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TERA Plagiarized Lineage 3

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  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    Originally posted by Vardahoth

    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    Originally posted by Leucrotta

    Originally posted by Vardahoth


    Second the defendants created the source code themselves.

    Dusnt change the fact that whatever they created/worked on was in order of NCSoft who are the owners of whatever is created during the period of time they were employed by NCSoft.

     

    Also L3 didnt get cancelled but started over from scratch because of this incident.

     

    NCSoft wheter you like them or not had the right to sue them.

     

     

     

    i played ncsoft and mostly they are nice ,they are asian(grinder)so they arent my cup of tea but they are a fair company.

    I had to LOL at this:

    Lineage 2 community uniting together attempting to get rid of cheaters - http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33758



    Statement letter from the community of Lineage 2 - http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33170



    Frustration of NCSoft 0 customer support - http://theangelsbg.16.forumer.com/a/important-l2guru-vs-ncsoftquotbringing-ncsoft-to-the-m_post217.html



    Corruption of NCSoft - http://www.ripoffreport.com/internet/ncsoft/ncsoft-bans-account-claimed-us-5bfe8.htm



    Statement from an NCSoft gm about bots - http://www.ripoffreport.com/software/ncsoft/ncsoft-lineage-ripoff-2-bots-f-9q7ac.htm

     

    bot is very hard to get rid of!check zam.com and all the affiliate that got baught by the bot industry .its big business

    there arent many gold seller but they break all mmo.check  silkroad online and most f2p game

    korea even made it legal to be a gold seller .so where you think zam and all the other countless gold seller will go they ll go to korea.its sad but its the truth.its not more the fault of ncsoft then blizzard .in blizzard it just look better because there is no store

    outside its only an auction house but dont delude your self into thinking there are less bot in wow there are 100 maybe a 1000 more bot in wow then most game.

    ncosoft should just boot the personal store system and just use auction house .there wouldnt be less bot but

    it would look better from the outside.

     

    I've heard this argument before. And yet why is it if I go play ragnarok online or wow I can get a bot banned in an area I want to level in within 24 hours. However ncsoft's aion or lineage 2 they will not only refuse to ban the bots but will ban my account for reporting the bot. Nice try though.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    aion i know how they work tho!i dont know how l2 work since its not my cup of tea!but in aion you report  ignore said gold seller and as soon as ncsoft investigated and the gold seller was a gold seller they ban him,his account etc said player need to buy another copy.when gm ban someone you see it if your around why!you see a big radius blast where the gold seller was before being bown to smitereens.when that happen even your account is blown!

    why do you think now gold seller changed their tactic.game buying adds up very quick so instead they try now to steal info account of a player they even pay the monthly of said player account till they get caught then they steal another account

    (or at least they try to steal info)thats aion .l2 is so old maybe ncsoft didnt sned aion way of doing things

    since aion in english speaking country is managed by arenanet.and those guys do stuf their own way!but your right

    ncsoft could at least copy the bot banning of aion and apply it to all their title.we ll see how futur goes!

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by drbaltazar


    aion i know how they work tho!i dont know how l2 work since its not my cup of tea!but in aion you report  ignore said gold seller and as soon as ncsoft investigated and the gold seller was a gold seller they ban him,his account etc said player need to buy another copy.when gm ban someone you see it if your around why!you see a big radius blast where the gold seller was before being bown to smitereens.when that happen even your account is blown!
    why do you think now gold seller changed their tactic.game buying adds up very quick so instead they try now to steal info account of a player they even pay the monthly of said player account till they get caught then they steal another account
    (or at least they try to steal info)thats aion .l2 is so old maybe ncsoft didnt sned aion way of doing things
    since aion in english speaking country is managed by arenanet.and those guys do stuf their own way!but your right
    ncsoft could at least copy the bot banning of aion and apply it to all their title.we ll see how futur goes!

     

    Well I have a low tolerance for BS. You win this round because my head hurts now. It is useless for me to say anything more. GL with the company (you obviously are working for ncsoft because no customer of ncsoft in their right mind would ever say this) you work for.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,149

    Lol same excuses they must work for them if they defende them my god...

    If it wasn't for ncsoft the coding that is in tera would have never been created and tera if ever created would have been different then what it is now.

