I am a person that enjoys alts. Not a ton, but 2-3 characters per game. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. On the same token, I don't think there's anything wrong if you don't like alts.
Obviously, I won't fit into your guild. I'm ok with that. Just like you wouldn't want to be in mine. I generally like more social type guilds that help each other level and have fun. I don't know how that equals a "failed" guild. I'm still trying to figure out how a guild "fails". Is there a test?
Anyway, to the point. I'll play my way in my guild. You play your way in yours. and lets both be happy that we are supporting each others favorite game.
Yes, what we really need in a game we buy, then pay a monthly fee, is more limitations. first they limit the amount of options we have in creating our character then they limit the amount of options we have in developing our character, then they limit the options we have in exploring the world making htem more and more like singleplayer tunnels, more than livng brathing worlds... then limit the options we have on impact in the world, no housebuilding no politics no galaxy trade pretty much nothing but level, then raid... Now,,,, you think that the best way to continue the evolution of MMOS... limit the characters we want to play and force us to only play one.
I REALLY can not see what exactly it is we are paying for anymore... Now the costumers themselves are tapping into the same mindset that we should pay for less? Pathetic...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
Okay, now that I have your attention, I was thinking over my past experiences and I find that one things is constant: If a new guild has most of its members constantly rerolling alternate characters, that guild fails. This could be a cause or only a coorelation. Whether it's the cause or not is not the point of the post. I'd like to discuss your thoughts on alternate characters and the number of characters per account. To begin with, I'd like every game to have a test server like SWG has and DAoC had. Meaning, a place where you can roll characters and test them out, along with game mechanics and changes coming down the pipe-line. This would serve as a good place for people to test as many characters out as they want, before clogging the main servers up. Next, I'd like every game in the future to only offer 1 character per account at the start. This requires people to stick to one character, and allows for people to become known by their character. Anyone who's played SWG knows what I'm talking about. The test server solves the problem of people being indecisive on which character they want to play. You should be able to create a lot of characters on the test server, so you can compare and contrast them. But on the live servers, you can only have 1 per account. This also has the added benefit that guild leaders and members can be more confident that those in their guild are their main characters and will be active. I'm not sure about you all, but I grow tired of those afflicted with altitis, because they fall behind the main group in the guild, and then sometimes expect the main group to go back and help them. I get my fun from playing with a group of others in the game. So I'm motivated to keep leveling and playing, so that I can keep up with my online friends. However, I'm never in a rush, and I think the game is about the journey, not the destination, so don't derail the thread for that. Lastly, I think that in order to unlock more character slots, you should be required to level a character to max level. So if you want your second character slot, you need to get your first character to max level. If you want your 3rd character slot, you need to level up your second character to max level, and so on. This'll help people stay committed to their characters, and help stop people from jumping around from one character to the next, never getting far on any of them, and then quitting out of boredom. Before the accusations and immaturity starts, I'd like to say that I suffer from altitis as well, and have learned that if I'm ever going to enjoy the game and get to max level, I need to stick to one character, and ignore "the grass is greener" syndrome. So those of you with altitis, I feel your pain. All I can say is that I'd love to play with you all, not just in the 1-20 range, but the entire game. That's why I think this is necessary. Otherwise, you all will reach level 20, and reroll to something else and I'll never see you all again. That, or I'll have to keep an Excel page open with a list of your characters, so I know who is who in the guild. That's just annoying. I'd rather get to know the people playing along side of me, and it's hard when I can never group with you, because you keep rerolling or bouncing between characters.
It sounds like you and the OP are talking about a multiclass system akin to Dream Of Mirror Online (herein DOMO). Instead of limiting an account to one toon, you are limited to two. Your toon starts off as a level 1 Commoner, and after a half an hour of gameplay (actually reading the backstory of each of the four races) you are around level 7 or 8. Now, the game opens up at level 10. When you get to level 10, you are able to go for your first "job", and there are twelve, yes, TWELVE, job classes, including Commoner. After you've qualified for that job, say Wizard, you don't have to do qualify again. You can switch effortlessly from one job to another. It works even in guilds when you want to group with lower level players. So you could potentially be any combination of those twelve jobs (Hunter [Archer]/Warrior [Blademaster], Thief/Doctor [Cleric],etc.)
What I don't agree with is the idea of unlocking more character slots. How would that improve the community? It would only inhibit those that want to explore the world from a different race's point of view. If I had to play through an entire MMO to the end-game as, say, an elf noble, just to unlock the ability to make another character I would be beyond frustrated since I just spent 1000+ hours grinding/questing just to get to the point where I could make another. The whole point of alts in my opinion is to allow players the opportunity to experience the game from another race/classes point of view
(lol and yes, this is my first post ever. Seemed like a good enough reason to stop lurking)
For me having Alts is a good thing, I'm still a Fan of Sandbox MMO's first and foremost. There aren't many, and though I'm sure some of you will laugh I'm still an active subscriber to Ultima Online and have been for the most part since 1999 for this reason. The problem with Alts is lazy players and lazy developers. Let me explain both of these.
Lazy Players. They want instant gratification straight out of the box, the ability for a character to acquire every single non "Class" skill kills a character. It's taking the Role Play out of MMORPG's, it's turned games into a Trig equation. "If I assign {x} amount of my XP to AA's and divide that by between {y} abilities get {z} piece of armor I'll be awesome!", it's a game it's intended to be entertaining not a test of higher mathmatics. Like I said I'm still a Ultima Online Player, my favorite alt became more or less my main, I spend most of my time playing in a PvP zone with a character with 0 offense, the character is built on stealth and ability to disengage from combat situations. The Character is a Thief, I sneak up on players and hopefully find something on them worth stealing, 99% of the time there's nothing but the entertainment value makes up for it even if I spend months getting nothing out of it.
