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Originally posted by ProfRed NICE! I thought... how could a country let someone blatantly steal a games source code and make a new game for profit with it. Maybe NCSoft will buy up Tera and release it... The thieves deserves everything coming to them.
NC and Bluehole will settle this behind closed doors. That's a fact.
Originally posted by drbaltazar i think the OP wrote 1.7 billion us$so yes it is an exemplary fine to scare the billion of other thinking about doing same thing to other big company.wich in my view is a good call from korean law!it shows they truelly care about this since they know korean is only startingto have very good reputation because of its mmo economy,and no country like to be avoided for busyness because of people like the ex-employe of ncosft .true blue might not like korea judgementbut its a freaking huge market korea just cant afford to lose so i think that judgement will stand for the good of the majority.(the rest of the industry)
think you're forgetting about samsung and LG.
^and even bigger then their 'mmo economy' is their entertainment industry.
Some cultures use a dot, some use a comma, not everyone uses the same thing as you do, its a diverse world.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
I already mentioned in previous threads, the three core members of Blue Hole need to pay $500,000 individually to NC. It's old news.
Originally posted by Baggs Originally posted by Bagguns Originally posted by Baggs Originally posted by ProfRed NICE! I thought... how could a country let someone blatantly steal a games source code and make a new game for profit with it. Maybe NCSoft will buy up Tera and release it... The thieves deserves everything coming to them.
Get your facts straight.
Those people who you call thieves were in fact FIRED from NCsoft.
Would you leave the code you put hard work for months if not years behind for someone to exploit and make millions of it?
No you wouldn't.
What i just read is simply outrageous, i will never buy anything published by NCsoft no matter how good it might look or in fact be.
You obviously don't know how the world works. Those guys who got fired from NCsoft were PAID to develop that code, they never owned it therefore they had no right to use it.
You think that it is outrageous for criminals to be punished?
So lets assume you bought me 3 buckets of paint and payed me to paint you a masterpiece.
I finish the job, you don't like it and you fire me.
But hold on, i actually made several paintings with those colors you bought me.
Following your logic everything i made with those colors and money you payed me belongs to you.
Don't think so buddy.
You were displeased with my work and you fired me, so all that actually belongs to me, because its in fact my own intellectual property since i created them.
The real picture im getting from the articles is that someone at NCsoft is trying to take advantage of some people he obviously didnt get along with and fired them, but he hates them so much because they are better than him and now tries to further more destroy their lives.
I just want to point out what your saying is wrong and a horrible example. What you said was that they payed for paint and then you painted a bunch of works and then they would be yours because they only payed you for a masterpiece. But that isnt how it works. What they are doing is buying you paint and paying for you to paint. So no matter how much or how many items you paint as long as they are paying for you to paint they dont belong to you.
i wont support those guys in anyway its like saying its ok to steal when you too lazy to work !and i do hope korean court
give them harsher penalty and not just just give them a slap on the finger.
In actuality, whatever you develop while working for a particular company is the companies property. I know they got axed and their code would've probably gone to waste, but they would've avoided this headache if they had started from scratch. As with all business, you want to one up your competition. NCSoft was probably sitting there going 'Hmm, bluehole studios might have something there better try to do something to hinder them'.
Hence, why they probably pushed for that lawsuit. Anyways, that amount won't affect them as much they currently have plenty of funding. On top of that the sentence is delayed about 1-2 years and by then Tera will be out, and would've already amassed profit. What could fatally affect Tera is if they manage to get a order to shut it down, which would really suck since I was looking forward to the game. Personally, what NCSoft should tried doing first is try to make Bluehole studios a subsidery, but I doubt that would've happened since there was prior bad blood.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"~Lord George Gordon Byron
while its illegal to use source code from a company that is not giving it away for free or if you havent purchesed it...
i'd kind of like to see Tera launch, from what i have seen it looks very good for an asian game (most likely hack/slash grind) THO i dont really support the fact its built on "borrowed" source code, hopefully this whole affair can be quickly delt with and the game can be finished we really do need some new game in the system... im tired of the rehash games... its like the movies... taking the good stuff from the past and remaking it with only a colour upgrade....BORING!!!
while i wont really comment on the whole legal junk going on.. i hope it doesnt effect tera or its company TOO greatly... yes what they did is wrong but at the same time..ncsoft has done the same thing has it not?? i recall a thing a few years back of ncsoft jacking a code from someone and having to retool it to be their own after losing a wack load of cash.