    Even if the coders did the coding and ncsoft ordered them to create such things for lineage so it still belongs to them wheter you like them or not.

    Putting those silly link about botting has nothing to do with plagirazation because it could have been the worse company in the world that got plagiarized of a project you can't change the fact that it's illegal to steal codes that has copyright of x company to use it for something without their permission.


  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by bloodaxes


    Lol same excuses they must work for them if they defende them my god...
    If it wasn't for ncsoft the coding that is in tera would have never been created and tera if ever created would have been different then what it is now.
    Even if the coders did the coding and ncsoft ordered them to create such things for lineage so it still belongs to them wheter you like them or not.
    Putting those silly link about botting has nothing to do with plagirazation because it could have been the worse company in the world that got plagiarized of a project you can't change the fact that it's illegal to steal codes that has copyright of x company to use it for something without their permission.

     

    The coding still would have been created, just under a different company. Those silly links just proves that the statement ncsoft is a fair company is complete and utter BS.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    nha i dont work for them but i try to be fair  and balanced  and neutral for gamer and company

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by Vardahoth

    Originally posted by bloodaxes


    Lol same excuses they must work for them if they defende them my god...
    If it wasn't for ncsoft the coding that is in tera would have never been created and tera if ever created would have been different then what it is now.
    Even if the coders did the coding and ncsoft ordered them to create such things for lineage so it still belongs to them wheter you like them or not.
    Putting those silly link about botting has nothing to do with plagirazation because it could have been the worse company in the world that got plagiarized of a project you can't change the fact that it's illegal to steal codes that has copyright of x company to use it for something without their permission.

     

    The coding still would have been created, just under a different company. Those silly links just proves that the statement ncsoft is a fair company is complete and utter BS.

     

    fair was put out of context!when i say fair ! i say fair compared to blue.meaning mcsoft didnt steal or used code copied or stolen from ncsoft .that was my context of fair to begin with .but he took what i said and used it in a completely unrelated topic

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Baggs


     
    Have you seen any footage of Lineage 3?
    There is nothing out there to compare the two games and go like "TERA is an L3 clone, they stole the SDK !"
     
    I watched several TERA videos and i don't see anything screaming out loud "HEY THIS TEXTURE IS STOLEN FROM NCSOFT"
     

     

    The lawsuit isn't about textures or art assets. It's about code, Baggs - something that you cannot see in a video. You can't say that since they look nothing alike they are not using the same code because in that light I present to you, Thief and Lineage 2.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Baggs


     
    Have you seen any footage of Lineage 3?
    There is nothing out there to compare the two games and go like "TERA is an L3 clone, they stole the SDK !"
     
    I watched several TERA videos and i don't see anything screaming out loud "HEY THIS TEXTURE IS STOLEN FROM NCSOFT"
     

     

    The lawsuit isn't about textures or art assets. It's about code, Baggs - something that you cannot see in a video. You can't say that since they look nothing alike they are not using the same code because in that light I present to you, Thief and Lineage 2.

    aonther exemple!crysis and aion!same code but very diff texture !

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog Member Posts: 5,001

    god dam, that is a hella lot of money, looks like tera is going down at this rate :(

    EDIT:ohhhh....$1.7 million bot billion >.> lol...i gess tera can till survive.

    image
    March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon

  • mlauzonmlauzon Member UncommonPosts: 767


    Originally posted by drbaltazar
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Baggs

     
    Have you seen any footage of Lineage 3?
    There is nothing out there to compare the two games and go like "TERA is an L3 clone, they stole the SDK !"
     
    I watched several TERA videos and i don't see anything screaming out loud "HEY THIS TEXTURE IS STOLEN FROM NCSOFT"
     
     
    The lawsuit isn't about textures or art assets. It's about code, Baggs - something that you cannot see in a video. You can't say that since they look nothing alike they are not using the same code because in that light I present to you, Thief and Lineage 2.


    aonther exemple!crysis and aion!same code but very diff texture !

    Not really a good example, because NCSoft licensed CryEngine for AION.

    --
    Michael

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog Member Posts: 5,001
    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Baggs


     
    Have you seen any footage of Lineage 3?
    There is nothing out there to compare the two games and go like "TERA is an L3 clone, they stole the SDK !"
     
