So far in EVERY SINGLE PvP, it's whoever zergs wins.
Aion: zerg fest
Lineage 2: OMFG HUGE ZERG FEST
Warhammer Online: Moar zerging
StarCraft: ....nope, not zerging.
I want a game to be about skill, not about who has the most e-buddies.
Well thats fine then, its just then does that justifie it being a mmo with a monthly fee? Most would argue no, that if your gonna pay for a MMOFPS that largescale is something expect, its essentially what your paying for.
Honestly, $14.99 a month is less than 30 minutes of work for me. I could care less.
I'm not exactly sure what we're paying for (as I haven't done my research) but if this game has the polish that TF2 does, and has statistics, events, and updates more frequently...hell, that's worth it. Just because $14.99 means a world full of Elves and 2000 ppl on at once doesn't mean somebody can't try something new.
You could argue that EVERY game is a rip off except EvE-Online because last I played that, there were 50k players online at once...tell me what other game lets 50k players on ONE server.
well first its 12 if i remember correctly. But unlike some i actually care about the principle of it. If im going to pay monthly for a game thats not "Massive" yes still totes the term MMO then im a little put off.
I personally dont like this theme all these games are coming up with this these small groups of people, its the same deal with WoW arenas, why play a game full of people which is suppose to be a Social gaming experience when your only going to play with 2-3 other people? Would it not seem a bit pointless that your essentially paying to be n a large group of people on a single server essentially a community yet ignore all of them.
Why play a MMO if your only gonna play with a few others? Thats why Planetside always comes up, Everyone who loved planetside loved it because it was a different and was the only MMOFPS and on top of that was on a large scale, which made it great, you clearly saw what you where paying for, which was something to house these epic fight of large scales.
Some may make the claim of zerging, well then maybe MMO's arnt up your ally then, cause yes numbers whole a large part of it, but controling the zerg always holds victory. I know anyone whos played planetside knows that numbers alone never let you win and thats the buety of the MMOFPS it wasnt just numbers, because skilled played a much larger part and so did stratagy.
Now keep in mind what im saying im just speeking in general of what including myself asked how this sizes up to planetside.
I havnt tried the game yet is still interested in it because it reminds me of TF2 im just making the arguement on a overall view not just this specific game.
On the MMO argument, where do the devs call it a mmo? They say its hard to actually put it in a genre because of all the stuff thats there. I havent seen anything on their site saying "Global Agenda is an mmorpg".
On the MMO argument, where do the devs call it a mmo? They say its hard to actually put it in a genre because of all the stuff thats there. I havent seen anything on their site saying "Global Agenda is an mmorpg".
Bottom of the main page
"Massively Multiplayer Action, Player Driver world" took me about 5 secs to find that
Hmmmm. One thing I do want to ask the people that don't think it's an MMO is why?
From the way it sounds i wouldnt consider it a MMO.
1- There is a no payment option that still allows you to play with people, this reminds me alot of say Phantasy Star in a sense, if you dont pay you can still play with each other and do the same thing and if you do, you had more people but still had limited interaction with them, you saw them at the hub and if ya didnt run anything with them it didnt matter either, you could straight ignore the mand never run with them at all.
2- While they speak of 60 person battles(which when you first hear gets ya excited) then it goes into that they to are also instanced and have some sort of odd connection with each other with how well you do in the others. Yet you dont have Direct contact with each other. i cant say we finnished up our area and then send on over to another one.
I Think the Main thing when someone says its a MMO is a persistent world that we can interact in and arnt cut up or limited, or if we are its so such a large degree it doesnt matter. I mean Planetside had a limit of people in a area, but it was freaking huge.
Its actually really hard to describe my point. I guess the Major part of a MMO is the first M and thats massively, without the massive feeling you feel like your playing any other game with some sort of random hub.
The Massive helps make a community be it bad or good and feel like your trying to achiev some goal or compete with others in some form. And those people outside of the area you may have competed you will run into again at some point for they are working in the same world you are. In a MMO now adays its trying to keep some kind of balance of them, something you can do as a small party and something you can do as a massive party.
