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I wish this game was just a tad more newbfriendly
Oblivi0n
Member Posts: 58
I'm not trying to come in and ruin what some people love. Only wondering if there was a better way to get new players situated into the game.
The design of this game is pure excellence, the ships look great, and the pvp looks fun. But I never got that far. I spent a lot of time mining rocks and traveling from gate to gate. The PvE is somewhat disappointing. I don't want a spoonfed game at all, I enjoy the openended play. It's just quite a complex game and I had trouble situating myself in it.
The skill system looks cool, if you were one of the first players to start playing, as for everyone else you're always going to be riding coattails. I wish maybe they could implement a system where skills could be "earned" in-game rather than qued. And I'm not talking about destroying the current system, only giving players a chance to work at gaining some extra points. This of course would apply to both veterans and newbs. The skill system was the first thing to turn me off to this game.
Anyways, Eve Players make the best movies around, I love watching them on YouTube, I was always inspired to play, but couldn't get very far before turning it off.
Looked like a solid game though.
Comments
As far as "catching up" goes, read the thread on the front page of this forum with the title "you can never catch up". It will correct your misconception.
As far as "new player friendly" goes.... well it is, for specific values of new player.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I agree with this. The only reason I know I will never subcribe to EVE again is its skill system. I don't care if I can be just as good as the veterans in one specialized role (even that takes at least 6 months to achieve), I know that my character as a whole will always be underdeveloped, less versatile and therefore more dependant on others to succeed.
Well in truth, the skill system actually makes things stay very even in many ways. For instance; I can't go past level 5 on Gallente frigates, so there's no way you can't catch up with me, If you were to get frigates level 5 as a new player and I had frigates level 5 and we were to fight, there's still a very good chance that you might win even if you are a new player. The only thing you lack in eve is the dos and don'ts, the "I've done this before so I know what to do" knowledge. Its doesn't really matter how many SPs I have, all that matters is the amount of time I've spent playing the game learning the tactics and the ins and outs of how to fit a ship.
In order to enjoy eve you have to have a personal goal in the game and those are hard to come by, maybe when the next expansion is about to be released you could set one of its features as something you want to take part in. It will definitely help because what most new eve players lack is direction.
This is not a game.
1 week to be good at flying frigates.. 1month to be good at every thing else that could be useful in flying them... don't get it twisted.
And no matter what.... you will always be dependant on others to succeed, Eve is NOT a solo game.....unless you have an alt and even then that's not solo.
This is not a game.
I say again
MAGA
Can you please tell me how long it takes to max ALL possible skills that are related to flying a frigate (gunnery, electronics, engineering, spaceship command, etc). I am sure it is far longer than a month, and it is almost certain that someone who has been playing for several years will have all of these skills at 5. This is assuming, of course, that someone wants to fly frigates for the rest of their EVE career. Ships that will actually make you competitive in pvp take over a year to train to their full potential. So how exactly do you catch up to a veteran?
well i dont know; I got the game when it hit the shelves and there was no skillque or tutral. everything had to be learned on fourms/chat/sites. I remember setting my alarm clock for the wee hours to start new skills and falling asleep at the key board mining with others for hours. I will never forget making my first MOA boat and the feeling of accomplishment...until i lost it hehe. I feel that those dudes/dudetts that have been in game for years should not have to feel angered by new players easy ranking. Of course that only counts if you earned your time and did not buy an account with years on it.
What is there to catch-up on? PvP? Not really, I remember a group early in the game history of new players clan called "killer clowns" that terroized zones with player numbers in smaller ships. That is what makes Eve...Eve. Evolve with the game, become one with the system and you too will have players hanging on your coat-tail someday.
" Bingo " You do not catch up. Unless they stop training skills which is most unlikely. Eve survives on Prey ie: New Player.
CCP knows they will lose new players and sooner or later will have to address the High Section Gate Ganking that is on going. The long time players know what im saying.
" Rover Class"
MAGA
To fly a T2 Frigate (Assault Ship) with T2 modules and (almost maxed out skills in either missile or guns) will take you about 4 months and about 40 million ISK.
Courtesy of Eve Mon.
My gaming blog
My 3 year old char would need an additional 3 months to fly a hawk perfectly, too.
So yeah..
In what MMO's are you NOT dependent upon others to succeed (disregarding the abortion that is STO)? Solo'd all of WoW did you? Raided that Dragon all by yourself in DAoC? Killing Krayts and Rancors all by your lonesome in SWG (preNGE)? I'd like to see the screen of that.
