The only thing that will save this game from fading further into obscurity and infamy and its current steady decline in subscription numbers is a free trial and/or a much more reasonable client cost, getting it on Steam would also be helpful but I think that's very doubtful. This game with no free trial, an upfront cost of 50$'s for a torrent client download, a terrible reputation for poor community relations, lackluster or worse reviews, and its current state is simply not competitive, its only catering to a niece of a niece a cost commiserate with the budget independent work in progress title it actually is would make it a lot more attractive. As predicted a year after launch this is a repeat of WW2 online or any of the many other indy over hyped under delivering games of the last decade,Terrible launch in an unfinished untested state and the subsequent exodus of the majority of the community have dealt a mortal blow that very few games recover from, Darkfall can struggle on and probably will for years due to the relatively lower costs in Greece and the total investment made with around 10k subscribers but will never grow substantially best case scenario is stagnation. A waste considering the potential for a game of this type and a sad joke considering the expectations of the believers and the proclamations of the developers over its decade long gestation and then abortion. I was finally thinking of actually trying the game again to see how much it had improved or not, and there was obviously a lot of room for improvement but when I saw Eve Online for a few dollars on steam a few weeks ago offering the opportunity to return to the game again after many years the choice was obvious. I don't think there will be an international free trial because the game only appeals to a few thousand people, the developers know this and this is why they have kept the game secret for so many years and constantly lied about its true state of development, did a closed beta, only lifted the NDA shortly before release, and offered preorders, and are still asking 50$'s for the game. The reason why they are offering a free trial only in Greece is because the domestic market is much less competitive and standards are lower, internationally Darkfall is minnow but in Greece its the only fish in the pond. Darkfall could very well enjoy the same levels of success as Turkeys domestic smash hit sensation Knight Online, hopefully these two impressive tittles will continue to thrive and provide encouragement to all aspiring first time developers of those country's.
I play game because is good and because I like it, not because it is cheaper.
The problem with a free trial is that it would fuck the economy to hell. Everyone would take advantage of it. I would have 4 alts running around harvesting at all times if I could and so would the whole server. There is no way to control this free trial unless they set up some trial island or trial server.
True. And what other new games offer a free trial besides Free ones, I cant think of a new mmo that offered a trial. Do they not always come after years of release? Why should DF do this if its not the norm. I have never played a free trial that I liked because they are ussually all for games I had originally passed on and didnt have much interest in to begin with. If I have an interest in the game to begin with I can ussually manage to extract my money's worth of entertainment from it.
The problem with a free trial is that it would fuck the economy to hell. Everyone would take advantage of it. I would have 4 alts running around harvesting at all times if I could and so would the whole server. There is no way to control this free trial unless they set up some trial island or trial server.
True. And what other new games offer a free trial besides Free ones, I cant think of a new mmo that offered a trial. Do they not always come after years of release? Why should DF do this if its not the norm. I have never played a free trial that I liked because they are ussually all for games I had originally passed on and didnt have much interest in to begin with. If I have an interest in the game to begin with I can ussually manage to extract my money's worth of entertainment from it.
Just a few points on this.
First of all, it was Aventurine themselves who said there would be a free trial for DarkFall from the very beginning. They themselves started that line of "hype". It has never been communicated by them why the Free Trial was scrapped.
Secondly, DarkFall is soon approaching the 1 year mark. Not exactly "new" anymore.
As for other MMOs and when they offered Free Trials...
WoW released 11/23/2004 ... had 2 million subs by 6/15/2005 ... Public Test Server by 6/27/2005
So, even WoW with it's millions of subs started actively pushing Free Trials at the 1.5 year mark. As I've shown below... MMOs usually come out with their Free Trials BEFORE that time-frame. DarkFall is behind the curve on this one.
The majority of MMOs come out with a Free Trial BEFORE the 1-year mark. DarkFall is unique in that it's developers openly talked about offering a Free Trial at release. Sadly that never happened.
The only thing that will save this game from fading further into obscurity and infamy and its current steady decline in subscription numbers is a free trial and/or a much more reasonable client cost, getting it on Steam would also be helpful but I think that's very doubtful.
Currently, DarkFall is not "declining" in terms of subs. Instead, it's going up and there's a thread in the Guild section to prove this (though it did go down during Christmas break)
Wow Polar, all this interest in the game for so long, and just when you're considering returning an Eve sale sways your interest. I'm never going shopping with you.
