Originally posted by Novaseeker OK now u r changing what you were saying. Now you are saing some skills arent worth taking. or that they are broken. I could argue about druid cat form but thats a different topic. In any case, broken or not, there are a lot of new skills to gain, you are not stuck with just upgrades.
Okay I don't count the feral skills because the consensus of most of the Druid player base (again, exceptions aside because they only serve to prove the rule, really) is that the feral tree is broken. So I simply don't count those. Other than the feral skills, there is not much new on offer after level 20. You're pretty much looking at improvements to your core skills.
Let's take another class. Mages. What new abilities (ie, new Rank 1 abilities) does the Mage get after level 20? He gets port spells, upgraded food and drink conjuring spells ... what else? Other than portals or conjuring, I counted 4-5 new spells total. Other than that it is upgrades to existing spells.
What about the priest? He gets about another 8-9 rank one skills after level 20 (more than the Mage, but about the same if you equalize for the mage's port and conjuring spells).
The moral of the story is that for the most part for most classes you don't get a lot new after level 20.
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/spelllist.html?class=Mage i counted 12 new level 1 skills, not counting teleport or summon skills. Also, add to those skills that you can gain through talents and you might get it to 15-20. Once again, some skills may be very close to those u already have (like new goup buf vs single target buff) so if u count those out as well u still get around 10-15 new skills after level 20. I think that is very good number still.
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/spelllist.html?class=Mage i counted 12 new level 1 skills, not counting teleport or summon skills. Also, add to those skills that you can gain through talents and you might get it to 15-20. Once again, some skills may be very close to those u already have (like new goup buf vs single target buff) so if u count those out as well u still get around 10-15 new skills after level 20. I think that is very good number still.
I count the following 7 new rank one spells (non port, nonconjuring) *after* level 20 (that is beginning with lvl 22):
So I think that the number is quite a bit lower, but I guess we also have different thresholds. To me, and using the mage as an example, I think it frankly sucks to have only 7 new spells after level 20. There are 40 more levels to go, 20 of them at which you gain new abilities and 7 new abilities just sucks, in my opinion. It makes things pretty boring and repetitive. I remember when I was hunting the Naga in Stranglethorn and Feralas and thinking to myself "this is the same spell routine and the same enemy as it was 10-25 levels ago ... the enemy is stronger and my spells are stronger, and that is the only difference". That is just a recipe for boredom, in my opinion. YMMV. It was boring for me, doesnt mean it will be boring for everyone. I like EQ2 where I get new spells each level and can also upgrade whatever spells I want whenever I want plus every few levels I get a bonus ability or trait to choose from. To me, it seems like a lot more variety of spells, and I enjoy that more because it keeps changing the playstyle, but I agree that YMMV on this.
On the talent pool ... the additional abilities you get access through the talent pool can not be counted the same way as abilities you can get at a certain level because many of the ones that are truly additional abilities as opposed to upgrades to existing ones require that you invest a goodly number of points in that tree, and so your calculation of what is available to you for certain levels needs to be adjusted to reflect that. And in any case, there are not that many new things in the talent tree -- there are some, but most of it is upgrades and enhancements to existing things.
Aye, you get 5 new skills at 20, so it boils down to 7 as you said new skills starting with level 22. but I dont understand why you dont count new skills starting with level 20.. or even earlier. Basicaly in EQ2 u get one skill per level, in WoW you get bunch of them at one level, then one or two at another. Its a different way but once u do calculations like I did, you will see that its not that much different. one new skill every 2nd level. It varies with class of course, my rogue has TOO many skills heh and I get so confused at times that I dont know what skill to use, or use that skill not when it most matters.
Also, some items work just like skills. For example, as a gnome engineer, I have several clickable items that I can use as skills - one item is Harm Prevention Belt - I activate it for a shield that takes 500 dmg, but the trick with gnomengineering, things dont always work as they should heh. That shield tends to move me into a different dimension, unable to move or perform any action and no1 can do any action on me too. I have around 4-5 those types of items, not exactly skills but they are still clickable, and, depends on tactical situation, may save your life and it also adds to the variaty of things u can do.