I view it that EVE allows you to be LESS dependent upon other players, since you can train for whatever you want. Will it take time for you to be good at it all? Yes. But correct me if I'm wrong, you can only hold 2 professions (at a time) out of all available in WoW, so you will always be dependent upon someone else to make up for what you can't accomplish on your own.
As to your second post about training time for effectiveness, I call major BS.
A shuttle is competitive at PvP. Why? For intelligence, scouting, transporting of small capacitiy high value goods through semi hostile territory, and a variety of other reasons. Just because the shiny that you saw and wanted may take that long, don't judge all ships to be the same.
I assume by full potential you mean trained all relative skills to lvl 5, which most vets will tell you is next to pointless. What's an extra 5% damage when you are formed up in a 25 man fleet? Ooooo, and extra 4% capicitor recharge rate for a fight that might last a few minutes at most, one way or the other.
Being effective and full potential are two very different things, and only one really matters in the world that is EVE.
In what MMO's are you NOT dependent upon others to succeed (disregarding the abortion that is STO)? Solo'd all of WoW did you? Raided that Dragon all by yourself in DAoC? Killing Krayts and Rancors all by your lonesome in SWG (preNGE)? I'd like to see the screen of that.
I view it that EVE allows you to be LESS dependent upon other players, since you can train for whatever you want. Will it take time for you to be good at it all? Yes. But correct me if I'm wrong, you can only hold 2 professions (at a time) out of all available in WoW, so you will always be dependent upon someone else to make up for what you can't accomplish on your own.
As to your second post about training time for effectiveness, I call major BS.
A shuttle is competitive at PvP. Why? For intelligence, scouting, transporting of small capacitiy high value goods through semi hostile territory, and a variety of other reasons. Just because the shiny that you saw and wanted may take that long, don't judge all ships to be the same.
I assume by full potential you mean trained all relative skills to lvl 5, which most vets will tell you is next to pointless. What's an extra 5% damage when you are formed up in a 25 man fleet? Ooooo, and extra 4% capicitor recharge rate for a fight that might last a few minutes at most, one way or the other.
Being effective and full potential are two very different things, and only one really matters in the world that is EVE.
WHOOOA
I wasn't thinking about it being maxed out but yeah.. 4 months
This is not a game.
I'm not sure if this is a good "whoa" or a bad "whoa" but I get the sudden mental image of Neo in the first Matrix movie, transposed with Bill and Ted.
Even if you had every single skill to level 5, you would still be dependent on others to succeed at the same level as a 6 month old character in a good corp.
Get out of the idea that you have to be "the best" or "max level" to be of any worth. That concept is an abomination that may hold true for that Other Game™, but has no relation to EVE.
By the time I was 6 months in to the game I had created a PvP corp (despite the fact that I was and still am pretty bad at PvP) and led it into 0.0.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Attitude and experience can be much more use than the difference between level 4 and level 5 skills in eve.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
If you are a new player, you probably will not get a great experience flying solo. This game truly shines when you join a good corporation that is willing to socialize, train and support you. It is MMO after all. Just make sure you join a corporation that has similar goals to yours. You can find almost any type of corporation even as a relatively new character.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
When I first played Eve a few years ago, some people complained that the tutorial was too long. It was close to an hour IIRC. I felt that the tutorial was too short. Three hours would be about right for that game.
Be honest you can have 60+million SP and still never have great exxperiences flying solo because you keep getting ganged up on by all those damn new guys...
Be honest you can have 60+million SP and still never have great exxperiences flying solo because you keep getting ganged up on by all those damn new guys...
LOL!!!!!!
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
That's a very strange mentality to take into a game that thrives on cooperation between people.
Even if you have 500 million skillpoints and are in a completely officer fitted marauder - If 3 6-month players come along in their t1 cruisers, you're toast.
You are always dependant on others to succeed. No one can conquer entire regions of 0.0 on his own. No one can build a titan on his own, and so on.
You may be able to do some things solo, but you can do those things just fine whether you've been playing for 6 months or 6 years. A properly fitted raven is more than enough to do level 4 missions in and you need even less in terms of character stats to maintain a POS somewhere in low sec.
This game is built on groups - They come first, solo is an afterthought that only very few people enjoy in this game. If you don't like being dependant on others to 'succeed', then this is not the game for you, simple as that. Even the vets are dependant on others, no one is expected to make it on their own in anything.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
How does that change the fact that you, as an individual, can never hope to contribute as much to your corporation as an older player? A new player who wishes to become competitive in EVE by focusing all his skillpoints into one specific path will absolutely be forced into a niche role, unable to adapt to various situations (I am sure your corporation would sometimes prefer you to fly a battleship rather than an interceptor, for example).