You have made your point more than clear. And I agree the time has passed where AV can ignore a real free trial.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
They could make the free trial players restricted to a free trial server. How would that mess up the economy of Darkfall?
Yup, lots of ways they could do it.
Every other MMO (including those with FFA PvP) has figured out a way to offer a Free Trial.
My biggest gripe with those that are AGAINST Aventurine offering a Free Trial is...
Where was your complaint against a Free Trial before Release?
Find me even one post of a person who was against the idea of a Free Trial for DarkFall before they released the game. It doesn't exist. In fact, there was very heated defense of Aventurine for the very fact they were offering a Free Trial from the very beginning.
There was a lot of talk about DarkFall offering a Free Trial at Release. There was ZERO negative talk about that feature.
When it was raised by some of us that Aventurine may scrap that idea there were some very vigorous defenders (some of whom are still here) who said they would never do that.
Surprise, they did it.
Now all of a sudden it's a good idea that they DON'T have a Free Trial?
They could make the free trial players restricted to a free trial server. How would that mess up the economy of Darkfall?
What economy?
Goods worth millions of gold change owner on daily basis. Just because the transactions aren't offline and carebear doesn't mean there are not existant.
Every deal is like the miami sun ray motel deal of scarface tony montana and manny ray with that culumbian dealer hector. It require something big in the pants.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by kcc9889 The problem with a free trial is that it would fuck the economy to hell. Everyone would take advantage of it. I would have 4 alts running around harvesting at all times if I could and so would the whole server. There is no way to control this free trial unless they set up some trial island or trial server.
They could set a cap for certain skills i'd say. For example 25 on harvesting ones and 50 on combat. Mining with 25 in mining... well, I doubt it'd the funniest thing in the world for veterans.
All those idiots liking to try new games not having a single idea what those games are about would be a different and possibly much sadder story though... But EVE can handle them and DF would be able to handle them as well.
Why would DF's economy be different then EvE's as an example? Both are subject to "trial abuse" and I am sure DF could implement some form of skill cap/limitation for trials much like EvE makes some skills only available to full accounts. The skill cap could minimize a trials potential impact. That said, AV seems to be trying to improve the game via some large patches and the recent thread about art updates. Why offer a free trial and risk a potential customer walking away with a bad taste over things you have fairly immediate plans to change? If they walk away, they might not come back whereas, if the company waits a bit longer, that potential customer might still be open to trying the game out and, presumably, there is a better chance of retaining that customer. As another thought, the fact they offer free trials in one region already seems to indicate it is doable without destroying the game for paying customers.
Because almost all materials and reagents are readily available to players from day 1. The disparity in what a high level and low level skill player can take in isn't particularly large.
Now compare it to Eve...where the most valuable resources are unavailable without specialized training. And the disparity in ore/hour is significant depending upon skills (including what ship your capable of flying).
To be fair, many resources seem over-inflated on prices in Darkfall. And trials would no doubt bring those prices down as supply went up. As a noob, thats not something I'm particarly excited about that... I like my fat bag of gold for harvesting. But I'm sure the vets would dig it.
Why would DF's economy be different then EvE's as an example? Both are subject to "trial abuse" and I am sure DF could implement some form of skill cap/limitation for trials much like EvE makes some skills only available to full accounts. The skill cap could minimize a trials potential impact. That said, AV seems to be trying to improve the game via some large patches and the recent thread about art updates. Why offer a free trial and risk a potential customer walking away with a bad taste over things you have fairly immediate plans to change? If they walk away, they might not come back whereas, if the company waits a bit longer, that potential customer might still be open to trying the game out and, presumably, there is a better chance of retaining that customer. As another thought, the fact they offer free trials in one region already seems to indicate it is doable without destroying the game for paying customers.
Because almost all materials and reagents are readily available to players from day 1. The disparity in what a high level and low level skill player can take in isn't particularly large.
Now compare it to Eve...where the most valuable resources are unavailable without specialized training. And the disparity in ore/hour is significant depending upon skills (including what ship your capable of flying).
To be fair, many resources seem over-inflated on prices in Darkfall. And trials would no doubt bring those prices down as supply went up. As a noob, thats not something I'm particarly excited about that... I like my fat bag of gold for harvesting. But I'm sure the vets would dig it.