Also flow has alot to do with it, i dont want to feel iv just been transported to area B which looks a little different. Which is in a sort of game thats completely instance based, it has a lack of flow as i said early i can just walk around and a fight spurs up, no the fight is already set in stone and can only be X people.
As i said the point is hard to explain but i thought id atleast give a little insight into my thought.
There's a lot of information out there that you can find, maybe this post will encourage you to look into it... Some of the released information that you may be interested in relates to the persistence of the world. With Planetside, what you did didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Sure you could sanc-lock the other two empires, but overnight that effort would disappear and then you'd have to start over the next day. In GA they have publicly released information about a "campaign" style where there are specific win conditions. So in Planetside, there was no win condition, only an ever-lasting fight (unless you consider rabbit events to be a "win"). In Global Agenda your agency or alliance can be considered a winner over the span of a campaign, which the GA devs have compared to a sports season. A clear start, a definite finish and a winner declared when its all done. Do consider reading up on GA, Its A Great Game.
Just wanted to comment, that this explanation seemed a bit odd.
Namely in that it would have been easier to say GA does the same thing Planetside does, in that it eventually resets, but there's a lot more hub-ub about the results.
Which I'd actually like to note that it's not entirely true about Planetside, they actually have a full ranking and for a long time since launch actually kept track of clan rankings, player rankings, faction rankings, and they had a day to day event tracker that they used to announce winn ing factions and celebrate players with on the Planetside web portal.
So, there actually was more of a point and more of a celebration to it than just being an endless march it gets characterized as. Plus Planetside has the ability to pit up to around 300+ players against one another in an active combat format, something only one other game has come close to doing, one game has surpassed only by giving up any ability to be active in combat for the sake of server stability, and only one that's upcoming that will come close to being similar.
Hell, Planetside even has that whole 'what's going on in one battle directly affects the other and even other zones' thing pretty damn good.
GA for all extensive purposes is an arena shooter game with a 'persistent' world laid over it, which isn't persistent so much as it puts more gusto into the celebration to cover over the resets, isolated instances, etc.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
<snip> Hell, Planetside even has that whole 'what's going on in one battle directly affects the other and even other zones' thing pretty damn good.
GA for all extensive purposes is an arena shooter game with a 'persistent' world laid over it, which isn't persistent so much as it puts more gusto into the celebration to cover over the resets, isolated instances, etc.
I think you're mistaken here Deivos. From what I understand you can be conducting a base raid, which will be split into multiple hexes (or instances). So, as an example, if the group in hex 1 disables the shields, it could allow the group in hex 2 to enter the control tower. I know I've read this somewhere on their site, though not using those exact terms... I'll see if I can find the link later on. Really gotta get back to work.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem. -Glen Cook
Hmmmm. One thing I do want to ask the people that don't think it's an MMO is why?
From the way it sounds i wouldnt consider it a MMO.
1- There is a no payment option that still allows you to play with people, this reminds me alot of say Phantasy Star in a sense, if you dont pay you can still play with each other and do the same thing and if you do, you had more people but still had limited interaction with them, you saw them at the hub and if ya didnt run anything with them it didnt matter either, you could straight ignore the mand never run with them at all.
2- While they speak of 60 person battles(which when you first hear gets ya excited) then it goes into that they to are also instanced and have some sort of odd connection with each other with how well you do in the others. Yet you dont have Direct contact with each other. i cant say we finnished up our area and then send on over to another one.
I Think the Main thing when someone says its a MMO is a persistent world that we can interact in and arnt cut up or limited, or if we are its so such a large degree it doesnt matter. I mean Planetside had a limit of people in a area, but it was freaking huge.
Its actually really hard to describe my point. I guess the Major part of a MMO is the first M and thats massively, without the massive feeling you feel like your playing any other game with some sort of random hub.
The Massive helps make a community be it bad or good and feel like your trying to achiev some goal or compete with others in some form. And those people outside of the area you may have competed you will run into again at some point for they are working in the same world you are. In a MMO now adays its trying to keep some kind of balance of them, something you can do as a small party and something you can do as a massive party.
