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I want to ruin your game play. Do you want to ruin my game play?
Ihmotepp
Member Posts: 14,495
How much do you think players would put up with the ability of other players to change the game world?
Let's say, for example, you're level 20. You are using as a base X city. You go to X city to buy new gear, get repairs, craft stuff at the robot factory or blacksmith shop, train, bank, get quests from NPC's, etc.
For your level, or skill level, most of the cool stuff to explore is in Area A. It takes 5 real life minutes to get to area A. you do your quests, hunt mobs, whatever, back to the city now and then for character maintenance and so forth.
To get to Area A, you cross a bridge that is over a large canyon that you can't cross otherwise. To steep, if you go over the edge you die.
You go to the city, log off. Next day, you get some quests, and head off the Area A where you are meeting some guildees to complete quests, grind mobs, or collect resources, whatever.
You find, WTF?!!, the bridge is no longer there. Some other players have destroyed the bridge. You can still get to Area A, but now instead of 5 minutes, it takes 10 minutes, DOUBLE the time.
In this scenario, let's say the game is RvR. So, no one is ganking you as you log on, it's not FFA. You can PvE or craft in peace if you want to.
However, your game play has definitely been changed by other players. Is this ok, or do you feel "griefed", upset, ready to quit because some other players ruined your game play experience?
On the other hand, sometimes the game play change is positive. You go to the blacksmith for repairs, and find a new upgraded blacksmith, and repairs are now half price. Other players are responsible for installing this new blacksmith shop, but you benefit.
Comments
I'm assuming this was the cause of my response post.
In any case, I'll use LOVE as an example:
In LOVE, everyone has the right to alter the settlement they're part of, so long as they have the tools and no one else is working on the same tile at the exact same time. At the beginning of alpha, even though they had to pay to play, it still only took one asshat to grab the Smooth Edit tool and completely fuck the base up by spraying land everywhere all up in the air and whatnot. It was a complete, random mess.
Eskil has since had to put other measures in place to fight griefing, but the surefire way is one you don't find early in a settlement's life and occasionally, there still are griefers.
Point being: If you give people power, they're going to abuse it.
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I see your point, but for playing in a game with such freedom, I'd happily pay tradeoffs like your example....
If a player can break the bridge,im sure other player would be able to build it again. Or maybe i'd do it myself.
I"m not sure how your example relates to my example.
In your example, players have complete freedom. There's no restriction on where you can "spray land everywhere".
Obviously not the intention of the developers, and seems like a poorly implemented feature.
In my example, the bridge exists as an on off state.
You can't build a bridge in front of the blacksmith shop just to fuck up the game.
The game is designed so there are two paths to Area A. One short, by the bridge, and one longer.
Destroying the bridge doesn't destroy the game, it changes it.
Sounds like in your example, the "greifing" destroys the game, not simply changes it.
If you were to use my example instead of yours, would you still consider this "griefing"? Would you think the players that destroyed the bridge are asshats?
Okay, let's use a better example, similar in consequence to the one from LOVE:
Say you're in a guild. Say that the guild members are all based in a specific time zone. Say that your guild just spent a month building themselves a city.
Say that in one night while the guild was asleep, a lone player came and razed and looted the city.
Not very fun is it?
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honestly !this bandit type of gameplay could actually be fun
the fact that you arent in a static world anymore would be fun
lets say x bandit destroyed that bridge,your faction receive a memo say they fot to send a team to go repair the bridge witch take lot of people (math gathering)they go repair it.(this is a server wide event.every faction are aware of this fact
bridge take a week to repair.can we say epic fight try to prevent you from repairing that bridge but since they are on the other side of the of the bridge they also have to build catapult to attack you or whatever ranged weapon they need to build since standard weapon wont reach
men you see your self all week working you can literally your foe on the other side building and your like wtf they ll attack
depending on what strategy both faction use it could be a big bloody fight since the closer you get to opposing side
you got sin poisonning worker(secretly of caurse wouldnt want to start a decalred war (since there are treaty that could means your too death like you have to start from scratch.)then suddenly a x class put some tnt on the bridge destroying
1 day of work from the bridge builder i mean its insane the plot there could be and the gameplay that could be involved
but these idea can only work if the mmo game we know(static)are gone and replaced with these dynamic idea.
You can, but what fun would it be to have such freedom only to find out that the bridge can only be built and destroyed in a predetermined spot? And if that were the shorter way, it most definitely would be considered griefing. Really, what reason do you have to destroy a bridge in the middle of a country that has no quarrel with itself?
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if any player got the power to destroy everything then the game isnt balanced not anybody at anyone time geing grouped or solo should be hable to destroy more then 5% and just because it give thenm the power to sneek in an assasinate the queen
or who ever is important on that week event!
You can, but what fun would it be to have such freedom only to find out that the bridge can only be built and destroyed in a predetermined spot? And if that were the shorter way, it most definitely would be considered griefing. Really, what reason do you have to destroy a bridge in the middle of a country that has no quarrel with itself?
Because the game's economy could very well change from things like these. Say that Area A in this case has some rare resource, if it takes longer to get there, the price will increase. If you were lucky and gathered a whole pile of resources and someone razes the bridge, you can make more money off it.
This is definately something all mmo's should have, the economical changes is a HUGE turn-on for mee
if any player got the power to destroy everything then the game isnt balanced not anybody at anyone time geing grouped or solo should be hable to destroy more then 5% and just because it give thenm the power to sneek in an assasinate the queen
or who ever is important on that week event!
I never said it was a quick process, simply that since he had the power to do what he wanted, he could destroy it. Since all the guild slept at the same time (and I'm assuming also slept for a decent amount of hours), he had the chance to walk in and take his time doing what he wanted with the city.
