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General: Webb: Freebird!

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  • Justarius1Justarius1 Member Posts: 381
    Originally posted by WW4BW


    Almost forgot to mention my approval of any system that allows for players to freely express themselves, that allows the player to add content to the game that they themselves invented and created. Like a piece of music or guild crest.
    Written chat is a good start, but its often dificult convey sarcasm for instance.. often the recipient would think you were applauding his skill when in fact you were scolding him.. Guess thats why people are often so damn obscene in their critique.. they want to make damn sure you understand that they arent pleased with you.
    I often use....... elipses... or so Im told they are called, when chatting in games..
    I have been told it makes it look like I think the other person is an idiot.........
    But in fact I was trying to convey a pause in my..... train of thought and.... by that extention in my.... well.... my speach.
    I can see why people would think I thought they were stupid, when my answer to a question would be something like this:
    "You need to go to talk to your trainer....."
    But I was infact making those elipses to express that I wasnt done talking and that more detailed info was coming and I just needed a long time to check my facts and type it accurately.
    ".... he is in the capital by the blacksmith and say: "Send me on my epic" and you also need to have done "prequest 1"  and "prequest 2". Let me know if I you need any more help.
     

     

    Wouldn't another answer be to brush up on your linguistic and interpersonal skills?  It's sad how few 20somethings can write a letter these days with proper spelling and punctuation; despite spell checkers, free K-12 education in the US, etc.

    Honestly if people in my social circles were constantly misunderstanding me I'd take a long, hard look at my own communication style and then change it as needed.  Shrug.

    I use text messaging all the damn time myself but I have to say it's killed the communicative ability of an entire generation... ;)  If you can't get across sarcasm in text, you're not trying hard enough.  Try adding (that was sarcasm) in parenthesis after your paragraph.  

    :D

    image

  • yureinekoyureineko Member Posts: 39

    given Blizzard’s recent propensity to trample all over their own IP (pop-culture-based dancing, motorcycles, helicopters, etc.)

     

     

    There were helicopters in Warcraft 2, I'm just saying.

    I don't even believe in Jeebus.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Justarius1

    Originally posted by erictlewis


    Yes you can turn off player music,  they you would also need to turn off combat sounds as well.
    The reason why is mini's do music sounds durring combat.  So you get the drums you get drum sounds, lute you get kind of lute sounds, theoboy sounds like a bass guitair, then were back to the bagpipes.  You just cant put your mini on ingnore in a group.
    its a silly system,  they want to do something good let us bring in mp3's into the game. 

     Ugh, you have to turn off combat sounds to turn off the music?

     

    No, player music, game music and combat sounds are all separate sliders.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Member UncommonPosts: 3,022
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Justarius1

    Originally posted by erictlewis


    Yes you can turn off player music,  they you would also need to turn off combat sounds as well.
    The reason why is mini's do music sounds durring combat.  So you get the drums you get drum sounds, lute you get kind of lute sounds, theoboy sounds like a bass guitair, then were back to the bagpipes.  You just cant put your mini on ingnore in a group.
    its a silly system,  they want to do something good let us bring in mp3's into the game. 

     Ugh, you have to turn off combat sounds to turn off the music?

     

    No, player music, game music and combat sounds are all separate sliders.



     

    While that is true, the musical instrument that the mini has makes sounds durring comat.  In order to turn those combat sounds off you have to slide your combat slider down.  Say you get a mini with bagpipes you get bagpipe sounds the entire fight.  So you either turn of the combat sounds to deal with the instruiment th mini has or not   the music system has its on slider.    I do have that turned way down. 

  • GameFeroGameFero Member Posts: 6
    Bah silly editor! I don't need my own text in this box!



    I'm not sure what's worse, when an published authour doesn't research or when the commentors don't research before posting.



    The system is likely to stem from what is called MML (Music Markup Language). Other games also provide this. Such a game (which is also free to play) is Mabinogi (which another poster has stated).