Also flow has alot to do with it, i dont want to feel iv just been transported to area B which looks a little different. Which is in a sort of game thats completely instance based, it has a lack of flow as i said early i can just walk around and a fight spurs up, no the fight is already set in stone and can only be X people.
As i said the point is hard to explain but i thought id atleast give a little insight into my thought.
I definitely agree with what you're saying. I definitely do. But I do have a question too. It's not really that solid or anything, but it's a thought. What about regular "MMOs" that are considered what I just said. I made an arguement that someone wasn't able to respond to and left it go that, look at WoW. You can say that game is instanced in itself, not really "playing" with other people. Of course, you got the occasional raid on a major city or world boss or something, but you have instanced raids, instanced PvP (BGs, Arena, etc.) just like this game. You can kind of look at the "major city" as a "virtual chat room". That's excluding the PvE of leveling and all, mostly talking about end-game. A lot of MMOs have taken this route too, which makes myself at least wonder why this game can't be considered an "MMO" since it's pretty much just like the others.
Just a thought for criticism, offering a bit of insight into mine.
I do understand what you mean with flow too. I will agree with you definitely there on that fact.
<snip> Hell, Planetside even has that whole 'what's going on in one battle directly affects the other and even other zones' thing pretty damn good.
GA for all extensive purposes is an arena shooter game with a 'persistent' world laid over it, which isn't persistent so much as it puts more gusto into the celebration to cover over the resets, isolated instances, etc.
I think you're mistaken here Deivos. From what I understand you can be conducting a base raid, which will be split into multiple hexes (or instances). So, as an example, if the group in hex 1 disables the shields, it could allow the group in hex 2 to enter the control tower. I know I've read this somewhere on their site, though not using those exact terms... I'll see if I can find the link later on. Really gotta get back to work.
...Ye do realize that point doesn't actually affect anything I said in any way?
"Namely in that it would have been easier to say GA does the same thing Planetside does, in that it eventually resets, but there's a lot more hub-ub about the results." Is what I said, I never mentioned the impact what one group of 10 v 10 can do to another 10 v 10 group during an AvA (which is about the only place you'll see that kind of thing happening, mind you). However, that impact is still limited to that joint play session and is wiped clean post match/celebration, which is the point I was commenting on.
EDIT: To put it in clearer terms, GA is persistent, yes, but no more so than Planetside, and in many ways it's only barely building on what Planetside was capable of by integrating the ranking and celebratory effects directly into the game rather than just through a web portal.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
<snip> Hell, Planetside even has that whole 'what's going on in one battle directly affects the other and even other zones' thing pretty damn good.
...Ye do realize that point doesn't actually affect anything I said in any way?
"Namely in that it would have been easier to say GA does the same thing Planetside does, in that it eventually resets, but there's a lot more hub-ub about the results." Is what I said, I never mentioned the impact what one group of 10 v 10 can do to another 10 v 10 group during an AvA (which is about the only place you'll see that kind of thing happening, mind you). However, that impact is still limited to that joint play session and is wiped clean post match/celebration, which is the point I was commenting on.
EDIT: To put it in clearer terms, GA is persistent, yes, but no more so than Planetside, and in many ways it's only barely building on what Planetside was capable of by integrating the ranking and celebratory effects directly into the game rather than just through a web portal.
Gotcha. My misunderstanding. I thought you were hung up more on what you had said earlier...
'what's going on in one battle directly affects the other and even other zones'
I was just trying to say that this does happen in AvA, though I'm not sure how long-lasting the effects are.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem. -Glen Cook
I do like Planetside's persistant world with massive battles. However, Global Agenda had some good things about it to. The game reminds me of TF2 with the balance, healing, tanks absorbing damage, and defense buliding.
It will be interesting to see how they expand upon it and how AvA works though (since I never tried that). It will be a good stop in waiting for Planetside 2 because in it's current state is a blast.
Hmmmm. One thing I do want to ask the people that don't think it's an MMO is why?