You will also never be able to fully experience all aspects of the game, unless of course you train differently specialized characters on multiple accounts at the same time, which I believe is a perversion of the intended experience (one character, one reputation). If one is willing to put in actual play time (as in time spent actively playing, not being subscribed and training while on vacation) and effort, one should be able to excel in all areas of the game, and yes, catch up to those who have been training afk for years.
Obviously you are not getting the intention of the game, and most likely never will.
New players can contribute just as well as older players to corporations.
For example, say you join a mining corp as a new player. Yes, the vets are all in specialized mining ships pulling in tons of ore at a time, but someone still needs to be the person to haul the ore back to the station for storage, which is where new players come in (while they are at the same time training to be just as effective at mining as the vets).
Same for a PvP corp. True, the vets may be in tricked out battleships, but all their skills and modules mean NOTHING if the target can escape before they get a lock on them, which is where new players come in with a tackling frigate (while they are training for a tricked out battleship at the same time).
As for being able to experience all aspects of the game, you can. Many people do balance their security ratings with the various empires in order to have access to all available content. However, making choices SHOULD have consequences, which is one of the things I love about EVE.
Since the majority of the content is player based in 0.0, security status means almost nothing to them. Would you have your enemies allow you into their space so you can experience their content fully? Well, you will, by getting blown back to your clone in the station.
If you are talking about experiencing the different aspects of the game through skill use (industry vs. PvP vs. whatever), then you can, you just won't be *the* best at everything.
If a new player could max out all the skills in the game in a few months such as WoW, everyone would be flying Titans and would have no need to even interact with anyone else, which is the opposite of what a MMO is for.
Remember, it's Massive Multiplayer. If you want to be the best at everything and feel that the world hinges on you, play a single player game.
After reading that news feature on Justin Webb's friend who was new to MMOs in general, it's quite apparent that no matter how well thought out the tutorials are; nobody is gonna read them. I just came back to EVE and hit up it's entire litany of tutorials from using probes to hacking things, and it even gives you the modules needed to do so in some cases. It works fine, and it's '"newbs" who just refuse to use them and go about on their own.
The only way to fix that is electric choke-chains, or a catholic school teacher with the yardstick cocked and ready.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I'm no fan of time based training and early on I experienced a similar frustration
But I studied the skill system and planned out my character anyway. I quickly realized the devs setup EVE so that you can get into a role really quick. Sure, my character can fly an interceptor. But you can two in bout what- 2 weeks? And guess what! An interceptor is expensive little 20mil+ tier 2 frigate that like instapops if you mess up. Only reason I trained for the damned lil things cause initially I thought they could be fully insured. LOL, boy was I so wrong!
So guess what I found myself flying more? Cruisers. Fun little ships like Thorax and Vexors. Newbies can fly those too
My character can also fly a covert ops ship. Newbies cant fly those out of the box. But guess what? I fly Vigils more. Sure, no cloak. But you don't need'em. Just toss on some nanos and you'll escape a gate camp fast.
And if you get popped (hard for me to imgaine cause i never lost one)- you only lose a small tad. Hell i can make Vigils from rat junk loot. Fleets of them if I wish.
A lot of older characters are cheap like me and will hop into a tier 1 ship in a heartbeat. Newbies can fly those same ships I love to fly.
And yeah, other times I get into my Battleships and Tier 2 HACs but rest assure I'm in my cheap Tier 1 stuff wayyyyyy more. I only pull out the big guns when asked. Which is rare cause i dont have ISK to blow (ok yeah my Alliance will pay for my loss on fleet ops anyway but you get what I'm saying I hope)
So yeah you forget one BIG LESSON. Only fly what you can afford to LOSE. I cant afford to lose a damn thing so I'm flying noob sticks just like you son and I do pretty well. Knowledge of the game is key. OVerheating yer stuff, hitting that MWD, etc. All this contributes to getting nice KMs
EVERYONE is viable in EVE. Sure, maybe that L5 Indy hauler (or Indy carrier) can carry more ores then a L1 Indy hauler but guess what on mining ops my Corp was still happy to see my lil L3 Industrial. Just took me more trips and more effort but I still was a big help.
Newbies can pretty much do everything I do really. You can get intel (vigil), tackle (vigil / the other minmatar frig too), DPS (thorax / vexor + drones), longe range DPS (t1 battleship using tier 1 guns), and haul (indy). Hell you can even explore as well using tier 1 exploration frigs.
edit- oh crap I wrote a long book. I don't expect capricots or whatever to read this but maybe this'll help out some newbie