    I watched several TERA videos and i don't see anything screaming out loud "HEY THIS TEXTURE IS STOLEN FROM NCSOFT"
     

     

    The lawsuit isn't about textures or art assets. It's about code, Baggs - something that you cannot see in a video. You can't say that since they look nothing alike they are not using the same code because in that light I present to you, Thief and Lineage 2.

    aonther exemple!crysis and aion!same code but very diff texture !

     

    you mean Far Cry....crysis is made with the CryEngine 2 and Aion is made With CryEngine 1..

    Anyway they licensed CryEngine for Aion

    image
    March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog Member Posts: 5,001
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by SgtFrog


    god dam, that is a hella lot of money, looks like tera is going down at this rate :(

     

    Wrong.

     

    They received a fat paycheck a while ago.

    When i say fat, i mean 30 million USD fat.

    So don't worry, 1.7million USD is nothing.

     

     

    (ignore this if you were being sarcastic. My sarcasm-o-meter is broken)



    I edited my post, i read it as $1.7 billion cos of the . at the end.

    image
    March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    ya i made the same mistake they used a calculator an showed 3 number after the . lol

  • shane242shane242 Member UncommonPosts: 95

    yet another game NCSoft fucked up.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Baggs



    This story really opened my eyes, NCsoft's business practices are completely disgusting and immoral.
    As i stated before i won't be supporting them anymore, they simply do not deserve it.

     

    Your posts in this thread have me curious: Is Greece a socialist country?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by SgtFrog

    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by SgtFrog


    god dam, that is a hella lot of money, looks like tera is going down at this rate :(

     

    Wrong.

     

    They received a fat paycheck a while ago.

    When i say fat, i mean 30 million USD fat.

    So don't worry, 1.7million USD is nothing.

     

     

    (ignore this if you were being sarcastic. My sarcasm-o-meter is broken)



    I edited my post, i read it as $1.7 billion cos of the . at the end.

     

    Ya i know i was quoting you when you posted :p

     

    Main point is :

    BHS is doing more than fine, the korean site is being updated daily for all i know and they are preparing for a new beta test soon.

    This story really opened my eyes, NCsoft's business practices are completely disgusting and immoral.

    As i stated before i won't be supporting them anymore, they simply do not deserve it.

    Who knows how many other projects they've stolen in the past?

    Maybe BHS was fucked over by NCsoft with Lineage 2 as well (BHS are the people who made L2) and that's why they acted this way.

     

    We, as observers cannot know.

    Both sides will never speak publicly of this.

     

    On top of that , this whole thing is blown way out of proportion, its not that much of a deal as it sounds really.

    I figured it out by doing a 1-2 h research on it.

     

    Now if people want to keep their eyes shut and minds narrow, ignoring the facts, i couldn't possibly care less.

    I'm only posting on this thread because its fascinating how shameless NCsoft really is.

     

    you got the story backward!ncosoft lay-off employe they felt they didnt need.employe took of with l3 code

    no maore l3 from ncsoft

    ex-employe of ncsoft took away the labor of ncsoft!and were hired right away in BHS .BHS is as guilty has the ncsoft ex-employe

    ! you work for GM building cars does it give you the right to take of with the futur corvette design of 2015 .of caurse not

    thats what their ex-employe did ,no wander ncsoft didnt want them in their team anymore there was probably countless issue with those bad apple while they were in ncsoft office.but we will never know those horror story ncsoft had to endure probably since asian arent the style to go public they settle everything internally .unless you do stupid move like this story is about .

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    so baggs you are telling me that the   

    TERA Plagiarized Lineage 3 is wrong !nice to know korean court is wrong!(they found bhs AND all ex-employe of ncsoft

    guilty)

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by drbaltazar


    so baggs you are telling me that the   
    TERA Plagiarized Lineage 3 is wrong !nice to know korean court is wrong!(they found bhs guilty.)

     

    No.

    I only said i find it ok since NCsoft only went after the money and not the code.

    Don't you find it weird that the verdict mentions nothing about the code? And its only a money fine?

    To me that simply shows that there are other reasons behind this ordeal between the two companies.