From the way it sounds i wouldnt consider it a MMO.
1- There is a no payment option that still allows you to play with people, this reminds me alot of say Phantasy Star in a sense, if you dont pay you can still play with each other and do the same thing and if you do, you had more people but still had limited interaction with them, you saw them at the hub and if ya didnt run anything with them it didnt matter either, you could straight ignore the mand never run with them at all.
2- While they speak of 60 person battles(which when you first hear gets ya excited) then it goes into that they to are also instanced and have some sort of odd connection with each other with how well you do in the others. Yet you dont have Direct contact with each other. i cant say we finnished up our area and then send on over to another one.
I Think the Main thing when someone says its a MMO is a persistent world that we can interact in and arnt cut up or limited, or if we are its so such a large degree it doesnt matter. I mean Planetside had a limit of people in a area, but it was freaking huge.
Its actually really hard to describe my point. I guess the Major part of a MMO is the first M and thats massively, without the massive feeling you feel like your playing any other game with some sort of random hub.
The Massive helps make a community be it bad or good and feel like your trying to achiev some goal or compete with others in some form. And those people outside of the area you may have competed you will run into again at some point for they are working in the same world you are. In a MMO now adays its trying to keep some kind of balance of them, something you can do as a small party and something you can do as a massive party.
Also flow has alot to do with it, i dont want to feel iv just been transported to area B which looks a little different. Which is in a sort of game thats completely instance based, it has a lack of flow as i said early i can just walk around and a fight spurs up, no the fight is already set in stone and can only be X people.
As i said the point is hard to explain but i thought id atleast give a little insight into my thought.
I definitely agree with what you're saying. I definitely do. But I do have a question too. It's not really that solid or anything, but it's a thought. What about regular "MMOs" that are considered what I just said. I made an arguement that someone wasn't able to respond to and left it go that, look at WoW. You can say that game is instanced in itself, not really "playing" with other people. Of course, you got the occasional raid on a major city or world boss or something, but you have instanced raids, instanced PvP (BGs, Arena, etc.) just like this game. You can kind of look at the "major city" as a "virtual chat room". That's excluding the PvE of leveling and all, mostly talking about end-game. A lot of MMOs have taken this route too, which makes myself at least wonder why this game can't be considered an "MMO" since it's pretty much just like the others.
Just a thought for criticism, offering a bit of insight into mine.
I do understand what you mean with flow too. I will agree with you definitely there on that fact.
Yeah i follow your thought, even when typing mine that was sort of the difficulty in pulling together a full thought here cause i had wow in the back of mind.
But using wow as a good basis as the Typical MMO standard il go from there, from a arguement standpoint its much easier to claim that GA isnt a MMO and argue against it.
But with your claim you somewhat clip the rest of wow and i think thats one of the Major things. Yes after a certain point in wow it is exactly as you describe, infact right now that most likely how i play with it right now when im maxed. I just go in Dal, hit the AH when i need pots, talk in trade(if i need to) get on a certain time and raid.
But while that may be what i do, i know at a single moment i can just go fly around to a certain place, on top of this the raids i do, they have a actually place in the world, its not just BAM welcome to area B. As i sorta said in my last post its the Flow, I can walk outside Dalaran go fly over to Icecrown Citadel and go, "thats ICC" and its there, it has a place in the world and i know where said place is, even when i go in with a set amount of people the world is still there and it has a place there. GA would lack this, you somewhat said so yourself but i want to make a point using my own words as its slightly different, GA way of playing would be like your in Orgrimmar with the AH and the only way out is to run a Group dungeon using he dungeon finder, or just could arena. At this point using it a little differently but if you ask me a more accurate also. You have no sense of world which is a major part of a MMO.