As far as the "readily available to players from day 1", I believe the comment about a skill cap or similar limitation addresses this. I mean, if you say a trial account can only harvest 'x' amount or have 'x' level of harvesting max, then the issue isn't there. Ultimately, trials have the potential to affect any game's economy. Some, the affect would be more noticable then others, but really, in a game where you can take out other players, I'm pretty sure the player base could self-regulate the impact of the trials.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I have been playing the game for a month now and have been enjoying it. I will say however that the stat grind is starting to kill the experience for me personally. I think the skills lvl at a decent pace, but the stats are just going nowhere for me. I really think to draw in and keep new and current subscribers the stat gains are going to have to be changed.
I have been playing the game for a month now and have been enjoying it. I will say however that the stat grind is starting to kill the experience for me personally. I think the skills lvl at a decent pace, but the stats are just going nowhere for me. I really think to draw in and keep new and current subscribers the stat gains are going to have to be changed.
Stop trying to grind stats? Just level skills and the stats will come.
Why would DF's economy be different then EvE's as an example? Both are subject to "trial abuse" and I am sure DF could implement some form of skill cap/limitation for trials much like EvE makes some skills only available to full accounts. The skill cap could minimize a trials potential impact. That said, AV seems to be trying to improve the game via some large patches and the recent thread about art updates. Why offer a free trial and risk a potential customer walking away with a bad taste over things you have fairly immediate plans to change? If they walk away, they might not come back whereas, if the company waits a bit longer, that potential customer might still be open to trying the game out and, presumably, there is a better chance of retaining that customer. As another thought, the fact they offer free trials in one region already seems to indicate it is doable without destroying the game for paying customers.
Because almost all materials and reagents are readily available to players from day 1. The disparity in what a high level and low level skill player can take in isn't particularly large.
Now compare it to Eve...where the most valuable resources are unavailable without specialized training. And the disparity in ore/hour is significant depending upon skills (including what ship your capable of flying).
To be fair, many resources seem over-inflated on prices in Darkfall. And trials would no doubt bring those prices down as supply went up. As a noob, thats not something I'm particarly excited about that... I like my fat bag of gold for harvesting. But I'm sure the vets would dig it.
As far as the "readily available to players from day 1", I believe the comment about a skill cap or similar limitation addresses this. I mean, if you say a trial account can only harvest 'x' amount or have 'x' level of harvesting max, then the issue isn't there. Ultimately, trials have the potential to affect any game's economy. Some, the affect would be more noticable then others, but really, in a game where you can take out other players, I'm pretty sure the player base could self-regulate the impact of the trials.
Skill cap would be irrelevant. You can mine, log, fish, etc at 1.0 skill. A limit on harvesting wouldn't fix anything, people would just cycle new trial accounts when they hit their "cap". And the active player-base would be the ones abusing the system in the first place by running multiple clients.
You could eliminate the harvesting of materials all together for trial accounts, but thats not a particularly good system when your trying to show off a game to a new player. Harvesting and crafting are pretty integral to the DF experience.
I have been playing the game for a month now and have been enjoying it. I will say however that the stat grind is starting to kill the experience for me personally. I think the skills lvl at a decent pace, but the stats are just going nowhere for me. I really think to draw in and keep new and current subscribers the stat gains are going to have to be changed.
Stop trying to grind stats? Just level skills and the stats will come.
I have never actively grinded stats. Thats why I am saying the stat gains are way to slow. I have been playing a month and my stats have barely even moved. The rate they are rising now they might be decent for pvp in about a year lol. I will add, I don't play religously or anything. I only play a few hours a day, some days only a couple.
Skill cap would be irrelevant. You can mine, log, fish, etc at 1.0 skill. A limit on harvesting wouldn't fix anything, people would just cycle new trial accounts when they hit their "cap". And the active player-base would be the ones abusing the system in the first place by running multiple clients. You could eliminate the harvesting of materials all together for trial accounts, but thats not a particularly good system when your trying to show off a game to a new player. Harvesting and crafting are pretty integral to the DF experience.