Players look for over simplification these days which is part of the instant Gratification, WoW, EQ, WAR, etc. all fall victim to this they are all cookie cutter with variances in Graphics, Races, and minor sub systems and controls. Once you max out a toon or get bored with the daily grind your only option is an Alt. Sandbox you don't have this issue generally, you decide you don't want to be a Warrior type anymore fine, become a mage and give up your warrior abilities, it's that simple. Level based Games will always fall behind on depth, complexity, and real honest to truth game play innovation because once you roll a toon your locked into that skill set, this makes Alts very necessary to provide replay, or continual play value and for a player to explore all facets of the game. Sandbox it allows for players to actually become citizens in a Virtual world, where your character can actually evolve over time not just "Ding LvL Up!". All because Players are too lazy and too easily placated with mediocre. Sure WoW has 10+ million subs guess what there's only 10 races and 10 classes. With that many player toons quickly become nothing short of cookie cutter copies of each other, destroying any chance except for the lucky few to really carve out a virtual persona that actually influences the server you play on.
On to Lazy Developers, Sony, Blizzard, Mythic, nDoors, NCSoft, BioWare, they are all guilty. Sure I'll be the first to admit that a great deal of talent goes into the concept, design and initial coding for any game or expansion. But far too often once a MMO is out the gate it hits Cruise Control between expansion development periods. Outside of Global Events that can be patched in, and silly Quests what really innovative happens between Expansions? Bug fixes, yea they are important but unless your team is really understaffed they aren't really doing much for player experience on a wide scale most of the time. You want to know where the best work for a post launch MMO happens? Usually in the Emulation Communities that try to secretly build up around them. Why? Because the people doing it because they want too, and aren't bound by deadlines, side tracked by reviews and meetings, and aren't bound by the scriptures and guide lines that corporations place on their development teams that hamper the creative process. What you get is a bunch of cookie cutter MMO's Find me a major innovation from EQ to WoW that doesn't involve Graphics? Seriously find me anything in WoW that really changes how you play the game that EQ didn't have? Voice Chat doesn't count since no form of VoIP was mainstream till 1999 when SIP and IP-PBX hit the scene. Names and animations FX, are simply graphical differences and are only really skin deep. Really when your playing the same game over and over you need to find an outlet to explore the possibilities and if the developers don't readily provide it then you need Alt Characters in these cookie cutter games to provide variance from the routine yourself.
Once again let me refer to Ultima, they have an entire program made up of players that do nothing but design and run events for players, why? So the Developers can do their jobs and really work on developing things. Atlantica Online another MMO I play does more to keep players active and interested than 90% of the MMO's out there. Sure it's a Grind game, but no where do I see the GM Staff dueling players as regular events, Daily PvP Tournaments, Weekly Cross Server PvP Tournaments, Events every 1-2 weeks, and all this from a F2P game that gets consistent updates in not only game content, but graphical changes, control feature improvement, but most of all new ways to encourage Player to Player interaction beyond "Raids". Ultima Online in it's prime strongly encouraged Player to Player interaction, but has had to slowly adapt to market trends to survive making it a shadow of what it once was, even though it's got more depth than half the currently produced MMORPG's combined.
So you want to know why Alts are important, because if you don't have them what are you going to do when the Glam and Glitter wears off and you realize you've been playing a cookie cutter clone of the game you probably quit, after you strip away all the Eye Candy.
Many people such as my wife enjoy leveling. It is not their primary goal to have a "main" that is advanced to max level with the best gear, but to have fun advancing their characters. My wife, I doubt, would play a game that would limit or eliminate her ability to make alts. If you don't want your guild to fail due to people spreading their focus across multiple characters, find like-minded people to be in a guild with. I'm a person who focuses on one character. Most of the time if I roll an alt it's for extra storage space or to play when things are dead and there's nothing for my main to do. But the point I'm trying to make here is that you have to find like-minded people to play with. It's the same for the inverse in that it would make a casual player unhappy to be in a hard-core progressive raiding guild.
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
I don't recall saying you wouldn't be able to roll alts. I was only saying if you eliminate the need to roll alts, the problem will be solved, without taking away anything. Most people don't reroll simply because they want to try playing another race, but they want to try out another class as well. Make it able to be every class on one character, and you won't be forced to reroll every time you want to play a new class.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
It sounds like you and the OP are talking about a multiclass system akin to Dream Of Mirror Online (herein DOMO). Instead of limiting an account to one toon, you are limited to two. Your toon starts off as a level 1 Commoner, and after a half an hour of gameplay (actually reading the backstory of each of the four races) you are around level 7 or 8. Now, the game opens up at level 10. When you get to level 10, you are able to go for your first "job", and there are twelve, yes, TWELVE, job classes, including Commoner. After you've qualified for that job, say Wizard, you don't have to do qualify again. You can switch effortlessly from one job to another. It works even in guilds when you want to group with lower level players. So you could potentially be any combination of those twelve jobs (Hunter [Archer]/Warrior [Blademaster], Thief/Doctor [Cleric],etc.) What I don't agree with is the idea of unlocking more character slots. How would that improve the community? It would only inhibit those that want to explore the world from a different race's point of view. If I had to play through an entire MMO to the end-game as, say, an elf noble, just to unlock the ability to make another character I would be beyond frustrated since I just spent 1000+ hours grinding/questing just to get to the point where I could make another. The whole point of alts in my opinion is to allow players the opportunity to experience the game from another race/classes point of view (lol and yes, this is my first post ever. Seemed like a good enough reason to stop lurking)
I wasn't talking about a multi-class system, but that's one way to do things. There are multiple ways to do what I said, so it's really a matter of choice. What I propose should help the community grow stronger, as I've explained in previous posts. Most people who are altoholics do not really contribute to the community; they basically only play for themselves. That's fine, but those people can't expect me to think of their needs in my ideas, when my idealism is centered on making a community stronger.
As for unlocking more character slots, I felt this was a good idea, because it forced people to stick with one character until completion, while also allowing for people to explore the world through another characters eyes. If playing the game until completion with one character is so boring, then perhaps MMO gaming isn't for that person or perhaps the game in particular isn't for that person. However, the idea was only meant to foster discussion. Feel free to suggest alternatives.