     

     

    And to answer one of your earlier posts:

    No.

    BHS members were not fired from NCsoft. I was wrong about that.

    I searched about it and only 1 guy was fired, the lead developer of Lineage 3.

    He was fired by NCsoft with the reason of "bad leadership".

    Surprisingly, right after his team learned about it, all 80 of them resigned.

    They took the code with them. ( the reason is unknown, we will never know why )

    NCsoft shuts down the Lineage 3 project.

    Then the people who left NCsoft founded BlueHole Studios.

    And then began working on TERA.

    TERA is now almost ready and NCsoft decides they want money from their ex-employees.

    Both sides go to court, BHS gets a 1.7 million USD fine, no mention of the infamous "stolen code".

     

     

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Its not a story i made up, its facts posted by credible sources all over the internet, took me a few days to find and read.

    nono your right about the event!its not the first time mcsoft sue that pack tho i think its their tird time sometime its a bunch of ex-employe,other time its others etc.

    and the fact bhs is going in supreme court means ncsoft might show some teeth this time around.remember that back then the money wasnt going in since they were dev aion.now thats finished and money as flowing fluently

    so they will probably ask court to shut down the game tera or tera be asked to pay monthly royalty fee for the code instead to ncosft.plus the fine

    (in my view it will probably be the later)

  • synnsynn Member UncommonPosts: 563

    this case could be interesting. The courts seem to always rule in favor of NCsoft and even increased the fine against 2 of the defendants; Mr. Yo and Mr. Kang. With them trying to take this to supreme court the turn-out could be either a great victory or could be a game-ending defeat. oh well hopefully whatever happens TERA will still be released with little or no setbacks.

     

    ...my personal opinion is that BHS should just pay the fine and move on with it. Yes, I understand they are the ones that made the L3 source code but who paid/funded them while they were working on this?

  • demonic87demonic87 Member UncommonPosts: 438

    Great, another great potential put to scraps out of greed. If NCsoft buys it, its going to turn out like crap. Bluehole listened to the playerbase, and what they wanted, it won't be the same with NCsoft, and its just another potential game, with unique mechanics, destroyed because the other company can't come up with anything innovative to counter it. Im never buying an NCsoft game again.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Baggs



    This story really opened my eyes, NCsoft's business practices are completely disgusting and immoral.
    As i stated before i won't be supporting them anymore, they simply do not deserve it.

     

    Your posts in this thread have me curious: Is Greece a socialist country?

     

     

    No idea.

    I'm not involved with politics.

    What does it have to do with a bad Korean company's business policy anyway?

     

    I'm trying to figure out why you are firm in your belief that NCSoft is wrong for legally pursuing a company that has undeniably (judging by the ruling against BHS) stolen from them. You cite their actions as "disgusting" and "Immoral" but find no fault in the theft as you feel since they wrote the code for NCSoft they should be entitled to keep it.

     

    If it's a matter of lack of familiarity with how the business works, I'd like to give you a very quick overview. When a person or team is hired or contracted to write code for a game, the code and all related tools and assets created during their time of employment/contract usually belongs to the company that hired/contracted them. When you consider the amount of money a company will sink into developing an application or technology, it makes sense they would want to retain ownership of those resources they paid to have created and the resources that were created as a result of the teams access to the company's facilities and staff.

    A hundred million years ago (or the late 90's, I forget) when I worked at MicroStar Research on an investment program called Indigo, one of the papers I was required to sign was a non-compete agreement. That meant that for three years after leaving the company I could not write any software that would compete with any of MicroStar's projects. That's a standard agreement for when you're involved in the design of major or flagship projects if for no other reason than the sheer amount of experience and knowledge the employee gains throughout the development and release of them.

     

    NCSoft is not being unreasonable about this. Had BHS just written their own code for TERA, this would never have happened. Instead they tried to use code that legally was not theirs.

     

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798
    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    Originally posted by Baggs

    Originally posted by drbaltazar


    so baggs you are telling me that the   
    TERA Plagiarized Lineage 3 is wrong !nice to know korean court is wrong!(they found bhs guilty.)

     

    No.

    I only said i find it ok since NCsoft only went after the money and not the code.