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the problem isnt that there were bandit !its impossible to not have bandit !the problem is there should be clues to his plan
like yes he should have the power but not in 1 second it should take a week,so that once a player go towards that path
there is a quest line for it that opens up like the sin guild had wisper of someone shady being in the area snooping everywhere he or she doesnt belong
you do the quest line it end up in a nice fight between you and the bandit if you did the quest line
he can only destroy 1 if he wins.since there is rarelly just one bandit it might actually end up in one freaking brawl ,the bandit that win destroy one piece
but if everybody ignored bandits they can destroy everything !fair for everybody and it bring a bit of spice in a very static game!
Having programmed quite some games myself, I can tell you out of personal experience: the more freedom you give a player, the more said player tries to use it to destroy things. Not all people do so, but most.
Allow terraforming for example. I bet with you that after a few minutes, some people would start to dig steep holes into the newbie areas in the hopes of newbies falling into them. Or to dig deep trenches around quest-npcs. Or if you'd allow the free construction of buildings (ie you are allowed to stack boards and walls and stuff on each other any way you want), you can bet that a lot of people will notice, when they login, that they're imprisoned.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
If you give people the ability to destroy a bridge, you should give people the ability to build another one and protect it.
I like when MMOs allow for people to create cities, merchants, have player house.,etc.
I remember Shadowbane (when it was around) allowed for guild cities to be developed by the various guilds within the sandbox. They had the ability to create merchants and over time the merchants would upgrade, allowing for better equipment to be purchased from them. On the server I played on I know someone had made a guild city that was open to everyone but did not allow any fighting within its walls. The Vendors were of the highest qualities and it was always a place that various guilds would shop in, or people would use the city as a safehaven from being pk'd at tmes. Eventually a guild did end up succesfully destroying it, for whatever reason. It was a bit of a shock to travel all the way over to that side of the world only to find smoking ruins.. Yes it did take some of my time to get there only to find my trip was a waste, but oh well. That was the mechanics of the game and I can say that I had been part in destroying other cities within the game myself.
Features like this I think are very nice in games as long as there is some sort of balance in the game. After I quit playing Shadowbane, towards the end I heard that my server got zerged by some players in Korea and they pretty much whiped out any major guild on the server and took control of the whole world map, and eventually just started picking on the smaller guilds making it no fun for anyone on that server. I don't think this would be likely to happen now , but that was definitely an imbalance in the game economy.
I don't think I have ever heard of anyone being able to take out a path to a specific area in a game like a bridge though. I think this could definitely lead into some craziness as people would build or control specific points like this within a game.. Perhaps preventing people from entering that area at all, or perhaps charging them a toll., or perhaps just be an @$$ and constantly destroy that bridge just to make eveyone travel the long way.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
the thing here is this if it take a month to build something it should take a month for bandit to undo it!
its the best solution!
Why not hire AI guards(or bots) to guard the city and protect the assets while the people in your guild are asleep? Simply write a script giving the AI instructions on what to do in order to protect the city.
Timmy
It takes several months, maybe years, to build a building and only seconds for some asshat to blow it up in real life.
Why should games be any different?
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You know, a game like this would actually be very interesting. It would be exciting to see how one's actions can change the game world, especially if they have large consequences, such as forming a rivalry between alliances or an economic recession. It would certainly make gameplay less predictable, because who knows what to expect when you log on.
And think of all the player interactions that would take place. For example, like another poster said, people could be trying to dig holes for newbies to fall into. What if a group of people banded together to protect the newbies, fill the holes back up, and attack the other players who are digging the wholes. And who knows, maybe the newbies might even join in when they get more experienced.
This would be the kind of game world that I would practically die for. I'd be more than willing to pay a fifteen dollar subscription to a game like that.
Main characters:
Jinn Gone Quiet (Guild Wars)
Princess Pudding (Guild Wars)
me cast spell *levitation* and flys to that zone in 1 minutes
Generation P
mm just giving a warning call would be enough
like if you plan to ruin x stuff its part of a quest so as soon as you say yes to that quest opposing faction quest line start also
so if you ain in the quest line you cant destroy !it gives a warning for faction need and server select those that will defend automaticly this means there might be 1 million that were trying to go in to protect but server select only the amount of player
vs the other gang so if they are 100 server will select 100 as a counter-mesure.
It takes several months, maybe years, to build a building and only seconds for some asshat to blow it up in real life.
Why should games be any different?
exactly that because its an mmo!
in wow you have been fighting diff faction for years lol whats a week or a month to destroy something it give fun to the builder
and it give fun to the destroyer
basic rule is anybody at anyone time cannot destroy more then 1 days work .its still fun if its targeted and smart it still can cripple
imagine theres a hole in the wall because of your team that faction will be done repairing it in a day
so yes you cant destroy all but i bet they could include other fun!like any self repecting bandit love to do or pirate for that mather!
I'm specifically asking about the example in the OP. I didnt' say anything about spending months building a city, so I dont' see how that applies.
I am NOT discussing allowing terraforming. I'm discussing allowing players to change the world in very small specific ways, however these changes affect everyone on the server, not just the player making the change.
It's not a "phase", it's a real change in the game world. However, there are limits, you cannot "terraform" or build houses in front of the gates to a city to block it off, or things that break the game play.
I'd rather leave that power to the developers, if you had the ability to change a game world, sure it'd be interesting, but more players would screw it up rather than make it better...
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
one thing is sure,its a great idea to make games more dynamic!unless some know fair dynamic game i never payed attention to?
That IS a possibility. Destroying the bridge would make a levitation potion very valuable, for example.
Building the bridge might have the opposite effect. Who needs expensive levitation potions if you can walk across the bridge?