If you are a new player, you probably will not get a great experience flying solo. This game truly shines when you join a good corporation that is willing to socialize, train and support you. It is MMO after all. Just make sure you join a corporation that has similar goals to yours. You can find almost any type of corporation even as a relatively new character.
Yeah I've always said newbies die solo in EVE. Call me a coward but I don't pvp alone. Cause everytime I see a red- even if they appear to be 'alone' there always seem to be backup just a few jumps away.
I know that's how we've ganked reds all the time. WE send in bait to get them to engage and tuirn on their aggression timers.
If you are a new player, you probably will not get a great experience flying solo. This game truly shines when you join a good corporation that is willing to socialize, train and support you. It is MMO after all. Just make sure you join a corporation that has similar goals to yours. You can find almost any type of corporation even as a relatively new character.
Yeah I've always said newbies die solo in EVE. Call me a coward but I don't pvp alone. Cause everytime I see a red- even if they appear to be 'alone' there always seem to be backup just a few jumps away.
I know that's how we've ganked reds all the time. WE send in bait to get them to engage and tuirn on their aggression timers.
standard tactics really, have a tanked out drake/hurricane supposedly ratting in a system, and wait for someone to attack it, the rest of the fleet is in a safe spot just off the gate in the next system just waiting for someone to aggress. its probably an overused tactic, but, Eve is a game thats not about soloing, of course, the really interesting bit is when 2 bait ships meet
How does that change the fact that you, as an individual, can never hope to contribute as much to your corporation as an older player? You can. Infact contribution to corp is entirely unrelated to SPs. For example my corp has a recruitmentofficer who ist still so wet behind his ears im not sure he can fly T2 frigs/cruisers. But he is good with people, so he recruits. He contributes alot more to the corp than many highskill players who simply piggyback around on corpops. Another corp had a guy in a T1 frig leading roaming gangs, of hacs and CS, he couldnt fly them but he was willing to step up and lead gangs, which many many players are uncomfortable with regardless of SPs.A new player who wishes to become competitive in EVE by focusing all his skillpoints into one specific path will absolutely be forced into a niche role, unable to adapt to various situations (I am sure your corporation would sometimes prefer you to fly a battleship rather than an interceptor, for example). You mean just like someone with only one toon or one highend equipment set in a game like wow is limited to a niche role? Lets face it, if you want to do it all it takes time, otherwise the devs of a subscription based game dont care about revenue, which would be odd. You will also never be able to fully experience all aspects of the game wrong, you will be able to experience everything a 100mil SP player experiences, in the same time it took him, unless of course you train differently specialized characters on multiple accounts at the same time, which I believe is a perversion of the intended experience (one character, one reputation). I agree, only use a alt for noncombat related things, cause thats less important to me and i didnt want to have all eggs in one basket(a high SP player can have pvp combat skills and trading skills at the same time, but he cant be in 0.0 and trade in empire at the same time)If one is willing to put in actual play time (as in time spent actively playing, not being subscribed and training while on vacation) and effort, one should be able to excel in all areas of the game, and yes, catch up to those who have been training afk for years. That is already possible, there are ways to circumvent the SP "barrier" in large parts for many activities. For example you can use a pirate faction BS like the nightmare in place of a marauder, train T3 in place of covertops/CS/Hac/BS skills, use faction launchers and mods instead of T2 and pretty much do the same as a older player with many millions more SPs. But that needs a ISK advantage, which you would have if you spent way more time ingame than him. The best frigate for example right now is considered the dramiel, which is a T1 faction design you can fly in literally a few days of training.
I'll leave the skill training discussion to the other thread and address the OP regarding making the player experience more friendly to new players.
While CCP has done great strides, one weakness I feel that remains is that all the tutorials end up leaving the player frequently thinking that EVE is all about mission running, mining, or ratting and many of them spend their entire trial doing nothing but these activities. (which most would agree are not the high points of EVE life).
This is especially frustrating for the PVP oriented player who joins up hoping to see some competitive PVP that they can be part of.
Sure, there's red vs blue, and faction wars, but those are rather esoteric concepts to new players and most do not take advantage of them.