Also i think the term Massively is the true defining term of the genera, and this is where the gamebreaker is in this train of thought. And i would even go so far to say that you can ignore any other point i make if you simply look at this one part. The Key is massive on some sort of interacting scale, but on top of that it just doesnt have to be only massive, however it has to offer it somewhere that matter(not just a lobby or for wow in org, you have to be doing something)
Using wow as a example, you can think of 5 mans and things of that nature not so much as the end game so i wouldnt count it , they come down to the thing ya do whe nnot many are on or you dont plan to be doing anything with alot of people(which then brings the arguement of why are you playing but thats a different time). However from 5's you have 10's and 25's and used to have 40's. I doubt many would call 10 massive, however in a RPG 10 is somewhat large if ya think about it and 25 is even bigger and 40 even larger then that. But on the same note that is for a RPG and part of the Massive tage is relative to what it plans on doing. And that is part of where the issue is, for a FPS the Massive tag line is a much bigger number due to past games, if you look at COD or Battlefield they already carry large numbers, even TF2 carry larger numbers. But you can go even a step farther and look at planetside and see the number even larger.
So in short
1- Flow matters alot
2- Knowing that the thing you are doing has a place in the world you are playing and can go to said place without being instance since the world is the world
3- Massively in the MMO title is relative to what you are doing and is prob the most cared about part of the whole tag line, what exactly makes it massive? And how many people does it take to be massive with the specific genera( i would argue a FPS requires more)
See right now i would best describe the current system as a RTS campaign(im sure someone has played Dawn of War) Where you fight over territorys and each one is a battle that you must win or loose and while this goes on others are going and taking others. But if you go to Land A you cant in any way run over to land B still its over with, however winning Land A can provide a bonus to future fights.
Comments
well first its 12 if i remember correctly. But unlike some i actually care about the principle of it. If im going to pay monthly for a game thats not "Massive" yes still totes the term MMO then im a little put off.
I personally dont like this theme all these games are coming up with this these small groups of people, its the same deal with WoW arenas, why play a game full of people which is suppose to be a Social gaming experience when your only going to play with 2-3 other people? Would it not seem a bit pointless that your essentially paying to be n a large group of people on a single server essentially a community yet ignore all of them.
Why play a MMO if your only gonna play with a few others? Thats why Planetside always comes up, Everyone who loved planetside loved it because it was a different and was the only MMOFPS and on top of that was on a large scale, which made it great, you clearly saw what you where paying for, which was something to house these epic fight of large scales.
Some may make the claim of zerging, well then maybe MMO's arnt up your ally then, cause yes numbers whole a large part of it, but controling the zerg always holds victory. I know anyone whos played planetside knows that numbers alone never let you win and thats the buety of the MMOFPS it wasnt just numbers, because skilled played a much larger part and so did stratagy.
Now keep in mind what im saying im just speeking in general of what including myself asked how this sizes up to planetside.
I havnt tried the game yet is still interested in it because it reminds me of TF2 im just making the arguement on a overall view not just this specific game.
On the MMO argument, where do the devs call it a mmo? They say its hard to actually put it in a genre because of all the stuff thats there. I havent seen anything on their site saying "Global Agenda is an mmorpg".
Bottom of the main page
"Massively Multiplayer Action, Player Driver world" took me about 5 secs to find that
Hmmmm. One thing I do want to ask the people that don't think it's an MMO is why?
From the way it sounds i wouldnt consider it a MMO.
1- There is a no payment option that still allows you to play with people, this reminds me alot of say Phantasy Star in a sense, if you dont pay you can still play with each other and do the same thing and if you do, you had more people but still had limited interaction with them, you saw them at the hub and if ya didnt run anything with them it didnt matter either, you could straight ignore the mand never run with them at all.
2- While they speak of 60 person battles(which when you first hear gets ya excited) then it goes into that they to are also instanced and have some sort of odd connection with each other with how well you do in the others. Yet you dont have Direct contact with each other. i cant say we finnished up our area and then send on over to another one.
I Think the Main thing when someone says its a MMO is a persistent world that we can interact in and arnt cut up or limited, or if we are its so such a large degree it doesnt matter. I mean Planetside had a limit of people in a area, but it was freaking huge.
Its actually really hard to describe my point. I guess the Major part of a MMO is the first M and thats massively, without the massive feeling you feel like your playing any other game with some sort of random hub.