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
I don't recall saying you wouldn't be able to roll alts. I was only saying if you eliminate the need to roll alts, the problem will be solved, without taking away anything. Most people don't reroll simply because they want to try playing another race, but they want to try out another class as well. Make it able to be every class on one character, and you won't be forced to reroll every time you want to play a new class.
I don't understand how that fixes the problem posed. The issue is a lack of focus on one character, but despite it being one character, the focus on that character's development could be spread thin and thus you would end up with a jack-of-all-trades but expert in none which still, from what I see, is the same underlying issue.
Too many alts is really only a problem in 'goal-focused' guilds (eg raiding guilds, hardcore PvP guilds). For casual guilds alts can be a great guild builder since it allows people to do all kinds of stuff and not get locked into one role. Thus when there are significant power differences between characters, one can switch to a less powerful alt and group up with newer guildies. Also it allows casual guilds more flexibility where people can change roles in group content depending on who else is available. One of the primary reasons why I quit SWG was the 'one character per server per accout' rule. After I got my first character to a state I really liked I was not going to erase all that just to try new ways to play in that game. One of the key things I like about RPGs is that I can play through them in different ways and create distinct personalities for my characters. The test server idea only really address the issues of seeking the next FotM character. To me a character grows as you play him in the full game settings and throwaway characters are not fun. The idea of unlocking alt character slots once you reach max level on a previous character would work but it seems completely unnecessary and once again forces one away from exploring different facets of the game.
hell i some games ALTs is the real draw of the game. Star trek Online, Champions, City of Heroes. Being able to be a hero, then a villian, than a klingon, maybe your a human torch one day and the hulk the next.
I think your real problem is you want my end game raiders and have no way to get the alts, the solution is simple.
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
I don't recall saying you wouldn't be able to roll alts. I was only saying if you eliminate the need to roll alts, the problem will be solved, without taking away anything. Most people don't reroll simply because they want to try playing another race, but they want to try out another class as well. Make it able to be every class on one character, and you won't be forced to reroll every time you want to play a new class.
I don't understand how that fixes the problem posed. The issue is a lack of focus on one character, but despite it being one character, the focus on that character's development could be spread thin and thus you would end up with a jack-of-all-trades but expert in none which still, from what I see, is the same underlying issue.
make every character a shapeshifter! Then you can reroll race and class. Use some sort of hub to switch but its all in game. Basicly 1 name, 1 character but the "character select" is inside the game. You can play your new mage all you want but if someone needs for the lvl 100 Raid "hold on let me hit the form master"
What about actual Role-Players and their guilds? For them, the point is not to "advance" or "raid", its to explore their characters, stories, and interact socially in a 3D environment that provides the trappings and side mechanics.
What about soloists who prefer to run alone, paying for the game so they get new things to do, new stories to read, new vistas to see on a monthly basis, particularly those who also want the social chat capabilities?
Its not a sport for everyone. Some of us have stayed with the same game for years (City of Heroes in my case), played dozens of alts, and never once have cared if I unlock the shiny badge or finish the top level. I'm there to explore characters, craft personalities, and see cool stuff.
I am not gong to quote any particular response but try to respond to several of them at once. I am a leader in a guild on EQ2 the guild has been around since late November of 2004. I have been in the game from day 1 and in the guild since Jan 2005. I keep my character slots full of alts and so do most of the core members. Our guild is a casual guild most of us are not in any hurry to advance although several of us are finally rushing for level 80 on at least one character so as to be at cap for the launch of the new expansion. In fact some folk wonder how we have managed to get the guild to make it to Level 73 but our core group is very dedicated and gets the status we need. BUT if Sony had limited to one character slot till you max out your first toon or made it so all races were the same and you just shifted class then I would have left after a few months variety gives me options for different moods and attitudes anything else tends not to hold my interest. BTW wow lasted exactly one month with me and i was out of there.
If I had to stick to one character well then several game companies would have not seen much out of me.
DAoC - 1 main +27 alts on PvE server = 4 years subscription time. 7 level 50s and not one under 40
EQ2 - bought station pass so I could have 12 chars. rerolled 60 times, tried every class and several builds, had 12 slots full = 5 years 2 months subscriptions.
without an Alt to play, I would have probably dropped the subs in under 2 months. Alts help break the boredom of the game and make it interesting for me anyway because the so called end games in MMOs' suck.
Okay, now that I have your attention, I was thinking over my past experiences and I find that one things is constant: If a new guild has most of its members constantly rerolling alternate characters, that guild fails. This could be a cause or only a coorelation. Whether it's the cause or not is not the point of the post. I'd like to discuss your thoughts on alternate characters and the number of characters per account. To begin with, I'd like every game to have a test server like SWG has and DAoC had. Meaning, a place where you can roll characters and test them out, along with game mechanics and changes coming down the pipe-line. This would serve as a good place for people to test as many characters out as they want, before clogging the main servers up. Next, I'd like every game in the future to only offer 1 character per account at the start. This requires people to stick to one character, and allows for people to become known by their character. Anyone who's played SWG knows what I'm talking about. The test server solves the problem of people being indecisive on which character they want to play. You should be able to create a lot of characters on the test server, so you can compare and contrast them. But on the live servers, you can only have 1 per account. This also has the added benefit that guild leaders and members can be more confident that those in their guild are their main characters and will be active. I'm not sure about you all, but I grow tired of those afflicted with altitis, because they fall behind the main group in the guild, and then sometimes expect the main group to go back and help them. I get my fun from playing with a group of others in the game. So I'm motivated to keep leveling and playing, so that I can keep up with my online friends. However, I'm never in a rush, and I think the game is about the journey, not the destination, so don't derail the thread for that. Lastly, I think that in order to unlock more character slots, you should be required to level a character to max level. So if you want your second character slot, you need to get your first character to max level. If you want your 3rd character slot, you need to level up your second character to max level, and so on. This'll help people stay committed to their characters, and help stop people from jumping around from one character to the next, never getting far on any of them, and then quitting out of boredom. Before the accusations and immaturity starts, I'd like to say that I suffer from altitis as well, and have learned that if I'm ever going to enjoy the game and get to max level, I need to stick to one character, and ignore "the grass is greener" syndrome. So those of you with altitis, I feel your pain. All I can say is that I'd love to play with you all, not just in the 1-20 range, but the entire game. That's why I think this is necessary. Otherwise, you all will reach level 20, and reroll to something else and I'll never see you all again. That, or I'll have to keep an Excel page open with a list of your characters, so I know who is who in the guild. That's just annoying. I'd rather get to know the people playing along side of me, and it's hard when I can never group with you, because you keep rerolling or bouncing between characters.