As an example, my rogue has about 2.5 bars filled with skills (including clickable items). Im not including skills like mining, poison crafting etc. Im including skills/clickables that I can use in combat.
So, if in your opinion mage lacks in variaty, I highly recommend playing a rogue. Rogues are extremely fun to play because we can sneak around, we can spy, pickpoket, reach places where other classes must fight to get and we can do insane amount of dmg, sometimes challenging Mages to the highest DPS. Check my profile to see some of the items in equipped, i have several more clickables but they are in the bag, I use them whenever situation calls for it.
So, if in your opinion mage lacks in variaty, I highly recommend playing a rogue. Rogues are extremely fun to play because we can sneak around, we can spy, pickpoket, reach places where other classes must fight to get and we can do insane amount of dmg, sometimes challenging Mages to the highest DPS.
Oh I know, rogues are different. I played mostly a Druid. I duo'd a lot with a Mage, so I know what they can do as well pretty well. I rolled a rogue on a PvP server, but I didn't feel very enthusiastic about redoing a lot of the same quests as I did with my Druid. The sneaking part was not new to me (Druids can do that too in cat form), but the DPS is, as you say, insane. If I come back to WoW at some point actively I may take up my rogue again.
Originally posted by Novaseeker So, if in your opinion mage lacks in variaty, I highly recommend playing a rogue. Rogues are extremely fun to play because we can sneak around, we can spy, pickpoket, reach places where other classes must fight to get and we can do insane amount of dmg, sometimes challenging Mages to the highest DPS.
Oh I know, rogues are different. I played mostly a Druid. I duo'd a lot with a Mage, so I know what they can do as well pretty well. I rolled a rogue on a PvP server, but I didn't feel very enthusiastic about redoing a lot of the same quests as I did with my Druid. The sneaking part was not new to me (Druids can do that too in cat form), but the DPS is, as you say, insane. If I come back to WoW at some point actively I may take up my rogue again.
Aye I know what you mean. basicaly, playing for alliance, you have 3 ways to level, dwarven/gnomish way, human way and elven way. Once I leveld my gnome rogue and I wanted to level my warrior it was boring... Sure it was familiar, but it started to feel like routine. Thats why I dont have many alts, atm i have 1, elf. So if I start an alt, i will most likely go to human place and level there. Hopefully by the time i start another alt, i will forget most of the stuff I did in noob areas so it wont feel as much routine anymore. I wish bliz would add a few more zones, low and high level to go into.
i really didn't wanted to start a math contest here
I was speaking of impression alone, i didn't count how many skills i got in comparison with DaoC or EQ. Fact stands that my hunter, level 19th, at the moment has 3 bars of skills. 1 for melee, one for ranged and one for buffs/traps. plus there are the pet skills, the potions, the bandage and the engineering tools. So quite the bunch.
My druid, also level 19, has a full bar of skills as human, plus the bear (and later cat) bars. not to count the myriad potions i can do as an alchemist.
Now, i won't get many after level 20? fine, i am not gonna argue if 7 is few or many, but, honestly, how many games gives you new abilities after the mid levels? Sure, couple, but ot many.
Let's take DAoC for example, as a Fire mage i had practically three spells coming from my speciality. Bolt, DD damage and AoE damage. that. is. all. (oh yeah! forgot the bladeturn!) As levels goes up i get new spells with fancy names that were simple new DDs, or AoE or bolt. No conjure food, no teleport, no polymorph in sheep and so on. to those i can add the basic spells that every Wizard, that would be what? 5 more? and i get most of them long before level 20.
So, in conclusion, i particularly do not care if i do not get tons of new skills after level 20, in comparison to other games, i had the impression they were quite a bunch already, but hey! to each his own.
Have a nice day.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Aye I know what you mean. basicaly, playing for alliance, you have 3 ways to level, dwarven/gnomish way, human way and elven way. Once I leveld my gnome rogue and I wanted to level my warrior it was boring... Sure it was familiar, but it started to feel like routine. Thats why I dont have many alts, atm i have 1, elf. So if I start an alt, i will most likely go to human place and level there. Hopefully by the time i start another alt, i will forget most of the stuff I did in noob areas so it wont feel as much routine anymore. I wish bliz would add a few more zones, low and high level to go into.
well, i was wondering about that as well, but then i realized there is nothing stopping to bring my gnome to the NE area if i want to. The quests aren't race specific, so if you do so, you will do the NE quests as a gnome.