I understand where you are coming from, but once again, I just can't comprehend how this would be different then other games that have player driven economies. I used EvE as my reference point since that is what I've played the most. As a trial, I can access a majority of the ores available either through highsec belts or mission belts that might contain lower sec ores. I could even take my new pilot to low sec for the higher end ores. The amount I could haul wouldn't be significant, but if this is a trial for an active account, as you claim would be the case for abuse in DF, I would just have my main haul the ore which would make capacity irrelevant right? So, with that in mind, EvE's economy should be completely shot since they allow trials right?
It just seems a lot of people are spending effort discussing how trials wouldn't work rather then figuring how they could. I personally don't like the "trial island" approach so that is why I am more intrigued at how this could work in general population. I also think general population gives a better impression of the game for a trial user. So, that's where I am coming from if it helps explain my point of view.
edit: just to add, a trial island does work in Ryzom, though I think the crowd playing that game is of a bit different mindset. maybe it would be the best approach for DF. Either way, it's my opinion that a trial would be a positive.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I understand where you are coming from, but once again, I just can't comprehend how this would be different then other games that have player driven economies. I used EvE as my reference point since that is what I've played the most. As a trial, I can access a majority of the ores available either through highsec belts or mission belts that might contain lower sec ores. I could even take my new pilot to low sec for the higher end ores. The amount I could haul wouldn't be significant, but if this is a trial for an active account, as you claim would be the case for abuse in DF, I would just have my main haul the ore which would make capacity irrelevant right? So, with that in mind, EvE's economy should be completely shot since they allow trials right? It just seems a lot of people are spending effort discussing how trials wouldn't work rather then figuring how they could. I personally don't like the "trial island" approach so that is why I am more intrigued at how this could work in general population. I also think general population gives a better impression of the game for a trial user. So, that's where I am coming from if it helps explain my point of view. edit: just to add, a trial island does work in Ryzom, though I think the crowd playing that game is of a bit different mindset. maybe it would be the best approach for DF. Either way, it's my opinion that a trial would be a positive.
Eve's economic model is massive compared to Darkfall(or any other game). Think of it like throwing a stone into the lake, as opposed to throwing a stone into a puddle.
Also the actual rate you yield ore is very limited for a new pilot in Eve(by skills, ship, mining laser fits, rigs, etc), regardless of if you have someone hauling for you. This is mirrored in Darkfall via mastery skills, but nowhere near to the same extent.
Trials would work, but they couldn't be free range trials. They would need to be some sort of limited buddy program... ala you get one buddy key every few months to hand out to a friend who then gets a 2 week trial. You could even attach a bonus(a free month) if your "buddy" signs up for a subscription. I think that would go a long way towards increasing the player population as opposed to a bunch of random folks just trying the game and then writing scathing reviews when they get ganked and lose all their newbie armor.
And I'm not for a "trial island" at all. Talk about a bait and switch. I can already hear people howling.
Eve's economic model is massive compared to Darkfall(or any other game). Think of it like throwing a stone into the lake, as opposed to throwing a stone into a puddle. Also the actual rate you yield ore is very limited for a new pilot in Eve(by skills, ship, mining laser fits, rigs, etc), regardless of if you have someone hauling for you. This is mirrored in Darkfall via mastery skills, but nowhere near to the same extent. Trials would work, but they couldn't be free range trials. They would need to be some sort of limited buddy program... ala you get one buddy key every few months to hand out to a friend who then gets a 2 week trial. You could even attach a bonus(a free month) if your "buddy" signs up for a subscription. I think that would go a long way towards increasing the player population as opposed to a bunch of random folks just trying the game and then writing scathing reviews when they get ganked and lose all their newbie armor. And I'm not for a "trial island" at all. Talk about a bait and switch. I can already hear people howling.
That's a good point about economic scale and certainly makes sense. I agree a buddy pass program, much like the 21-day version trial for Eve, would work. I mean, those are limited to 3 per month and have a reward for converting trials so it sounds pretty similar to what you are talking about. As far as mining throughput, I was merely addressing accessibility which is what I thought you were speaking about. I figured DF had some level of throttling based on skill and it seems your comments elude to that. I don't see throughput as a real issue though since, as you said, an existing player could just cycle trial accounts. I mean, for the sake of example, 4 trial accounts mining under protection of a vet account could match the throughput of one non-trial account right (numbers aren't intended to be exact, just illustration)?