Between the OP and Sovrath, who fall on the same side of this argument, I have to respectfully disagree. Basically what your asking for is locking down an OPTIONAL feature of most mmo's because of poor guild leadership and/or poor research when joining a guild.
If you're running a guild and want people to play a main rather than alts, that should be a part of the charter, clearly communicated to all new members and enforced by the guild leadership. For example, in City of Heroes, a game that lives and breathes based on people making alts, a guild might stipulate that you bring in x amount of prestige (guild currency in CoX) for the supergroup (guild), log in at least once a week or reach certain levels to run particular missions/taskforces on a set schedule, otherwise they get kicked. Yes, this means a bit of work on behalf of the leadership but, sometimes a guild leader has to be a bit of a manager too (or hire a manager as second in command).
If you're joining a guild, you need to do your research on the forums and interviewing prospective guildmasters. Kind of like a job, an interview goes both ways, it's not just about them interviewing you. If not known by reputation, you have to ask questions like "what is your stance on playing alts", "how cohesive is the guild and what kind of events do you run together"? That's, of course, if you're really adamant about this issue.
Restricting number of characters, free respecs, automatically enrolling in guilds -- sure, some games have incorporated these ideas, but they're more restrictive than anything else. Imposing your style of play because you like it or cannot appreciate and respect how others derive enjoyment is no reason to implement such things though. And frankly, from a publisher's perspective, the goal is to stretch out subscription times, either by incorporating re-playable content as an endgame (like WoW) or through re-rolling alts thus, locking this stuff down doesn't seem to be very likely from a dollars and cents perspective.
Next, I'd like every game in the future to only offer 1 character per account at the start. Good lord, no. On some MMOs I have over 50 characters. This limitation alone would assure that game never got my money.
Lastly, I think that in order to unlock more character slots, you should be required to level a character to max level. So if you want your second character slot, you need to get your first character to max level. If you want your 3rd character slot, you need to level up your second character to max level, and so on. This'll help people stay committed to their characters, and help stop people from jumping around from one character to the next, never getting far on any of them, and then quitting out of boredom. Why do you feel the need to control how other people play? I happen to like jumping around from character to character. Sometimes I feel like playing a high level one, other times a lowbie.
Before the accusations and immaturity starts, I'd like to say that I suffer from altitis as well, and have learned that if I'm ever going to enjoy the game and get to max level, I need to stick to one character, and ignore "the grass is greener" syndrome. So those of you with altitis, I feel your pain. All I can say is that I'd love to play with you all, not just in the 1-20 range, but the entire game. That's why I think this is necessary. Otherwise, you all will reach level 20, and reroll to something else and I'll never see you all again. That, or I'll have to keep an Excel page open with a list of your characters, so I know who is who in the guild. That's just annoying. I'd rather get to know the people playing along side of me, and it's hard when I can never group with you, because you keep rerolling or bouncing between characters. So I must change the way I prefer to play, because it is more beneficial to you? Sorry, but I play the way that's most fun to me. It seems to me that the whole point of your post is that people playing alts affects your game, and so you feel others should adjust their style to match yours.
If people need alts to stay interested in the game, then the game won't last them anyways. Their first character will continuously show them new content and places to see, as long as they're playing them. So if the new content and areas can't keep their interest, then what's the point in rerolling, since not too long in the near future, they'll just quit that character like they did the first one. Again, test servers could be used to test out characters. Is it possible that the player just doesn't like the way that type of class plays? Maybe after 10 or 20 levels, they decide that they'd rather finish exploring the game with, say, a meleer instead of a caster. But your method would penalize them. You're saying "No. You've created your one character, now finish it to the top level or you won't get another!" ...and when a person is splitting their time between characters, they're not nearly as good as they could be if they focused on mastering one class. That alone hurts the community, because you're a less effective group member. I wholeheartedly disagree. Any player who has tried all the classes will have a much better understanding of the capabilities of each, the strengths and weaknesses of each class. That will make them a better group member.
I wouldn't be bothered if you never played the game if it implemented my idea, because you're probably not the type of person who I'd play with, since you'd likely never be around my level, nor would you stick on one character long enough for me to trust you enough to add to my friends list.
My entire thread, and everyone in it has been flame free and non-provoking, yet you felt the need to provoke me by telling me I'm controlling? In most things in life, there are those with ideas, and those that follow. In MMORPG's, strong communities are remembered and make the game more fun. So I'm speaking of my idea, that'll help make the community stronger. So it's not about pleasing me, rather it's about what's good for the community as a whole; what'll make a strong community. Your attitude is a "me me me" attitude. You want to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, and damn anyone elses wants or needs. If you don't care about the people you play with, then that's your right, but don't expect me to change my idea to cater to you, since you don't care about other people anyways.
Now if you have an actual idea on how to foster strong cohesive communties, not just guild communities, while still allowing for altitis inflicted members, then please share them and point to examples of where this has been tried and proven successful. My idea has been tried, and has been successful in SWG.
Someone who tries all the classes will have an idea of what each class is about, but you could really only accurately comment on what you've physically played yourself. So if you've only played a class to lvl 20, and the level cap is 50, then how could you say you can accurately surmise what that class can do off those 20 levels? Believe me, after playing 40 classes in DAoC, I do understand how playing all those classes can give you an edge when forming groups and fighting other classes, but to accurately know who can do what, you need to get them to a high level, which takes a lot of time. So in the short term, meaning 3-6 months, focusing on a main is more beneficial to the community than focusing on a handful of alts.