Same for the human starting area. It might take a while to get to the NE area (the human one, if you a gnome/dwarf, is quite easy and other way around) but at level 1 who cares if you die couple times on the road? is not that you will keep the newbie equipment long in anycase.
Have a nice day.
oh and thanks for your post
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Originally posted by Kraptor Well, the gameIS EASY if u like it or not and I am not talking about lvling and such. The rewards are too good, u receive imo a bit tooo much money from mob drops and u can sell the mob loot for a bit too much. So overall I think it is much easier then the other mmogames outher there right now. My only biggest problem with this game is the audience, that can be a turn off sometimes and the graphics is quite outdated but if it is your 1st mmo cause lots of ppl will play WOW as their first mmo, then you probably will like it. I just playes a day but the world didnt really pull me in and the lag was/is pretty annoying.
you played it one day and think the rewards were too good? Heck! what kind of quests were you doing in one day? My main is level 19th dwarf hunter, he has less than 1 gold piece at the moment. Money is NEVER enough as i need money to train my powers, money to buy new armor and so on. Maybe later one i will have tons of money, but considering at 40th i have to shell 100 gold out for the mount.... i do not see me being rich anytime soon.
And yes, i regularly use the Auction House.
The graphics are NOT outdated. they are stylish. Is not that blizzard art department is populated by primitives that do not know how to use a art program, they decided to stick with the Warcraft style (surprise surprise eh?). The results, in my opinion, are incredible. there is so much variety and places in this world that will let you amazed. An example about fog: always in previous MMorpg you would see buildings pop out of nowhere, fog or no fog. Here, in Darkshore, while coming from Darnassus, you will se first a light floating on nowhere... then moments later the lighthouse emerges from the gray fog.. like it actually should do!
Havea nice day.
The graphics are dated, if you can see polygons then the game graphics sucks for me in this time and period.
Originally posted by BarryManilow The graphics are dated, if you can see polygons then the game graphics sucks for me in this time and period.
If you see polygons that means either your vidcard sux, your drivers are outdated or your settings are all screwed up. I had this poly problem with WoW, but after tuning up my settings and updated my vid drivers, graphics are wonderfull! I recommend the same to everrybody, if you (I dont mean specificaly you Barry) arent very computer literate, read into it a bit, it will help a lot in WoW and any other game to know your vid card and what some options do. By tweaking my vid card settings I GREATLY decreased lag in cities and my gnome has sharp lower lib no more (looked realy ugly )
I think World Of warcraft is the best mmorpg of the moment. I was playing lineage 2 before and when I started WoW I was like OMG the same day I gave all my stuff of my lvl 50s character in lineage n canceled my account.
Im playing WoW since 2 months now *lvl35 undead mage an I can told you This game is AWSOME I really enjoy quest, raid , pvp and the game ambiance everything that was missing in other mmorpg seems to be in wow and cant wait until Battleground come out!!! Geez !!!
Comments
Okay I don't count the feral skills because the consensus of most of the Druid player base (again, exceptions aside because they only serve to prove the rule, really) is that the feral tree is broken. So I simply don't count those. Other than the feral skills, there is not much new on offer after level 20. You're pretty much looking at improvements to your core skills.
Let's take another class. Mages. What new abilities (ie, new Rank 1 abilities) does the Mage get after level 20? He gets port spells, upgraded food and drink conjuring spells ... what else? Other than portals or conjuring, I counted 4-5 new spells total. Other than that it is upgrades to existing spells.
What about the priest? He gets about another 8-9 rank one skills after level 20 (more than the Mage, but about the same if you equalize for the mage's port and conjuring spells).
The moral of the story is that for the most part for most classes you don't get a lot new after level 20.
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/spelllist.html?class=Mage
i counted 12 new level 1 skills, not counting teleport or summon skills.