There's also joining up with a good corp, but that too is a hit or miss proposition and many players have quit EVE after many months thinking that all EVE corps just suck and they don't see the appeal.
I'm not sure what the solution is, one would be some sort of starting system limited only to new characters who could take the frigates they earn during the tutorial and battle it out in this zone with no loss of skill points, and all ships are almost instantly replaced at no cost.
No veterans could take better equipped ships in there (rthough they could roll alts and play by the same rules as others) and I'd amke sure you couldn't form fleets, better to let it be every man for themselves.
Of course, as soon as the new player emerges into the rest of the universe, they are bound by the same rules as the rest, just let them go back in to the tutorial area for a period of time and keep trying out the combat because that's where I think the real draw of EVE is, but many people are afraid to risk lost time (or wait for skill trains) to get to it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
as a 1 year old toon, who started this game with 3 friends from swg, and now can fly all the races battleships (amarr is my specialty), formed a corporation, started an alliance, conquered wormholes and now live in null sec as guests of a great bunch of guys in the south....
yeah i would like to tell those who cannot catch up you are wrong.
Can you please tell me how long it takes to max ALL possible skills that are related to flying a frigate (gunnery, electronics, engineering, spaceship command, etc). I am sure it is far longer than a month, and it is almost certain that someone who has been playing for several years will have all of these skills at 5. This is assuming, of course, that someone wants to fly frigates for the rest of their EVE career. Ships that will actually make you competitive in pvp take over a year to train to their full potential. So how exactly do you catch up to a veteran?
" Bingo " You do not catch up. Unless they stop training skills which is most unlikely. Eve survives on Prey ie: New Player. read my main responce
CCP knows they will lose new players and sooner or later will have to address the High Section Gate Ganking that is on going. The long time players know what im saying. please do enlighten us [im betting you got your cheap hauler ship ganked while transporting all your stuff - something only a newb or lazy player does].
" Rover Class"
Yea have fun with that tired old fantasy of yours Elsabolts.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Originally posted by Kyleran While CCP has done great strides, one weakness I feel that remains is that all the tutorials end up leaving the player frequently thinking that EVE is all about mission running, mining, or ratting and many of them spend their entire trial doing nothing but these activities. (which most would agree are not the high points of EVE life). This is especially frustrating for the PVP oriented player who joins up hoping to see some competitive PVP that they can be part of. Sure, there's red vs blue, and faction wars, but those are rather esoteric concepts to new players and most do not take advantage of them. There's also joining up with a good corp, but that too is a hit or miss proposition and many players have quit EVE after many months thinking that all EVE corps just suck and they don't see the appeal. I'm not sure what the solution is, one would be some sort of starting system limited only to new characters who could take the frigates they earn during the tutorial and battle it out in this zone with no loss of skill points, and all ships are almost instantly replaced at no cost.
Prettttyyyy sure I saw an interview with one of the CCP developers and he mentioned that they want to revamp the tutorial. I personally LOVE the concept of EvE and have tried MANY times to get into the game (usually via trial offers) but I could never get used to the idea of losing a ship. I would consider myself a flexible MMO player and I have tried many different games but I could never get...comfortable with losing a ship in EvE. I personally think the tutorial should have you run a mission where you are ganked by several NPCs. You lose the ship, are forced to wake up in the station and learn a very valuable lesson. An NPC could say something along the lines of, "It's a good thing you purchased that other frigate and saved a clone before running this last mission. The universe is a dangerous place and it's best to have insurance policies. Get used to it!"
The problem is the tutorial now instructs you on the basic mechanics of the game, tell you that you can purchase multiple ships, insure them and a clone and that's about it. You never lose a ship, you are never forced to use those broad concepts the tutorial teaches you so when you get ganked for the first time you take it a little personal and may just give up. People can tell you all day long that it will happen, it's only a matter of time but the simple fact is until you actually EXPERIENCE it, it's just a foreign concept. People can tell you what love and heartbreak feel like but until you actually experience them, they are just untested concepts.
Im pretty sure new players get killed in the tutorial now. Or that is the change they have on the books that you mentioned.. have only done the tutorial once or twice.. two different ones actually.. since they continually change it to lessen the bump from tutorial to the real game.