tho the posts in this thread are comparing apples and oranges... the guys while working for Ncsoft created the tera code (they are but 2 of the many coders tho...who most likely still work for ncsoft) they took the code after leaving ncsoft and made tera... by all legal rights the code is still rightfully ncsofts (paid work belongs to the person who paid you for said work) so we are here today... in deep... doodoo... (doesnt matter if the guys are the only 2 working on the code it still belongs to ncsoft, but most likely there was more then 2 people making the code tera uses at ncsoft.. besides UNLESS they can prove they made the code in their spare time at home and have it copy righted to them selves....it belongs to ncsoft, doesnt matter if L3 was canned or not.. all items created for or by ncsoft for L3 are property of Ncsoft. holds for websites, pictures, demos, source code...w/e as long as its related or part of L3 its ncsoft's)
Originally posted by Phry still, as amounts go, it might as well be a billion.... as i dont think they have 1.7 million either, and i can't see them getting a loan
No, it won't. The lawsuit has settled and they will have to pay 1.7 million USD. They surely do have 1.7 million dollars considering how they received 30 million USD from investors last month to help develop the game and release it
For any of you worrying that TERA might not come out there's nothing to worry about. 1.7 million isn't going to sway Bluehole Studio even in the slightest and the development is still going on. There's daily updates posted on the Korean official site and even though the North American site has been quiet for a while you should not forget that a focus group test was held a month ago and yes the game is translated into English already.
Originally posted by Locien Originally posted by Phry still, as amounts go, it might as well be a billion.... as i dont think they have 1.7 million either, and i can't see them getting a loan
I don't think they will only get the money bluehole will probably need to change the coding so that it doesn't copyright ncsoft's coding.
Originally posted by bloodaxes Originally posted by Locien Originally posted by Phry still, as amounts go, it might as well be a billion.... as i dont think they have 1.7 million either, and i can't see them getting a loan
I really have strong doubts about that since the settlement involved compensation of 1.7 million dollars. But we'll just have to see.
I forgot to give my personal stance on it. Even though NCsoft had every legal right to do it I still think it's a dick move to pull off and proves that they find TERA a formidable adversary and want to slow down its progress. Here's the story of the people who developed Lineage 3 for NCsoft. About 3 years agoYong-Hyun Park , who was the chief developer of Lineage 3 got fired for "bad leadership skills", but even though his leadership skills were so "bad" about 90 other employees of NCsoft resigned and joined him when he started Bluehole Studio which is developing TERA now. In any sane person's mind they would just be doing the fair thing to continue working on what they had worked on so far. However like I said, legally it doesn't work like that but it's still unfair.
Well would you take into court these people that are going to try making a game from your stolen coding when they can barely afford it? It wouldn't be worth it but tera seems to going to be good so taking them to court will be worth it and that will pay them a lesson to not plagiarize next time.
I'm looking forward to tera but I also understand ncsoft.
If ncsoft will ever start doing again lineage 3 they have to change the coding because of bluehole since they stole it to create a game they shouldn't have made with this copywrited code. Now is it ok for blue hole to plagirize the coding and go with so low of fine? for me a big no.
But who knows, the final judgement hasn't been said and only time will tell what will really happen between the 2.
Originally posted by Baggs
Baggs... Seriously... Just stop. You are so far in the weeds, and so incredibly wrong in so many ways, I'm actually embarrassed for you.It's not about individual people's "logic". Your "opinion" of the matter means nothing in the context of how the real world works.As has been said, those developers were *paid employees of NCSoft*. What they did - every line of code, anything they produced - was property of NCSoft. This is not a new concept, at all. In any company you work for where you're dealing with new technologies, or any kind of new product, there's something called "trade secrets", which are owned and protected by the companies.These are professional companies who invest millions of dollars into R&D for new technology. We're not talking a few hundred, or even thousands of dollars here.But by all means... Go ahead and let people work for you, invest millions into some new technology... have people you are paying to develop that tech *for you* walk out, take the tech with them and then apply it to another game... Let's see how "understanding" you are about it.Now, none of us here know all the real details of the situation - only what's been released. However, seeing as how BlueHole lost and are being fined... I'd say it's safe to say that what they did was not "fine and dandy".
In a sense... I'm kinda relieved to read that article. Why? Because the story that people from NCSoft stole code from L3 and went off to make a new MMO came out a *long* time ago. I've been wondering all this time "And NCSoft just let them walk away? No... something's not right there". So... this at least satisfies the skepticism I had of that story.As much as I want to play TERA... If BlueHole is truly guilty of all that's been leveled against them, then they got what's coming to them.