    A link to a YouTube video of such a rendition is www.youtube.com/watch perhaps not the best video there but what ya going to do?

    Originally posted by Justarius1

    Originally posted by WW4BW

    I often use....... elipses... or so Im told they are called, when chatting in games..



    "You need to go to talk to your trainer....."
    But I was infact making those elipses to express that I wasnt done talking and that more detailed info was coming and I just needed a long time to check my facts and type it accurately.
    ".... he is in the capital by the blacksmith and say: "Send me on my epic" and you also need to have done "prequest 1"  and "prequest 2". Let me know if I you need any more help. 

     

    Wouldn't another answer be to brush up on your linguistic and interpersonal skills?  It's sad how few 20somethings can write a letter these days with proper spelling and punctuation; despite spell checkers, free K-12 education in the US, etc.

    Honestly if people in my social circles were constantly misunderstanding me I'd take a long, hard look at my own communication style and then change it as needed.  Shrug.

    I use text messaging all the damn time myself but I have to say it's killed the communicative ability of an entire generation... ;)  If you can't get across sarcasm in text, you're not trying hard enough.  Try adding (that was sarcasm) in parenthesis after your paragraph.  

    :D

    There's no sense in going over the "Dumb idea, can't mute it" agro, so lets get to something a little different.

    Another comment in which was largely unresearched has been made by Justarius, claiming that twenty somethings can't write a letter in this era and use proper spelling and punctuation. Last time I went to school (and I'm twenty something) 20 is a number represented in figure format while twenty is how it should (in most situations other than the exceptions) be represented in most situations; this is because the '20' figures disrupts the reading flow.

    The problem however is that first and foremost the above poster is not twenty something, he is thrity something. So you are both in the same age bracket of ten years.

    Instead of laying down insults as you have Justarius, why not try to educate? Thou a public comment section isn't the best way to do so. Lets try these examples of the 'American English' correct way of using the famous eclipse. And on stating "American English" lets also state that WW4BW is Dutch.

    "The most common and formal use of eclipses is to indicate an omission [typically in a quite]."

    Example: "Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens: “I cannot help it ... I love her against reason.”

    Another use for eclipses are in the following:

    • A falter in dialog
    • Passage of time
    • An unfinished list
    • The speaker has trailed off
    • The speaker has left something unsaid

    These are all grammatically correct uses for the infamous eclipse. However, what our member Justarius is trying to say, is that if you over use them, it becomes annyoing.

    The use of the example question and answer above seems like a good way to reply and grammically correct.

    You don't want to come of as being a noob-hater so you start to reply and indicate you haven't finished "...", and you don't want to take to long in replying to the new player as time is going to go by and the person who asked the question will have likely gone off saying "^@#! you too". For not replying in a timely manner.

    One thing to note however is that an eclipse is only three dots "..." that is to say that where you have two or more than three, it is incorrect. If it's two its likely to be a typing mistake while when its more than three is likely to be an indication of how long the speaker was thinking!

    WW4BW, if someone has a problem, just think of them as an uptight older person who has nothing better to do than bash you over the head with an eclipse or two... but maybe I'm missing something. Food for thought maybe...

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Justarius1

    Originally posted by erictlewis


    Yes you can turn off player music,  they you would also need to turn off combat sounds as well.
    The reason why is mini's do music sounds durring combat.  So you get the drums you get drum sounds, lute you get kind of lute sounds, theoboy sounds like a bass guitair, then were back to the bagpipes.  You just cant put your mini on ingnore in a group.
    its a silly system,  they want to do something good let us bring in mp3's into the game. 

     Ugh, you have to turn off combat sounds to turn off the music?

     No, player music, game music and combat sounds are all separate sliders.

    While that is true, the musical instrument that the mini has makes sounds durring comat.  In order to turn those combat sounds off you have to slide your combat slider down.  Say you get a mini with bagpipes you get bagpipe sounds the entire fight.  So you either turn of the combat sounds to deal with the instruiment th mini has or not   the music system has its on slider.    I do have that turned way down. 