Losing a ship is pretty harsh compared to other games and it really hurts the first time it happens.. especially if you havent saved up to buy a new one of equal strength.. So its a good thing people get to try it in the tutorial.
Lets not get confused here. There is the tutorial, which purpose it is to teach you the basics, like locking, moving around, turning on modules and that kind of stuff. Then there are the career agents, for example combat, advanced combat, exploration, industry and that kind of stuff that teach you specifics and provide you with skills and stuff.
MM pretty sure the devs have stated they want to put a character death into the tutorials, which, imo, is no bad thing, the earlier people get used to clonedeath the less risk averse they should be. Clones are still cheap at that stage of development.
MM pretty sure the devs have stated they want to put a character death into the tutorials, which, imo, is no bad thing, the earlier people get used to clonedeath the less risk averse they should be. Clones are still cheap at that stage of development.
Clones are free until you have more than 900,000 SP to protect.
And yes, a mandatory death was proposed for the tutorials, I think just after the part where they take you through insuring your ship, updating your clone, etc. I think it's an excellent idea to include a "Kobayashi Maru" scenario in the tutorial. One of the things that's different about EVE is that it's possible to lose. Most games dont offer that as a real possibility, and it seems to come as a great shock to many players.
So many games these days are removing even the concept of consequences from their games these days, which also removes the immersion and a lot of the gratification for succeeding.
there is no character death in tutorial. "Advanced Combat" has two missions where your ship destruction is part of objective. in both missions free ship is provided on acceptance.
Is it just me who thinks that EVE actually is newb friendly? Im still in my free month and thats the impression the game gave me. EVE does a awesome job of introducing a new player. At least it did for me.
And its not like some games out there that tell you you can play in a certain way to advance your character and then at max level say sorry, you have to raid or no shinies.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Is it just me who thinks that EVE actually is newb friendly? Im still in my free month and thats the impression the game gave me. EVE does a awesome job of introducing a new player. At least it did for me. And its not like some games out there that tell you you can play in a certain way to advance your character and then at max level say sorry, you have to raid or no shinies.
EvE is reasonably newb-friendly for the right value of newb.
The kind of newb that does all the tutorials, accepts the premise of the game, thinks about what he's doing and can follow advice even when it's not what he is hoping to hear will do outrageously well in EVE.
The kind of newb - and we see plenty of them complaining on the forums - who expects to 'win' without any real effort, to never face any setbacks, ignores advice and expects the game to change to suit them find EVE a shockingly hostile place.
From my experience (one month old) there's not very much difficulty in learning basic fundamentals but there's a lot of them so you keep learning. I still havnet decided what I want to do. I'm mining, i'm killing pirates and salvaging, i think i want to craft...there's a ton of stuff to do. my small concern is that the core of the game is pvp and so far the only pvp i've done involved my escape pod. But I'm sure I'll get there too eventually.
I'm having a lot of fun without PVPing atm so when I start to pvp I imagine it'll be a blast. from personal experience though, when you get startedyou probably should play something else too in parallel. begining was slow paced but now with more possibilities it's a lot better.
p.s. I shot at a wreck and CONCORD blew me up. It was a blue wreck. Why did they...do that? It was a pirate wreck.
You may only shoot wrecks that you kill, not anyone elses.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I recently started a new toon and aside from skipping the basic flight tutorial, I did all that the starter agent asked, and the same with the agent he put me in touch with. I found it to be a lot more user friendly than it was a few years back when i first played.
By the time I'd done two 10 part missions that guide you through various aspects of the game, I'd received 4 new ships, one million ISK and close on twenty skill books, not to mention the other rewards.
It is a greatly improved 'New user experience' from what I can see
I agree with this. The only reason I know I will never subcribe to EVE again is its skill system. I don't care if I can be just as good as the veterans in one specialized role (even that takes at least 6 months to achieve), I know that my character as a whole will always be underdeveloped, less versatile and therefore more dependant on others to succeed.
I think that is a pretty inaccurate assessment. Whereas overall I can see where you are coming from, as there is no end-game and level cap like many MMORPGs, over time you will still be able to do what other players can do. The main difference I see is that older players have had time to specialise in certain aspects of the game, and are now able to train more diverse skills, not directly related to their main focus.
