you*
    Meh. Still about medium rare.


    Anyways. They're sued. Great. Now where the #$%@ is my game?

     

    ncsoft will ask bluehole studio andthat gang for royaltys for that game once they are found guilty

    its the whole reason for suing them they wont ask just for the paltry million its costed them more then that in a quater to dev.

    lineage 3 code lol.i wonder how it will end.i do hope korean court are exemplary on this mather and chose a ruling that will protect game maker like ncsoft!they need to be protected from all the shark

    cant make a game!then dont be a game devlopper it cost a lot to dev a mmo.dev a new chess game instead for facebook

    gees!why  bluehole and ex-ncsoft did this is beyond me.it must have been a freakkingly good program to be worth being

    plagiarized!

  • ScalebaneScalebane Member UncommonPosts: 1,880
    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    Originally posted by r3zs1ckn3ss


    *Sticks fork in you*
    Meh. Still about medium rare.


    Anyways. They're sued. Great. Now where the #$%@ is my game?

     

    ncsoft will ask bluehole studio andthat gang for royaltys for that game once they are found guilty

    its the whole reason for suing them they wont ask just for the paltry million its costed them more then that in a quater to dev.

    lineage 3 code lol.i wonder how it will end.i do hope korean court are exemplary on this mather and chose a ruling that will protect game maker like ncsoft!they need to be protected from all the shark

    cant make a game!then dont be a game devlopper it cost a lot to dev a mmo.dev a new chess game instead for facebook

    gees!why  bluehole and ex-ncsoft did this is beyond me.it must have been a freakkingly good program to be worth being

    plagiarized!

     

    Perhaps they did it because NC treats their employees like shit? who knows right heh. (not saying its right to take code, but then again i find it funny people condemning them for taking code when everyone in this topic probably illegally downloads music n such)

    Anyways if NC gets to own the game they will just screw it up so i won't bother with it, they are better off just taking some cash and leaving it at that.

    I'm just hoping they change the code and won't have to sell out to NCFail

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • sschruppsschrupp Member UncommonPosts: 548
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by ProfRed


    NICE!  I thought... how could a country let someone blatantly steal a games source code and make a new game for profit with it.  Maybe NCSoft will buy up Tera and release it...
     
    The thieves deserves everything coming to them.


     

     

    Get your facts straight.

    Those people who you call thieves were in fact FIRED from NCsoft.

    Would you leave the code you put hard work for months if not years behind for someone to exploit and make millions of it?

     

    No you wouldn't.

     

     

    What i just read is simply outrageous, i will never buy anything published by NCsoft no matter how good it might look or in fact be.

     

    I'm sure somewhere in all these pages someone has already said this, but just in case...

    When you work for a company it's standard practice that any work you do, including ideas, is property of the company, not you. Any coding done for the game belongs to NCSoft, not the employees who did the programming. In fact many jobs make you sign a waiver stating that you can not legally work in another job using the same skills or in direct competition for a certain length of time.

    I'm a programmer and thought this kind of sucked when I first began, but after a number of years you just accept it.

  • jrs77jrs77 Member Posts: 419

    If you work for a company and code something while working for them, you are not allowed to take anything done so far with you, when you leave. And that only includes written code stored on a HDD or disk, aswell as other forms of media like papers etc.

    You still have all this ideas and solutions you came up with in your head tho, and you can't delete your memory unfortunately.

    So, what the developers, who got fired from NC did, they started all over again from scratch, but they had all those stuff inside their head, which they used ofc.

    If NC is stoopid enough, to fire all those creative people, then it's their own fault. If anything, they should've doubled their sallary instead, to keep them and their "brainpower".

    General ideas are plagiarized every day, and aslong as you don't actually copy them 1:1 there's nothing hindering you from doing it. There's no laws preventing anyone from using general ideas, and that's all the devs of TERA did: they took all the general ideas with them, they had in their heads, without actually stealing something like a HDD or disk with the code stored on it.

     

    Now, the korean court has made a verdict, that 7 former NCSoft-employees, who showed some of the sourcecode to a japanese company during a job-interview has to pay 1.7 Million USD to NCSoft, for violating intellectual property, but this is not the last call.

    Bluehole Studios tho, is not the one that got sued by NCSoft. That's false information. It's just some employees of Bluehole Studios.

  • WisebutCruelWisebutCruel Member Posts: 1,089
    Originally posted by jrs77


    If you work for a company and code something while working for them, you are not allowed to take anything done so far with you, when you leave. And that only includes written code stored on a HDD or disk, aswell as other forms of media like papers etc.
    You still have all this ideas and solutions you came up with in your head tho, and you can't delete your memory unfortunately.
    So, what the developers, who got fired from NC did, they started all over again from scratch, but they had all those stuff inside their head, which they used ofc.
    If NC is stoopid enough, to fire all those creative people, then it's their own fault. If anything, they should've doubled their sallary instead, to keep them and their "brainpower".
    General ideas are plagiarized every day, and aslong as you don't actually copy them 1:1 there's nothing hindering you from doing it. There's no laws preventing anyone from using general ideas, and that's all the devs of TERA did: they took all the general ideas with them, they had in their heads, without actually stealing something like a HDD or disk with the code stored on it.

    They used the specific code from Lineage 3, bit for bit. Noones memory is that good, which is why they lost. Sorry.

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