The Massive helps make a community be it bad or good and feel like your trying to achiev some goal or compete with others in some form. And those people outside of the area you may have competed you will run into again at some point for they are working in the same world you are. In a MMO now adays its trying to keep some kind of balance of them, something you can do as a small party and something you can do as a massive party.
Also flow has alot to do with it, i dont want to feel iv just been transported to area B which looks a little different. Which is in a sort of game thats completely instance based, it has a lack of flow as i said early i can just walk around and a fight spurs up, no the fight is already set in stone and can only be X people.
As i said the point is hard to explain but i thought id atleast give a little insight into my thought.
Just wanted to comment, that this explanation seemed a bit odd.
Namely in that it would have been easier to say GA does the same thing Planetside does, in that it eventually resets, but there's a lot more hub-ub about the results.
Which I'd actually like to note that it's not entirely true about Planetside, they actually have a full ranking and for a long time since launch actually kept track of clan rankings, player rankings, faction rankings, and they had a day to day event tracker that they used to announce winn ing factions and celebrate players with on the Planetside web portal.
So, there actually was more of a point and more of a celebration to it than just being an endless march it gets characterized as. Plus Planetside has the ability to pit up to around 300+ players against one another in an active combat format, something only one other game has come close to doing, one game has surpassed only by giving up any ability to be active in combat for the sake of server stability, and only one that's upcoming that will come close to being similar.
Hell, Planetside even has that whole 'what's going on in one battle directly affects the other and even other zones' thing pretty damn good.
GA for all extensive purposes is an arena shooter game with a 'persistent' world laid over it, which isn't persistent so much as it puts more gusto into the celebration to cover over the resets, isolated instances, etc.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I think you're mistaken here Deivos. From what I understand you can be conducting a base raid, which will be split into multiple hexes (or instances). So, as an example, if the group in hex 1 disables the shields, it could allow the group in hex 2 to enter the control tower. I know I've read this somewhere on their site, though not using those exact terms... I'll see if I can find the link later on. Really gotta get back to work.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
-Glen Cook
From the way it sounds i wouldnt consider it a MMO.
1- There is a no payment option that still allows you to play with people, this reminds me alot of say Phantasy Star in a sense, if you dont pay you can still play with each other and do the same thing and if you do, you had more people but still had limited interaction with them, you saw them at the hub and if ya didnt run anything with them it didnt matter either, you could straight ignore the mand never run with them at all.
2- While they speak of 60 person battles(which when you first hear gets ya excited) then it goes into that they to are also instanced and have some sort of odd connection with each other with how well you do in the others. Yet you dont have Direct contact with each other. i cant say we finnished up our area and then send on over to another one.
I Think the Main thing when someone says its a MMO is a persistent world that we can interact in and arnt cut up or limited, or if we are its so such a large degree it doesnt matter. I mean Planetside had a limit of people in a area, but it was freaking huge.
Its actually really hard to describe my point. I guess the Major part of a MMO is the first M and thats massively, without the massive feeling you feel like your playing any other game with some sort of random hub.
The Massive helps make a community be it bad or good and feel like your trying to achiev some goal or compete with others in some form. And those people outside of the area you may have competed you will run into again at some point for they are working in the same world you are. In a MMO now adays its trying to keep some kind of balance of them, something you can do as a small party and something you can do as a massive party.
Also flow has alot to do with it, i dont want to feel iv just been transported to area B which looks a little different. Which is in a sort of game thats completely instance based, it has a lack of flow as i said early i can just walk around and a fight spurs up, no the fight is already set in stone and can only be X people.
As i said the point is hard to explain but i thought id atleast give a little insight into my thought.
I definitely agree with what you're saying. I definitely do. But I do have a question too. It's not really that solid or anything, but it's a thought. What about regular "MMOs" that are considered what I just said. I made an arguement that someone wasn't able to respond to and left it go that, look at WoW. You can say that game is instanced in itself, not really "playing" with other people. Of course, you got the occasional raid on a major city or world boss or something, but you have instanced raids, instanced PvP (BGs, Arena, etc.) just like this game. You can kind of look at the "major city" as a "virtual chat room". That's excluding the PvE of leveling and all, mostly talking about end-game. A lot of MMOs have taken this route too, which makes myself at least wonder why this game can't be considered an "MMO" since it's pretty much just like the others.