The trial island comment was just continuing my line of thinking about how trials can work and what has been discussed in various threads (and i believe mentioned in this one) and not specifically to you. People keep coming back to the trial island concept which I think would not provide an accurate experience (aside from the mechanics). Since I mentioned that a lot of people are more wrapped up in why a trial would not work, I felt it pertinent to mention views on other variations on the trial theme. Sorry if it came off as a bait and switch though.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
The population is going up and there are so much players a server can host, we don't need more lag for the subscribers.
The newby cities are full of noobs like never before, it looks like when the game was released, and at that time there was only a server.
This game can only get better and if they can fix the economy, this will become a cult game.
It absolutely needs a free trial. A game with no presence in the mainstream, no boxed version, a full $50 to play for the first time, with an extremely harsh death penalty doesn't need a trial?
How many people are going to try a game with a terrible launch and $50 download without trying?
There is no way to offer a trial at this time maybe 6-12 months they can offer something maybe a seprate server or something but it will not have at all the experince you get from playing the main one.
AV need to follow in CCPs footsteps to some degree and just soldier on with thier idea of the game they want to play, do that and there'll be more subs. I'm pretty sure we'll see free trials this year, since they're doing it in Greece along with boxed copies of the game.
This. If they try and please everybody, they'll just end up with a mediocrity. As soon as AV offer a free trial, I'm going to take a look at DF, but even if it doesn't click for me personally, I very much hope that it continues to grow and develop, but stay true to the original vision.
Comments
I play game because is good and because I like it, not because it is cheaper.
True. And what other new games offer a free trial besides Free ones, I cant think of a new mmo that offered a trial. Do they not always come after years of release? Why should DF do this if its not the norm. I have never played a free trial that I liked because they are ussually all for games I had originally passed on and didnt have much interest in to begin with. If I have an interest in the game to begin with I can ussually manage to extract my money's worth of entertainment from it.
That is a hilarious and spot on statement ........
~Hairysun~
http://www.straightdope.com/
True. And what other new games offer a free trial besides Free ones, I cant think of a new mmo that offered a trial. Do they not always come after years of release? Why should DF do this if its not the norm. I have never played a free trial that I liked because they are ussually all for games I had originally passed on and didnt have much interest in to begin with. If I have an interest in the game to begin with I can ussually manage to extract my money's worth of entertainment from it.
Just a few points on this.
First of all, it was Aventurine themselves who said there would be a free trial for DarkFall from the very beginning. They themselves started that line of "hype". It has never been communicated by them why the Free Trial was scrapped.
Secondly, DarkFall is soon approaching the 1 year mark. Not exactly "new" anymore.
As for other MMOs and when they offered Free Trials...
WoW released 11/23/2004 ... had 2 million subs by 6/15/2005 ... Public Test Server by 6/27/2005
www.worldofwarcraft.com/news/wow-news-06-2005.html
Released their "Recruit-a-Friend" Program on 5/24/2006
www.worldofwarcraft.com/news/wow-news-05-2006.html
So, even WoW with it's millions of subs started actively pushing Free Trials at the 1.5 year mark. As I've shown below... MMOs usually come out with their Free Trials BEFORE that time-frame. DarkFall is behind the curve on this one.
AOC:
Release: 5/20/2008
Free Trial available: 4/2/2009
www.funcom.com/wsp/funcom/frontend.cgi
WAR:
Realease: 9/18/2008
Free Trial available: 3/5/2009
www.warhammeronline.com/pressreleases/20090305.php
LoTRo:
Release 4/24/2007
Free Trial available: 8/29/2007
www.turbine.com/news/5-press/34-turbine-launches-7-day-free-trial-program-for-the-hottest-mmo-of-the-year.html
The majority of MMOs come out with a Free Trial BEFORE the 1-year mark. DarkFall is unique in that it's developers openly talked about offering a Free Trial at release. Sadly that never happened.
They could make the free trial players restricted to a free trial server. How would that mess up the economy of Darkfall?
Currently, DarkFall is not "declining" in terms of subs. Instead, it's going up and there's a thread in the Guild section to prove this (though it did go down during Christmas break)
Wow Polar, all this interest in the game for so long, and just when you're considering returning an Eve sale sways your interest. I'm never going shopping with you.
@xzyax
You have made your point more than clear. And I agree the time has passed where AV can ignore a real free trial.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Yup, lots of ways they could do it.
Every other MMO (including those with FFA PvP) has figured out a way to offer a Free Trial.