I do like how if someone disagrees with you its a flame thread...
I totally agree with this person and i have multiple reasons why i make alts....
I make alts cause i enjoy testing builds to see which suits me and how each class performs for me...
I also make alts cause i don't care if i finish the game in max level or whatever, get max level in a week, a month, or to be the best or have the best stats, who cares its a game. I enjoy my game for the experience of the game. you know play at my own speed, check out new stuff at my pace. i usually play PvE for this kind of reason. As PvP is be a "die hard try hard" or lose 24/7 and i don't personally like that, my epeen is big enough thanks.
last reason i make alts is nerfing. I play classes and if while i'm playing the Game Devs decide my class should be nerfed or ruined, i can jump to my other class and continue to play unhindered (has happened to me before).
Next, I'd like every game in the future to only offer 1 character per account at the start. Good lord, no. On some MMOs I have over 50 characters. This limitation alone would assure that game never got my money.
Lastly, I think that in order to unlock more character slots, you should be required to level a character to max level. So if you want your second character slot, you need to get your first character to max level. If you want your 3rd character slot, you need to level up your second character to max level, and so on. This'll help people stay committed to their characters, and help stop people from jumping around from one character to the next, never getting far on any of them, and then quitting out of boredom. Why do you feel the need to control how other people play? I happen to like jumping around from character to character. Sometimes I feel like playing a high level one, other times a lowbie.
Before the accusations and immaturity starts, I'd like to say that I suffer from altitis as well, and have learned that if I'm ever going to enjoy the game and get to max level, I need to stick to one character, and ignore "the grass is greener" syndrome. So those of you with altitis, I feel your pain. All I can say is that I'd love to play with you all, not just in the 1-20 range, but the entire game. That's why I think this is necessary. Otherwise, you all will reach level 20, and reroll to something else and I'll never see you all again. That, or I'll have to keep an Excel page open with a list of your characters, so I know who is who in the guild. That's just annoying. I'd rather get to know the people playing along side of me, and it's hard when I can never group with you, because you keep rerolling or bouncing between characters. So I must change the way I prefer to play, because it is more beneficial to you? Sorry, but I play the way that's most fun to me. It seems to me that the whole point of your post is that people playing alts affects your game, and so you feel others should adjust their style to match yours.
If people need alts to stay interested in the game, then the game won't last them anyways. Their first character will continuously show them new content and places to see, as long as they're playing them. So if the new content and areas can't keep their interest, then what's the point in rerolling, since not too long in the near future, they'll just quit that character like they did the first one. Again, test servers could be used to test out characters. Is it possible that the player just doesn't like the way that type of class plays? Maybe after 10 or 20 levels, they decide that they'd rather finish exploring the game with, say, a meleer instead of a caster. But your method would penalize them. You're saying "No. You've created your one character, now finish it to the top level or you won't get another!" ...and when a person is splitting their time between characters, they're not nearly as good as they could be if they focused on mastering one class. That alone hurts the community, because you're a less effective group member. I wholeheartedly disagree. Any player who has tried all the classes will have a much better understanding of the capabilities of each, the strengths and weaknesses of each class. That will make them a better group member.
I'd like to second this post 110%, the OP is very me me me me me me me and that just seems like a bad way to design limitations for a game.
its not about limiting players its about finding people in the game you play that share the way you want to play.
Maybe a bit late to jump on the scene but I must concur with those who dislike the idea. Even if characters can be easily and effortlessly respec'ed it still wouldn't work for me. My characters are just that characters in the world. They are not Dustin in Wonderland. They are Sir Plexiton of Green Acres, Knight of the Trinity or the ilk. So I like alts, they let me play various flavors. . . I can bore of certain characters for a short time(note: I said character not class or race or game, I mean the personality itself). Some characters can be more trying than others, so being able to take a break and taste another is quite nice.
However, don't mistake me for a roleplayer(or at least not a serious one). Yeah, all my characters have back stories and personalities. But the 'brigand' ones don't generally go around harassing other players(Normally I don't get into it so much that I would grief other players, NPC's though are fair game!). Well long story short I don't actually play the character's role, but I don't let the role flavor the character. If that made any sense to anyone.
Anyways what that means is that I play more if I can alt, I also end up with higher level mains(since I more quickly recover from the burn out of my main if I can try a different flavor). Not alts means that to try out a new flavor I try a new game. New game may hook me(particularly if it has alts) thus taking my membership elsewhere.
Going back on topic or rather back to the OP. Games having test servers I think is a real good idea. I loved those, but then again I also like testy wacky builds.
And work perfectly people get a real feel with there character they keep building and become stronger and becouse in darkfall your not limited to a class or also you can never screw it up.
More mmo's should go for this approach it works great.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
As of right now most mmo's you can choose more characters.
And how many mmo's have option where you can choose only one character hmm let me think.....uhh only 1 Darkfall.
So maybe would not be bad if a few more mmo's have same option, go for this option limited to one character if you like.
Darkfall have choice to be whatever you like to be melee/magic/archer with one character, becouse thats what you can be in darkfall oneday you play melee becouse your in mood for some melee slashing other day your in mood to use magic and then bow.
And wait you can also use all 3 switch when it suited you most in whatever situation.
Thats beauty of Darkfall you can be whatever you like but still limited to one race one character per server.
Only downside maybe is you can't play other race you stick with race you choose rest is freedom becouse all races have same option you can be all 3 at ones, btw you can also be a crafter and be a pvper.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Comments
I am a person that enjoys alts. Not a ton, but 2-3 characters per game. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. On the same token, I don't think there's anything wrong if you don't like alts.
Obviously, I won't fit into your guild. I'm ok with that. Just like you wouldn't want to be in mine. I generally like more social type guilds that help each other level and have fun. I don't know how that equals a "failed" guild. I'm still trying to figure out how a guild "fails". Is there a test?
Anyway, to the point. I'll play my way in my guild. You play your way in yours. and lets both be happy that we are supporting each others favorite game.