    Don't you find it weird that the verdict mentions nothing about the code? And its only a money fine?

    To me that simply shows that there are other reasons behind this ordeal between the two companies.

     

     

    And to answer one of your earlier posts:

    No.

    BHS members were not fired from NCsoft. I was wrong about that.

    I searched about it and only 1 guy was fired, the lead developer of Lineage 3.

    He was fired by NCsoft with the reason of "bad leadership".

    Surprisingly, right after his team learned about it, all 80 of them resigned.

    They took the code with them. ( the reason is unknown, we will never know why )

    NCsoft shuts down the Lineage 3 project.

    Then the people who left NCsoft founded BlueHole Studios.

    And then began working on TERA.

    TERA is now almost ready and NCsoft decides they want money from their ex-employees.

    Both sides go to court, BHS gets a 1.7 million USD fine, no mention of the infamous "stolen code".

     

     

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    Its not a story i made up, its facts posted by credible sources all over the internet, took me a few days to find and read.

    nono your right about the event!its not the first time mcsoft sue that pack tho i think its their tird time sometime its a bunch of ex-employe,other time its others etc.

    and the fact bhs is going in supreme court means ncsoft might show some teeth this time around.remember that back then the money wasnt going in since they were dev aion.now thats finished and money as flowing fluently

    so they will probably ask court to shut down the game tera or tera be asked to pay monthly royalty fee for the code instead to ncosft.plus the fine

    (in my view it will probably be the later)

     

    Aion is not being developed anymore? wtf?

    NCsoft sued these people in the past and still kept them working for the company just to sue them again later?

     

    Lmao you are deluded.

    Have a nice day in your imaginary world.

     

    To the rest of you :

    The highlighted blue text explains everything.

    That's assuming you have a fully functional brain.

    NCSoft didn't suddenly decide they wanted money now that TERA is almost complete.  These lawsuits don't happen, and especially reach conclusion, overnight.  This has been going on for a couple of  years.  it's news now because TERA is almost ready.

    To quote mklinic:

    " take a step back and look a little harder. This is a plagerization case. This case was tried in court and the developers were found guilty in both criminal and civil court. So, regardless of your perception of the issue, legal authorities have made the determination based on more evidence then you and I are seeing. You might not like it if you are a TERA fan, but it does not change the fact that the developers have broken applicable laws and been punished accordingly.

    Now, with that said, the write-up says they are appealing. If they win the appeal, then come back and say "I told you so" to everyone who disagrees with you. Right now though, you are speaking from a very uninformed standpoint regarding copyright and code ownership."

     

    ~Ripper

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by rhinok


    NCSoft didn't suddenly decide they wanted money now that TERA is almost complete.  These lawsuits don't happen, and especially reach conclusion, overnight.  This has been going on for a couple of  years.  it's news now because TERA is almost ready.
    To quote mklinic:
    " take a step back and look a little harder. This is a plagerization case. This case was tried in court and the developers were found guilty in both criminal and civil court. So, regardless of your perception of the issue, legal authorities have made the determination based on more evidence then you and I are seeing. You might not like it if you are a TERA fan, but it does not change the fact that the developers have broken applicable laws and been punished accordingly.
    Now, with that said, the write-up says they are appealing. If they win the appeal, then come back and say "I told you so" to everyone who disagrees with you. Right now though, you are speaking from a very uninformed standpoint regarding copyright and code ownership."

     
    ~Ripper

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • leumasx7leumasx7 Member Posts: 218

    i lol. If bliz was a korean company, and sue'd them for a wow clone, they prob would win. South korea is messed up in the head. Legalizing gold farming/selling companies. And now saying this is a lineage clone. NC-SOFT prob wanted another game in lineage line or they know aion players will go there, or won't play their new mmo they are working on.

    Ok actually read more of it. If the people who left NC-SOFT created the code anyway, i think that should lessen a fee. Yes it was created for NC-SOFT, but they created it? (If this is so). For NC-SOFT just wanting money... Sigh, grievers. Always about the money now days.

     

    I hope TERA can be released, had hopes for it. And also, lineage 3 wouldn't be this good, cuz NC-SOFT is so dull, and they lack missing elements to make it a good game.

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