My biggest gripe with those that are AGAINST Aventurine offering a Free Trial is...
Where was your complaint against a Free Trial before Release?
Find me even one post of a person who was against the idea of a Free Trial for DarkFall before they released the game. It doesn't exist. In fact, there was very heated defense of Aventurine for the very fact they were offering a Free Trial from the very beginning.
There was a lot of talk about DarkFall offering a Free Trial at Release. There was ZERO negative talk about that feature.
When it was raised by some of us that Aventurine may scrap that idea there were some very vigorous defenders (some of whom are still here) who said they would never do that.
Surprise, they did it.
Now all of a sudden it's a good idea that they DON'T have a Free Trial?
Umm... flip-flop much?
That is the part that chafes me.
What economy?
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
What economy?
Goods worth millions of gold change owner on daily basis. Just because the transactions aren't offline and carebear doesn't mean there are not existant.
Every deal is like the miami sun ray motel deal of scarface tony montana and manny ray with that culumbian dealer hector. It require something big in the pants.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
They could set a cap for certain skills i'd say. For example 25 on harvesting ones and 50 on combat. Mining with 25 in mining... well, I doubt it'd the funniest thing in the world for veterans.
All those idiots liking to try new games not having a single idea what those games are about would be a different and possibly much sadder story though... But EVE can handle them and DF would be able to handle them as well.
Because almost all materials and reagents are readily available to players from day 1. The disparity in what a high level and low level skill player can take in isn't particularly large.
Now compare it to Eve...where the most valuable resources are unavailable without specialized training. And the disparity in ore/hour is significant depending upon skills (including what ship your capable of flying).
To be fair, many resources seem over-inflated on prices in Darkfall. And trials would no doubt bring those prices down as supply went up. As a noob, thats not something I'm particarly excited about that... I like my fat bag of gold for harvesting. But I'm sure the vets would dig it.
test
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Because almost all materials and reagents are readily available to players from day 1. The disparity in what a high level and low level skill player can take in isn't particularly large.
Now compare it to Eve...where the most valuable resources are unavailable without specialized training. And the disparity in ore/hour is significant depending upon skills (including what ship your capable of flying).
To be fair, many resources seem over-inflated on prices in Darkfall. And trials would no doubt bring those prices down as supply went up. As a noob, thats not something I'm particarly excited about that... I like my fat bag of gold for harvesting. But I'm sure the vets would dig it.
As far as the "readily available to players from day 1", I believe the comment about a skill cap or similar limitation addresses this. I mean, if you say a trial account can only harvest 'x' amount or have 'x' level of harvesting max, then the issue isn't there. Ultimately, trials have the potential to affect any game's economy. Some, the affect would be more noticable then others, but really, in a game where you can take out other players, I'm pretty sure the player base could self-regulate the impact of the trials.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I have been playing the game for a month now and have been enjoying it. I will say however that the stat grind is starting to kill the experience for me personally. I think the skills lvl at a decent pace, but the stats are just going nowhere for me. I really think to draw in and keep new and current subscribers the stat gains are going to have to be changed.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Stop trying to grind stats? Just level skills and the stats will come.
Because almost all materials and reagents are readily available to players from day 1. The disparity in what a high level and low level skill player can take in isn't particularly large.
Now compare it to Eve...where the most valuable resources are unavailable without specialized training. And the disparity in ore/hour is significant depending upon skills (including what ship your capable of flying).
To be fair, many resources seem over-inflated on prices in Darkfall. And trials would no doubt bring those prices down as supply went up. As a noob, thats not something I'm particarly excited about that... I like my fat bag of gold for harvesting. But I'm sure the vets would dig it.
As far as the "readily available to players from day 1", I believe the comment about a skill cap or similar limitation addresses this. I mean, if you say a trial account can only harvest 'x' amount or have 'x' level of harvesting max, then the issue isn't there. Ultimately, trials have the potential to affect any game's economy. Some, the affect would be more noticable then others, but really, in a game where you can take out other players, I'm pretty sure the player base could self-regulate the impact of the trials.
Skill cap would be irrelevant. You can mine, log, fish, etc at 1.0 skill. A limit on harvesting wouldn't fix anything, people would just cycle new trial accounts when they hit their "cap". And the active player-base would be the ones abusing the system in the first place by running multiple clients.