Just a thought for criticism, offering a bit of insight into mine.
I do understand what you mean with flow too. I will agree with you definitely there on that fact.
I think you're mistaken here Deivos. From what I understand you can be conducting a base raid, which will be split into multiple hexes (or instances). So, as an example, if the group in hex 1 disables the shields, it could allow the group in hex 2 to enter the control tower. I know I've read this somewhere on their site, though not using those exact terms... I'll see if I can find the link later on. Really gotta get back to work.
...Ye do realize that point doesn't actually affect anything I said in any way?
"Namely in that it would have been easier to say GA does the same thing Planetside does, in that it eventually resets, but there's a lot more hub-ub about the results." Is what I said, I never mentioned the impact what one group of 10 v 10 can do to another 10 v 10 group during an AvA (which is about the only place you'll see that kind of thing happening, mind you). However, that impact is still limited to that joint play session and is wiped clean post match/celebration, which is the point I was commenting on.
EDIT: To put it in clearer terms, GA is persistent, yes, but no more so than Planetside, and in many ways it's only barely building on what Planetside was capable of by integrating the ranking and celebratory effects directly into the game rather than just through a web portal.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
...Ye do realize that point doesn't actually affect anything I said in any way?
"Namely in that it would have been easier to say GA does the same thing Planetside does, in that it eventually resets, but there's a lot more hub-ub about the results." Is what I said, I never mentioned the impact what one group of 10 v 10 can do to another 10 v 10 group during an AvA (which is about the only place you'll see that kind of thing happening, mind you). However, that impact is still limited to that joint play session and is wiped clean post match/celebration, which is the point I was commenting on.
EDIT: To put it in clearer terms, GA is persistent, yes, but no more so than Planetside, and in many ways it's only barely building on what Planetside was capable of by integrating the ranking and celebratory effects directly into the game rather than just through a web portal.
Gotcha. My misunderstanding. I thought you were hung up more on what you had said earlier...
'what's going on in one battle directly affects the other and even other zones'
I was just trying to say that this does happen in AvA, though I'm not sure how long-lasting the effects are.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
-Glen Cook
I do like Planetside's persistant world with massive battles. However, Global Agenda had some good things about it to. The game reminds me of TF2 with the balance, healing, tanks absorbing damage, and defense buliding.
It will be interesting to see how they expand upon it and how AvA works though (since I never tried that). It will be a good stop in waiting for Planetside 2 because in it's current state is a blast.
From the way it sounds i wouldnt consider it a MMO.
1- There is a no payment option that still allows you to play with people, this reminds me alot of say Phantasy Star in a sense, if you dont pay you can still play with each other and do the same thing and if you do, you had more people but still had limited interaction with them, you saw them at the hub and if ya didnt run anything with them it didnt matter either, you could straight ignore the mand never run with them at all.
2- While they speak of 60 person battles(which when you first hear gets ya excited) then it goes into that they to are also instanced and have some sort of odd connection with each other with how well you do in the others. Yet you dont have Direct contact with each other. i cant say we finnished up our area and then send on over to another one.
I Think the Main thing when someone says its a MMO is a persistent world that we can interact in and arnt cut up or limited, or if we are its so such a large degree it doesnt matter. I mean Planetside had a limit of people in a area, but it was freaking huge.
Its actually really hard to describe my point. I guess the Major part of a MMO is the first M and thats massively, without the massive feeling you feel like your playing any other game with some sort of random hub.
The Massive helps make a community be it bad or good and feel like your trying to achiev some goal or compete with others in some form. And those people outside of the area you may have competed you will run into again at some point for they are working in the same world you are. In a MMO now adays its trying to keep some kind of balance of them, something you can do as a small party and something you can do as a massive party.