    In that context the bagpipe sounds are the same as any other combat sound and has nothing to do with hearing player music. I personally wish there was a separate slider for the all the screaming the chars do during combat.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,823

    Just another great idea that no one else has picked up. What he calls metagame is part of RP tools to my mind and they have been in decline for ten years, doubt they will see a come back.

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345

     Yeah the music system is great. And listening to it while smoking some serious pipe-weed in Bree is something other games lack. Pipe-weed and music ftw!

  • FrobnerFrobner Member Posts: 649

    Im sorry but I find it unbelivable to hear ppl talking about how good the music system in LOTRO is.  Who cares ?   Im not starting a MMO to play some music.   And LOTRO is crap in so many OTHER features that I can't even think of installing it again - ever.  Moral system, bad animations, very limtited mod and poor custimation setup.  - Just to name few.

    As for other games have not picked up on this music system.  Probably because they consider other things more important.  And I agree with them 100%.  WOW doesn't have player housing - does not have guild ranking function (yet).  There are alot of things that WOW could do better before adding a crap music system. 

    I still consider Turbine to have failed miserably to bring LOTR to life.  The main reason is probably BECAUSE of systems like the music system that is a extra featrue - and it seems to have gotten more attention from the devs than the more important features that seriously need some extra work to become abit intresting.

  • dadowndadown Member UncommonPosts: 210

    I thought it was a very interesting innovation. I had some fun with it, but of course, those with no musical ability are annoying to be around. It would have been interesting if playing certain notes had some use in some quests, but as a novelty item, it gets old after a while. Its probably not copied because for the effect required to implement it well, there is limited benefit.

  • rolandhadleyrolandhadley Member Posts: 22

    Great article and great innovation. Like others have said, this is one of the few things that would have me be interested in this game. I hope others pick this up. I'm always puzzled when people don't want social features in a social game. I mean, if you don't want to be bothered by other people you can play Dragon Age.

  • ElirionElirion Member Posts: 160

    I love the music system in LoTRO.  I enjoy hearing people standing around playing instruments.  It makes the towns more interesting and alive.  LoTRO is the only game i've played where people sometimes sit around in a tavern, talk, play music, and smoke pipes for fun.  

     

    Seems like a lot of people that are complaining about player music that really have no idea what they are talking about.  The music doesn't carry very far.  It won't even carry from one side of a normal in-game tavern to the other.  If it's bothering you, which I find hard to believe but whatever, then walk a few steps away and it's gone.  If you don't want to be social in a social game, ie mmo, then go play the many single player games that are available.  This isn't MW2, Gears of War, or Oblivian.  If you get that annoyed so easily by other people then MMOs may not be the games for you.

  • seelxseelx Member UncommonPosts: 6

    I thought it was a great idea.  Some people are very talented.

    I'm not so talented, so I just download music I found interesting.  I used to enjoy standing at the horse stalls and playing "Horse with No Name"

  • UnSubUnSub Member Posts: 252

    A player-created music system is a nice idea, but it is hardly essential to any MMO being released. What proportion of the LOTRO base actually use the system?

    Also, it's interesting to see that most players' expression of themselves as individuals via music appears to be doing cover versions of existing songs. ;-) (Person who said they did original songs is excepted!)

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258

    Well IMO love hearing people playing original songs, but covering a song that doesn't fit the lore is pretty much gay.  Now I know there really isn't any way to keep that from happening but its nice to get away from real life. I just wish everyone was on the same page, while i think its cool if someone can play freebird in LOTRO but I don't give a shit really. I can just play it on my own if I really wanted to hear it with my guitar that I own.  

     

    People need to really get into the RP part of MMORPG's thats why I think I get so bored with mmorpg's so quick there is hardly any RP anymore.