Yes, what we really need in a game we buy, then pay a monthly fee, is more limitations. first they limit the amount of options we have in creating our character then they limit the amount of options we have in developing our character, then they limit the options we have in exploring the world making htem more and more like singleplayer tunnels, more than livng brathing worlds... then limit the options we have on impact in the world, no housebuilding no politics no galaxy trade pretty much nothing but level, then raid... Now,,,, you think that the best way to continue the evolution of MMOS... limit the characters we want to play and force us to only play one.
I REALLY can not see what exactly it is we are paying for anymore... Now the costumers themselves are tapping into the same mindset that we should pay for less? Pathetic...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
It sounds like you and the OP are talking about a multiclass system akin to Dream Of Mirror Online (herein DOMO). Instead of limiting an account to one toon, you are limited to two. Your toon starts off as a level 1 Commoner, and after a half an hour of gameplay (actually reading the backstory of each of the four races) you are around level 7 or 8. Now, the game opens up at level 10. When you get to level 10, you are able to go for your first "job", and there are twelve, yes, TWELVE, job classes, including Commoner. After you've qualified for that job, say Wizard, you don't have to do qualify again. You can switch effortlessly from one job to another. It works even in guilds when you want to group with lower level players. So you could potentially be any combination of those twelve jobs (Hunter [Archer]/Warrior [Blademaster], Thief/Doctor [Cleric],etc.)
What I don't agree with is the idea of unlocking more character slots. How would that improve the community? It would only inhibit those that want to explore the world from a different race's point of view. If I had to play through an entire MMO to the end-game as, say, an elf noble, just to unlock the ability to make another character I would be beyond frustrated since I just spent 1000+ hours grinding/questing just to get to the point where I could make another. The whole point of alts in my opinion is to allow players the opportunity to experience the game from another race/classes point of view
(lol and yes, this is my first post ever. Seemed like a good enough reason to stop lurking)
I think I kind of ruined my enjoyment of WoW creating too many alts.
For me having Alts is a good thing, I'm still a Fan of Sandbox MMO's first and foremost. There aren't many, and though I'm sure some of you will laugh I'm still an active subscriber to Ultima Online and have been for the most part since 1999 for this reason. The problem with Alts is lazy players and lazy developers. Let me explain both of these.
Lazy Players. They want instant gratification straight out of the box, the ability for a character to acquire every single non "Class" skill kills a character. It's taking the Role Play out of MMORPG's, it's turned games into a Trig equation. "If I assign {x} amount of my XP to AA's and divide that by between {y} abilities get {z} piece of armor I'll be awesome!", it's a game it's intended to be entertaining not a test of higher mathmatics. Like I said I'm still a Ultima Online Player, my favorite alt became more or less my main, I spend most of my time playing in a PvP zone with a character with 0 offense, the character is built on stealth and ability to disengage from combat situations. The Character is a Thief, I sneak up on players and hopefully find something on them worth stealing, 99% of the time there's nothing but the entertainment value makes up for it even if I spend months getting nothing out of it.
Players look for over simplification these days which is part of the instant Gratification, WoW, EQ, WAR, etc. all fall victim to this they are all cookie cutter with variances in Graphics, Races, and minor sub systems and controls. Once you max out a toon or get bored with the daily grind your only option is an Alt. Sandbox you don't have this issue generally, you decide you don't want to be a Warrior type anymore fine, become a mage and give up your warrior abilities, it's that simple. Level based Games will always fall behind on depth, complexity, and real honest to truth game play innovation because once you roll a toon your locked into that skill set, this makes Alts very necessary to provide replay, or continual play value and for a player to explore all facets of the game. Sandbox it allows for players to actually become citizens in a Virtual world, where your character can actually evolve over time not just "Ding LvL Up!". All because Players are too lazy and too easily placated with mediocre. Sure WoW has 10+ million subs guess what there's only 10 races and 10 classes. With that many player toons quickly become nothing short of cookie cutter copies of each other, destroying any chance except for the lucky few to really carve out a virtual persona that actually influences the server you play on.
On to Lazy Developers, Sony, Blizzard, Mythic, nDoors, NCSoft, BioWare, they are all guilty. Sure I'll be the first to admit that a great deal of talent goes into the concept, design and initial coding for any game or expansion. But far too often once a MMO is out the gate it hits Cruise Control between expansion development periods. Outside of Global Events that can be patched in, and silly Quests what really innovative happens between Expansions? Bug fixes, yea they are important but unless your team is really understaffed they aren't really doing much for player experience on a wide scale most of the time. You want to know where the best work for a post launch MMO happens? Usually in the Emulation Communities that try to secretly build up around them. Why? Because the people doing it because they want too, and aren't bound by deadlines, side tracked by reviews and meetings, and aren't bound by the scriptures and guide lines that corporations place on their development teams that hamper the creative process. What you get is a bunch of cookie cutter MMO's Find me a major innovation from EQ to WoW that doesn't involve Graphics? Seriously find me anything in WoW that really changes how you play the game that EQ didn't have? Voice Chat doesn't count since no form of VoIP was mainstream till 1999 when SIP and IP-PBX hit the scene. Names and animations FX, are simply graphical differences and are only really skin deep. Really when your playing the same game over and over you need to find an outlet to explore the possibilities and if the developers don't readily provide it then you need Alt Characters in these cookie cutter games to provide variance from the routine yourself.
Once again let me refer to Ultima, they have an entire program made up of players that do nothing but design and run events for players, why? So the Developers can do their jobs and really work on developing things. Atlantica Online another MMO I play does more to keep players active and interested than 90% of the MMO's out there. Sure it's a Grind game, but no where do I see the GM Staff dueling players as regular events, Daily PvP Tournaments, Weekly Cross Server PvP Tournaments, Events every 1-2 weeks, and all this from a F2P game that gets consistent updates in not only game content, but graphical changes, control feature improvement, but most of all new ways to encourage Player to Player interaction beyond "Raids". Ultima Online in it's prime strongly encouraged Player to Player interaction, but has had to slowly adapt to market trends to survive making it a shadow of what it once was, even though it's got more depth than half the currently produced MMORPG's combined.