Originally posted by Baggs Thinking about it a bit more, we can't really know if the developers did it on purpose.Something along the lines of : "They fired us, lets make TERA an awesome game and they'll go after us in the end, buy our game and publish it" Oh and to the guy trying to tell me that i would use the masterpiece for something else or whatever.There is no footage of L3, not even artwork.Again, NCsoft is into this for the money. Nothing else. Do you really think that if TERA was shit they would give a fuck?Come on its not quantum physics.
You're right, it's not quantum physics, Baggs. So why don't you seem to get it?
They worked for NCSoft. They were producing proprietary code for NCSoft (look up proprietary). They took said proprietary code - owned by NCSoft - for which they were paid to create. They used it in a competing product. NCSoft sued them and made a strong case. BlueHole lost and is now paying the penalties. End of story.
lol !lets say the investor invested 500 million in blue.you do know that money is invested there so blue make awsome game.
not to steal code from different company to release new game,and certainly not to go to court against ncsoft .
the way it stand right now either way ncsoft wins.if blue end up winning in court the lose the investor if they lose in court they lose the investor and the the code they stole plus some money
either way only one company look good in this deal its ncsoft .and no investor want to be branded as a crook
i bet those investor didnt know about blue being sued because some in there had stolen stuff from ncosft.
if they had known they probably wouldnt have invested there since there are countless other mmo maker with better reputation
and very good game.
The fact is that NCSoft canceled the development of L3 when their staff took off and a lot of code was stolen.
It's no conisidence that Blue Hole Studios manages to make a massive game like they have in less than 2 years of development (I've kept a close eye on TERA, and over half the leading staff came from the L3 team.
About the 500M US$ fine... That was the cost for the time and development (plus 2 years interest) that NCSoft already has put in L3 development: http://lineage3.wordpress.com/ <--- see the Arpil 30, 2007 entry
Baggs, take my (and several others') word for it: stop right there.
NC Soft sucks. No one cares what they think. I'm not really looking forward to anything they release. Bluehole is just making better use of the source. And who gives a piss? It's just bits and pieces of code. The fact is that NC fears Tera's development and release. Every one of their games don't last very long. And you can argue GW but that game sucks as well in my opinion. If NC wants to be a bunch of losers, then Bluehole will just have to delay and change the source to make them happy. And take that $1,000,000.00 or whatever and see how they can make it better than NC's "stolen" code. I was looking forward to it this year around the fall/winter and have even upgraded my PC for this game and of course a couple others. #[email protected] NC!! You bastards made me waste $50 on Aion. I hope you all die!!! Peace.
Getting too old for this $&17!
So because you don't like ncsoft's games no one does riight..
And as far as we know the final sentence hasn't been published yet no one knows what is the whole punishment bluehole will get for their plagiarization and don't spout out fanboy because someone doesn't agree with you it could have been cryptic that got stolen those codes I would have agreed with them on sueuing those that stole.
Originally posted by bloodaxes So because you don't like ncsoft's games no one does riight..And as far as we know the final sentence hasn't been published yet no one knows what is the whole punishment bluehole will get for their plagiarization and don't spout out fanboy because someone doesn't agree with you it could have been cryptic that got stolen those codes I would have agreed with them on sueuing those that stole.
To each their own. I simply stated my opinion. And that's all it is. My opinion. My point? I've been watching TERA and I don't want any hindrances with the game's release. I think for those of us who have been patiently waiting, it is very much a downer to have ANY sign of the games release/development being canceled. I understand the whole stolen source thing. And yeah it was wrong. And it's like I said earlier. Bluehole should just make suitable changes for NC and continue development. All I know is that I better see something by the holidays. Or I'm going to storm into NC and cut off their little Korean pi pi's.
I'm also looking forward to Tera but some people (Baggs) can't understand why breaking the law is bad lol
I once stole an empty Slurpee cup from 7-11. EXTREEEEEEEEEEME!!!!!!
its not about being a fan of one side or the other ,its about the fact ncoft was doing l3 and doing fine and they had to stop doing l3 because employe ran away with the code of l3 .how much it costed ncsoft you think.i bet a lot and it still cost since they would probably be released by now if exemploe hadnt took l3 code because they didnt like being fired .
Originally posted by drbaltazar its not about being a fan of one side or the other ,its about the fact ncoft was doing l3 and doing fine and they had to stop doing l3 because employe ran away with the code of l3 .how much it costed ncsoft you think.i bet a lot and it still cost since they would probably be released by now if exemploe hadnt took l3 code because they didnt like being fired .
Even though I am waiting on Tera I do hate that this whole thing happened. I could be playing Lineage 3 right now for sure and thats what I am really waiting for.