Also, add to those skills that you can gain through talents and you might get it to 15-20. Once again, some skills may be very close to those u already have (like new goup buf vs single target buff) so if u count those out as well u still get around 10-15 new skills after level 20. I think that is very good number still.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I count the following 7 new rank one spells (non port, nonconjuring) *after* level 20 (that is beginning with lvl 22):
Frost Ward
Scorch
Counterspell
Cone of Cold
Ice Armor
Blast Wave
Ice Barrier.
So I think that the number is quite a bit lower, but I guess we also have different thresholds. To me, and using the mage as an example, I think it frankly sucks to have only 7 new spells after level 20. There are 40 more levels to go, 20 of them at which you gain new abilities and 7 new abilities just sucks, in my opinion. It makes things pretty boring and repetitive. I remember when I was hunting the Naga in Stranglethorn and Feralas and thinking to myself "this is the same spell routine and the same enemy as it was 10-25 levels ago ... the enemy is stronger and my spells are stronger, and that is the only difference". That is just a recipe for boredom, in my opinion. YMMV. It was boring for me, doesnt mean it will be boring for everyone. I like EQ2 where I get new spells each level and can also upgrade whatever spells I want whenever I want plus every few levels I get a bonus ability or trait to choose from. To me, it seems like a lot more variety of spells, and I enjoy that more because it keeps changing the playstyle, but I agree that YMMV on this.
On the talent pool ... the additional abilities you get access through the talent pool can not be counted the same way as abilities you can get at a certain level because many of the ones that are truly additional abilities as opposed to upgrades to existing ones require that you invest a goodly number of points in that tree, and so your calculation of what is available to you for certain levels needs to be adjusted to reflect that. And in any case, there are not that many new things in the talent tree -- there are some, but most of it is upgrades and enhancements to existing things.
Aye, you get 5 new skills at 20, so it boils down to 7 as you said new skills starting with level 22. but I dont understand why you dont count new skills starting with level 20.. or even earlier. Basicaly in EQ2 u get one skill per level, in WoW you get bunch of them at one level, then one or two at another. Its a different way but once u do calculations like I did, you will see that its not that much different. one new skill every 2nd level. It varies with class of course, my rogue has TOO many skills heh and I get so confused at times that I dont know what skill to use, or use that skill not when it most matters.
Also, some items work just like skills. For example, as a gnome engineer, I have several clickable items that I can use as skills - one item is Harm Prevention Belt - I activate it for a shield that takes 500 dmg, but the trick with gnomengineering, things dont always work as they should heh. That shield tends to move me into a different dimension, unable to move or perform any action and no1 can do any action on me too.
I have around 4-5 those types of items, not exactly skills but they are still clickable, and, depends on tactical situation, may save your life and it also adds to the variaty of things u can do.
As an example, my rogue has about 2.5 bars filled with skills (including clickable items). Im not including skills like mining, poison crafting etc. Im including skills/clickables that I can use in combat.
So, if in your opinion mage lacks in variaty, I highly recommend playing a rogue. Rogues are extremely fun to play because we can sneak around, we can spy, pickpoket, reach places where other classes must fight to get and we can do insane amount of dmg, sometimes challenging Mages to the highest DPS.
Check my profile to see some of the items in equipped, i have several more clickables but they are in the bag, I use them whenever situation calls for it.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Oh I know, rogues are different. I played mostly a Druid. I duo'd a lot with a Mage, so I know what they can do as well pretty well. I rolled a rogue on a PvP server, but I didn't feel very enthusiastic about redoing a lot of the same quests as I did with my Druid. The sneaking part was not new to me (Druids can do that too in cat form), but the DPS is, as you say, insane. If I come back to WoW at some point actively I may take up my rogue again.
Oh I know, rogues are different. I played mostly a Druid. I duo'd a lot with a Mage, so I know what they can do as well pretty well. I rolled a rogue on a PvP server, but I didn't feel very enthusiastic about redoing a lot of the same quests as I did with my Druid. The sneaking part was not new to me (Druids can do that too in cat form), but the DPS is, as you say, insane. If I come back to WoW at some point actively I may take up my rogue again.