So you want to know why Alts are important, because if you don't have them what are you going to do when the Glam and Glitter wears off and you realize you've been playing a cookie cutter clone of the game you probably quit, after you strip away all the Eye Candy.
Many people such as my wife enjoy leveling. It is not their primary goal to have a "main" that is advanced to max level with the best gear, but to have fun advancing their characters. My wife, I doubt, would play a game that would limit or eliminate her ability to make alts. If you don't want your guild to fail due to people spreading their focus across multiple characters, find like-minded people to be in a guild with. I'm a person who focuses on one character. Most of the time if I roll an alt it's for extra storage space or to play when things are dead and there's nothing for my main to do. But the point I'm trying to make here is that you have to find like-minded people to play with. It's the same for the inverse in that it would make a casual player unhappy to be in a hard-core progressive raiding guild.
And this problem would be solved by just making you able to level all the classes on one character... 10 characters each with different class becomes too much of a hassle. One character with 10 classes is much easier to manage, and you can get more attached to it than 10 different ones.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
I don't recall saying you wouldn't be able to roll alts. I was only saying if you eliminate the need to roll alts, the problem will be solved, without taking away anything. Most people don't reroll simply because they want to try playing another race, but they want to try out another class as well. Make it able to be every class on one character, and you won't be forced to reroll every time you want to play a new class.
I wasn't talking about a multi-class system, but that's one way to do things. There are multiple ways to do what I said, so it's really a matter of choice. What I propose should help the community grow stronger, as I've explained in previous posts. Most people who are altoholics do not really contribute to the community; they basically only play for themselves. That's fine, but those people can't expect me to think of their needs in my ideas, when my idealism is centered on making a community stronger.
As for unlocking more character slots, I felt this was a good idea, because it forced people to stick with one character until completion, while also allowing for people to explore the world through another characters eyes. If playing the game until completion with one character is so boring, then perhaps MMO gaming isn't for that person or perhaps the game in particular isn't for that person. However, the idea was only meant to foster discussion. Feel free to suggest alternatives.
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
I don't recall saying you wouldn't be able to roll alts. I was only saying if you eliminate the need to roll alts, the problem will be solved, without taking away anything. Most people don't reroll simply because they want to try playing another race, but they want to try out another class as well. Make it able to be every class on one character, and you won't be forced to reroll every time you want to play a new class.
I don't understand how that fixes the problem posed. The issue is a lack of focus on one character, but despite it being one character, the focus on that character's development could be spread thin and thus you would end up with a jack-of-all-trades but expert in none which still, from what I see, is the same underlying issue.
hell i some games ALTs is the real draw of the game. Star trek Online, Champions, City of Heroes. Being able to be a hero, then a villian, than a klingon, maybe your a human torch one day and the hulk the next.
I think your real problem is you want my end game raiders and have no way to get the alts, the solution is simple.
Sidekick system
I don't agree with this as being a solution for everyone. Some people like to play different races and areas. You may want to play a high elf, elf or night elf and then also play a human, hobbit or dwarf for a different experience.
Well, I was responding mainly to the OP, who said that if most of the members in a guild roll alternate characters, that guild fails. However, if only some of them do that, it's not such a big problem.
If the races only offer aesthetical differences (as they should), then not many will reroll another character of different race when the same character you've gotten attached to can do everything that second character could, while those who like to play different races can do just that, without penalties.
I still have to say I disagree, unfortunately. The solution only hurts people and doesn't help. If people want to roll alts but they can't, they will be unhappy and bored. However, if alts are allowed, you're not forced to roll them and play them. Like I said, it comes down to ensuring you're playing with people who have a similar play style to yourself if that's what you want your experience to be.
It just doesn't make sense to me to limit or eliminate a mechanic that so many people use and enjoy simply because a guild chose their players poorly for the goal they want to achieve.
I don't recall saying you wouldn't be able to roll alts. I was only saying if you eliminate the need to roll alts, the problem will be solved, without taking away anything. Most people don't reroll simply because they want to try playing another race, but they want to try out another class as well. Make it able to be every class on one character, and you won't be forced to reroll every time you want to play a new class.
I don't understand how that fixes the problem posed. The issue is a lack of focus on one character, but despite it being one character, the focus on that character's development could be spread thin and thus you would end up with a jack-of-all-trades but expert in none which still, from what I see, is the same underlying issue.
make every character a shapeshifter! Then you can reroll race and class. Use some sort of hub to switch but its all in game. Basicly 1 name, 1 character but the "character select" is inside the game. You can play your new mage all you want but if someone needs for the lvl 100 Raid "hold on let me hit the form master"
What about actual Role-Players and their guilds? For them, the point is not to "advance" or "raid", its to explore their characters, stories, and interact socially in a 3D environment that provides the trappings and side mechanics.
What about soloists who prefer to run alone, paying for the game so they get new things to do, new stories to read, new vistas to see on a monthly basis, particularly those who also want the social chat capabilities?
Its not a sport for everyone. Some of us have stayed with the same game for years (City of Heroes in my case), played dozens of alts, and never once have cared if I unlock the shiny badge or finish the top level. I'm there to explore characters, craft personalities, and see cool stuff.
If I had to stick to one character well then several game companies would have not seen much out of me.
DAoC - 1 main +27 alts on PvE server = 4 years subscription time. 7 level 50s and not one under 40
EQ2 - bought station pass so I could have 12 chars. rerolled 60 times, tried every class and several builds, had 12 slots full = 5 years 2 months subscriptions.
without an Alt to play, I would have probably dropped the subs in under 2 months. Alts help break the boredom of the game and make it interesting for me anyway because the so called end games in MMOs' suck.
I bet I am not the only one that does this.
Between the OP and Sovrath, who fall on the same side of this argument, I have to respectfully disagree. Basically what your asking for is locking down an OPTIONAL feature of most mmo's because of poor guild leadership and/or poor research when joining a guild.