If for example you wish to have a well rounded pvp character, then the skills you train are going to be based on your own personal goal. If you start going off training Mass production to lvl 5 before you have reached your target then that is gong to impact on what you set out to do. If you stay focused, you are fine. There are only a finite set of skills that will benefit your pvp character, and they are the same skills that others will have trained to level 5 too. So, you can 'catch up'.
I'd rather excercise some self discipline than have strict class boundaries.
Comments
Yeah I've always said newbies die solo in EVE. Call me a coward but I don't pvp alone. Cause everytime I see a red- even if they appear to be 'alone' there always seem to be backup just a few jumps away.
I know that's how we've ganked reds all the time. WE send in bait to get them to engage and tuirn on their aggression timers.
Yeah I've always said newbies die solo in EVE. Call me a coward but I don't pvp alone. Cause everytime I see a red- even if they appear to be 'alone' there always seem to be backup just a few jumps away.
I know that's how we've ganked reds all the time. WE send in bait to get them to engage and tuirn on their aggression timers.
standard tactics really, have a tanked out drake/hurricane supposedly ratting in a system, and wait for someone to attack it, the rest of the fleet is in a safe spot just off the gate in the next system just waiting for someone to aggress. its probably an overused tactic, but, Eve is a game thats not about soloing, of course, the really interesting bit is when 2 bait ships meet
I'll leave the skill training discussion to the other thread and address the OP regarding making the player experience more friendly to new players.
While CCP has done great strides, one weakness I feel that remains is that all the tutorials end up leaving the player frequently thinking that EVE is all about mission running, mining, or ratting and many of them spend their entire trial doing nothing but these activities. (which most would agree are not the high points of EVE life).
This is especially frustrating for the PVP oriented player who joins up hoping to see some competitive PVP that they can be part of.
Sure, there's red vs blue, and faction wars, but those are rather esoteric concepts to new players and most do not take advantage of them.
There's also joining up with a good corp, but that too is a hit or miss proposition and many players have quit EVE after many months thinking that all EVE corps just suck and they don't see the appeal.
I'm not sure what the solution is, one would be some sort of starting system limited only to new characters who could take the frigates they earn during the tutorial and battle it out in this zone with no loss of skill points, and all ships are almost instantly replaced at no cost.
No veterans could take better equipped ships in there (rthough they could roll alts and play by the same rules as others) and I'd amke sure you couldn't form fleets, better to let it be every man for themselves.
Of course, as soon as the new player emerges into the rest of the universe, they are bound by the same rules as the rest, just let them go back in to the tutorial area for a period of time and keep trying out the combat because that's where I think the real draw of EVE is, but many people are afraid to risk lost time (or wait for skill trains) to get to it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At the end of the day, CCP can't find friends for new players... that's up to them. At some point the hand holding has to stop.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
as a 1 year old toon, who started this game with 3 friends from swg, and now can fly all the races battleships (amarr is my specialty), formed a corporation, started an alliance, conquered wormholes and now live in null sec as guests of a great bunch of guys in the south....
yeah i would like to tell those who cannot catch up you are wrong.
" Bingo " You do not catch up. Unless they stop training skills which is most unlikely. Eve survives on Prey ie: New Player. read my main responce
CCP knows they will lose new players and sooner or later will have to address the High Section Gate Ganking that is on going. The long time players know what im saying. please do enlighten us [im betting you got your cheap hauler ship ganked while transporting all your stuff - something only a newb or lazy player does].
" Rover Class"
Yea have fun with that tired old fantasy of yours Elsabolts.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Prettttyyyy sure I saw an interview with one of the CCP developers and he mentioned that they want to revamp the tutorial. I personally LOVE the concept of EvE and have tried MANY times to get into the game (usually via trial offers) but I could never get used to the idea of losing a ship. I would consider myself a flexible MMO player and I have tried many different games but I could never get...comfortable with losing a ship in EvE. I personally think the tutorial should have you run a mission where you are ganked by several NPCs. You lose the ship, are forced to wake up in the station and learn a very valuable lesson. An NPC could say something along the lines of, "It's a good thing you purchased that other frigate and saved a clone before running this last mission. The universe is a dangerous place and it's best to have insurance policies. Get used to it!"