Aye I know what you mean. basicaly, playing for alliance, you have 3 ways to level, dwarven/gnomish way, human way and elven way. Once I leveld my gnome rogue and I wanted to level my warrior it was boring... Sure it was familiar, but it started to feel like routine. Thats why I dont have many alts, atm i have 1, elf. So if I start an alt, i will most likely go to human place and level there. Hopefully by the time i start another alt, i will forget most of the stuff I did in noob areas so it wont feel as much routine anymore. I wish bliz would add a few more zones, low and high level to go into.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
i really didn't wanted to start a math contest here
I was speaking of impression alone, i didn't count how many skills i got in comparison with DaoC or EQ. Fact stands that my hunter, level 19th, at the moment has 3 bars of skills. 1 for melee, one for ranged and one for buffs/traps. plus there are the pet skills, the potions, the bandage and the engineering tools. So quite the bunch.
My druid, also level 19, has a full bar of skills as human, plus the bear (and later cat) bars. not to count the myriad potions i can do as an alchemist.
Now, i won't get many after level 20? fine, i am not gonna argue if 7 is few or many, but, honestly, how many games gives you new abilities after the mid levels? Sure, couple, but ot many.
Let's take DAoC for example, as a Fire mage i had practically three spells coming from my speciality. Bolt, DD damage and AoE damage. that. is. all. (oh yeah! forgot the bladeturn!) As levels goes up i get new spells with fancy names that were simple new DDs, or AoE or bolt. No conjure food, no teleport, no polymorph in sheep and so on. to those i can add the basic spells that every Wizard, that would be what? 5 more? and i get most of them long before level 20.
So, in conclusion, i particularly do not care if i do not get tons of new skills after level 20, in comparison to other games, i had the impression they were quite a bunch already, but hey! to each his own.
Have a nice day.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Thats what I was trying to say Volkmar, but you did much better explaining it then I did.
Guess this conludes this topic.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
well, i was wondering about that as well, but then i realized there is nothing stopping to bring my gnome to the NE area if i want to. The quests aren't race specific, so if you do so, you will do the NE quests as a gnome.
Same for the human starting area. It might take a while to get to the NE area (the human one, if you a gnome/dwarf, is quite easy and other way around) but at level 1 who cares if you die couple times on the road? is not that you will keep the newbie equipment long in anycase.
Have a nice day.
oh and thanks for your post
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
you played it one day and think the rewards were too good? Heck! what kind of quests were you doing in one day? My main is level 19th dwarf hunter, he has less than 1 gold piece at the moment. Money is NEVER enough as i need money to train my powers, money to buy new armor and so on. Maybe later one i will have tons of money, but considering at 40th i have to shell 100 gold out for the mount.... i do not see me being rich anytime soon.
And yes, i regularly use the Auction House.
The graphics are NOT outdated. they are stylish. Is not that blizzard art department is populated by primitives that do not know how to use a art program, they decided to stick with the Warcraft style (surprise surprise eh?). The results, in my opinion, are incredible. there is so much variety and places in this world that will let you amazed. An example about fog: always in previous MMorpg you would see buildings pop out of nowhere, fog or no fog. Here, in Darkshore, while coming from Darnassus, you will se first a light floating on nowhere... then moments later the lighthouse emerges from the gray fog.. like it actually should do!
Havea nice day.
The graphics are dated, if you can see polygons then the game graphics sucks for me in this time and period.
If you see polygons that means either your vidcard sux, your drivers are outdated or your settings are all screwed up. I had this poly problem with WoW, but after tuning up my settings and updated my vid drivers, graphics are wonderfull! I recommend the same to everrybody, if you (I dont mean specificaly you Barry) arent very computer literate, read into it a bit, it will help a lot in WoW and any other game to know your vid card and what some options do. By tweaking my vid card settings I GREATLY decreased lag in cities and my gnome has sharp lower lib no more (looked realy ugly
)
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
sure...go for it
Well - I would say that WOW is best MMORPG out there
Buy it now
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I think World Of warcraft is the best mmorpg of the moment. I was playing lineage 2 before and when I started WoW I was like OMG the same day I gave all my stuff of my lvl 50s character in lineage n canceled my account.
Im playing WoW since 2 months now *lvl35 undead mage an I can told you This game is AWSOME I really enjoy quest, raid , pvp and the game ambiance everything that was missing in other mmorpg seems to be in wow and cant wait until Battleground come out!!! Geez !!!
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