You could eliminate the harvesting of materials all together for trial accounts, but thats not a particularly good system when your trying to show off a game to a new player. Harvesting and crafting are pretty integral to the DF experience.
Darkfall don't need a free trial
The population is going up and there are so much players a server can host, we don't need more lag for the subscribers.
The newby cities are full of noobs like never before, it looks like when the game was released, and at that time there was only a server.
This game can only get better and if they can fix the economy, this will become a cult game.
Stop trying to grind stats? Just level skills and the stats will come.
I have never actively grinded stats. Thats why I am saying the stat gains are way to slow. I have been playing a month and my stats have barely even moved. The rate they are rising now they might be decent for pvp in about a year lol. I will add, I don't play religously or anything. I only play a few hours a day, some days only a couple.
No signature, I don't have a pen
I understand where you are coming from, but once again, I just can't comprehend how this would be different then other games that have player driven economies. I used EvE as my reference point since that is what I've played the most. As a trial, I can access a majority of the ores available either through highsec belts or mission belts that might contain lower sec ores. I could even take my new pilot to low sec for the higher end ores. The amount I could haul wouldn't be significant, but if this is a trial for an active account, as you claim would be the case for abuse in DF, I would just have my main haul the ore which would make capacity irrelevant right? So, with that in mind, EvE's economy should be completely shot since they allow trials right?
It just seems a lot of people are spending effort discussing how trials wouldn't work rather then figuring how they could. I personally don't like the "trial island" approach so that is why I am more intrigued at how this could work in general population. I also think general population gives a better impression of the game for a trial user. So, that's where I am coming from if it helps explain my point of view.
edit: just to add, a trial island does work in Ryzom, though I think the crowd playing that game is of a bit different mindset. maybe it would be the best approach for DF. Either way, it's my opinion that a trial would be a positive.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Eve's economic model is massive compared to Darkfall(or any other game). Think of it like throwing a stone into the lake, as opposed to throwing a stone into a puddle.
Also the actual rate you yield ore is very limited for a new pilot in Eve(by skills, ship, mining laser fits, rigs, etc), regardless of if you have someone hauling for you. This is mirrored in Darkfall via mastery skills, but nowhere near to the same extent.
Trials would work, but they couldn't be free range trials. They would need to be some sort of limited buddy program... ala you get one buddy key every few months to hand out to a friend who then gets a 2 week trial. You could even attach a bonus(a free month) if your "buddy" signs up for a subscription. I think that would go a long way towards increasing the player population as opposed to a bunch of random folks just trying the game and then writing scathing reviews when they get ganked and lose all their newbie armor.
And I'm not for a "trial island" at all. Talk about a bait and switch. I can already hear people howling.
That's a good point about economic scale and certainly makes sense. I agree a buddy pass program, much like the 21-day version trial for Eve, would work. I mean, those are limited to 3 per month and have a reward for converting trials so it sounds pretty similar to what you are talking about. As far as mining throughput, I was merely addressing accessibility which is what I thought you were speaking about. I figured DF had some level of throttling based on skill and it seems your comments elude to that. I don't see throughput as a real issue though since, as you said, an existing player could just cycle trial accounts. I mean, for the sake of example, 4 trial accounts mining under protection of a vet account could match the throughput of one non-trial account right (numbers aren't intended to be exact, just illustration)?
The trial island comment was just continuing my line of thinking about how trials can work and what has been discussed in various threads (and i believe mentioned in this one) and not specifically to you. People keep coming back to the trial island concept which I think would not provide an accurate experience (aside from the mechanics). Since I mentioned that a lot of people are more wrapped up in why a trial would not work, I felt it pertinent to mention views on other variations on the trial theme. Sorry if it came off as a bait and switch though.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
It absolutely needs a free trial. A game with no presence in the mainstream, no boxed version, a full $50 to play for the first time, with an extremely harsh death penalty doesn't need a trial?
How many people are going to try a game with a terrible launch and $50 download without trying?
There is no way to offer a trial at this time maybe 6-12 months they can offer something maybe a seprate server or something but it will not have at all the experince you get from playing the main one.
SNIP
This. If they try and please everybody, they'll just end up with a mediocrity. As soon as AV offer a free trial, I'm going to take a look at DF, but even if it doesn't click for me personally, I very much hope that it continues to grow and develop, but stay true to the original vision.
Give me liberty or give me lasers