The problem is the tutorial now instructs you on the basic mechanics of the game, tell you that you can purchase multiple ships, insure them and a clone and that's about it. You never lose a ship, you are never forced to use those broad concepts the tutorial teaches you so when you get ganked for the first time you take it a little personal and may just give up. People can tell you all day long that it will happen, it's only a matter of time but the simple fact is until you actually EXPERIENCE it, it's just a foreign concept. People can tell you what love and heartbreak feel like but until you actually experience them, they are just untested concepts.
Im pretty sure new players get killed in the tutorial now. Or that is the change they have on the books that you mentioned.. have only done the tutorial once or twice.. two different ones actually.. since they continually change it to lessen the bump from tutorial to the real game.
Losing a ship is pretty harsh compared to other games and it really hurts the first time it happens.. especially if you havent saved up to buy a new one of equal strength.. So its a good thing people get to try it in the tutorial.
Lets not get confused here. There is the tutorial, which purpose it is to teach you the basics, like locking, moving around, turning on modules and that kind of stuff. Then there are the career agents, for example combat, advanced combat, exploration, industry and that kind of stuff that teach you specifics and provide you with skills and stuff.
MM pretty sure the devs have stated they want to put a character death into the tutorials, which, imo, is no bad thing, the earlier people get used to clonedeath the less risk averse they should be. Clones are still cheap at that stage of development.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
Clones are free until you have more than 900,000 SP to protect.
And yes, a mandatory death was proposed for the tutorials, I think just after the part where they take you through insuring your ship, updating your clone, etc. I think it's an excellent idea to include a "Kobayashi Maru" scenario in the tutorial. One of the things that's different about EVE is that it's possible to lose. Most games dont offer that as a real possibility, and it seems to come as a great shock to many players.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
So many games these days are removing even the concept of consequences from their games these days, which also removes the immersion and a lot of the gratification for succeeding.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
there is no character death in tutorial. "Advanced Combat" has two missions where your ship destruction is part of objective. in both missions free ship is provided on acceptance.
Is it just me who thinks that EVE actually is newb friendly? Im still in my free month and thats the impression the game gave me. EVE does a awesome job of introducing a new player. At least it did for me.
And its not like some games out there that tell you you can play in a certain way to advance your character and then at max level say sorry, you have to raid or no shinies.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
EvE is reasonably newb-friendly for the right value of newb.
The kind of newb that does all the tutorials, accepts the premise of the game, thinks about what he's doing and can follow advice even when it's not what he is hoping to hear will do outrageously well in EVE.
The kind of newb - and we see plenty of them complaining on the forums - who expects to 'win' without any real effort, to never face any setbacks, ignores advice and expects the game to change to suit them find EVE a shockingly hostile place.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
You may only shoot wrecks that you kill, not anyone elses.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I recently started a new toon and aside from skipping the basic flight tutorial, I did all that the starter agent asked, and the same with the agent he put me in touch with. I found it to be a lot more user friendly than it was a few years back when i first played.
By the time I'd done two 10 part missions that guide you through various aspects of the game, I'd received 4 new ships, one million ISK and close on twenty skill books, not to mention the other rewards.
It is a greatly improved 'New user experience' from what I can see
Common sense is not a Sixth sense
I think that is a pretty inaccurate assessment. Whereas overall I can see where you are coming from, as there is no end-game and level cap like many MMORPGs, over time you will still be able to do what other players can do. The main difference I see is that older players have had time to specialise in certain aspects of the game, and are now able to train more diverse skills, not directly related to their main focus.
If for example you wish to have a well rounded pvp character, then the skills you train are going to be based on your own personal goal. If you start going off training Mass production to lvl 5 before you have reached your target then that is gong to impact on what you set out to do. If you stay focused, you are fine. There are only a finite set of skills that will benefit your pvp character, and they are the same skills that others will have trained to level 5 too. So, you can 'catch up'.
I'd rather excercise some self discipline than have strict class boundaries.
Common sense is not a Sixth sense
it has always been the same join a faction !this game is NOT solo friendly!since its a real massive mulitplayer online game
its no biggy lol.unless you wanted to solo a game online?!@$#%^&;$&*nha you didnt want that !