Also flow has alot to do with it, i dont want to feel iv just been transported to area B which looks a little different. Which is in a sort of game thats completely instance based, it has a lack of flow as i said early i can just walk around and a fight spurs up, no the fight is already set in stone and can only be X people.
As i said the point is hard to explain but i thought id atleast give a little insight into my thought.
I definitely agree with what you're saying. I definitely do. But I do have a question too. It's not really that solid or anything, but it's a thought. What about regular "MMOs" that are considered what I just said. I made an arguement that someone wasn't able to respond to and left it go that, look at WoW. You can say that game is instanced in itself, not really "playing" with other people. Of course, you got the occasional raid on a major city or world boss or something, but you have instanced raids, instanced PvP (BGs, Arena, etc.) just like this game. You can kind of look at the "major city" as a "virtual chat room". That's excluding the PvE of leveling and all, mostly talking about end-game. A lot of MMOs have taken this route too, which makes myself at least wonder why this game can't be considered an "MMO" since it's pretty much just like the others.
Just a thought for criticism, offering a bit of insight into mine.
I do understand what you mean with flow too. I will agree with you definitely there on that fact.
Yeah i follow your thought, even when typing mine that was sort of the difficulty in pulling together a full thought here cause i had wow in the back of mind.
But using wow as a good basis as the Typical MMO standard il go from there, from a arguement standpoint its much easier to claim that GA isnt a MMO and argue against it.
But with your claim you somewhat clip the rest of wow and i think thats one of the Major things. Yes after a certain point in wow it is exactly as you describe, infact right now that most likely how i play with it right now when im maxed. I just go in Dal, hit the AH when i need pots, talk in trade(if i need to) get on a certain time and raid.
But while that may be what i do, i know at a single moment i can just go fly around to a certain place, on top of this the raids i do, they have a actually place in the world, its not just BAM welcome to area B. As i sorta said in my last post its the Flow, I can walk outside Dalaran go fly over to Icecrown Citadel and go, "thats ICC" and its there, it has a place in the world and i know where said place is, even when i go in with a set amount of people the world is still there and it has a place there. GA would lack this, you somewhat said so yourself but i want to make a point using my own words as its slightly different, GA way of playing would be like your in Orgrimmar with the AH and the only way out is to run a Group dungeon using he dungeon finder, or just could arena. At this point using it a little differently but if you ask me a more accurate also. You have no sense of world which is a major part of a MMO.
Also i think the term Massively is the true defining term of the genera, and this is where the gamebreaker is in this train of thought. And i would even go so far to say that you can ignore any other point i make if you simply look at this one part. The Key is massive on some sort of interacting scale, but on top of that it just doesnt have to be only massive, however it has to offer it somewhere that matter(not just a lobby or for wow in org, you have to be doing something)
Using wow as a example, you can think of 5 mans and things of that nature not so much as the end game so i wouldnt count it , they come down to the thing ya do whe nnot many are on or you dont plan to be doing anything with alot of people(which then brings the arguement of why are you playing but thats a different time). However from 5's you have 10's and 25's and used to have 40's. I doubt many would call 10 massive, however in a RPG 10 is somewhat large if ya think about it and 25 is even bigger and 40 even larger then that. But on the same note that is for a RPG and part of the Massive tage is relative to what it plans on doing. And that is part of where the issue is, for a FPS the Massive tag line is a much bigger number due to past games, if you look at COD or Battlefield they already carry large numbers, even TF2 carry larger numbers. But you can go even a step farther and look at planetside and see the number even larger.
So in short
1- Flow matters alot
2- Knowing that the thing you are doing has a place in the world you are playing and can go to said place without being instance since the world is the world
3- Massively in the MMO title is relative to what you are doing and is prob the most cared about part of the whole tag line, what exactly makes it massive? And how many people does it take to be massive with the specific genera( i would argue a FPS requires more)
See right now i would best describe the current system as a RTS campaign(im sure someone has played Dawn of War) Where you fight over territorys and each one is a battle that you must win or loose and while this goes on others are going and taking others. But if you go to Land A you cant in any way run over to land B still its over with, however winning Land A can provide a bonus to future fights.