  • happyfartshappyfarts Member UncommonPosts: 94

     Even I am very surprised no other MMOs took up LoTRO's music system.

    I found it to be a very innovative and social feature that opened up room for player creativity

    The biggest problem in MMOs is that despite being a place for like-minded players to meet up, there is little to no social functionalities implemented in them.

    The two most common ways to interact with other players in MMOs is to either whack things together, or to whack each other! In that respect, MMO's music system is a refreshing change

    I can only hope that other MMOs take example from them

  • happyfartshappyfarts Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Originally posted by cukimunga


    Well IMO love hearing people playing original songs, but covering a song that doesn't fit the lore is pretty much gay.  Now I know there really isn't any way to keep that from happening but its nice to get away from real life. I just wish everyone was on the same page, while i think its cool if someone can play freebird in LOTRO but I don't give a shit really. I can just play it on my own if I really wanted to hear it with my guitar that I own.  
     
    People need to really get into the RP part of MMORPG's thats why I think I get so bored with mmorpg's so quick there is hardly any RP anymore.

     

    RP ... haven't seen any of that in ages. I have yet to see an MMO that openly supports it

  • ZilverrugZilverrug Member Posts: 132


    Originally posted by happyfarts 
    RP ... haven't seen any of that in ages. I have yet to see an MMO that openly supports it

    Well, some game features (especially /me or /emote) don't make much sense if they weren't put in there for RP reasons.

    But for RP: the situation on LOtRO's European Laurelin isn't bad at all.

  • seelxseelx Member UncommonPosts: 6
    Originally posted by UnSub


    ..., it's interesting to see that most players' expression of themselves as individuals via music appears to be doing cover versions of existing songs. ...



     

    And on social network sites, people identify themselves by listing the music they like, the books they read, the movies they watch.  Showing interest in certain songs is an expression of your tastes as an individual.  One doesn't have to create the music to enjoy it and share with their friends.  I give extra credit to those talented enough to create new music.

    For that matter when people flame about games they like or dis-like, are they expressing themselves?  Identifying with and playing this game over that, seems to me to be as expressive as sharing songs created by others.  Extra credit to those out there designing new and innovative games.

  • I agree that Lotro has a good music system (so does Mabinogi). Sadly, they tend to be used by folks that want to get noticed so without any musical talent at all they just copy, paste and play making the 'talented' those that have copy and pasted the most. This turns a mmo with it's own unique feel into a pop music fest that too, at least me, seems totally out of place for the setting.

    It's just another sad fact of why mmo's are mostly clones and played by mostly lonely players just looking for positive feedback from others.

    So what good is a good music system if it's implemented simply to pad the bottom line? They could of added it without the ability to plagarize the work of the real talented music folks (not me btw..I am mostly tone deaf) and turn the music into original works either in content or the ability to actually 'play' music with some skill. It's just another example of what's wrong with mmo's in general.

    So I agree it's a good system for a mmo but I can see why more mmo's don't do it.

  • sbowlingsbowling Member Posts: 37

    This annoying music system had me ready to quit LOTRO after 30 minutes of playing. Of course, the dull quests and boring.... everything else of the game got me to quit within a few days anyway. LOTRO is a bad game and the music system is quite possibly the worst idea ever to enter an MMO. The only thing that would make this not kill a game quickly is to have a large mute button that pops up whenever anyone around you starts to make noise in this "music system" that will permanently turn off the sound of all these instruments. Have you ever been in an area where 5 or more paople are all making noise on these things at once? The horror.....

  • RyzesRyzes Member UncommonPosts: 4
    Great article and it's great to see the OP picked one unique aspect of a game and wrote about it.
    I usually run around in LotRO but when I hear a nice song, it makes me stop and clap. It's so refreshing when I'm in Bree and I see people dancing and playing songs.
    I went to an in-game concert and it was so much fun.

    If the music annoys you, just step away a few feet and you can barely hear it. The closer you get, the louder. Not annoying at all.
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