If you're running a guild and want people to play a main rather than alts, that should be a part of the charter, clearly communicated to all new members and enforced by the guild leadership. For example, in City of Heroes, a game that lives and breathes based on people making alts, a guild might stipulate that you bring in x amount of prestige (guild currency in CoX) for the supergroup (guild), log in at least once a week or reach certain levels to run particular missions/taskforces on a set schedule, otherwise they get kicked. Yes, this means a bit of work on behalf of the leadership but, sometimes a guild leader has to be a bit of a manager too (or hire a manager as second in command).
If you're joining a guild, you need to do your research on the forums and interviewing prospective guildmasters. Kind of like a job, an interview goes both ways, it's not just about them interviewing you. If not known by reputation, you have to ask questions like "what is your stance on playing alts", "how cohesive is the guild and what kind of events do you run together"? That's, of course, if you're really adamant about this issue.
Restricting number of characters, free respecs, automatically enrolling in guilds -- sure, some games have incorporated these ideas, but they're more restrictive than anything else. Imposing your style of play because you like it or cannot appreciate and respect how others derive enjoyment is no reason to implement such things though. And frankly, from a publisher's perspective, the goal is to stretch out subscription times, either by incorporating re-playable content as an endgame (like WoW) or through re-rolling alts thus, locking this stuff down doesn't seem to be very likely from a dollars and cents perspective.
I wouldn't be bothered if you never played the game if it implemented my idea, because you're probably not the type of person who I'd play with, since you'd likely never be around my level, nor would you stick on one character long enough for me to trust you enough to add to my friends list.
My entire thread, and everyone in it has been flame free and non-provoking, yet you felt the need to provoke me by telling me I'm controlling? In most things in life, there are those with ideas, and those that follow. In MMORPG's, strong communities are remembered and make the game more fun. So I'm speaking of my idea, that'll help make the community stronger. So it's not about pleasing me, rather it's about what's good for the community as a whole; what'll make a strong community. Your attitude is a "me me me" attitude. You want to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, and damn anyone elses wants or needs. If you don't care about the people you play with, then that's your right, but don't expect me to change my idea to cater to you, since you don't care about other people anyways.
Now if you have an actual idea on how to foster strong cohesive communties, not just guild communities, while still allowing for altitis inflicted members, then please share them and point to examples of where this has been tried and proven successful. My idea has been tried, and has been successful in SWG.
Someone who tries all the classes will have an idea of what each class is about, but you could really only accurately comment on what you've physically played yourself. So if you've only played a class to lvl 20, and the level cap is 50, then how could you say you can accurately surmise what that class can do off those 20 levels? Believe me, after playing 40 classes in DAoC, I do understand how playing all those classes can give you an edge when forming groups and fighting other classes, but to accurately know who can do what, you need to get them to a high level, which takes a lot of time. So in the short term, meaning 3-6 months, focusing on a main is more beneficial to the community than focusing on a handful of alts.
I do like how if someone disagrees with you its a flame thread...
I totally agree with this person and i have multiple reasons why i make alts....
I make alts cause i enjoy testing builds to see which suits me and how each class performs for me...
I also make alts cause i don't care if i finish the game in max level or whatever, get max level in a week, a month, or to be the best or have the best stats, who cares its a game. I enjoy my game for the experience of the game. you know play at my own speed, check out new stuff at my pace. i usually play PvE for this kind of reason. As PvP is be a "die hard try hard" or lose 24/7 and i don't personally like that, my epeen is big enough thanks.
last reason i make alts is nerfing. I play classes and if while i'm playing the Game Devs decide my class should be nerfed or ruined, i can jump to my other class and continue to play unhindered (has happened to me before).
I'd like to second this post 110%, the OP is very me me me me me me me and that just seems like a bad way to design limitations for a game.
its not about limiting players its about finding people in the game you play that share the way you want to play.
Maybe a bit late to jump on the scene but I must concur with those who dislike the idea. Even if characters can be easily and effortlessly respec'ed it still wouldn't work for me. My characters are just that characters in the world. They are not Dustin in Wonderland. They are Sir Plexiton of Green Acres, Knight of the Trinity or the ilk. So I like alts, they let me play various flavors. . . I can bore of certain characters for a short time(note: I said character not class or race or game, I mean the personality itself). Some characters can be more trying than others, so being able to take a break and taste another is quite nice.
However, don't mistake me for a roleplayer(or at least not a serious one). Yeah, all my characters have back stories and personalities. But the 'brigand' ones don't generally go around harassing other players(Normally I don't get into it so much that I would grief other players, NPC's though are fair game!). Well long story short I don't actually play the character's role, but I don't let the role flavor the character. If that made any sense to anyone.
Anyways what that means is that I play more if I can alt, I also end up with higher level mains(since I more quickly recover from the burn out of my main if I can try a different flavor). Not alts means that to try out a new flavor I try a new game. New game may hook me(particularly if it has alts) thus taking my membership elsewhere.
Going back on topic or rather back to the OP. Games having test servers I think is a real good idea. I loved those, but then again I also like testy wacky builds.
And work perfectly people get a real feel with there character they keep building and become stronger and becouse in darkfall your not limited to a class or also you can never screw it up.
More mmo's should go for this approach it works great.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
As of right now most mmo's you can choose more characters.
And how many mmo's have option where you can choose only one character hmm let me think.....uhh only 1 Darkfall.
So maybe would not be bad if a few more mmo's have same option, go for this option limited to one character if you like.
Darkfall have choice to be whatever you like to be melee/magic/archer with one character, becouse thats what you can be in darkfall oneday you play melee becouse your in mood for some melee slashing other day your in mood to use magic and then bow.
And wait you can also use all 3 switch when it suited you most in whatever situation.
Thats beauty of Darkfall you can be whatever you like but still limited to one race one character per server.
Only downside maybe is you can't play other race you stick with race you choose rest is freedom becouse all races have same option you can be all 3 at ones, btw you can also be a crafter and be a pvper.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.